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Log inI think those 8 to 10 years can easily be prolonged.
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PLA Air Force General News Thread:
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Sukhoi37_Terminator- Posts : 22
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For what I know the JXX or XXJ are names applied by Western intelligence sources to describe a programme or programmes by the People's Republic of China to develop one or more new fourth- or fifth-generation fighter aircraft. (chengdu and Shenyang)
the USAF doubts that China will be able to develop the right skills to make a truly effective stealthy aircraft, much less a fifth generation fighter, especially as they have yet to settle on a realistic shaping for the aircraft.
It will take at least 10 years to see one of those things flying.
the USAF doubts that China will be able to develop the right skills to make a truly effective stealthy aircraft, much less a fifth generation fighter, especially as they have yet to settle on a realistic shaping for the aircraft.
It will take at least 10 years to see one of those things flying.
Admin- Posts : 2926
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China isn't even in the realm of developing a plane on par with Su-27. This J-XX will probably catch them up to that level. A true fifth generation for China is several decades away. PLAAF is about 35 years behind leading Russian technology.
milky_candy_sugar- Posts : 393
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Uhm,....isn't the Chengdu J-10 already a fifth generation?
Admin- Posts : 2926
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milky_candy_sugar wrote:Uhm,....isn't the Chengdu J-10 already a fifth generation?
More like 3.5
milky_candy_sugar- Posts : 393
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only 3.5?? Itr's like their best fighters or something O_o they are kinda late concerning military technologies
sepheronx- Posts : 8847
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milky_candy_sugar wrote:only 3.5?? Itr's like their best fighters or something O_o they are kinda late concerning military technologies
What do you expect? Western world put restrictions towards China in acquiring weaponry, and Russia sells monkeyed versions of their technology from the 80's and early 90s to the Chinese (which are acquiring them now). So China is behind in terms of development of technology. Just because they mass produce cheap knockoffs and or manufacture plastic goods, does not mean that they have a strong R&D sector. Only lately they did in terms of defense, but their researches and engineers need time and experience to produce newer stuff, as Russia and US is ahead of them in that area.
Also, J-10, as good as a jet it may be, is only 3.5 - 4 gen. It may have pretty LCD displays in the cockpit, but its computer is less capable then that of the SU-27 and it does not have anything new to it, that wasn't in something from the 70's to now.
Heck, the Vietnam's SU-30MKV is most likely far better then the J-10.
Hitman- Posts : 12
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Vladimir79 wrote:milky_candy_sugar wrote:Uhm,....isn't the Chengdu J-10 already a fifth generation?
More like 3.5
The J10 is regarded as an 4th generation aircraft, but for me it is nothing more than an F16 with chinese avionics. It`s inferior in many aspects to the Mig29, not even speaking about the Su27. If it took all this time for the chinese to match an american aircraft wich was created in the late 70s then I assume it will take at least 20 years to make an realistic 5th generation fighter. By that time we will not only have our PAK FA`s but also a considerable numbers of lightweight PAK FA`s.
Vladislav- Posts : 108
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China is still trying to develop a 4th generation fighter on their own taking another 8-10 years. They will not have anything like PAK FA for decades.
milky_candy_sugar- Posts : 393
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- Post n°35
New-type multi-functional fighters in training
milky_candy_sugar Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:02 pm
Recently, an aviation division under the North China Sea Fleet of the Navy of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army organized an all-function, all-element and all-weapon subject training for the new-type multi-functional fighters under complicated conditions. During the training of comprehensive strike and bombing on islands and reefs from other places, the new-type multi-functional fighters continuously live-fired such weapons as shells of fighter gun, air bombs and rockets for the first time, so as to improve the comprehensive strike capability of the troops in attacking objects on the ground, off shore and on the sea.
The new-type multi-functional fighter-bombers of the division debuted in the military parade to mark the 60th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic of China in last October. To fully tap the multi-functional attack capability of the fighter-bombers, the division has increased the proportion of training subjects involving practical use of weapons since early 2010.
Liu Weimin, commander of the division, told the reporters, “The comprehensive live fire of three kinds of airborne weapons is another innovation of training mode in line with the requirements of actual combat, symbolizing the all-round improvement of the comprehensive combat capability of the new-type multi-functional fighters.”
By Yuan Benliang, Yu Libin and Wang Songqi
http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2010-04/13/content_4179554.htm
The new-type multi-functional fighter-bombers of the division debuted in the military parade to mark the 60th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic of China in last October. To fully tap the multi-functional attack capability of the fighter-bombers, the division has increased the proportion of training subjects involving practical use of weapons since early 2010.
Liu Weimin, commander of the division, told the reporters, “The comprehensive live fire of three kinds of airborne weapons is another innovation of training mode in line with the requirements of actual combat, symbolizing the all-round improvement of the comprehensive combat capability of the new-type multi-functional fighters.”
By Yuan Benliang, Yu Libin and Wang Songqi
http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2010-04/13/content_4179554.htm
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Bombs, rockets, and shells... no smart weapons.
solo.13mmfmj- Posts : 114
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"Bombs, rockets, and shells... no smart weapons."
Do Chinese have any smart weapons?
Do Chinese have any smart weapons?
milky_candy_sugar- Posts : 393
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solo.13mmfmj wrote:"Bombs, rockets, and shells... no smart weapons."
Do Chinese have any smart weapons?
I don't think so. All they ever do is copy copy copy
Admin- Posts : 2926
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China to order more fighter engines
Zhuhai (PRC), November 16. (ITAR-TASS). China shows steady demand for Russian aircraft engines for fighters, and expresses its intention to continue their purchases, said at the Airshow "Eyrshou China 2010" Director of Foreign Economic Affairs of the Moscow Machine Building Production Enterprise "Salut" Igor Mulishkin.
"We now finish the execution of another contract to supply 122 engines to China. Through Rosoboronexport are negotiating the purchase of new batches of engines," - said Mulishkin. He clarified that we are talking about the AL-31F engines for Su-27 and Su-30 and AL-31FN engines to equip new Chinese fighter J-10.
According Mulishkina, the demand for these engines, the Chinese side does not weaken, but rather increased. "Cooperation with China, our company is constantly evolving. We are considering the installation of engines of increased power and resources in Chinese-made aircraft," - he added.
Mulishkin also noted the successful cooperation with the Chinese corporation "Limin" to supply spare parts for aircraft engines.
Zhuhai (PRC), November 16. (ITAR-TASS). China shows steady demand for Russian aircraft engines for fighters, and expresses its intention to continue their purchases, said at the Airshow "Eyrshou China 2010" Director of Foreign Economic Affairs of the Moscow Machine Building Production Enterprise "Salut" Igor Mulishkin.
"We now finish the execution of another contract to supply 122 engines to China. Through Rosoboronexport are negotiating the purchase of new batches of engines," - said Mulishkin. He clarified that we are talking about the AL-31F engines for Su-27 and Su-30 and AL-31FN engines to equip new Chinese fighter J-10.
According Mulishkina, the demand for these engines, the Chinese side does not weaken, but rather increased. "Cooperation with China, our company is constantly evolving. We are considering the installation of engines of increased power and resources in Chinese-made aircraft," - he added.
Mulishkin also noted the successful cooperation with the Chinese corporation "Limin" to supply spare parts for aircraft engines.
nightcrawler- Posts : 522
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- Post n°40
China’s 4th-generation fighter plane will use the plasma stealth technology
nightcrawler Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:14 am
"According to information disclosed at a research institute, China’s 4th-generation fighter will use the plasma stealth technology, its performance will exceed the foreign serving four generations fighter plane.
The photo shows the information from a Chinese research institute:
China's 4th-generation fighter plane will use the plasma stealth technology
In the 9 circles, the proposed high-pressure arc air ionization Application Testing zone
…However, due to the fact of the gap between the current H4B-A3-2 program and foreign active-duty 4-th generations fighter palne in the low detectability indexes, our research institute’s topic of high-pressure arc air ionization application Testing in some strong reflex zone is timely and necessary.This technology, once put into use, will enable our 4-th generations fighter plane to reach finally foreign active-duty ones.To use specifically…"
Secret revealed: China’s 4th-generation fighter plane will use the plasma stealth technology | WAREYE
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xaxaxa
Lay off the science fiction please
Lay off the science fiction please
Ogannisyan8887- Posts : 62
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- Post n°42
Chinese 'used Top Gun footage' in broadcast on real air force exercise
Ogannisyan8887 Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:59 am
Chinese 'used Top Gun footage' in broadcast on real air force exercise
The footage broadcast by China Central Television was said to show a Chinese J-10 fighter plane firing a missile during manoeuvres and destroying another aircraft.
But film buffs noticed distinct similarities to an aerial combat scene from the Hollywood blockbuster, in which Tom Cruise plays a maverick airman at an elite school for US Naval aviators.
The image of the targeted aircraft exploding looked identical to an explosion towards the end of Top Gun, when Cruise's character hits a Russian plane with a missile.
The footage, which has been taken down from the CCTV website, will prove an embarrassment for the state broadcaster.
In a previous case in 2007, China's state-run Xinhua news agency issued a news story about a discovery related to multiple sclerosis, which was accompanied by an X-ray showing the head of cartoon character Homer Simpson.
The footage broadcast by China Central Television was said to show a Chinese J-10 fighter plane firing a missile during manoeuvres and destroying another aircraft.
But film buffs noticed distinct similarities to an aerial combat scene from the Hollywood blockbuster, in which Tom Cruise plays a maverick airman at an elite school for US Naval aviators.
The image of the targeted aircraft exploding looked identical to an explosion towards the end of Top Gun, when Cruise's character hits a Russian plane with a missile.
The footage, which has been taken down from the CCTV website, will prove an embarrassment for the state broadcaster.
In a previous case in 2007, China's state-run Xinhua news agency issued a news story about a discovery related to multiple sclerosis, which was accompanied by an X-ray showing the head of cartoon character Homer Simpson.
GarryB- Posts : 40537
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That is hardly possible as there were no Russian planes in Top Gun the movie.
TV companies do this sort of thing all the time... pinching a vid is easier and cheaper than recreating your own.
When the Russians released the story about their father of all bombs they didn't release any actual footage so someone spliced together footage of a Tu-160 flying and then a daisy cutter being pushed out the back of a C-130 and then a big explosion...
TV companies do this sort of thing all the time... pinching a vid is easier and cheaper than recreating your own.
When the Russians released the story about their father of all bombs they didn't release any actual footage so someone spliced together footage of a Tu-160 flying and then a daisy cutter being pushed out the back of a C-130 and then a big explosion...
IronsightSniper- Posts : 414
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Indeed. The plane used for the MiG-28 in the movie were actually F-5s. But the OP never said the Chinese footage showcased a Russian plane shot down.
GarryB- Posts : 40537
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Yes, the silly black painted F-5... bad memories of a silly film.
The worst part suddenly springs to memory... where Maverick is flying upside down above an enemy fighter and their canopies almost touch... both aircraft must have folding vertical tails I guess.
Still it only got worse... then there was the Iron Eagle series... no wonder the Israelis always win when any old American teenager can kick butt.
Of course the real issue is that the Chinese used stock footage instead of real footage... and most media companies do that when there is no real footage available. Half of the footage from Top Gun was not even filmed for Top Gun, it was stock footage of air to air combat training.
The worst part suddenly springs to memory... where Maverick is flying upside down above an enemy fighter and their canopies almost touch... both aircraft must have folding vertical tails I guess.
Still it only got worse... then there was the Iron Eagle series... no wonder the Israelis always win when any old American teenager can kick butt.
Of course the real issue is that the Chinese used stock footage instead of real footage... and most media companies do that when there is no real footage available. Half of the footage from Top Gun was not even filmed for Top Gun, it was stock footage of air to air combat training.
Pervius- Posts : 224
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I don't know about this "plasma" technology but tried reading about it. Supposedly the B-2 uses plasma to hide it's engine intake. Then I read all these reports the B-2's engines fans were cracking and there were US budget items to replace them.
So Plasma may hide, but maybe it can alter metallurgy in a way you are not expecting as well. An Indian man named Noshir Gowadia was hired to work for Northrup Grumman and he worked on the B-2. Later on he gave the B-2 blueprints to China as well as designed them stealth cruise missiles.
His trial is now over. If there is anything to "plasma"...it was Noshir Gowadia who gave it to China. They didn't even need to steal the technology, it was handed to them by that Indian man working on US stealth planes for Northrup.
Chinese might find out their plastic airplane might catch on fire from plasma in those areas...ha ha ha! wouldn't that be funny?
So Plasma may hide, but maybe it can alter metallurgy in a way you are not expecting as well. An Indian man named Noshir Gowadia was hired to work for Northrup Grumman and he worked on the B-2. Later on he gave the B-2 blueprints to China as well as designed them stealth cruise missiles.
His trial is now over. If there is anything to "plasma"...it was Noshir Gowadia who gave it to China. They didn't even need to steal the technology, it was handed to them by that Indian man working on US stealth planes for Northrup.
Chinese might find out their plastic airplane might catch on fire from plasma in those areas...ha ha ha! wouldn't that be funny?
GarryB- Posts : 40537
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A plasma is an ionised gas... there are two well known ways of doing this... heat a gas to a high temperature and it will form a plasma is one. Running an electric current through a gas is another, though rare earth gases with high currents through it can make for a pretty display as in a plasma ball, the plasma they are talking about doesn't need pretty lightning streaks through it.
An ionised gas will absorb radio emissions in all frequency ranges... so if you could surround an aircraft in ionised gas... or more accurately if you could ionise the air around an aircraft then you reduce its radar signature.
When an external radar beam enters the ionised area it loses energy... when it hits the surface of the aircraft its stealth shaping redirects the bouncing signal in directions away from the emitting radar to further reduce the signature and various coatings and materials used in the construction of the aircraft absorb radio energy and convert it into a tiny increase in heat... and finally whatever signal is still left bounces off the surface of the aircraft and travels back through the ionised gas with even more energy absorbed. The energy getting back to the emitting radar is diminished to the point where the target can only be detected with very powerful large antennas at relatively close range.
The obvious problem is that an aircraft is moving so to maintain ionised air around the aircraft you need to have some way of ionising vast amounts of air in front of the aircraft and let that ionised air flow over the plane, or you need to do sneaky things like in the Su-34 that is suggested to have a sealed container in the nose radome in front of the nose mounted radar with rare gases that form an ionised gas when a powerful electric current it passed through it. When the radar is not being used the plasma is activated so any radar waves from enemy radars will pass through the radar transparant radome and be absorbed in the ionised gas before it gets to the large Phased array radar.
An ionised gas will absorb radio emissions in all frequency ranges... so if you could surround an aircraft in ionised gas... or more accurately if you could ionise the air around an aircraft then you reduce its radar signature.
When an external radar beam enters the ionised area it loses energy... when it hits the surface of the aircraft its stealth shaping redirects the bouncing signal in directions away from the emitting radar to further reduce the signature and various coatings and materials used in the construction of the aircraft absorb radio energy and convert it into a tiny increase in heat... and finally whatever signal is still left bounces off the surface of the aircraft and travels back through the ionised gas with even more energy absorbed. The energy getting back to the emitting radar is diminished to the point where the target can only be detected with very powerful large antennas at relatively close range.
The obvious problem is that an aircraft is moving so to maintain ionised air around the aircraft you need to have some way of ionising vast amounts of air in front of the aircraft and let that ionised air flow over the plane, or you need to do sneaky things like in the Su-34 that is suggested to have a sealed container in the nose radome in front of the nose mounted radar with rare gases that form an ionised gas when a powerful electric current it passed through it. When the radar is not being used the plasma is activated so any radar waves from enemy radars will pass through the radar transparant radome and be absorbed in the ionised gas before it gets to the large Phased array radar.
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
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Looks like the L-15 has found it's first foreign customer
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airshow-china-catic-signs-deal-for-12-l-15-trainers-378931/
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airshow-china-catic-signs-deal-for-12-l-15-trainers-378931/
TR1- Posts : 5435
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The company is owned by China isn't it?
I suspect this will be a subsidized "donation" more than a full on sale, like China does with everything.
I suspect this will be a subsidized "donation" more than a full on sale, like China does with everything.
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
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Not necessarily. We'll see when more details are made public. There isn't that many supersonic trainers out there so they're targeting a niche market.