Russian Civil Aviation: News

NationalRus wrote:still amezes me how sukhoi manages to fuck up, biulding this plane with dozen of partner all over the worl since over a dacade and then go and crash it in indonesia befor full production... i facepalmed really hard that day, first foureign buyer armenia already returned both planes

what a fuckd up and sad company  

Wow, what a stupid ass post.

Armenia can't afford the planes because they are broke.
The Indonesia crash was an unfortunate event due to pilot error, atmospheric conditions, and ground control mistake. Not the planes fault.

WHy do people insist on talking about subjects they did not even bother to research for 10 minutes?

NationalRus wrote:still amezes me how sukhoi manages to fuck up, biulding this plane with dozen of partner all over the worl since over a dacade and then go and crash it in indonesia befor full production... i facepalmed really hard that day, first foureign buyer armenia already returned both planes

what a fuckd up and sad company  

Yeah, pretty much.  I was reading from here:

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/37677/

He explained that they had issues with foreign components and had to go back and get new contracts, etc etc.

I have more hopes for MS-21 as it is better for Russian industry than SSJ-100, and Sukhoi civil aviation industry totally messed up with the recent kerfuffles like the belly landing and the other one crashing.

Austin wrote:The idea is to make SSJ-130 engine compatible with MS-21 engine by opting for PW engine.

There is also a PD-10 engine in 10T class that will be offered with SSJ-130 just like MS-21

http://www.avid.ru/eng/advanced-developments/pd-14_/

PD -10 - modification with reduced thrust to 10...11 tf for SSJ‑NG aircraft.

PD-14 last I heard was supposed to be the engines used, not PW1000. Although, if they decide to opt for PW engines, then I can see the other civil aircraft engine companies faulting in Russia, which would screw up Russia significantly more in the long run and they will lose more talent. They need to put more investment in the development of their own engines, not just expect to keep importing.

TR1 wrote:

NationalRus wrote:still amezes me how sukhoi manages to fuck up, biulding this plane with dozen of partner all over the worl since over a dacade and then go and crash it in indonesia befor full production... i facepalmed really hard that day, first foureign buyer armenia already returned both planes

what a fuckd up and sad company  

Wow, what a stupid ass post.

Armenia can't afford the planes because they are broke.
The Indonesia crash was an unfortunate event due to pilot error, atmospheric conditions, and ground control mistake. Not the planes fault.

WHy do people insist on talking about subjects they did not even bother to research for 10 minutes?

armenia complained about problems in the plane and returned ther first one way back, it was somthing with the airframe or somthing with the reliability, dont know right now, oh and aeroflot already demanded compensation from suhkoi, you forgot that? they couldent deliver parts up time and the plane had breakdowns and failures and couldent be a lot of the time operational

and no its is sad, a company which cant plan a good damn PR campaign and its PR flights in advance.. well shows ther level of professionalism, good luck selling big contracts now, and the most funny thing they are not even up to produce it actaully, didnt they want it to be in full production 2012? and then forgot they had to upgrade ther facilities first.....  

All new birds have teething issues. If you think other airliners don't suffer this, you are living in an alternate reality.
Have you not been noticing the FAR more serious Dreamliner issues recently?!?!

Armenia wasn't even able to afford the 2nd bird they ordered.
Aeroflot took early delivery in an early layout, the are now getting the full specced bird. They knew this would happen when they signed on, and they still stayed with Sukhoi.

I get it though, you have made up your undecuated mind on the subject.
I am done arguing with clueless ignoramuses on this topic, it is getting old.

of course i noticeds the issues with the dreamliner, but "far" more serious? i doubt that, more public maybe becouse more succesfull, and pointing finger ate other and saying they have problems to doesnt make your owns go away, and im more interested in my country in the first place

maybe they couldent aford the second one, so what doesnt the problem go away eather. made it only worse for armavia, the bought a plane were financialy strangled and couldent even fly the plane becouse of its technical problems, this plane was practicaly a stab in the back for them andlooks like aeroflot didnt expected this level of incompetence ether if they go public as a part of goverment against a company which is also partly owned by the goverment, surly you expect some issues but not even capable of delivering spare parts...

and well talking big and then fucking up the delivery right from the very start becouse ther facilities are not up to the job

but yeah be a sad apologist, claim people are dumb who not wear pink glasses, its surly sombody else falt, sukhoi surly planned out everything to perfection, its just the wrath of god or somthing, nothing could be done

Unfortunately yeah, Sukhoi is really shooting itself in the foot with the SSJ.

Just because Boeing is fking up on the 787 it doesn't mean Sukhoi has to do it too.
Hell let's face it - the 787 has no competitors whatsoever, is a far bigger and more complex plane and basically Boeing has a quality reputation overall and a quasi-monopoly on that segment for the moment and can do what it wants.

Sukhoi is trying to push a new generation of Russian civil aircraft out the door at a time when Russian planes routinely fall out of the sky; it's doing this in a crowded, highly competitive market and hopes to sell the SSJ not only in traditional Russian markets but now to break into Europe and North America too.
They're trying to sell the plane to Indonesia, and crashed the plane and killed everyone on board.
They're trying to sell the plane in Europe; and have just performed a belly-landing in Iceland.
Yeah great.

Pure and simple - Sukhoi hoped to get into Embraer and Bombardier field of aircrafts which is understandable. But the way they executed it, it seemed like they were hoping for too much. They pretty much went with all import technology, holding tenders for lowest bidder, slapped it together and called it a Russian jet (I have proved it multiple times in here, and not that wikidot BS), and what ends up happening? Pretty much, only Russian companies purchased it, and even then, complained about it (Aeroflot as an example). Now they are trying to push out a model using foreign engines now? The SaM engines were already joint venture between France and Russia. Now they just want to go with something done entirely outside, even though engines are not the issue at hand.

I seriously hope SSJ fails, and by the looks of it, it already is (sorry, but 30 orders from Indonesia, and 20 from Mexico is far FAR from a success).

MS-21 on the other hand shows far more promise and I hope that it is successful. But even then, some news here and there indicate that they may try to go the SSJ route and import everything, slap it together, and hope that it works. Cause the sad reality is, just because it comes from outside, does not always make it better.

They really need to work on what people want, not what is the easiest to slap together and hope to sell. These civil aircraft manufacturers seem to be pretty incompetent in Russia. They are all trying to make a quick buck and not think of the future.

I wonder though, if SSJ does become successful, will USA blacklist Sukhoi Civil Aviation, or UAC altogether, like they did with T-Platforms? I would laugh if they did, and see the look on the CEO's faces as they think "Oh crap, maybe we should have invested more in domestic production".

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/37975/

2nd Superjet delivered to Interjet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_K1NynDMbU#at=25

Interjet welcoming the bird, nice vid!

Interview with Mikhail Pogosyan

Prospects for domestic aircraft

Top 10: Airlines with the best cabin crew uniform in 2013 (Europe and Asia-Pacific)

Aeroflot is No-1 in Europe  

Yes, Im sure it had all to do with the uniforms, surely.

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/33562/

Moskavia gets its first Superjet!
This is a bird destined for Armavia originally.

Looks Good , I am waiting for more sales order for SSJ , MS-21 and An-148/158 during MAKS-2013

Building the An-148

Boeing 787 Global Suppliers

Aeroflot Superjet new colour scheme  

This should make sepheronx happy  

Rogozin is preparing a meeting on aircraft construction
.

July 30, 2013 Choose the date 13:10


Moscow. July 30. INTERFAX.RU - Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, August 14 will convene a meeting with the producers and operators of aircraft.

"State-owned companies should buy for their needs our civilian aircraft. Aug. 14 will hold a meeting of its producers and customers," - he wrote Tuesday in his " Twitter ".

According to Deputy Prime Minister, he is waiting for proposals from the "United Aircraft Corporation" (UAC) on long-haul wide-body aircraft and the passenger version of the Il-112.

Rogozin added that the decision to start production of light transport aircraft Il-112V will be worked out his passenger version.

Some info on IL-112

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/ilyushinil112t/
http://www.ilyushin.org/eng/products/military/112v.html


Though Rogozin is a loud mouth but I have observed he supports Russian Equipment over foreign ones.

He supports it because it is a popular thing to say.

The guy is pretty useless in actual capacity.

Superjet alley!

ali.a.r wrote:Yes, Im sure it had all to do with the uniforms, surely.

If that blonde girl is typical, I think it was the right choice.  Some of the British and US airline staff can look pretty poor.

Austin wrote:This should make sepheronx happy  

Rogozin is preparing a meeting on aircraft construction
.

July 30, 2013 Choose the date 13:10


Moscow. July 30. INTERFAX.RU - Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, August 14 will convene a meeting with the producers and operators of aircraft.

"State-owned companies should buy for their needs our civilian aircraft. Aug. 14 will hold a meeting of its producers and customers," - he wrote Tuesday in his " Twitter ".

According to Deputy Prime Minister, he is waiting for proposals from the "United Aircraft Corporation" (UAC) on long-haul wide-body aircraft and the passenger version of the Il-112.

Rogozin added that the decision to start production of light transport aircraft Il-112V will be worked out his passenger version.

New long haul, wide body will be very interesting. I wonder if it involves Chinese partnership?

I'd also love to see a Russian rival to the A380. It does seem to have similarities with the Sukhoi "Wings of Russia" KR860 plan of the early 90s..

The new "fun and funky" designs for Aeroflot livery look cool IMO.

On the "Aviastar-SP" 2017 is planned to collect 20 Tu-204SM

At the international air and space show "MAX", which will be held in Zhukovsky outside Moscow on August 27 to September 1, with the domestic airline Red Wings will sign an agreement for the supply of Tu-204SM. This is the director OGKU "Development of aviation cluster of the Ulyanovsk region" Yuri Sarychev.

"First, we are waiting for an order from the government agencies - is the transfer of aircraft for the Defense Ministry. Also expected to build ten aircraft of Red Wings. Total 2017 will gather 20 vessels Tu-204SM." Aviastar-SP "is ready for production. Now four cars are in the process of more than 50 percent of the complete set. That is, two or three cars a year actually produce in addition to existing orders "Aviastar" - commented Sarychev.

In June of this year, new Tu-204SM, produced by "Aviastar" received addition to the type certificate and is ready for passenger traffic. According to the management of JSC "Aviastar-SP", the plant is ready for serial production. However, the profit it does not go, "Aviastar" necessary start-up funding for the production of aircraft. So, for each machine TU-204SM to about 900 million rubles of subsidies.

On the "Max" will sign several agreements. First, between the Government of the Ulyanovsk region and the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) will sign an agreement on the establishment of the center of the transport aircraft. Between the regional government, the KLA, "Aviastar-SP", Ulyanovsk State University and the Ulyanovsk Aviation cluster are expected to sign an agreement on the establishment of industrial park on the territory of "Aviastar-SP". It is also expected to sign an agreement on international cooperation with the enterprise "Antonov" (Kiev).

On the "Aviastar-SP" 2017 is planned to collect 20 Tu-204SM

First 204SM is 100% Russian component and module based. No interest of airlines outside russia.
SSJ  success stories -> 8 out of 10 aircraft for non russian airlines. Thats the key.

rate of manufacture SSJ -> 2 SSJ  per month rate(as of Jan 2014) and compare that to 204SM 4 aircrafts 10 years... !   

204 SM  in direct conflict to MS-21 (which has lots of foreign buyers) from 2017.
The program for 204SM was basically flawed from start. It was 90ies era project and could only go as far
20-30 aircraft through its production lifetime.
204SM is at the mercy of Russian airlines and that too they do not want to buy it in a hurry.


It was planned to stop the production of 204SM after t 20-30 models and go with only MS-21.

Austin wrote:This should make sepheronx happy  

Rogozin is preparing a meeting on aircraft construction
.

July 30, 2013 Choose the date 13:10


Moscow. July 30. INTERFAX.RU - Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, August 14 will convene a meeting with the producers and operators of aircraft.

"State-owned companies should buy for their needs our civilian aircraft. Aug. 14 will hold a meeting of its producers and customers," - he wrote Tuesday in his " Twitter ".

According to Deputy Prime Minister, he is waiting for proposals from the "United Aircraft Corporation" (UAC) on long-haul wide-body aircraft and the passenger version of the Il-112.

Rogozin added that the decision to start production of light transport aircraft Il-112V will be worked out his passenger version.

Good. As much as people love to hate on Rogozin, the fact that he is trying to push local development is the best kind. Sorry TR1, but no, buying from abroad isn't always the best. I already posted a link regarding an interview with CEO of Sukhoi civil aviation that stated he had plenty of issues with foreign component makers. The more Rogozin loud mouths the idea of domestic consumption, the more domestic industries will try to gain deals for production of their own components. If it wasn't for people like him, Russia would be importing everything still, and the semiconductor industry would be next to non-existant, like it was a couple of years ago.

Il-112 is a better light transport plane than the An-140, as has been mentioned before.

Here is other news:

The agreement on the construction of Russia's largest aircraft maintenance center

The first resident of the port special economic zone (poetry) "Ulyanovsk-East" company "Rus AAR" build it the largest in the Russian service center and overhaul (MRO) of aircraft, including the foreign, the first aircraft will be able to get service in 2015 year, said on Wednesday in the branch of "special economic zone" in the Ulyanovsk region.
Addendum to the Agreement on the implementation of activities in the Port Special Economic Zone signed the Ministry of Economic Development of the Russian Federation, JSC "SEZ" Ltd. and "AAP Rus".

Obviously it isn't always the best

But the reality of the situation is if Superjet tried to go all domestic, it wouldn't exist today. At best it would still be in several pre-serial airframes.
That, is a fact. You guys grossly overestimate the ability of Russian civilian industry to make a plane, especially in the past decade.

My 2c:
If Russia can develop a 5gen fighter then there is absolutely no way or excuse it won't create a competitive airliner of any size.