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69 posters
Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
VARGR198- Posts : 674
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PapaDragon
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Arrow wrote:Rybat claims that Ukraine still has a lot of potential to be mobilized
Good
It's important to be thorough
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Pavi
Right now logistic chain is relatively short for russians even though form of the front favors ukrainians due to fact that they are able to move troops faster in the inner circle of the front. Therefore, it is better to deal ukrainian army in Donbas without extending the frontline much further.
Somehow I think, that NATO would like this kind of Big Arrow movement, which would allow to force Russia in guerrilla war as they are experienced themselves in Afganistan and Irak. Russians have not taken the bait, I guess...
That's an interesting point. But it just seems like the Kiev regime will never completely exhaust itself. It has been a year of this strategy already. They are already throwing 50 year olds into the fight now while the next batch of younger conscripts off the street are training in Germany. Are we gonna go through another year of this ? Russia can afford it. Thats not the problem.
It seems to me that attacking Kiev would be a better strategy. Just overwhelm it and remove the govt.
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I asked a question of a guy on youtube that was a Leopard crewman who had served on several variants. My question was how long would it take to train crew to a proficiency where they could operate in a coordinated formation. He said at least 1 year from scratch. So minus the 5 weeks it takes to learn how to drive the thing decently, that is like another 47 weeks more then what they are planning to train these guys. Seriously why not be merciful and replace the armor with plywood.
Judging by the last big weapons shipment to Ukraine. The truth was somewhere in the middle. The weapons shipments always arrive sooner and are a bit more useful than someone like Brian Berletic says they will be. Brian is smart and does great work. And in the big picture he's right.
The Anglo axis are lying scum. They most likely have been training conscripts on these tanks for 3-6 months already. And who knows, maybe they have one Nato soldier with each piece to run them. That is clearly what they did with the M70 artillery pieces and other things.
Russia shouldn't be too dismissive of these weapons shipments. Because there's nothing true about what is going on. They are always just a nuisance but they cost time and lives for Russia which is unacceptable.
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- Post n°5
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
billybatts91 Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:33 am
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- Post n°6
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
billybatts91 Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:39 am
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- Post n°7
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
billybatts91 Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:08 am
Looks familiar...
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- Post n°8
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
billybatts91 Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:43 am
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- Post n°9
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
billybatts91 Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:03 am
"Russian reinforcements massing in the Donbass for the new offensive (80-90% likely)
Russia is preparing an army of 200,000 soldiers for the new offensive
This new offensive will likely focus on the Donbass and pushing back the Ukrainians from there
Goal is to capture the whole of the Donetsk oblast
No Russian offensive groups in the north
Russian offensive could possibly start shortly after February 15th
No massing of forces in the south currently (Kherson or Zaporozhye)"
Russia is preparing an army of 200,000 soldiers for the new offensive
This new offensive will likely focus on the Donbass and pushing back the Ukrainians from there
Goal is to capture the whole of the Donetsk oblast
No Russian offensive groups in the north
Russian offensive could possibly start shortly after February 15th
No massing of forces in the south currently (Kherson or Zaporozhye)"
Last edited by billybatts91 on Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post mnztr Today at 12:41 am
I asked a question of a guy on youtube that was a Leopard crewman who had served on several variants. My question was how long would it take to train crew to a proficiency where they could operate in a coordinated formation. He said at least 1 year from scratch. So minus the 5 weeks it takes to learn how to drive the thing decently, that is like another 47 weeks more then what they are planning to train these guys. Seriously why not be merciful and replace the armor with plywood.
Well, it is some mythology either.
Standard training for an L2A4 crew carried in Leopard Training Center takes 9 weeks. NINE.
It is carried on as a standard procedure since 2007, in Świętoszów.
For example, a tank driver driving license requires 135h of driving to be fulfilled before passing the final exam. That includes both in a sim and live.
The case with Ukropanzertruppen is, that the program is to be halved to 5 weeks.
Considering that most of the trained tankers are already toasted, it will be a challenge.
So expect the same results that we have watched multiple times already. When armored vehicles were tucked in the mood, river banks, crashed into each other, or run over the team they have only delivered t the position.
Edit : I forgot to add, that in all of the cases, this training is made with folks who already have been tankers for a while. The only new job to teach is a loader, but that needs more physical training rather than conceptual.
I asked a question of a guy on youtube that was a Leopard crewman who had served on several variants. My question was how long would it take to train crew to a proficiency where they could operate in a coordinated formation. He said at least 1 year from scratch. So minus the 5 weeks it takes to learn how to drive the thing decently, that is like another 47 weeks more then what they are planning to train these guys. Seriously why not be merciful and replace the armor with plywood.
Well, it is some mythology either.
Standard training for an L2A4 crew carried in Leopard Training Center takes 9 weeks. NINE.
It is carried on as a standard procedure since 2007, in Świętoszów.
For example, a tank driver driving license requires 135h of driving to be fulfilled before passing the final exam. That includes both in a sim and live.
The case with Ukropanzertruppen is, that the program is to be halved to 5 weeks.
Considering that most of the trained tankers are already toasted, it will be a challenge.
So expect the same results that we have watched multiple times already. When armored vehicles were tucked in the mood, river banks, crashed into each other, or run over the team they have only delivered t the position.
Edit : I forgot to add, that in all of the cases, this training is made with folks who already have been tankers for a while. The only new job to teach is a loader, but that needs more physical training rather than conceptual.
Last edited by ALAMO on Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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I've been wondering, since shooting down this drone is considered an act of aggression, perhaps Russia can use more indirect ways to take it down. I'm thinking of sending cheaper drones to patrol the same area at the same attitude and same flight path, in the event of an "accidental collision" then its definitely not intentional on Russia's part
Perhaps now that Wagner will be under US sanction and treated like terrorists they could launch a drone with an igla attached.
Shifting off topic stuff.
moved here. https://www.russiadefence.net/t8897-nazism-discussion-inc-the-holocaustAlso tone down the personal insults... If you can't act like adults I will treat you like children.
Last edited by GarryB on Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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- Post n°13
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
billybatts91 Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:05 am
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Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
billybatts91 Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:11 am
Nice...
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Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2652
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- Post n°15
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
Rodion_Romanovic Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:06 pm
Well, so that means that those unfinished fuselages of
An-72 are also gone for good.
Anyway, the plant was never properly modernised and probably the only thing of use were the hangars.
If Kharkov should return to Russia (and not being in a north Korea like status) after the war, a new plant for aircraft repair and spare part production can be built there.
P.S.concening the training of ukrianian pilots I am curious if Russia should openly declare that they are going to train military forces for the IRA (irish republican army) and for a Scottish independence army
An-72 are also gone for good.
Anyway, the plant was never properly modernised and probably the only thing of use were the hangars.
If Kharkov should return to Russia (and not being in a north Korea like status) after the war, a new plant for aircraft repair and spare part production can be built there.
P.S.concening the training of ukrianian pilots I am curious if Russia should openly declare that they are going to train military forces for the IRA (irish republican army) and for a Scottish independence army
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- Post n°16
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
famschopman Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:49 pm
No need. Just improve and strengthen air defense capabilities both in material and operation. The little air defense left in Ukraine is still a sufficient deterrent for Russian aircraft; that also works in the opposite way.
Make sure there is no abundance of having enough layered coverage by multiple radars, systems; long, mid and short range. Introduce remote controlled (mobile) launcher units so you can operate multiple defense sites by a single person. Allows you to have much more vehicles on the ground improving coverage and redundancy while keeping your operators safe; how troubling would it be for any opponent if a remote controlled Tor/Buk/Pantsir is regularly changing position without people on site operating the vehicles.
On the other hand, situations where an operational Tor system gets hit by an Excalibur while being surveilled by a drone should not happen. The drone should have been detected and or destroyed, and the same for incoming shells especially if you are not saturating the system.
The West relies on air dominance. Counter this, and then you remove the threat for many.
Make sure there is no abundance of having enough layered coverage by multiple radars, systems; long, mid and short range. Introduce remote controlled (mobile) launcher units so you can operate multiple defense sites by a single person. Allows you to have much more vehicles on the ground improving coverage and redundancy while keeping your operators safe; how troubling would it be for any opponent if a remote controlled Tor/Buk/Pantsir is regularly changing position without people on site operating the vehicles.
On the other hand, situations where an operational Tor system gets hit by an Excalibur while being surveilled by a drone should not happen. The drone should have been detected and or destroyed, and the same for incoming shells especially if you are not saturating the system.
The West relies on air dominance. Counter this, and then you remove the threat for many.
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The factory in Kharkov modified the Tu-141 drones.
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Hole- Posts : 11115
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Countries and their national animals
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Krasna Gora is on the brink of being liberated.
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Artemovsk is practically cut off.
Wonder how much UkroSPAM was left there for canning
Wonder how much UkroSPAM was left there for canning
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- Post n°21
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
flamming_python Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:27 pm
The factory in Kharkov modified the Tu-141 drones.
Begs the question of why it wasn't leveled earlier
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ALAMO- Posts : 7470
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Death by thousand cuts 
By the way, not sure if you have noticed that info.
Kommersant cited the numbers concerning Russian tank production. They calculated at least 850 pcs a year. As Kommersant is hardly a patriotic newspaper
and the data were taken from the peace time stats, do the math.
By the way, not sure if you have noticed that info.
Kommersant cited the numbers concerning Russian tank production. They calculated at least 850 pcs a year. As Kommersant is hardly a patriotic newspaper
and the data were taken from the peace time stats, do the math. GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, GunshipDemocracy, littlerabbit, Hole, lancelot and like this post
franco- Posts : 7047
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ALAMO Today at 8:33 am
Kommersant cited the numbers concerning Russian tank production. They calculated at least 850 pcs a year. As Kommersant is hardly a patriotic newspaper Laughing and the data were taken from the peace time stats, do the math.
Do you have a link on this? Russians haven't produced 850 tanks per year for decades. I think 300 or so was max.
Kommersant cited the numbers concerning Russian tank production. They calculated at least 850 pcs a year. As Kommersant is hardly a patriotic newspaper Laughing and the data were taken from the peace time stats, do the math.
Do you have a link on this? Russians haven't produced 850 tanks per year for decades. I think 300 or so was max.
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- Post n°24
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38
Rodion_Romanovic Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:09 pm
Probably that number also includes refurbishment of old tanks.
Anyway I read somewhere that Uralvagonzavod produces more tanks annually than the rest of the world combined.
Anyway I read somewhere that Uralvagonzavod produces more tanks annually than the rest of the world combined.
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A bunch of "Western experts" giving their thoughts on how things will progress next. Interesting take away for myself was
"Philip O'Brien: Russia has focused on maneuverable units
Ukraine still has nothing to resist the Russian onslaught - despite the ongoing Western military assistance. As Italian military expert Thomas Teiner said in an interview with the German edition of Welt , there are currently 80 combat brigades in Ukraine compared to 27 at the beginning of the special operation. However, all these brigades have so far failed to integrate the promised Western weapons.
“Ukraine needs a long time to integrate all the new weapons that have been promised, from artillery systems and infantry fighting vehicles to armored personnel carriers and main battle tanks,” says military expert Phillip O'Brien from the University of St. Andrews in Scotland.
O'Brien notes that the Russian command learned from the failures in the first phase of the special operation. Then the emphasis was placed on large-scale operations in which the infantry played the main role. This, in turn, required the maintenance of large military depots. Now the emphasis is on the use of small, maneuverable units.
Well-trained assault forces operate in the most difficult directions - Artemovsky (Bakhmutsky) and Ugledarsky. Although O'Brien notes that the Armed Forces of Ukraine have also changed and improved their military tactics. So the battles in the coming months after the start of the Russian offensive, according to the expert, will be extremely bloody."
NOTE: 80 brigades sounds about right with all the reserve and territorial brigades formed. However all are understrength, poorly equipped and cadre weak.
FULL ARTICLE: https://svpressa-ru.translate.goog/war21/article/361595/?utm_source=warfiles.ru&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en
"Philip O'Brien: Russia has focused on maneuverable units
Ukraine still has nothing to resist the Russian onslaught - despite the ongoing Western military assistance. As Italian military expert Thomas Teiner said in an interview with the German edition of Welt , there are currently 80 combat brigades in Ukraine compared to 27 at the beginning of the special operation. However, all these brigades have so far failed to integrate the promised Western weapons.
“Ukraine needs a long time to integrate all the new weapons that have been promised, from artillery systems and infantry fighting vehicles to armored personnel carriers and main battle tanks,” says military expert Phillip O'Brien from the University of St. Andrews in Scotland.
O'Brien notes that the Russian command learned from the failures in the first phase of the special operation. Then the emphasis was placed on large-scale operations in which the infantry played the main role. This, in turn, required the maintenance of large military depots. Now the emphasis is on the use of small, maneuverable units.
Well-trained assault forces operate in the most difficult directions - Artemovsky (Bakhmutsky) and Ugledarsky. Although O'Brien notes that the Armed Forces of Ukraine have also changed and improved their military tactics. So the battles in the coming months after the start of the Russian offensive, according to the expert, will be extremely bloody."
NOTE: 80 brigades sounds about right with all the reserve and territorial brigades formed. However all are understrength, poorly equipped and cadre weak.
FULL ARTICLE: https://svpressa-ru.translate.goog/war21/article/361595/?utm_source=warfiles.ru&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en
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