Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

PapaDragon wrote:
They are developing 100mm guided shells because those guns are most numerous currently in service on new ships

Buyans, Steregushis and now upgraded Udalois all use 100mm guns

Other calibers need to proliferate firs before development of new shells for them can start

It's pretty easy to adapt the technology used in 100mm shells for 130mm or 152mm shells.

Or 76mm.

GarryB wrote:Indeed the splinter range of an airburst 100mm shell would be rather significant.... to the point where small drones are used you could potentially use them between drones to kill them groups at a time...

If you get drones in swarms, you kill them in swarms...  

They can also increase the weight of the fragments and down hardened targets.

Their 100mm naval guns have a range of something like 22km against air targets I seem to remember... I wonder if this extends that range?

Above they say 15 km against air targets. The guided 57 mm projectile is a bit longer than the regular one, so that is less propellent, but that is just one possibility, because the 100 mm projectile is much bigger and everything should fit more easily. Actually with the amount of HE that can carry, the 15 km range, the speed of a the projectile and the fire rate, they should get many chances to re-engage the target, unless it is very fast. For a highly subsonic missile @300 m/s, 15 km means 50 seconds or time to fire more than 65 rounds... a guided projectile would need to be a really shitty one to need one tenth of that amount per target.

Makes me want to see them put 152mm naval guns in service.... 100mm guns have HE rounds in the 16kg weight range... their 130mm guns have 33kg weight projectiles, but 152mm rounds are generally 40-45kgs... of course land based 203mm rounds are 110kgs...

Certainly it makes it more and more attractive to increase the size of the gun, I guess the statements we heard about the Koalitsiya being adapted for naval use are not unfounded. Unlike in old times you don't need many guns on board to saturate a target and also don't need to have a huge magazine, a big guided projectile that lands on the spot or hits an air target when it is needed will more than pay off.

Soon russian civilian fleet = russian navy !!


Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
1h
Izvestia reports that the Russian Navy will test modular weapon systems and equipment that can be housed in 20 or 40-foot shipping containers. These can include cruise missiles, anti-ship missiles, Redut/Pantsir-M-type AD system, and submarine defenses.

I remember reading somewhere that the Sovremmeny Destroyers had over 1,000 130mm shells for their two gun mounts... which is a lot of fire power for a destroyer sized ship.

100mm rounds are about 16kg HE rounds, while the 130mm guns fired shells of about 33kg.

If they are making 152mm rounds that can reach 170km then why would you not put them on your cruisers?

Even if they are guided 10kg rounds for hitting individual light vehicles like utes with HMGs on the back... or 25kg slimline low drag rounds...

GarryB wrote:I remember reading somewhere that the Sovremmeny Destroyers had over 1,000 130mm shells for their two gun mounts... which is a lot of fire power for a destroyer sized ship.

They could save a lot of space and weight replacing that with say 400 dumb shots + 100 smart ones, and still be way more effective. Maybe also more expensive, but the other advantages would more than compensate I think.

They were supposed to help during landing operations. That's why they put so many guns on them and big ones, to fire far away at ground targets during the operation which explain why so many rounds.

I already posted it 3 posts before you but yours is better and more complete .

Surprised by the redut missiles. Will be good for steregoutchshy ships. They could load a barge with more reduts and act as a barrier for tomahawks.

They could save a lot of space and weight replacing that with say 400 dumb shots + 100 smart ones, and still be way more effective. Maybe also more expensive, but the other advantages would more than compensate I think.

These days they could adapt those smart fuses and make them all guided rounds and therefore also much more effective too.

They were supposed to help during landing operations. That's why they put so many guns on them and big ones, to fire far away at ground targets during the operation which explain why so many rounds.

Yes, initially they took a Sverdlov cruiser out of retirement with its 152mm guns but the 130mm guns had better range even if the shells were lighter... and the rate of fire was much better too.

Surprised by the redut missiles. Will be good for steregoutchshy ships. They could load a barge with more reduts and act as a barrier for tomahawks.

Yes, Redut is interesting... especially to 400km...

I suspect it was the INF treaty that was really holding back containerised missiles because there is no way to prove any truck or train with standard shipping containers is not carrying missiles, but without the INF treaty it does not matter any more...

Russia already offers naval 57mm gun for export.

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/shipborne-weapons/au-220-m/

Just to give an idea of how small a ground tor VLS is. You can compare to the heavy Udaloy Tor which is take lot of space for no reason.

Btw this launcher could carry 16 new missiles that have better caracteristics than the ones in the picture and it could fit on any ship pretty much anywhere. Too bad they didn't use it on karakurt instead of pantsir. Tor has better Pk than Pantsir.

It could also fit on Bykov class to make it a real corvette.

The problem with the naval TOR is the same as the problem for the naval S-300 Rif an Rif-M... they needed to be able to access the missiles to do tests and checks so they couldn't pack them in tight in cells. What they ended up doing for both was to have a rotary launcher with 12 or so missiles in a rotary system that positions each of the 12 missiles as needed below a specific hatch for launch. As you can imagine putting 12 missiles in a circle means you need mechanical mechanisms below deck to move the missiles round in a circle which takes up a lot of room.

Replacing these old systems with fixed cells would make them much smaller and more compact and free up a lot of underdeck space for other things too... as you mention the old land based TOR carried 8 missiles vertically mounted in a turreted vehicle but the newer missiles are half the size so it now carries 16 missiles ready to launch which are faster and longer ranged and rather more accurate while being cheap simple command guided missiles that are very accurate.

Traditionally TOR has been mainly used on their bigger ships... from the Udaloy destroyers to their cruisers.... Slava and Kirov class, as well as standard on the Kuznetsov CV.

New turret for the naval 57mm gun. It is the same gun as on Derivatsia SHORAD.

https://vpk.name/news/443632_submarina_severnogo_flota_otstrelyalas_protivolodochnoi_raketoi.html

Nuclear submarines in "duel" excercises employed missile-torpedo to engagé the enemy.

This about some pasted doubts here about the integration of this fundamental anti-submarine weapon (offering enormous advantages ,in "duel" and transient remote contact, situations over enemies devoid of similar counterparts) on board Federation's submarine fleet.

Source: Russia completed state tests of the Otvet anti-submarine missile system

It can be adopted by the Navy in December 2020 - January 2021

MOSCOW, November 4. / TASS /. The new Russian shipborne anti-submarine missile system "Answer" has passed state tests, it is planned to be adopted by the Russian Navy in December 2020 - January 2021. A source in the military-industrial complex told TASS about it.

"The state tests of the newest anti-submarine anti-submarine complex" Answer "have been successfully completed. They have been carried out since 2019 from the board of the first serial frigate of project 22350" Admiral Kasatonov, "the agency's source said.

The source noted that now "the preparation of technical documentation is underway and in December 2020 - January 2021," Answer "will be adopted." "The Ministry of Defense has already begun serial purchases of the complex for the needs of the Navy," he said.

The interlocutor of the agency added that the majority of surface ships of the fleet, including the missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov, will be equipped with "Answer".

TASS has no official confirmation of the information provided by the source.

As reported in September last year by the Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexei Krivoruchko, the "Answer" complex was already undergoing state tests at that time, the company - the developer of the complex - the Concern "MPO" Gidpropribor "- was conducting its pilot production.

According to open sources, the "Answer" consists of an anti-submarine guided missile, which is fired from universal launchers 3C-14 (also used for cruise anti-ship missiles "Caliber", "Onyx" and "Zircon"). At the head of the "Answer" rocket is a small-sized homing anti-submarine torpedo. Having reached the target area, the rocket drops a torpedo into the water by parachute, which then continues to independently search for the enemy submarine, using its sonar station. The maximum firing range of the missile complex in the version for surface ships is 40 km.

On October 28, the press service of the Northern Fleet announced that the frigate Admiral Kasatonov had fired an anti-submarine missile at the training grounds of the fleet in the Barents Sea. One of the nuclear submarines watched the movement of the torpedo that had separated from the rocket in the water. It was noted that the shooting was carried out as part of the qualification serial tests of the product and was recognized as successful. The press service did not specify what kind of missile complex they were talking about.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/9910377

The Otvet combines the Kaliber and Paket NK. The interception range of Otvet is 50 km and four torpedo-missiles
can be fired at once with a response time of 10 seconds. The tropedo part is the thermal tracking MTT.

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/shipborne-weapons/mtt/

The variant used in Otvet can operate down to 800 m below the surface. It can do 50 knots in the water.

A key feature of Otvet is that it is designed to be universal for all classes of Russian naval ships. It will be
deployed first on the Kasatonov.

That solves that mystery... I was wondering why they seemed to be talking about a brand new weapon whose description sounded a lot like the 91ER1...

So Otvet is the new system... interesting.

The 20km range torpedo sounds rather like an Indian weapon Sujoy was talking about too...

What is the newest Russian heavy torpedo? Have there been any recent major developments in their anti-ship torpedos?

According to post 221 in this thread:

"The tests of the newest Futlyar torpedo — an improved Fizik — are being carried out successfully. They are planned to be completed by the end of 2017. The Russian Navy will put it into service in 2018," the source said.

But a look through the earlier pages might give more information...

On the catalogue of rosoboronexport you can see plenty of torpedoes of all sort and of different homing heads.

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/shipborne-weapons/

Russian coastal seabed sonar system explained.

Otvet... (ignore the screen shot missile...)