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Log inChina has not been able to solve engine problems and that could boost Su-35 sales
Production fighter in China is hardly
Production fighter in China is hardly
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PLA Air Force General News Thread:
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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nemrod- Posts : 839
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China claimed that its new radar could detect any stealth fighter. Whether it is true or not many countries in the world are decided to break US sky's monopoly.
http://www.asian-defence.net/2014/05/chinas-new-anti-stealth-ultra-wideband.html
Werewolf- Posts : 5927
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WW2 VHF radars can detect any stealth fighter, there is no object that can be hidden from radars, the only question is on which distances.
GarryB- Posts : 40487
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Stealth works in two ways... one is shaping the aircraft surface so that the radar return is redirected in a path that is different from that which it came from... imagine shining a torch at something at night and the light from your torch is deflected sideways instead of back to your eye. The result would be a dark object you could not see because the light reflecting from it is not directed at your eye.
The other way is using radar absorbant or radar transparent materials... which does not work the way you might think.
You don't make a plane more stealthy by making its outer skin radar invisible, because if the skin is radar invisible then radar waves will hit the internal structure and bounce all over the place creating a huge radar signature.
Making the entire vertical tail structure radar invisible would reduce radar signature, but the surface of the aircraft itself needs to be reshaped to deflect radar away from the radar source.
this is why taking an existing design can only do so much and actually getting a stealthy aircraft design needs design from scratch.
the problem with shaping an aircraft to deflect radar energy and scatter it in any way except back at the emitting radar only works in radar frequencies high enough to detect aircraft shape.
In very long waves hundreds of metres long can't detect features on an aircraft or the shape of an aircraft. It just detects the presence of an aircraft or its absence.
This means that longer wave radars can detect stealthy aircraft but can also do so at maximum range. Shaping can be defeated with very high power, but only works at reduced range... or to put it another way shaping greatly reduces the range a high frequency radar can detect and track a target. Long wave radar is not effected by shaping and therefore can detect and track stealthy targets at max range (which for long wave radars is usually rather large distances...
The other way is using radar absorbant or radar transparent materials... which does not work the way you might think.
You don't make a plane more stealthy by making its outer skin radar invisible, because if the skin is radar invisible then radar waves will hit the internal structure and bounce all over the place creating a huge radar signature.
Making the entire vertical tail structure radar invisible would reduce radar signature, but the surface of the aircraft itself needs to be reshaped to deflect radar away from the radar source.
this is why taking an existing design can only do so much and actually getting a stealthy aircraft design needs design from scratch.
the problem with shaping an aircraft to deflect radar energy and scatter it in any way except back at the emitting radar only works in radar frequencies high enough to detect aircraft shape.
In very long waves hundreds of metres long can't detect features on an aircraft or the shape of an aircraft. It just detects the presence of an aircraft or its absence.
This means that longer wave radars can detect stealthy aircraft but can also do so at maximum range. Shaping can be defeated with very high power, but only works at reduced range... or to put it another way shaping greatly reduces the range a high frequency radar can detect and track a target. Long wave radar is not effected by shaping and therefore can detect and track stealthy targets at max range (which for long wave radars is usually rather large distances...
GarryB- Posts : 40487
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It should also be noted that aircraft like the Mosquito were difficult to detect on radar because of their wooden structure, but the engines betrayed their presence, while modern computer control and processing would greatly improve the precision and performance of any long wave radar today.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Nice number 
China's NDU recommends 400-strong Y-20 fleet
China's NDU recommends 400-strong Y-20 fleet
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Work in the right direction
China supersonic test machine failed
China supersonic test machine failed
nemrod- Posts : 839
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Age : 59
- Post n°58
China’s Breakthrough in Making WS-10 Engines for Its Advanced Aircrafts
nemrod Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:26 pm
China reached its critical milestone, as said one russian newspaper, for Pekin is important as appolo's program. Nevertheless, China invested a huge amount of money, at least 24 billions of $, this is the official figure, evidently, it could be far largest. The frencheese defense budget is only 30 billions of $. Now we can consider China as new incomer in the close club of great power. Nothing now opposed as China will become among the great superpowers if not the top.
http://tiananmenstremendousachievements.wordpress.com/tag/j-20/
http://tiananmenstremendousachievements.wordpress.com/tag/j-20/
China’s Breakthrough in Making Taihang Engines for Its Advanced Aircrafts
Recently, a photo of suspected J-11BS fighter jet has been posted on the internet. From the photo, we can see that the fighter uses China-made Taihang engine.
It is said that Chinese naval air force has quite a few J-11 installed with Taihang engines. In addition, the J-16 and China’s first-generation carrier-based fighter J-15 will have their existing engines be replaced by Taihang engines due to the latter’s better performance.
Taihang engine also known as WS-10 series of engine is the first high-performance, high-thrust turbofan engine with afterburner. It adopts high-thrust large bypass ratio and fully digital automatic control systems and has a maximum thrust of 30,000 lb.
The successful development of WS-10 is a milestone in China’s aviation engine industry. This blogger has learned in the news about the progress in the development of J-20 stealth fighter jet and Y-20 heavy transport that using the technology China has developed WS-10G engine with 35,000 lb thrust for stealth fighter jet, WS-15 with 40,000 lb thrust for J-20 stealth fighter jet and WS-20 engine with 31,000 lb thrust for Y-20.
According to Canada’s Kanwa Defense Review, Russia’s aviation industry is seriously upset by China’s cloning of Russian fighters in developing China’s J-11, J-15 and J-16 fighter jets and threatened to sanction China by refusing supply of the AL-31 engines used in those aircrafts, but when they saw China’s J-16 using WS-10 series of engines as replacement for AL-31 with better performance, they found that they were unable to sanction China.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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I thought it was already being used!
Oh, ok... They are saying it is a success, nevermind. That being said, it is said to be based on the GE F101...
Oh, ok... They are saying it is a success, nevermind. That being said, it is said to be based on the GE F101...
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Mike E wrote:I thought it was already being used!
Oh, ok... They are saying it is a success, nevermind. That being said, it is said to be based on the GE F101...
Keep in mind a lot of post-WW2 U.S. military tech was derived from German projects...hello flying wing!!!
GarryB- Posts : 40487
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Congratulations China, you can now make copies of a Russian jet engine that entered service 35 years ago... the world is your oyster.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Join date : 2014-06-19
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Lol, speaking it like it is!GarryB wrote:Congratulations China, you can now make copies of a Russian jet engine that entered service 35 years ago... the world is your oyster.
nemrod- Posts : 839
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Age : 59
GarryB wrote:Congratulations China, you can now make copies of a Russian jet engine that entered service 35 years ago... the world is your oyster.
Indeed, China copied not only russian engines, but many others hardwares, as soviets copied in the past german-nazis hardwares. As America copied Nazis german sicentists, as US looted after the collapse of Soviet Union what they could. About this, Iam very angry, because US looted most of the critical soviet military, space, and nuclear research. Most of this present US war machine, originated from soviet technology, not only in SAM that was adapted to the Patriot -wich was a real strainer, if not a mere shit-, but in radars, stealth technology, fighters-engines they now adapted into the F-22, but regarding too lasers, space program, tool machineries, etc....
In fact, all countries copy, but some countries copy more than others. Chieftly US.
To Garry :
I've posted a previous post explaining why China will become in the comming decades, likely at the end of this, the main super power here
https://www.russiadefence.net/t3155-why-china-will-become-the-first-superpower-soon-and-it-will-stay
Because, chinese leaders were very cleavers, they understood quickly without the tools they could not do something, for that reason they invested very early in a massive way in tool machineries areas, for 20 years -meanwhile the others like US and Russia left their potential declined, I mean this catastrophic decision behoved to Yeltsin's era for Russia-. If now, they are becoming leaders -if not presently, as you said, but surely next- in this area, this will provide to Military-complex a decisive asset to be the main super power. The only country who can dispute yet the supremacy in this area is Japan, but nippons are in deep economic depression, and they will sink next. Their only way to save themselves from shipwreck next is .....to have better relations with Russia and China.
This is why, many experts in the world expect China will be the strongest superpower next.
Again, the main responsible of declining situation that prevaills still now in Russia is the catastrophic Yeltsin''s era.
GarryB- Posts : 40487
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It all comes back to the petris dish...
Put food and a warm fluid to live in in a small dish and a single bacteria and it will reproduce at a rate that if it continued at the same rate for 2 years would result in a mass of bacteria the mass of the earth...
The thing is that despite the rapid growth when the bacteria reaches the edge of the dish and the end of the food it suddenly stops that dramatic growth.
Equally China has had enormous growth over the past few decades, with a lot of that being investment from the west... part of that enormous growth was simply because in many areas there was enormous room to improve.
Now that they are becoming a rival it will really come down to an assessment in the US as to whether China is the biggest threat or Russia is the biggest threat.
In terms of military forces the Russians have a strategic nuclear superiority over the US, which China does not have, which makes the Russians appear to be the most threatening, yet a closer examination of things might lead the US to realise with such an enormous population that Chinese power is clearly going to be a longer term threat than the Russians... of course they might never realise that... they are clearly pretty stupid.
Their dumbest logic is that my enemies enemy is my friend... incredibly stupid logic.
My enemies enemy is someone I can use against my enemy... but they are not my friend... ask the taleban... and Al Quada, and now ISIS.
I don't doubt China will become a very strong regional power, and her investment in Africa is largely ignored in the west but they are making deals and influencing minds over there... minds sick of the same old Imperial BS from the west.
I don't thing Russia will dominate the world like the US now does and I don't think China will either... I don't think it is healthy for any country to think they are in that sort of position... no matter how good their intentions might appear.
Put food and a warm fluid to live in in a small dish and a single bacteria and it will reproduce at a rate that if it continued at the same rate for 2 years would result in a mass of bacteria the mass of the earth...
The thing is that despite the rapid growth when the bacteria reaches the edge of the dish and the end of the food it suddenly stops that dramatic growth.
Equally China has had enormous growth over the past few decades, with a lot of that being investment from the west... part of that enormous growth was simply because in many areas there was enormous room to improve.
Now that they are becoming a rival it will really come down to an assessment in the US as to whether China is the biggest threat or Russia is the biggest threat.
In terms of military forces the Russians have a strategic nuclear superiority over the US, which China does not have, which makes the Russians appear to be the most threatening, yet a closer examination of things might lead the US to realise with such an enormous population that Chinese power is clearly going to be a longer term threat than the Russians... of course they might never realise that... they are clearly pretty stupid.
Their dumbest logic is that my enemies enemy is my friend... incredibly stupid logic.
My enemies enemy is someone I can use against my enemy... but they are not my friend... ask the taleban... and Al Quada, and now ISIS.
I don't doubt China will become a very strong regional power, and her investment in Africa is largely ignored in the west but they are making deals and influencing minds over there... minds sick of the same old Imperial BS from the west.
I don't thing Russia will dominate the world like the US now does and I don't think China will either... I don't think it is healthy for any country to think they are in that sort of position... no matter how good their intentions might appear.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Join date : 2014-06-19
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Yeah, and I side with the US?magnumcromagnon wrote:Mike E wrote:I thought it was already being used!
Oh, ok... They are saying it is a success, nevermind. That being said, it is said to be based on the GE F101...
Keep in mind a lot of post-WW2 U.S. military tech was derived from German projects...hello flying wing!!!
All countries copy/license etc, but China is in a whole nother dimension.
Werewolf- Posts : 5927
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China does not copy technologies because they are incapable. They copy because it is far better in their position. What that means is, they became an industrial country in the 60s while USSR and US started their space race during that time. China could do it all by themselfs but it would not take 50 years to catch up with Russia but would take around 80 years. They will copy to catch up as soon they gained their full industrialized MIC complex on a high niveau maybe comparable to Soviet Union's MIC they will not need to copy they will be the main country with main inovative and inventive technologies in both military and probably in civil area.
They could go the US way and waste trln USD worth projects just to end up having wasted money on a dead end project like the hundreds of projects done by several countries. Why waste money and time if haven't catched up yet? Right now they are very close and in some areas even better than US or Russia like logistical terms.
They could go the US way and waste trln USD worth projects just to end up having wasted money on a dead end project like the hundreds of projects done by several countries. Why waste money and time if haven't catched up yet? Right now they are very close and in some areas even better than US or Russia like logistical terms.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Thing is, even though they do copy/licence etc, they still invest a lot in new projects.Werewolf wrote:China does not copy technologies because they are incapable. They copy because it is far better in their position. What that means is, they became an industrial country in the 60s while USSR and US started their space race during that time. China could do it all by themselfs but it would not take 50 years to catch up with Russia but would take around 80 years. They will copy to catch up as soon they gained their full industrialized MIC complex on a high niveau maybe comparable to Soviet Union's MIC they will not need to copy they will be the main country with main inovative and inventive technologies in both military and probably in civil area.
They could go the US way and waste trln USD worth projects just to end up having wasted money on a dead end project like the hundreds of projects done by several countries. Why waste money and time if haven't catched up yet? Right now they are very close and in some areas even better than US or Russia like logistical terms.
higurashihougi
higurashihougi- Posts : 3392
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Mike E wrote:Thing is, even though they do copy/licence etc, they still invest a lot in new projects.Werewolf wrote:China does not copy technologies because they are incapable. They copy because it is far better in their position. What that means is, they became an industrial country in the 60s while USSR and US started their space race during that time. China could do it all by themselfs but it would not take 50 years to catch up with Russia but would take around 80 years. They will copy to catch up as soon they gained their full industrialized MIC complex on a high niveau maybe comparable to Soviet Union's MIC they will not need to copy they will be the main country with main inovative and inventive technologies in both military and probably in civil area.
They could go the US way and waste trln USD worth projects just to end up having wasted money on a dead end project like the hundreds of projects done by several countries. Why waste money and time if haven't catched up yet? Right now they are very close and in some areas even better than US or Russia like logistical terms.
The issue of "copying" is the reason why some people try to prevent the Su-35 contract with China. They say that if Russia has to sell it anyway, she should sell at least 100-200 planes and force Beijing to pay first, so that Russia can recieve a great sum of money before China can copy the Saturn 117S.
After all the Su-27 scandal is still relevant.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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higurashihougi wrote:Mike E wrote:Thing is, even though they do copy/licence etc, they still invest a lot in new projects.Werewolf wrote:China does not copy technologies because they are incapable. They copy because it is far better in their position. What that means is, they became an industrial country in the 60s while USSR and US started their space race during that time. China could do it all by themselfs but it would not take 50 years to catch up with Russia but would take around 80 years. They will copy to catch up as soon they gained their full industrialized MIC complex on a high niveau maybe comparable to Soviet Union's MIC they will not need to copy they will be the main country with main inovative and inventive technologies in both military and probably in civil area.
They could go the US way and waste trln USD worth projects just to end up having wasted money on a dead end project like the hundreds of projects done by several countries. Why waste money and time if haven't catched up yet? Right now they are very close and in some areas even better than US or Russia like logistical terms.
The issue of "copying" is the reason why some people try to prevent the Su-35 contract with China. They say that if Russia has to sell it anyway, she should sell at least 100-200 planes and force Beijing to pay first, so that Russia can recieve a great sum of money before China can copy the Saturn 117S.
After all the Su-27 scandal is still relevant.
- Hence the reason Russia has been shaky on that deal, and they should be!
If China pulled that one again, I doubt Russia would sell them any more advanced fighters etc.
George1- Posts : 18505
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Chinese Army Gets Brand New Early Warning and Control Aircraft
Capable of tracking nearly 100 vehicles at once, the Chinese military has launched its new airborne early warning and control aircraft (AEW&C), taking to the skies with the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).
The PLAAF has been offering sneak peeks into the existence of the KJ-500 for months now. Late last year, it released images of the plane’s paintjob, a wavy, sky blue with a white underbelly. But new images from the Chinese military show the aircraft now that it’s entered service.
A slightly smaller version of an earlier four-turboprop plane, the KJ-500 is fixed with a phased-array radar developed by the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology. The array consists of three parts, all housed within a saucer-shaped dome atop the aircraft. That dome also features a satellite communications antenna, as well as two passive electronic intelligence arrays.
Built by the Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation, developers had also considered a tear-drop shaped dome, which would have allowed larger radar systems to be installed, but that plan was later scrapped.
AEW&C aircraft can carry out surveillance operations over both ground and sea-based targets. Air-based radar allows for better detection, and has enhanced abilities of distinguishing between friendly and hostile aircraft. The plane’s high altitude also makes it harder for enemies to spot.
The United States may be losing out in the futuristic “counterspace” campaign.
China isn’t the only one with new surveillance aircraft in the region. Last month, the US Navy admitted that it was launching P-8A Poseidons out of bases in the Philippines. The Pentagon’s most advanced spy planes, the Poseidons are monitoring the contentious waters of the South China Sea, where various nations – including China – claim overlapping territories.
For its 2015 budget, China increased military spending by 10%, marking a steady rise over the last two decades. That budget now totals $141.45 billion, second in the world only to the US defense budget of $600 billion.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150330/1020222521.html#ixzz3VyGg7tFk
Capable of tracking nearly 100 vehicles at once, the Chinese military has launched its new airborne early warning and control aircraft (AEW&C), taking to the skies with the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).
The PLAAF has been offering sneak peeks into the existence of the KJ-500 for months now. Late last year, it released images of the plane’s paintjob, a wavy, sky blue with a white underbelly. But new images from the Chinese military show the aircraft now that it’s entered service.
A slightly smaller version of an earlier four-turboprop plane, the KJ-500 is fixed with a phased-array radar developed by the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology. The array consists of three parts, all housed within a saucer-shaped dome atop the aircraft. That dome also features a satellite communications antenna, as well as two passive electronic intelligence arrays.
Built by the Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation, developers had also considered a tear-drop shaped dome, which would have allowed larger radar systems to be installed, but that plan was later scrapped.
AEW&C aircraft can carry out surveillance operations over both ground and sea-based targets. Air-based radar allows for better detection, and has enhanced abilities of distinguishing between friendly and hostile aircraft. The plane’s high altitude also makes it harder for enemies to spot.
The United States may be losing out in the futuristic “counterspace” campaign.
China isn’t the only one with new surveillance aircraft in the region. Last month, the US Navy admitted that it was launching P-8A Poseidons out of bases in the Philippines. The Pentagon’s most advanced spy planes, the Poseidons are monitoring the contentious waters of the South China Sea, where various nations – including China – claim overlapping territories.
For its 2015 budget, China increased military spending by 10%, marking a steady rise over the last two decades. That budget now totals $141.45 billion, second in the world only to the US defense budget of $600 billion.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150330/1020222521.html#ixzz3VyGg7tFk
type055- Posts : 101
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Join date : 2014-09-03
the negotiation of SU35 deal get stuck, has nothing to do with numbers. PLAAF want to su35 can use their own rada and fire their own missles. they want modify SU35 to integrate with their system. it need a lot work.
max steel- Posts : 2930
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Join date : 2015-02-12
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Does china steal US WEAPON and advanced weapon TECH . All because of US they got MIRVed nukes . I read somewhere they even hacked Iron dome sys.
type055- Posts : 101
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Join date : 2014-09-03
new J11 modify version called J11D
new AESA radar
modify trapezoidal mounts to fire PL-10（active-radar BVR air-to-air missile）
add oil filling pipe
bigger vertical tail
use more composite material
just find these pic today , more differences need discover .
new AESA radar
modify trapezoidal mounts to fire PL-10（active-radar BVR air-to-air missile）
add oil filling pipe
bigger vertical tail
use more composite material
just find these pic today , more differences need discover .
sepheronx- Posts : 8821
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Location : Canada
Any info on the J-11D radar? Track, scan, ect? Find it funny they get it on an Su-27 aircraft while Russia has not, even though they had AESA tech for a long time, then opted for Hybrid.....
nemrod- Posts : 839
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Join date : 2012-09-11
Age : 59
J-11D makes maiden fiight, this aircraft is equiped with new AESA radar. It would be interresting to know if this last fighter uses WS-10G -chines vector thrust engine version- as engines. It seems that the last produced fighters uses all WS-10A.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150430/1021567701.html#ixzz3YurdofZW
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150430/1021567701.html#ixzz3YurdofZW
China’s J-11D Fighter Copied From Russian Su-27 Jet Makes Maiden Flight
China's high-end J-11D fighter aircraft, a copy of the Russian Sukhoi Su-27 jet, made a maiden flight.
MOSCOW (Sputnik) — China's high-end J-11D fighter aircraft, a copy of the Russian Sukhoi Su-27 jet, has made a maiden flight, local media reported Thursday.
China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition
© REUTERS/ STRINGER
China's Air Show Concludes With Record Number of Contracts
Photos uploaded to the Internet on Wednesday show the latest modification of China's domestically-constructed J-11B aircraft, initially designed as a copy of the Soviet-made Su-27, the Sina.com news portal said.
Unlike its predecessor, the J-11D model reportedly has phased-array radar and an air refueling system, and carries PL-10 air-to-air missiles.
The aircraft is produced by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. China purchased the Su-27 manufacturing license from Russia in the 1990s and has been building new versions using domestic parts.