Netherlands Defence News

http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/08/12/dutch-military-intervention-iraq-possible/

Sources around the Cabinet tell De Telegraaf that The Netherlands is keeping the option to send military aid with America to Iraq. For now, the sources say that this is not likely as there has not been a request.

Coalition parties are keeping all options open in the international struggle against ISIS at the source, including military action. Other forms of aid such as logistical support, proposed by the Cabinet, to the Americans, Brits and French to stop the spread of ISIS.

According to De Telegraaf, MPs say that this kind of action is all possible, “everything is negotiable”, said MP for the PvdA Michiel Servaes. The VVD is also reportedly supportive of the possible move.

The CDA is critical of Foreign Affairs Minister Timmermans, who will not say that the mass murder performed by ISIS on minorities is ‘genocide’. CDA MP Pieter Omtzigt believes that the categorization of ISIS’ actions in Iraq as specific genocide will be the only way to get the UN Security Council into movement.

The CDA is joined by the PVV, SGP and CU in their plea for the Cabinet to go further in the fight against the terrorist organization.

The SGP believes that The Netherlands should send its F-16′s to Iraq. The VVD does not believe that this is not yet applicable.

http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/08/15/dutch-kurds-feared-headed-iraq/

Kurdish organizations fear a rise in the number of Dutch Kurds traveling to Iraq to fight against jihadist insurgents there. This makes the number of Dutch nationals fighting against each other for different allegiances greater, the Algemeen Dagblad reports.

These Dutch Kurds traveling to Iraq to fight voluntarily will not be criminally prosecuted in The Netherlands, according to the Public Prosecution Authority (OM). ‘Polder-jihadists’, on the other hand, Dutch people traveling abroad to join terrorist plots, can be prosecuted.

“If you see what is happening in Iraq, you can’t just sit still”, says Zana Jabbari, president of the Kurdish Student Council in The Netherlands. Jabbari understands and predicts more and more Dutch Kurds will now travel to the region to join the Peshmerga army.

‘Peshmerga’ translates to ‘those who confront death’. It is an army fighting for independence of Kurdistan. Kurds in Iraq are suffering under the growth of terrorist organization IS, who is killing ethnic and religious groups in the area.

Dutch people with interests lying in the conflict region are found not only to be fighting for the side of IS, then, but also Kurds in the Peshmerga army, and not only in Iraq, but also in Syria, according to Egid Korkmaz of the Federation of Kurds in The Netherlands. In the two regions, the Kurds are fighting for their Kurdish territory. The Algemeen Dagblad writes that the exact numbers of Dutch fighters in the region are unclear.

To make it even more certain that Dutch nationals will confront each other on the battle-field, the AD writes that polder-jihadists not only fight for IS in Syria, but also for the radical group Jabhat al-Nusra.

“We have not seen this before”, Peter Knoope of the INternational Center for Counter-Terrorism in The Hague tells the AD. He finds it “bizarre” and “sad” that Dutch people come face to face with each other at opposite sides of the struggle in different places overseas.

“What plays out abroad, has an effect here as well”, Knoope says. The AD writes that conflicts fought abroad develop into tensions in The Netherlands has its place in history as well, just as it may be happening now. The Kurdish PKK was held responsible for a series of attacks on a Turkish-Islamic foundation in The Hague in 2012.

For Korkmaz of the Federation of Kurds in The Netherlands, fighting each other in Iraq is not the right step. “I can understand that some pick up weapons, but we are pleading for the enforcement of international humanitarian action from The Netherlands.” According to Korkmaz, this is the only way to prevent the departure of Dutch Kurds.

The Netherlands will not send heavy weapons or ground troops to Iraq’s Kurdish fighters. In their fight against IS, the Kurdish troops will at most receive bulletproof vests or other light military material from The Netherlands, De Volkskrant reports.

According to the paper, the Cabinet will come with an announcement about this later this week. The majority of Parliament is behind this stance for the Dutch government, sources in The Hague tell the paper.

“I wouldn’t know which heavy weapons The Netherlands could supply, because we have already sold a heap of stuff”, says Jean Debie, president of the military labor union VBM.

“To my knowledge, there is no weapons cache where we have a whole stock of hand weapons or munition, that would be suitable for the Kurds” Major General Kees Homan from Clingendael institute says.

Specialists say that the weapons currently available to the Dutch to give to the Kurds would not be applicable. Heavy artillery such as howitzers and vehicles such as the CV90 require at least six months of training before they can be properly used. This is the reason that the British sent only older Soviet-era weapons to the Kurds until last week, because they are already familiar with these.

De Volkskrant writes that the Kurds, and their Peshmerga army seem the only salvation left for Iraq and the struggle against IS. France, Italy and the Czech Republic are already sent weapons, and Great-Britain is doing so since Monday.

The Netherlands’ possible armament of the Kurds has been under discussion since last Thursday. The main issue is what is available, and what could actually be useful to the fighter there. “Bullet-proof vests, night vision binoculars, that kind of stuff we do have”, says union president Debie. Transport planes are also possible. On monday, relief goods in the vein of blankets, food and water, were sent to the Kurdish capital Arbil from The Netherlands.

Foreign Affairs minister Timmermans is now looking at further options. The Cabinet has no official plans yet for military involvement. Defense specialist Homan believes that The Netherlands should not fall behind, however, “if you look at how other countries undertake action.”

Governing party VVD believes the time for waiting is done. “The Netherlands must wait no longer, but actively offer military aid”, MP Mark Verheijen says. According to De Volkskrant, Verheijen believes that The Netherlands has enough weapons and munition to share.

The PvdA has been for the plan to arm the Kurds since last week. This does pertain to non-deadly military material such as bullet-proof vests, says MP Michiel Servaes. The paper writes that opposition parties SP, PVV, CDA and SGP are also pleading to send weapons.

According to De Volkskrant, the chance that Dutch soldiers will appear on the frontline of the struggle is nil. Defense specialist Homan says “nobody is waiting for a repeat of a long-term adventure, like the previous war in Iraq or Afghanistan.”



http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/08/19/dutch-troops-weapons-iraq/

Well, at least this will keep Dutch weapons out of ISIS hands! - We all know how "great" the west is at supplying weapons to ISIS fighters! (Aka, not at all. The weapons always seem to be "taken" by ISIS.....)

The Dutch government will transport weapons and munition from eastern European countries to northern Iraq where they will be handed over to the Kurds, defence minister Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert said on Tuesday.

The weapons and munition are being sent to assist the Kurdish fighters in their battle with the Islamic State and include morters and rocket grenades, the minister told parliament.

Last Sunday, the Netherlands sent a transport plane carrying thousands of military helmets and bullet-proof vests to the town of Irbil in northern Iraq. Humanitarian help such as food parcels has also been sent.

No point

Hennis said there is no point in sending more weapons to Iraq. 'There are 100,000 weapons on the way to the Kurds,' she told parliament. 'That is more than enough.'

According to the minister, what is now more important is that the help from Europe is properly coordinated.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/09/dutch_government_to_transport.php

If anything, the weapons will be piled up, and will later be stolen by IS...

Mike E wrote:If anything, the weapons will be piled up, and will later be stolen by IS...

They won't be stolen since they label them for "KURDS" and will send them to their CIA warlords over there to give them to US ... sry i mean IS.

Haha, those "Iraqi jihadists" are going to have a fun time using both their standard American equipment, err, "captured" American equipment, and their Dutch equipment...

http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/09/24/netherlands-send-f-16s-iraq-isis-fight/

NETHERLANDS TO SEND F-16S TO IRAQ IN ISIS FIGHT

The Cabinet wants to send F-16 fighter planes to the Middle East to help in the fight against Islamic State (ISIS).

There is a lot of support in the Second Chamber for the use of the devices in Iraq, NRC reports.

It is unlikely that the F-16’s will be deployed in Syria. There the United States just started air strikes against the terrorist group.

An extra cabinet meeting will be held this afternoon to discuss a so-called Article 100 letter. With this the Second Chamber will be officially informed about the military contribution to the international coalition led by the United States. The Cabinet may perform military action without the consent of the Second Chamber, but as a rule never does so.

The Netherlands contributed F-16’s in Northern Afghanistan. This mission lasted twelve years and will end this summer. There were rumors a few days ago that the Netherlands wanted to use F-16’s in the fight against ISIS.

The terrorist organization has parts of Iraq and Syria in their hands and has proclaimed a caliphate in the occupied territories.

they talked about buying about 4 reapers ever since 2007, but...here we are now and they still dont have them. Thales running trails with them mentioned "problems" with autonomous control of them by the Dutch Millitary.

i dont think the purchase would go trough anyway, the dutch Millitary is still under-going rigorous budget cuts and program that will not be finished untill 2017 before the options become open again to purchase new hardware. if anything the Dutch millitary will reactivate its Leo2A6 tanks again in limited numbers and transfer them as fire support to armoured infantry bataljons that would require a lot of convincing to the dutch parliament just to use them again.

expensive toys like the Reapers are the last thing on the Millitary's mind i believe.

The drones from US are worth nothing. Germany bought several Global Hawk drones which export version for EU countries is "Euro Hawk" and they have only problems since 2011 and they did not fly a single time due problems with electronics, treachery and lobbyism nothing else.

Werewolf wrote:The drones from US are worth nothing. Germany bought several Global Hawk drones which export version for EU countries is "Euro Hawk" and they have only problems since 2011 and they did not fly a single time due problems with electronics, treachery and lobbyism nothing else.

i agree, i think germany is confronted with an bad export version like Dutch Thales is not impressed by the Reaper trails. its not the first time the Dutch Millitary ran into issue's with U.S made weapons. a year ago an detachment of the Dutch Airforce and Thales techical crew could get their hands on the EU-version of the F-35.

Thales took a look at the F-35's parts and software, and found inconsistency's of hardware configuration coupled to its computer software. its an rumour, but i heard some Airforce technical crew say the things Thales found resembled HF communication parts simmilar to the Reaper/Predator systems for remote digital acces.

what did set off alarm bells with some airforce technicians and Thales that when Thales requested Lockeed Martin would allow the Dutch Detachment acces an American/isreali F-35 model for refference purposes. it was denied, and followed within 3 hours that the EU-F35 would be recalled 24 hours before the Dutch Millitary was supposed to transfer it back.

Thales technicians where shocked to say at least, and Dutch AIrforce Technicians think it might something between as "innocent" as remote information acces, or as bad as to where its an "kill-switch" to just shutdown the F-35 remotely.

GREAT!!!!

Seems strange for a NATO country to buy big transport helicopters when they are pulling out of Afghanistan... would be like buying new fangled tanks in 1919...

There are US F-15s coming to The Netherlands!!!

GarryB wrote:Seems strange for a NATO country to buy big transport helicopters when they are pulling out of Afghanistan... would be like buying new fangled tanks in 1919...

It is not strange because they are bought to replace older Chinooks and The Netherlands has a big role in the new NATO QRF and they need Chinooks for that.

Dutch Air Force Chief Slams US Army Helicopter Plan

The Netherlands: Yes to Patriot, No to MEADS


Making a big mistake MEADS is better

Germany and the Netherlands complete the integration of ground forces

The Netherlands and Germany are implementing joint plans for the development, improvement and integration of the organizational structure of their ground forces. These plans provide for the unification of some structures of the two armies, as well as the transfer of the main units and formations of the Royal Netherlands Army to the operational subordination of the Bundeswehr formations. Some of the organizational measures of this kind have already been completed, and the rest are being carried out right now.

United Corps

Germany and the Netherlands decided to unite some army structures back in 1991, and in 1993 a corresponding agreement appeared. In accordance with this document, one of the corps of the ground forces of the FRG was united with a similar unit of the Netherlands. The resulting formation was called the 1st German-Dutch Corps (1GNC).

The integration of the corps began with the unification of their headquarters into a single structure. Initially, several divisions of various kinds from the two countries were subordinate to this headquarters. Quite quickly, the 1GNC headquarters entered the general structures of NATO as one of the main command centers. In the future, the corps underwent various changes, received various formations into submission or lost them, etc.

At present, the 1st German-Dutch Corps is in fact only an administrative structure. Only the headquarters and support units are constantly present in its composition. There are no regular combat units and formations - they are planned to be attached to the corps as part of the deployment. The composition and number of formations will be determined in accordance with the plans drawn up and the situation that has arisen. The total number of 1GNC personnel now does not exceed 1 thousand people.

Over the three decades of its existence, 1GNC and its formations have repeatedly been involved in exercises and other events of various sizes. In addition, it is entrusted with various tasks of management and training in peacetime. Thus, the Corps Headquarters plays a leading role in organizing the NATO Rapid Reaction Force in Europe.

New stage

The next steps in the integration of the two armies were made in the middle of the last decade against the backdrop of a deteriorating military-political situation on the continent. The Netherlands and Germany decided to respond to the "Russian threat" by a new unification of their structures. The first agreements of this kind appeared in 2014, and real measures were taken at the same time. In the future, such processes continued.

This time, a different way of integrating the troops was proposed. The creation of joint corps or other formations is not envisaged. The two armies maintain the desired organizational structure and in peacetime continue to serve in a regular manner. At the same time, key units and formations of one army can be transferred to the operational subordination of the structures of another. First of all, it was planned to resubordinate the Dutch formations to the Bundeswehr.

Such integration began already in 2014. Then the 11th Airmobile Brigade of the Netherlands (11 Luchtmobiele Brigade) came under the command of the Rapid Reaction Division (Division Schnelle Kräfte) of Germany. At the same time, the brigade remained in its place in the Dutch city of Arnhem, but orders come from the German headquarters in Stadtallendorf.

In 2016 , the 43rd Mechanized Brigade of the Netherlands (43 Gemechaniseerde Brigade) came under the command of the German 1st Panzer Division (1. Panzerdivision). At the same time, the 414th tank battalion of the Bundeswehr was included in the brigade. The battalion underwent some restructuring and became "international" - now it has two German companies from Germany and one from the Netherlands.

In almost all cases, the Dutch formations were taken over by the Germans, but there was one exception. So, in 2018, the Flugabwehrraketengruppe 61 anti-aircraft missile regiment from the Bundeswehr was reassigned to the Royal Army Joint Air Defense Command (DGLC).

"Shared Vision of the Army"

Right now, the two countries are carrying out new activities to integrate large connections. They are carried out in accordance with the new Common Army Vision plan (“Common Army Vision”), adopted at the end of November last year. Some details of this document are already known, as well as the start of the implementation of the proposed measures.

According to foreign media reports, the Dutch 13th Light Brigade (13 Lichte Brigade) is now being transferred under the command of the German 10th Panzer Division (10. Panzerdivision). Connection integration will be completed by the end of April. In just a few weeks, the 13th Brigade will be able to resume full-fledged service, but under a different command.

New plans to transfer formations under the control of an ally have not yet been reported. Perhaps such measures are only being worked out, and they cannot yet be disclosed. In addition, it cannot be ruled out that the processes of "exchange" of units and formations are close to completion due to the specifics of the organizational and staff structure of the two armies.

Three Brigades

The processes and prospects for the integration of the two armies to a large extent depend on the state of the ground forces of the Netherlands. The fact is that they are not distinguished by a large number or a complex organizational and staff structure. Therefore, even the complete "unification" of the Royal Army and the Bundeswehr comes down to just a few basic steps.

Currently, the ground forces of the Netherlands have only three "linear" brigades, equipped with infantry, armored vehicles, artillery, etc. There is also a combined German-Dutch Corps. They are supplemented by a commando corps, a joint air defense command and several auxiliary and training formations.

The main forces of the Royal Army in the form of the 11th airmobile, 13th light and 43rd mechanized brigades should come under the operational control of the Bundeswehr. Two brigades are already integrated with the German army, and the third is going through this process right now. In addition, limited measures have been taken to unite the air defense of the two countries.

Obviously, there are virtually no opportunities for further integration of the ground forces of Germany and the Netherlands. All the main formations are already united in organizational terms, and similar measures in relation to auxiliary structures, apparently, do not make sense.

Desired result

In general, the integration of the two armies is aimed at increasing the overall defense capability of the countries. Such results were planned to be obtained due to the high number of united formations and groups, as well as with the help of their unified control. At the same time, both allied countries expected to receive their benefits.

First of all, such cooperation is interesting for the Netherlands. The royal army is not distinguished by high numbers and fighting efficiency, and therefore it needs foreign help. So, no more than 23-25 ​​thousand people are in the service. Until recently, there were only 18 Leopard 2 main tanks, over 400 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, approx. 70 main types of artillery systems, etc.

With all this, quantitative and qualitative indicators have deteriorated in recent years. In 2022, the Netherlands transferred a significant part of its weapons to Ukraine, and deliveries should continue this year. The consequences of new episodes of assistance are clear and predictable. As a result, to ensure its own security and counter the notorious Russian threat, the Dutch government resorts to various types of international cooperation.

The German Bundeswehr also cannot boast of large numbers and high levels of combat readiness, and the latest arms shipments to Ukraine have worsened the situation. But in this case, in all respects, it surpasses the armed forces of the Netherlands. The integration of the two armies allows the German side to strengthen the existing formations and structures, as well as improve the overall defense performance.

Development of cooperation

Thus, Germany and the Netherlands are expanding and developing cooperation in the military sphere. There are and are being implemented several agreements of a military-technical nature, ensuring the re-equipment of the Royal Army. Various joint exercises are regularly held, both German-Dutch and larger ones within NATO. In addition, for several years there have been active work on the integration of the two armies.

To date, the bulk of the combat formations of the ground forces of the Netherlands have come under the control of the Bundeswehr, and the last events of this kind will be completed in the near future. Accordingly, the two countries will soon have the opportunity to fully evaluate the results of such cooperation. What the conclusions will be is not yet known.

https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/212909-germanija-i-niderlandy-zavershajut-integraciju-suhoputnyh-vojsk.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

No problem integrating with the 10th Armoured Div. They speak rather good English and informal we can speak German to them. Although the Germans are a bit more formal with ranks) the cooperation with them is good especially when they know you and we know our counterparts.

Much better than the formerly proposed cooperation with the French, they spoke no English or a sort of ''Allo Allo'' English, all orders came in French only. Nobody of our dep could speak or read French. What a horror show and the mentality.... France above all/uber alles....terrible