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Let's look at the facts. We have seen a BTR-82A. We have seen several T-72B3s. Combine that with the guys who are there unofficially, meaning they were sent there purely on voluntary basis without official orders from the MOD. I think we can safely conclude that there are indeed our guys over there but it's done in such a way that it's extremely difficult to point fingers. Every country with a modern military probably has some sort of a Black Ops. force. The guys who are ready to go there, knowing their country will deny their existance if anything happens to them, deserve nothing but respect and a medal for Bravery (literally). This is the so-called hybrid warfare the West is talking about. Do I condemn it? Not at all, someone here already said that the Ukrainians made their beds with their bullshit and warmongering rhetoric. Did anyone honestly believe the Russians would close their borders and let the Western Ukrainians cause a genocide in Donbass? Even the Ukrainians weren't that stupid but their pride was high at that time so they decided to go with it. Fast forward a year and a half and this is the result you get that we're seeing today. Kerry and Merkel keep saying that everything depends on Putin's action but the exact opposite is true. If Poroshenko is a total retard and decides to restart hostilities, I expect the Russians will send in more "privatus" soldiers. The war game can be played but no matter how you look at it, the only winning move for Poroshenko is not to play or the remainings of his "army" will be obliterated completely.
+23
miketheterrible
Tsavo Lion
tdobai
Regular
sweartome123
Dforce
George1
collegeboy16
Radium
AirCargo
magnumcromagnon
franco
kvs
GarryB
PapaDragon
sepheronx
flamming_python
Vann7
Neutrality
max steel
KoTeMoRe
Werewolf
Cyberspec
27 posters
Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine
Neutrality- Posts : 888
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Join date : 2015-05-02
Vann7- Posts : 5385
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Join date : 2012-05-16
Neutrality wrote:Let's look at the facts. We have seen a BTR-82A. We have seen several T-72B3s. Combine that with the guys who are there unofficially, meaning they were sent there purely on voluntary basis without official orders from the MOD. I think we can safely conclude that there are indeed our guys over there but it's done in such a way that it's extremely difficult to point fingers. Every country with a modern military probably has some sort of a Black Ops. force. The guys who are ready to go there, knowing their country will deny their existance if anything happens to them, deserve nothing but respect and a medal for Bravery (literally). This is the so-called hybrid warfare the West is talking about. Do I condemn it? Not at all, someone here already said that the Ukrainians made their beds with their bullshit and warmongering rhetoric. Did anyone honestly believe the Russians would close their borders and let the Western Ukrainians cause a genocide in Donbass? Even the Ukrainians weren't that stupid but their pride was high at that time so they decided to go with it. Fast forward a year and a half and this is the result you get that we're seeing today. Kerry and Merkel keep saying that everything depends on Putin's action but the exact opposite is true. If Poroshenko is a total retard and decides to restart hostilities, I expect the Russians will send in more "privatus" soldiers. The war game can be played but no matter how you look at it, the only winning move for Poroshenko is not to play or the remainings of his "army" will be obliterated completely.
Private soldiers and volunteers is pretty close to how Russia could be helping.. fighting a low level defensive war.. with logistics and small caliber weapons .. but i cannot imagine OSCE is lying when they say No Russian hardware is crossing the border. and they deployed in all border check points too.. about 300 OSCE monitors are in Donetsk and it will be impossible to hide a Russian Army and Russian transfer of tanks with so many spies.. The tanks in controversy used as the "ultimate proof" of Russian army invasion.. was ONE ..that was in possesion of the Ukie army..and Captured by Rebels. and this is not even deny by them.. the claim however is that they had the tank.. but had to abandon it.. because the tank was "destroyed".. but the tank was barely hit at all. and the so called "Experts" in tanks .were first saying Ukraine have no T-72 tanks.. and later changed the tone when they proved wrong.
In their limited world view ,it was unthinkable that NATO could be supplying Ukraine with soviet weapons and tanks and that NATO with the help of kiev could have the capabilities to upgrade and modernize them . You also have claims of BUks in rebels hands.. yet no evidence is provided. Other than Rumors and claims by Google search warriors and "Internet experts" not in the combat zone.
AirCargo- Posts : 97
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Join date : 2014-05-19
Location : Seattle, WA. United States
KoTeMoRe wrote:220 soldiers dead in a year of fighting? If I understand well, compared to NATO/UA estimates this means that at any given time there were less than 20 KIA per month, which taking a general ratio of 5% KIA accounts that each month about 1000 Russian "regulars" were involved. If we have a rotation of 60 days (worst estimate-should be lower) this means the Russians fvcked up Ukraine with 3 battalions. Techinically this seems feasible and falls in line with my own assumption.
Now 150 killed around Illovaisk? That's something I'd like to see evidence off. Especially since the Separatists* themselves lost less than 300 men.
220 KIA are for two battles only.
RBC identified five theses from Nemtsov's report:
1. At least 150 Russian soldiers were killed in August 2014 according to estimates from Nemtsov's sources during the battle of Ilovaisk. Relatives were given compensation of 2 million rubles a piece and were forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement about the soldiers' deaths.
2. About 70 Russian soldiers (including 17 paratroopers from Ivanovo) died in January-February 2015 near Debaltsevo.
Compensation was not given to their relatives as originally pledged. These soldiers were discharged from the army first and then passed off as volunteers.
3. About 53 billion rubles (about $1 billion) have been spent on the war in the southeast Ukraine in the first nine months, says Sergei Aleksashenko, who is director of macro-economic research for the Higher Economic School. He said 21 billion rubles ($412 million) were required to maintain 6,000 volunteers; 25 billion rubles ($490 million) to maintain 30,000 local "militia" or Russian-backed militants and 7 billion rubles ($136 million) for operation, servicing and repair of vehicles.
4. 80 billion rubles were spent by authorities in the Russian regions to support refugees from Donetsk and Lugansk regions since July 2014.
5. Russians have paid 2 trillion rubles ($39 billion) from their paychecks and 750 billion rubles ($14 billion) from their savings to cover the annexation of the Crimea. In connection with Western sanctions and the retaliatory produce embargo prices rose an additional 5.5%
The relatives of the soldiers were afraid to give their names. As Yashin told RFE/RL, the fact that Nemtsov himself was killed didn't inspire confidence in their ability to stay safe if they spoke out.
RBC.ru contacted the Defense Ministry, which categorically denied the claims in the report. RBC also contacted various groups that have traditionally worked on the issues of soldiers' rights such as the Soldiers' Mothers but they said Nemtsov and the others involved had not approached them.
The main explanation the report authors give for events is Putin's fall in ratings in 2012; he was able to move them from 29% to 74% by March 2015. Putin said in a new film, Crimea: Path to the Homeland that he personally took charge of the movements of Russian troops in Crimea.
RBC.ru asked several political analysts if they thought the report would have any effect. Valery Khomyakov, a former colleague of Nemtsov's said the purpose was not to break news with these reports but rather educate people with known facts. Another analyst Aleksandr Pozhalov said the purpose of such reports is to draw attention in the West and he did not see it having any reaction from the Kremlin.
AirCargo- Posts : 97
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Join date : 2014-05-19
Location : Seattle, WA. United States
Nemtsov Report in Russian
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4SOYKcoF01KbERJUm1HaTJiUWs/view?sle=true&pli=1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4SOYKcoF01KbERJUm1HaTJiUWs/view?sle=true&pli=1
sepheronx- Posts : 8547
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His report doesnt have much other than using media/twitter and other reportings.
As Russia Insider put it, public media info and twitter packed into a pdf.
Now the question is, is there actual proof?
As Russia Insider put it, public media info and twitter packed into a pdf.
Now the question is, is there actual proof?
AirCargo- Posts : 97
Points : 95
Join date : 2014-05-19
Location : Seattle, WA. United States
max steel wrote:Reuters is US outlet . They've been discredited many times earlier . those numbers are authentic or not is unknown..
Sorry that is incorrect Max. Reuters is an international news agency headquartered in Canary Wharf, London, England, United Kingdom and a division of Thomson Reuters founded in 1851. Reuters employs several thousand journalists. Reuters journalists use the Reuters Handbook of Journalism as a guide to maintain the values of integrity and freedom that Reuters values in journalism which is what their reputation for reliability, accuracy, speed and exclusivity relies on.
sepheronx- Posts : 8547
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Reuters isnt unbiased, and using their own handbook isnt an example of integrity. The witness of MH-17 is a good example where they edited a claim a witness had. And then they apparently lied about omega 3 research article as well.
max steel- Posts : 2930
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AirCargo wrote:max steel wrote:Reuters is US outlet . They've been discredited many times earlier . those numbers are authentic or not is unknown..
Sorry that is incorrect Max. Reuters is an international news agency headquartered in Canary Wharf, London, England, United Kingdom and a division of Thomson Reuters founded in 1851. Reuters employs several thousand journalists. Reuters journalists use the Reuters Handbook of Journalism as a guide to maintain the values of integrity and freedom that Reuters values in journalism which is what their reputation for reliability, accuracy, speed and exclusivity relies on.
Thats what they preach not what they do . You're still hovering in your propaganda machines. Rise above the BS .
max steel- Posts : 2930
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AirCargo wrote:max steel wrote:Reuters is US outlet . They've been discredited many times earlier . those numbers are authentic or not is unknown..
Sorry that is incorrect Max. Reuters is an international news agency headquartered in Canary Wharf, London, England, United Kingdom and a division of Thomson Reuters founded in 1851. Reuters employs several thousand journalists. Reuters journalists use the Reuters Handbook of Journalism as a guide to maintain the values of integrity and freedom that Reuters values in journalism which is what their reputation for reliability, accuracy, speed and exclusivity relies on.
Thats what they preach not what they do . You're still hovering in your propaganda machines. Rise above the BS .
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
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AirCargo wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:220 soldiers dead in a year of fighting? If I understand well, compared to NATO/UA estimates this means that at any given time there were less than 20 KIA per month, which taking a general ratio of 5% KIA accounts that each month about 1000 Russian "regulars" were involved. If we have a rotation of 60 days (worst estimate-should be lower) this means the Russians fvcked up Ukraine with 3 battalions. Techinically this seems feasible and falls in line with my own assumption.
Now 150 killed around Illovaisk? That's something I'd like to see evidence off. Especially since the Separatists* themselves lost less than 300 men.
220 KIA are for two battles only.
RBC identified five theses from Nemtsov's report:
1. At least 150 Russian soldiers were killed in August 2014 according to estimates from Nemtsov's sources during the battle of Ilovaisk. Relatives were given compensation of 2 million rubles a piece and were forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement about the soldiers' deaths.
2. About 70 Russian soldiers (including 17 paratroopers from Ivanovo) died in January-February 2015 near Debaltsevo.
Compensation was not given to their relatives as originally pledged. These soldiers were discharged from the army first and then passed off as volunteers.
3. About 53 billion rubles (about $1 billion) have been spent on the war in the southeast Ukraine in the first nine months, says Sergei Aleksashenko, who is director of macro-economic research for the Higher Economic School. He said 21 billion rubles ($412 million) were required to maintain 6,000 volunteers; 25 billion rubles ($490 million) to maintain 30,000 local "militia" or Russian-backed militants and 7 billion rubles ($136 million) for operation, servicing and repair of vehicles.
4. 80 billion rubles were spent by authorities in the Russian regions to support refugees from Donetsk and Lugansk regions since July 2014.
5. Russians have paid 2 trillion rubles ($39 billion) from their paychecks and 750 billion rubles ($14 billion) from their savings to cover the annexation of the Crimea. In connection with Western sanctions and the retaliatory produce embargo prices rose an additional 5.5%
The relatives of the soldiers were afraid to give their names. As Yashin told RFE/RL, the fact that Nemtsov himself was killed didn't inspire confidence in their ability to stay safe if they spoke out.
RBC.ru contacted the Defense Ministry, which categorically denied the claims in the report. RBC also contacted various groups that have traditionally worked on the issues of soldiers' rights such as the Soldiers' Mothers but they said Nemtsov and the others involved had not approached them.
The main explanation the report authors give for events is Putin's fall in ratings in 2012; he was able to move them from 29% to 74% by March 2015. Putin said in a new film, Crimea: Path to the Homeland that he personally took charge of the movements of Russian troops in Crimea.
RBC.ru asked several political analysts if they thought the report would have any effect. Valery Khomyakov, a former colleague of Nemtsov's said the purpose was not to break news with these reports but rather educate people with known facts. Another analyst Aleksandr Pozhalov said the purpose of such reports is to draw attention in the West and he did not see it having any reaction from the Kremlin.
That's simply impossible. In Illovaisk even the ukrainians were clear, they were routed and hadn't the chance to intercept anything. Bar three MT-LB's and showed 2 bodies and about 10 passports. You gotta be more consistent, the Reuters report talks about 3 mln RUB, this speaks about 2 mln. Estimates? Well a far more interesting estimate from a Russian newspaper put the death toll for illovaisk (through checking the memory walls) at 48 dead. I don't know who Nemtsov sources are, but this is clearly a case of guesstimation. Having a 100 KIA over a rather densely packed sector like D-sector Illovaisk is noticeable. Especially when the forces sent to push through were rather limited, 2000 at best. Once again, if we are speaking about casualties, 150 is rather good, KIA is impossible, that would make at least 400 wounded from the Russian side. Simply non sequitur.
And Illovaisk isn't a "battle" it is a multi-stage engagement that start in 6th of August to the 3rd of September. Russian shove comes the 22nd of August with two barrages just under Illovaisk, that cut two volunteer battalions from the regular forces.
Overall the strength of all sectors in Illovaisk wasn't exceeding 3 to 4000 Ukrops. And a good chunk of them got out. So yeah, doesn't make sense AT ALL.
sepheronx- Posts : 8547
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The problem is, it is Nemtsovs so called findings and no actual evidence was given. So it is purely people wanting to believe what a dead guy said. If evidence was given, then maybe. But some sources refused to talk? Yeah, that isnt evidence either. Also, why would people who obtained money and sign a disclosure not to talk about how their relative died, would talk openly about it? Especially when they know they will lose that money plus face some sort of punishment?
Whole thing stinks. It isnt so easy to hide a couple hundred dead troops. Porkyshenko wouls have shown and proven a lot more than 5 passports if this was the case. Actually, they would have shown a lot more evidence, especially on US end, rather than blurry sat photos and a soldiers on a btr from Georgian war.
Whole thing stinks. It isnt so easy to hide a couple hundred dead troops. Porkyshenko wouls have shown and proven a lot more than 5 passports if this was the case. Actually, they would have shown a lot more evidence, especially on US end, rather than blurry sat photos and a soldiers on a btr from Georgian war.
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
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sepheronx wrote:The problem is, it is Nemtsovs so called findings and no actual evidence was given. So it is purely people wanting to believe what a dead guy said. If evidence was given, then maybe. But some sources refused to talk? Yeah, that isnt evidence either. Also, why would people who obtained money and sign a disclosure not to talk about how their relative died, would talk openly about it? Especially when they know they will lose that money plus face some sort of punishment?
Whole thing stinks. It isnt so easy to hide a couple hundred dead troops. Porkyshenko wouls have shown and proven a lot more than 5 passports if this was the case. Actually, they would have shown a lot more evidence, especially on US end, rather than blurry sat photos and a soldiers on a btr from Georgian war.
I don't believe anything Nemtsov has stated, but you have to understand how the military works in these cases. It's shut up and move. However that doesn't make sense. Illovaisk a very fluid situation with element of surprize and huge human and material toll for Ukropia, results in more deaths, than Debaltsevo which was a far more messy affair, with sensible losses from day one. It simply doesn't compute.
Furthermore most of the sources from the non-existing Russian troops have been emphasizing the fact that what was more dangerous than Ukrops were the inexperienced units that were put together to fight in Debaltsevo. IE Red on Red. On twower we read that imaginary BTG goes to imaginary country and fucks up whole sector within the first contact. They lhave 20 casualties (KIA/WIA/MIA) most from Red on Red. this time because BTG's were overlapping.
As I said, 220 dead tops from June to May is plausible. 220 dead on those two engagements, laughable. Unless Russians have a real FF issue.
sepheronx- Posts : 8547
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RT on it:
PapaDragon- Posts : 13285
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AirCargo wrote:max steel wrote:Reuters is US outlet . They've been discredited many times earlier . those numbers are authentic or not is unknown..
Sorry that is incorrect Max. Reuters is an international news agency headquartered in Canary Wharf, London, England, United Kingdom and a division of Thomson Reuters founded in 1851. Reuters employs several thousand journalists. Reuters journalists use the Reuters Handbook of Journalism as a guide to maintain the values of integrity and freedom that Reuters values in journalism which is what their reputation for reliability, accuracy, speed and exclusivity relies on.
I was going to say something about that BS report you tried to peddle but then I saw this.^
Do you actually believe the crap that you just posted?
Are you telling me that you really think that this is even remotely connected to reality?
Reuters is FOR PROFIT business organization who work for monetary compensation. They are not religious, academic or humanitarian institution.
They do the work as ordered by their sponsors and get payed good money for it.
To think they they are even remotely interested in facts and truth is inexcusable idiocy of highest order.
To claim that they are in any way bound by any moral code or ethic criteria other than money and instructions they receive is stupidity beyond any comprehension or forgiveness.
.
.
.
Back to fantasy land of unicorns and rainbows with you AirCargo...
PapaDragon- Posts : 13285
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Also to add one more thing:
220 people will have families.
220 people will have friends.
220 people will have acquaintances.
220 people will have neighbors.
220 people will have social network contacts.
220 people is something that is impossible to hide in a country without population of India or larger.
You can convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 2 in this day and age.
You can convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 22 in this day and age.
You cannot in any way, shape or form convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 220 in this day and age.
Not happening, no way...
If 220 people did die over there, then they went there on their on accord and not on some super secret orders you could not say no to.
Yes, Russian Spec-Ops, specialists and advisors are active in Donbass (were and still are as we speak). Yes, North Wind is real.
To say nothing of the volunteers.
On the other hand, Russian regulars are not active in Donbass.
If they were we would all notice cruise missile strikes, long-range artillery, air strikes, saturation bombings, naval assaults, SRBMs and god knows what else days before first Russian conscript would even bother cross the border...
220 people will have families.
220 people will have friends.
220 people will have acquaintances.
220 people will have neighbors.
220 people will have social network contacts.
220 people is something that is impossible to hide in a country without population of India or larger.
You can convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 2 in this day and age.
You can convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 22 in this day and age.
You cannot in any way, shape or form convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 220 in this day and age.
Not happening, no way...
If 220 people did die over there, then they went there on their on accord and not on some super secret orders you could not say no to.
Yes, Russian Spec-Ops, specialists and advisors are active in Donbass (were and still are as we speak). Yes, North Wind is real.
To say nothing of the volunteers.
On the other hand, Russian regulars are not active in Donbass.
If they were we would all notice cruise missile strikes, long-range artillery, air strikes, saturation bombings, naval assaults, SRBMs and god knows what else days before first Russian conscript would even bother cross the border...
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
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Join date : 2015-04-21
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PapaDragon wrote:Also to add one more thing:
220 people will have families.
220 people will have friends.
220 people will have acquaintances.
220 people will have neighbors.
220 people will have social network contacts.
220 people is something that is impossible to hide in a country without population of India or larger.
You can convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 2 in this day and age.
You can convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 22 in this day and age.
You cannot in any way, shape or form convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 220 in this day and age.
Not happening, no way...
If 220 people did die over there, then they went there on their on accord and not on some super secret orders you could not say no to.
Yes, Russian Spec-Ops, specialists and advisors are active in Donbass (were and still are as we speak). Yes, North Wind is real.
To say nothing of the volunteers.
On the other hand, Russian regulars are not active in Donbass.
If they were we would all notice cruise missile strikes, long-range artillery, air strikes, saturation bombings, naval assaults, SRBMs and god knows what else days before first Russian conscript would even bother cross the border...
Well there is more to this war than meets the eye. There have been strange sightings (Hermes/Pantsir) debris found. Kornets with RFAF markings found. Brand new RFAF clothing for NAF. RFAF MRE for NAF etc.
sepheronx- Posts : 8547
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Equipment is one thing, actual people are another. Hermes debris? I doubt that unless they decided to give it to Novorussians to test it use (good way to test its performance). That said, the dead are the real question which is IMO BS, unless there is a leak admitting it, which therr has not been. And like dragon said, 220 dead is nearly impossible to hide. 4 dead contractors in Fallujia Iraq made a big sensation, This would be even bigger. So like I said, a PDF of known info all collaberated into one article. Heck, even bbc mentioned that. All other claims are unverified. And since it is coming from prominent criminals/opposition, peddling a dead guys work (trying to take advantage of it) that had a hard on for Putin and a Ukrainian model girlfriend who was there a this death (whom walked away scott free).
Whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Neutrality- Posts : 888
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That report by Nemtsov is laughable. Again, how the hell did he distinguish soldiers acting on MOD orders and volunteers? If we use this kind of retarded logic we can safely assume the French, Spainian and even US armies are officially fighting there as well because we've seen several officers going in as volunteers from said countries. This report will be passed off as legit due to Nemtsov's death, simple as that. No one is going to bother writing about the dubious details the report contains and how exactly he came to those numbers.
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
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Neutrality wrote:That report by Nemtsov is laughable. Again, how the hell did he distinguish soldiers acting on MOD orders and volunteers? If we use this kind of retarded logic we can safely assume the French, Spainian and even US armies are officially fighting there as well because we've seen several officers going in as volunteers from said countries. This report will be passed off as legit due to Nemtsov's death, simple as that. No one is going to bother writing about the dubious details the report contains and how exactly he came to those numbers.
There is nothing legit in Nemtsov's report. It's as easy as that.
sepheronx- Posts : 8547
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http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/05/nemtsov-report-short-guide.html
Love this.
Nemtsov Report—A short guide
By Eva Merkurieva
Translated from Russian by J.Hawk
1. The Dignity Revolution temporarily weakened Ukraine, and treacherous Putin pounced.
2. Crimea’s reunification with Russia meant that treacherous Putin’s approval rating skyrocketed.
3. Treacherous Putin is a TV star. It’s a catastrophe.
4. The Russian media mentioned the Right Sector more often than the United Russia party. And the Communist Party of Russia and the Liberal Democratic Party are complete losers. (Conclusion: Russian parties are nauseatingly boring—they don’t burn tires, don’t burn people, nothing to write about or to film!)
5. Treacherous Putin treacherously made the theme of the Great Patriotic War the most important one in his own system of moral values.
6. 2015 saw the treacherous introduction of a new tradition—the wearing of St. George’s Ribbons and the slogan “I remember, I take pride!”
7. The soulful Soviet holiday of May 9 treacherously became a Russian national holiday.
8. The honest new Ukrainian government is for some reason considered Banderite and fascist.
9. Russia is now busy doing the same thing it was doing in 1941-1945: fighting fascism. That’s treachery.
10. The new treacherous meaning of the St. George’s Ribbon: it is worn by the supporters of separating Crimea and Donbass from Ukraine and by the enemies of Banderites.
11. Makarevich was treacherously harassed for his concert in the lair womb of the liberators of Slavyansk. People befuddled by Kremlin propaganda think these defenders of democracy are actually murderers.
12. Russian media covers the Donbass conflict very treacherously. Journalists Steshin and Kots are quietly telling the Komsomolskaya Pravda readers that which central TV channels pass over in silence. LifeNews is behaving in a similarly treacherous fashion.
13. Solovyov has a house in Italy, yes.
14. (A quick retelling of the film “Crimea. The Path to the Motherland.” The treachery of Putin and the film crew is self-evident.)
15. Evidence of presence of regular Russian Army units on the Donbass: a compilation of SBU interrogations of Pskov, Ivanovo, Kostroma paratroopers, Kantemirovka tankers, Altay armored policemen, and also Buryats and DPR fighters. Unimpeachable proof from Vkontakte and Youtube.
16. They say that the volunteer-mercenary salaries increased to 240 thousand. So says a reliable source. An exact quote: “They say it’s more now! They say so!”
17. Kadyrov was not in Ukraine, but Kadyrov’s men were. It’s no accident there is an East Battalion. An unimpeachable photo of Putin with Kadyrov. They are both conspiratorially smiling.
18. Voentorg has been working, is working, and will be working. Although malevolent military analysts keep saying equipment is either captured or bought from the UAF.
19. The Malaysian Boeing was shot down by the separatists under Russian military control. Unimpeachable proof provided by the “F*****-up Torez” website.
20. The separatists blew the Volnavakha bus to bits with Grad rockets, even though everyone knows about the landmine. So what? We need to earn our grant money.
21. The mass graves are not evidence of punitive battalion atrocities, but of the separatists. OSCE thinks otherwise? So what? We need to earn our grant money.
22. Ukrainian refugees are only costing us money.
23. Crimea is only costing us money.
24. Crimea is the reason we don’t have prosciutto and Polish apples.
25. Crimean retirees are drawing their pensions at the expense of Russian retirees.
26. Crimean powerplants will be built at Russian expense.
27. If only Russia supported the Maidan, we’d be living in a different, free, and democratic country.
28. It’s all the fault of treacherous Putin.
Love this.
Neutrality- Posts : 888
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sepheronx wrote:http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/05/nemtsov-report-short-guide.html
Love this.
Stopped reading at:
6. 2015 saw the treacherous introduction of a new tradition—the wearing of St. George’s Ribbons and the slogan “I remember, I take pride!”
This report can't be legit, can it?
sepheronx- Posts : 8547
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It is a saterical piece poking at the so called Nemtsov proof.
Heck, since they love throwing accusations without proof around, maybe his so called close buddies had Nemtsov killed and had this document and hoped to cash in on his death. Wouldnt surprise me.
They started it with the accusations. so they are open to ones back at them.
Heck, since they love throwing accusations without proof around, maybe his so called close buddies had Nemtsov killed and had this document and hoped to cash in on his death. Wouldnt surprise me.
They started it with the accusations. so they are open to ones back at them.
Werewolf- Posts : 5915
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KoTeMoRe wrote:PapaDragon wrote:Also to add one more thing:
220 people will have families.
220 people will have friends.
220 people will have acquaintances.
220 people will have neighbors.
220 people will have social network contacts.
220 people is something that is impossible to hide in a country without population of India or larger.
You can convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 2 in this day and age.
You can convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 22 in this day and age.
You cannot in any way, shape or form convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 220 in this day and age.
Not happening, no way...
If 220 people did die over there, then they went there on their on accord and not on some super secret orders you could not say no to.
Yes, Russian Spec-Ops, specialists and advisors are active in Donbass (were and still are as we speak). Yes, North Wind is real.
To say nothing of the volunteers.
On the other hand, Russian regulars are not active in Donbass.
If they were we would all notice cruise missile strikes, long-range artillery, air strikes, saturation bombings, naval assaults, SRBMs and god knows what else days before first Russian conscript would even bother cross the border...
Well there is more to this war than meets the eye. There have been strange sightings (Hermes/Pantsir) debris found. Kornets with RFAF markings found. Brand new RFAF clothing for NAF. RFAF MRE for NAF etc.
Sure Hermes debris... that missile is just in test phase and there is not a single plattform currently available that can launch it unless you have helicopters there but that would be easily taped on footage since no other helicopters but Kamov can fire them.
KoTeMoRe- Posts : 4212
Points : 4227
Join date : 2015-04-21
Location : Krankhaus Central.
Werewolf wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:PapaDragon wrote:Also to add one more thing:
220 people will have families.
220 people will have friends.
220 people will have acquaintances.
220 people will have neighbors.
220 people will have social network contacts.
220 people is something that is impossible to hide in a country without population of India or larger.
You can convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 2 in this day and age.
You can convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 22 in this day and age.
You cannot in any way, shape or form convince/bribe/intimidate families and friends of 220 in this day and age.
Not happening, no way...
If 220 people did die over there, then they went there on their on accord and not on some super secret orders you could not say no to.
Yes, Russian Spec-Ops, specialists and advisors are active in Donbass (were and still are as we speak). Yes, North Wind is real.
To say nothing of the volunteers.
On the other hand, Russian regulars are not active in Donbass.
If they were we would all notice cruise missile strikes, long-range artillery, air strikes, saturation bombings, naval assaults, SRBMs and god knows what else days before first Russian conscript would even bother cross the border...
Well there is more to this war than meets the eye. There have been strange sightings (Hermes/Pantsir) debris found. Kornets with RFAF markings found. Brand new RFAF clothing for NAF. RFAF MRE for NAF etc.
Sure Hermes debris... that missile is just in test phase and there is not a single plattform currently available that can launch it unless you have helicopters there but that would be easily taped on footage since no other helicopters but Kamov can fire them.
It is really funny because I remember having said Hermes/Pantsir on the top of my head. The Missile remains were supposedly Pantsir. Nevermind the mistake carry on with your parallel reality.
GarryB- Posts : 39068
Points : 39564
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
It is really funny because I remember having said Hermes/Pantsir on the top of my head. The Missile remains were supposedly Pantsir. Nevermind the mistake carry on with your parallel reality.
The solid rocket boosters for Pantsir are indistinguishable from the rocket boosters on Tunguska... which is in Ukrainian service... and more importantly the boosters used on Tunguska and Pantsir are standard rocket boosters designed for sounding rockets that have been used for decades by artillery units to launch meterological instruments...
It is the Ukraine... the black market could supply any of the things you mentioned and more.
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