Vadim Korolev: “Tu-214 and MS-21 do not compete. We have to deliver 600 civil aircraft."December 11, 2023
The head of Tupolev about the modernization of KAZ for 90 billion and where to look for 2.5 thousand workers
In a maximum of three years, KAZ should begin building the Tu-214 on the principle of an assembly line, so the new modernization of the plant, which started in November, is being carried out according to an accelerated scheme. But when will the modernization that started in 2016 finally end? Which native of Kazan did the UAC appoint as curator of Tupolev? Why is there still no promised money from the National Welfare Fund, but only loans? How did the story about Aeroflot's comments on the appearance of the Tu-214 turn out? How are your relations with your fellow competitors from Yakovlev? Managing Director of Tupolev Vadim Korolev told BUSINESS Online about this in his first interview with the media.
By the beginning of the 2010s, the giant Tupolev was lying on its side. None of the new aircraft it proposed went into civilian transportation, including the already flying Tu-334 and Tu-204SM. The Tu-204 was discontinued, the production site in Ulyanovsk went to Ilyushin, and the Tu-214 was declared too expensive and therefore suitable only for special aviation. Tupolev was no longer considered as a manufacturer of civil aircraft - they relied on the Superjet and MS-21. In the military segment, the company completed a couple of Tu-160 from existing parts and maintained a fleet of strategic and tactical bombers. There was hope for the Tu-330 military transport project, but it also remained unclaimed.
Everything changed in 2015. The Russian leadership decided to resume construction of the Tu-160 - to modernize the Tu-160M, as well as to bring all existing vehicles to this level. In 2016, the Tu-22M3M project, which had only been discussed before, was launched. They began to talk about the possible appearance of new military modifications of the Tu-214 - patrol and electronic warfare aircraft. The project of a promising long-range aviation complex was taking on more and more realistic shape. In 2016, modernization for military purposes of the Kazan aircraft plant, a branch of Tupolev (KAZ), began.
Intrigue also returned in the civilian area. The first hopes arose in connection with the appointment of Tatarstan President Rustam Minnikhanov as chairman of the board of directors of Tupolev in 2021. Previously, he, like his predecessor as head of the republic, Mintimer Shaimiev, more than once expressed bewilderment at the fact that Tupolevs and domestic aircraft were generally left out from civil aviation.
By that time, Tupolev was becoming increasingly attached to Kazan, which was already the company’s main production base. In 2020, it became known that KAZ was preparing for the fullest scope of aircraft testing. There was also talk about moving the company to the capital of the Republic of Tatarstan. Republican leaders have been talking about special rights to participate in the affairs of Tu for a long time - both veiledly and quite openly. In the Republic of Tatarstan they recalled that in the 90s, when everything was collapsing, the region did a lot to save KAZ. Sometimes they say that this is self-PR by the Tatarstan authorities, but the facts prove the opposite, and the BUSINESS Online correspondent heard grateful statements addressed to the Republic of Tatarstan from old-timers of the Tupolev headquarters.
In the spring of 2022, after the cessation of supplies of foreign aircraft to Russia, Minnikhanov had the chance to put his plans into action. The Russian government responded positively to his proposal to resume production of the Tu-214 - after a 15-year break. The plans of Kazan and Tupolev were not accepted by everyone, but the visit to KAZ in June of this year by Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin put an end to the “debate”. He made it clear that the revival of the Tu-214 is not a whim of a single company or republic, but an urgent necessity. The thesis was supported by a promise to allocate 41.8 billion rubles from the National Welfare Fund and 42 billion rubles borrowed for the program. However, the “struggle of ideas” continues, albeit in a more veiled form. But, be that as it may, a month ago a new, now civilian, modernization of KAZ was launched. We are also talking about creating the next generation Tu-214.
In October, Tupolev turned 101 years old. Last year, a monument to Andrei Tupolev was unveiled in the park next to the OKB building. In October, Tupolev turned 101 years old.
The task of solving these problems is led by Vadim Korolev . He was appointed managing director of Tupolev in May 2021, becoming the fifth head of the company in 10 years. This rate of change of leaders also says a lot about the former (we hope) state of the “Tupols”.
And let us remind you that in October Tupolev turned 101 years old.
Vadim Korolev: “We will get a new plant with completely different capabilities compared to the current ones”
When will the reconstruction of KAZ be completed and why is there still no money from the National Welfare Fund?
— Vadim Vladimirovich, the first modernization of the Kazan aircraft plant, a branch of Tupolev (KAZ), had not yet been completed when the second one began, for the construction of the Tu-214, — on November 9, new workshops were laid. Which of these programs is larger?
— The modernization of the defense-industrial program has been a long one - it has been ongoing since 2016, so its scale may not be so visible, but in general they are comparable. Having completed both, we will get a new plant with completely different capabilities compared to the current ones. The program of reconstruction and re-equipment for the Tu-214, of course, is ambitious in terms of time - 2–2.5, in the end - 3 years, otherwise it will be problematic to attain the specified production rate on time.
— When will the ongoing modernization be completed? This was planned to be done in 2020.
“The goal is to ensure construction readiness this year, but one facility will probably be completed by 2024.” The deadlines are determined, among other things, by the structure of the work itself. At the initial stage, we decided to prioritize the reconstruction of existing areas, and then the construction of new ones. Meanwhile, this is an existing production facility, you can’t close it, so all these years the contractors have been transferring space to us in fragments, moving more slowly than they could.
Korolev Vadim Vladimirovich was born on October 25, 1969.
In 1992, he graduated from the Kharkov Higher Military Aviation Engineering Red Banner School with a degree in aircraft and power plants. Candidate of Economic Sciences.
In 2012, he graduated from the Higher School of Business of the State University of Management with a degree in corporate governance and corporate finance.
Before joining Tupolev, he held various positions in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
Since 2015 - Deputy General Director of Tupolev.
Since 2016 - Deputy General Director, Director of the Tu-160 program.
Since April 2021 - First Deputy General Director for Program Management.
Since June 23, 2021 - Managing Director.
— What kind of workshops are to be built for the Tu-214?
— The first is machining: more than 100 machining centers, which will cover almost the entire range of parts in this category for the Tu-214. The second is a unit-assembly plant; we will attach it to the huge final assembly workshop, which is being built today. We will get a complex with a production line similar to an assembly line. This principle was implemented in Irkutsk for the assembly of the MS-21, in Ulyanovsk for the Il-76MD-90A and in Lukhovitsy for the Il-114-300. Due to the tight deadlines, we are starting to build according to an accelerated scheme provided for by the regulatory framework and agreed upon at the government level.
— As far as I understand, the final assembly shop in question was intended for other machines...
— Yes, we changed its purpose - it is completely dedicated to the Tu-214 program.
— It has been announced that 41.8 billion rubles will be allocated for it from the National Welfare Fund (NWF). Has the money started coming in?
— Now, at the first stage, financing comes from loans.
— There will be no money from the National Welfare Fund?
- It will come. We are committed to not slowing down the pace of work, therefore, due to the time it takes to organize the receipt of funds from the National Welfare Fund, the initial stage of financing is being done with loans. Then they will be paid with money from the National Welfare Fund. Let me remind you that in June, at a meeting with Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin, two stages of financing were discussed - allocation of funds from the National Welfare Fund and a bond issue.
— We were talking about loans of 42 billion. The result is almost 84 billion...
— Two programs have been combined: to release 10 Tu-214s per year from 2025, and 20 Tu-214s per year from 2027. In total, this is more than 90 billion.
— There is a feeling that the post of second first deputy of the UAC, to which Konstantin Timofeev was appointed, was introduced primarily because of the transformation of KAZ...
— I can’t comment on this assumption. Konstantin Petrovich was entrusted with the building block of the UAC, issues of strategic development of the corporation. And yes, he is the curator of Tupolev - this is logical given the fact that the new deputy general director is a native of Tatarstan and, as I am convinced, he is known in the republic.
“And, what is fundamentally important, he is an aviation enthusiast and flies himself.”
— I was amazed by this story. Once Rustam Nurgalievich (Minnikhanov - President of the Republic of Tatarstan - editor's note) asked him something about the Tu-214, and he replied that he did not know, and then, to find out, he was trained for this type at the Ulyanovsk University of Civil Aviation and received a pilot's certificate.
“It’s not easy to accelerate production due to KAZ’s throughput: previously it produced an average of one and a half Tu-214 per year, but now the task is to grow by an order of magnitude”.
What do airlines want and is there cooperation on the Tu-214?
— It is already clear that there are difficulties with the implementation of the forecast delivery plan for Tu-214...
— We are working hard, but there are delays. Firstly, it is not easy to accelerate due to the capacity of KAZ: previously it produced on average one and a half Tu-214s per year, but now the task is to grow by an order of magnitude. Secondly, the scheme for the provision of resources for scaling production can be called unique, so the formation of the corresponding rules took more time than initially expected. This affects the timing of technical re-equipment - both for us and, as far as I understand, for our partners. Now the necessary measures have been worked out, the money has flowed in.
— Which vehicles will you deliver in 2024?
— The first deliveries involve the Tu-214 for Aeroflot and in a special version.
— The contract with Aeroflot is for how many aircraft?
- 11 firm orders - the total intent in the interests of the group - is 40 aircraft, the deal was concluded with the leasing company Aviacapital-Service. Stage-by-stage delivery with the most comprehensive development program rules for the Russian aviation industry until 2030. Today we signed a contract for 11, we receive the advances, start production, deliver, and then do the next ones. We received an advance payment for the first five aircraft, started purchasing metal and producing parts with our partners.
— Aeroflot issued 99 comments regarding what needs to be changed in the passenger cabin. Will they be taken into account?
— Actually, there were no comments - just a normal work process. Aeroflot, taking into account its experience, made additional wishes for the airliner. Some of them will be funded by us, and others can be funded at the customer’s expense. The interior is consistent. The overall technical appearance of the cars for Aeroflot has also been determined. The approach is flexible, since the Tu-214 has good modernization potential. For the the Yakutia airline only a letter of intent for 10 aircraft was signed, but we have already agreed on the requirements for the future contract, so as not to waste time later.
— Did the UVT Aero company put forward any demands?
— No, there were only non-labor-intensive discussions that were agreed upon on the fly.
— How many Tu-214s are in production and at what stage are they? Is there something being assembled?
— One aircraft is in the final assembly shop. For others, work is at the stage of aggregate assembly, panel assembly. I note that such work has been launched for 4–5 aircraft.
— Has cooperation been established for the construction of the Tu-214?
— Contracts were concluded with almost all partners even before orders were received from the carriers; the entire first tranche from the airlines was given to our partners. We didn’t leave a penny for ourselves: we will spend it on our own needs from the second tranche. The work has been organized.
— Do you need to replace a lot of imports?
- No. Most of the components did not require development from scratch, just minor modifications were needed. But there are also some elements in the process of development.
— Is there confidence that UEC will be able to supply engines regularly?
— Our partners confirm their supply in the required volumes.
— Will the engines for the new Tu-214 be different from the current ones?
- No. The PS-90A has been finalized, and our fellow engine engineers do not yet see the advisability of serious improvements. Yes, you can make it a little more economical, add a little thrust, but it’s not worth the required investment. If we carry out remotorization in the future, it will be with completely new engines.
About relations with Irkut, the change of chief designer of the Tu-214 and the move of Tupolev to Kazan
— In June, you announced firm contracts for 20 Tu-214s, letters of intent for 67 aircraft and applications from potential customers for 61 aircraft. Can you name these actual and potential customers?
— The firm contracts with commercial airlines are as mentioned above. As for the others, there are new aircraft for the special flight detachment “Russia” (SLO) and other special customers. A total of about 150 aircraft. We calculated the amount until 2033, because we have programs that are scheduled for implementation by this year, and by 2030 - there is to be a delivery of 115 aircraft.
— Are special aircraft counted for as part of new construction or are we talking only about commercial vehicles?
- They count as such.
— In September, the media reported that SLO would renew its fleet, including Tu-214...
— There is such a program, and for us it is an important part of the guaranteed demand for aircraft.
— According to known information, Red Wings Airlines should receive two previously flown Tu-214s. When will this happen?
— For one of the aircraft, its owner — Ilyushin Finance Corporation (IFC is part of the UAC — editor’s note) — is completing the procedure for restoring airworthiness and will soon transfer it to Red Wings. By the way, it was held in Kazan and was done with the participation of the KAPO Avia company. UAC will be using the second Tu-214 as a flying laboratory for testing updated components for some time. Then we plan to transfer the aircraft to a commercial operator.
— Who will maintain and repair the Tu-214 of the new series?
— Any company certified for this type. Today it is KAPO Avia, KAZ, Tupolev Tekhnik. But both Aeroflot and Ulyanovsk UZGA-Engineering want to receive the certificate. The operator will choose where to fly for maintenance.
— How will the administrative conflict with the fact that Tupolev produces civil aircraft while remaining in the UAC strategic and special aviation division be resolved? The declared scheme, in which the construction of aircraft is controlled by Tu, and marketing, sales and after-sales service is controlled by Yakovlev, raises questions. The topic is especially interesting due to the obvious rivalry between the Tu-214 and MS-21.
— “Conflict” is not the right word. Tupolev is the core of the UAC strategic aviation division, in this part we have super-ambitious tasks and super-responsibility, and at the same time we are involved in the Tu-214. Yakovlev, as the basis of the civil aviation division, has accumulated competencies in creating civil products and managing their life cycle, taking into account the requirements of commercial airlines. Today the carriers have about 160 Superjet. It took our colleagues a lot of time and resources to build an after-sales service system for them, but today it works. And by and large, it is logical to do things like the software platform not for each individual type, but for the whole line. And there is logic in the fact that today Andrei Ivanovich Boginsky, Deputy General Director of the UAC for Civil Aviation and General Director of Yakovlev, is leading the general direction of civil aviation. Moreover, the Tu-214 and MS-21 do not compete, but complement each other. Let me remind you that all of us together - both the UAC and the cooperation - will have to deliver 600 civil aircraft by 2030. There will be enough work and space in the market for everyone.
— According to our information, there has been a change in the chief designer of the Tu-214...
— Igor Kabatov is an experienced person, he spent many years working at Tupolev, he is our comrade. He had personal circumstances. Tupolev has a fairly strong design and production team. Continuity for us is not an empty word, so Igor’s watch will be continued by another worthy person from our team. The decisions have already been made.
— There were several times discussions about moving Tupolev to Kazan...
— Various ideas were expressed. I remember this story. When Rustam Nurgalievich was appointed chairman of the board of directors of Tupolev, he came to us for the first time. He had an hour and a half free, but in the end it took him 6 hours to show him everything: both the good and the bad. He walked up to the window of Alexei Andreevich’s [Tupolev] office (Andrei Nikolaevich did not have time to visit this office), and there was Yauza, the church. And then the bells rang. He says: “It’s a place of prayer, why leave here?”
About personnel policy, hope for KNITU-KAI, toilets, locker rooms, canteens
— KAZ needs workers and engineers. I can't imagine where you'll find them, especially the essential production workers...
- Not an easy task. We really have hope for Kazan's educational institutions, although it is clear that the market in the republic is very competitive: we, and KVZ, and the UZGA division, and Zelenodolsk shipbuilding, not to mention other industries - delivery, logistics, trade. We build relationships with universities. Like other UAC enterprises, we have a targeted training program - at KNITU-KAI, MAI, Bauman Moscow Higher Technical School, and Moscow Energy Institute. But today we are more interested in Kazan, because people are needed primarily at KAZ. This year, the KNITU-KAI department was opened at the plant. Yes, targets are a small part, but I’m sure they’re just the beginning. It’s hardly worth counting on a plan for the regions of Russia, but we are preparing such a program for a number of areas. In the next three years, we must additionally find at least 2.5 thousand production workers.
- How will you lure them in?
— First of all, salary. There are positive changes in this area. There is a directive from Rostec and UAC that the average salary at the plant is required to be 10% higher than the city average. It’s difficult to do this immediately; we’ll go step by step. I see the remuneration of certain categories of workers as clearly unfair, we will level it out, even in some cases.
We intend to attract workers with housing. We are working with the State Housing Fund of Tatarstan, there is a quota in the Salavat Kuper area. I agree, it’s not a very convenient place, but you have to start somewhere. To date, 10 families have entered the rental housing program - the company compensates 50 percent. Mortgage lending programs have appeared, which were previously only available in Moscow and Zhukovsky: we compensate the worker for half the interest rate, but the person has to undertake to work with us for at least a certain period of time. Requirements are strict: if the worker quits early, he has to return the money to the company that was paid to him, and we have already done this a couple of times. But everything is fair, which is why there is a queue for these programs.
We are doing landscaping. It is necessary for workers to stop feeling like they are in a permanent construction site. People need simple things - renovated toilets, locker rooms, a good canteen. By the way, over the year we have greatly improved the quality of food - we have found good contractors.
The personnel problem was discussed at a recent meeting of the Tupolev board of directors. A working group has been formed to solve this problem. Now we are writing a program for attracting and retaining personnel, by the end of the year we will roll it out at the level of Rustam Nurgalievich, and we will start working.
— Will Tupolev be a partner of KNRTU-KAI in the program of advanced engineering schools?
— At the same board of directors we received approval to participate in the NSP. In fact, we have a non-property contribution to co-financing the program: these are all the costs of the target audience, department, practice and other assistance that we can provide to the institute.
About the next generation of Tu-214, the Tu-204SM program and the fate of the Tu-334
— UAC General Director Yuri Slyusar announced that a proposal is being formed to create the next generation Tu-214. What is meant with that?
- We have such a proposal. The first direction is the creation of an aircraft with a two-member crew. It should be tested in 2026. But let’s also keep aircraft with two pilots and a flight engineer: the military and special services require a minimum of three-member crew... The second direction is the creation of a short version like the Tu-204-300. It may turn out to be an effective aircraft for long-haul flights like Moscow - Vladivostok... And the third direction is a cargo aircraft. We are launching this on our own initiative - we want so that when the time comes, we will have something to show. The transport aircraft is potentially in great demand, for example, we have an application from one airline that would take 10 airplanes right now.
- Tupolev has already created an aircraft with a two-member crew - the Tu-204SM. To put it simply, is it possible to take and transfer this cabin to the Tu-214?
— The Tu-204SM received a type certificate 13 years ago, it was a breakthrough then, but today that complex of on-board equipment is outdated. Let me remind you that back then they decided to do a “moonshoot” with a super good product - they started the MS-21 program, so a lot - about 80 - of the Tupolev employees involved in SM moved to Irkut (today renamed to Yakovlev - editor 's note). As a result, it turned out that the control system for general aircraft equipment, which made it possible to implement the two-crew principle on the SM, was further developed in the MS-21, and today we, in fact, take it and modify it for ourselves.
— What will happen to the two Tu-204SM in storage?
— They belong to the Ulyanovsk Aviation Plant. There is an interested party who is ready to buy them and restore them for use.
— At one time, KAZ had high hopes that it would be entrusted with the construction of the military transport Tu-330. Topic closed?
- Today, yes. We are focused on fulfilling strategic, special and civil aviation missions.
— Several years ago they spoke quite officially about military modifications of the Tu-214...
“The airplane has such a future.”
— Also, information has repeatedly surfaced in the press that a contract is about to be concluded with Tupolev for the modernization of 30 Tu-22M3s - to the Tu-22M3M standard...
— So far we are talking about several aircraft, but we understand how and in what time frame to modernize the existing fleet when setting the appropriate task.
— There is still a mature Tu-334 at KAZ. What will happen to him?
— In concept, the Tu-334 is an excellent machine, but back then it was not brought to production. I am one of the few who flew on it as a business passenger, including about 15 years ago, when we demonstrated it at the Kazan airport to the Tatarstan airline team. They took their chief pilot and senior flight engineer with them to Zhukovsky and gave him control. It gave a very good impression... We will definitely keep the aircraft sitting at the factory, we will not let it go for scrap.
https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/616520