Type-055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

Awesome. This is real power. Russia will not build a single frigate 22350 laugh at this time

Still not amazed yet... producing something that looks OK is easy... that is what China has been doing for the last 30 years plus... the questions are... does it come with batteries, and will it continue to work after your 5 year old has played with it for ten minutes...

f course, the Chinese Navy is growing at such an amazing pace that only such a comment remains. The Russian one, however, tires one fregate with a displacement of 4000 tons for several years. Soon there will be two frigate 22350.
Here you can see the differences in the potential of these two countries perfectly. China will be another dominant power. Russia will be far behind them in every area. The expansion of the Chinese fleet is impressive. Russian navy is very weak and lowly modernizing. They don't even have a new destroyer with a displacement of 10,000 tons like 055. Of which there are already a few.

f course, the Chinese Navy is growing at such an amazing pace that only such a comment remains. The Russian one, however, tires one fregate with a displacement of 4000 tons for several years. Soon there will be two frigate 22350.
Here you can see the differences in the potential of these two countries perfectly. China will be another dominant power. Russia will be far behind them in every area. The expansion of the Chinese fleet is impressive. Russian navy is very weak and lowly modernizing. They don't even have a new destroyer with a displacement of 10,000 tons like 055. Of which there are already a few.

Your confidence is commendable and I wish them all the best... I honestly do... because I really don't see them as a threat to Russia... or New Zealand for that matter... like I see the US Navy as being... but don't you wonder how thoroughly they are testing these ships and their equipment?

I mean you can get things into production and service really quickly if you don't give a fuck about anything... when the original plan was to make a super everything plane that will replace all the different planes the west uses all in one package that everyone buys so it will be affordable and standardised so we can all save money by buying the same parts and just use one basic aircraft for everything then we will save enormous amounts of time and money... except the plane they developed is the most expensive military programme they have ever had... the space programme to go to the moon didn't cost 1.5 trillion dollars.

They used the same model as used on the C-17... spread production to low income high unemployment areas of the US where senators and congressmen with power in select committees that decide pentagon funding are sitting... it means all brand new factories with people who have never made aircraft before all spread haphazardly around the country so the logistics for building the thing are totally fucked up to start with... but now this is the wests primary fighter so it can't be cancelled... they need 3,500 of them... they find fault after fault... operating costs are about $70,000 US dollars an hour and climbing, they are building new aircraft even though the thousands of faults found with the existing type have not been fixed yet... it is a nightmare...

Don't get me started on the US Navy... the Ford Carrier can't carry fixed wing fighters of any kind because it has no way to get them airborne, the Zumwalt class destroyers each probably cost more than the three Chinese carriers they have built, and the less said about the LCS perhaps the better... they are now reverting to a design more like the Gorshkov BTW...

But I am sure the Chinese wont have any problems at all... what I suspect is that any problems they do have wont be publicly aired... they will just find themselves with large numbers of training vessels and a new design will be laid down.

A bit like children in a primary school with a computer and a printer... the teacher will tell them to write a story on the computer so they will type out a story and when they finish they will press print and bring you the page to read. If you find an error they will immediately rush away and correct it and print it out again and then you find their second error on the page and away they run to make the change and to print out the corrected story... and then a third error.... print.... and a fourth... print... they don't pay for ink and they don't pay for paper and honestly they really could not give a shit about the planet just yet because it doesn't occur to them that what they do is effecting the world.

Hopefully the Chinese Navy are just going to get lucky and everything will be fine.

To be clear you make it seem like they are developing their navy all on their own, but looking at their new helo and aircraft designs there is clearly influence if not paid for support from certain companies to allow them to get to where they are... and I am not being critical... they would be bloody stupid to not use their money to take advantage of the knowledge that is out there to their benefit... going it on your own means making mistakes others have already made... copying or hiring consultants avoids costly and time wasting mistakes.

China didn't lose the cold war and up until recently were not the target of western economic sanctions, so of course their ship building is booming and production is huge... of course they are growing rapidly... they are starting from nothing so any progress would be obvious and dramatic... the point will come however when all those ships will be overwhelming and they may not use them as efficiently or effectively as you clearly seem to think.

The US and French and even the UK didn't become countries that dominated the world because they are stupid... they are ruthless and barbarians... and China needs to be very careful and sensible in what it does...

Note for what ? That's just a biger Arleigh burke.

A Soviet or Russian ship that size would have about four times more air defence guns than this vessel... and the main gun looks a little small...

And the radars are very low. The mast is useless. They should have put a radar on its top for low level coverage against antiship missiles.

The front ciws take as much space as the 64 cells in front of him.

The decoy launchers are also not optimized to cover the ship. They mainly faces back sides.

There is plenty of space for simple ciws all over the ship which it lacks.

Rather the ship is to large for the main gun. Its a 130mm gun, same caliber as the gun on the Slavas and Sovremennys and larger then the american Mark 45 gun on the Tic and Arleigh Burkes. Its a destroyer in the 2020s, not a battleship.

In 2020 a 130mm gun is for frigates, not destroyers...

I think the idea was that the ship should be as stealtly as possible, minimizing equipment and systems on the deck. The number of ciws seems to follow the americans more then the Russian concept.

And we can compare air defence in Saudi Arabia and Syria to compare how those concepts work out...

The radars positions seems to be working for them, same hight since the Type 052C back in 2004. If it didnt they have had several opportunities to alter the design over the last decade.

Of course... if they are doing it this way it must be right...

Seriously? The only destroyer having larger gun then 130mm today is the Zumwalts, and they are supose to replace the US battleship for naval fire support. Not even Russias future Lider-class will have anything larger then a 130mm canon.

The development of the 152mm Coalition was a joint programme that included both the Army and the Navy...

The Russians clearly value having a gun on their vessels... they are flexible multipurpose weapons that can use a wide range of useful ammo types included guided munition and smart air burst rounds, with 130mm guns on their Frigates do you think they will just put 130mm guns on their destroyers and cruisers?

Especially when their upgraded 130mm guns are lighter and take up less space than their old 100mm naval guns, yet offer better range performance than their old 130mm guns...

How viable would it be for Russia to order five or so Type 055s with Russian missiles and radars?

Russia has been spending money upgrading their shipyards to prepare them for building larger ships... it would be pretty stupid and short sighted to then order from another country the ships they want...

No matter what country...

I would imagine it would be quite convenient to have about five "medium" destroyers that could be assigned to fleets that operate Atlant class vessels in order to secure Russian territorial waters.

It will be 10 years before they have the support vessels and local infrastructure ready for a lot of new larger ships and by then they should have such ships in production.

At 13K+ tons the new Russian destroyer models will likely be nuclear powered, and will likely be related to scaled up 20-24K ton cruisers they eventually make too.

How about we leave Russian Navy plans out of this thread about the Chinese Navy and just respect what they are managing to get done.

Obviously such ships would be quite inferior to the nuclear destroyers that will make up the Russian navy's ocean going battelgroups, but as interim vessels to be used with the Atlants they could be rather useful.

They would end up being unloved... corvettes and frigates including frigates that were cold war destroyers upgraded like Udaloy will all be conventionally powered and used near Russian waters or for shorter trips while bigger longer ranged destroyers and cruisers will likely be nuke powered and operate further away...

But this is

Russia didnt even want to use chinese diesel engines for thier smaller corvetts, so I doubt they will buy large vessels like destroyers.

They did buy some, but it was never going to be a long term solution. They had some problems too, but I am sure the Chinese will sort those problems out for domestic use. Of course they can make good diesel engines, but these copies of German engines are clearly not right yet and still need some refinement.

Didnt they talk about buying the Type 54 frigate from China a few years ago, that didnt happend iether.

If they do it will likely be as a threat to shipyards to buck up their ideas by suggesting there are alternative options...

The need for big ships is not that urgent however... certainly not for Russia and their plans.

The-thing-next-door wrote:The idea would be to use them to counter the japs and euros, thus negating the need for support vessels.

They would be used with the Atlants which are also non nuclear vessels.

I doubt they will have enough Liders for coastal patrol and "diplomacy" any time soon.

It is off topic, but if they need something that has long range capabilities and a decent number of VLS (while waiting for the larger nuclear cruiser) they can speed up the start of 22350M . It has the same size as Udaloy class.

There are at least 4 shipyards capable right now to build such ships: severnaya verf, baltic shipyard and admiralty shipyard in Saint Petersburg + Yantar in Kaliningrad.

It is just a matter of priorities. Probably they still want to first test the propulsion systems of the third baseline 22350, the first with domestic gas turbines, before passing to the biggest brother.


Probably the first one will be laid down only after the conpletion of the new boat house in Severnaya Verf...it would be good if they start at least to build baseline 22350 in other shipyards as well, in the meanwhile...

And no, buying ships from the Chineses, when they need the work for local shipyard would be absolutely counterproductive

And honestly, the more ships this size China has the better in my opinion... they are a country of 1.5 billion people... they should have more say in international affairs.