Russian Civil Aviation: News

You hear the same thing because that is a fact of life , All Aircraft manufactured by Russia now need to get EASA certified to have a wider international appeal and to find space in European market.

Russian Civil industry after nearly 2 decades of freeze is not competitive in international market and like FSU days they dont have a captive market locally and internationally.

So if Russian aircraft dont size up against global types and are not competitive no one will buy it not even local players.

So the goal now is to buy best what they can internationally and get the best what they can get locally to make their aircraft internationally competitive , at the later stage once the orders keep flowing they can replace the international systems with local one as local industry develops and get enough order to do so.

Unless and Until Russian Civil Aircraft dont have enough orders they wont have a local industry to support it since numbers wont justify it making it locally and it would be cheaper to procure abroad.

Thank you TR with those links, but I have read through them and am not quite that impressed.

Point is, domestic cannot grow if no one is purchasing their goods. No money comes in, no money to spend on new development, which the companies end up dying and thus, competition goes down the gutter. I understand the Russian civil aircraft market was not as competitive now due to poor sales of over a decade, but fact remains, the parts are not made in Russia. Even if they are from outside, they should be joint built in Russia then sold abroad, so the companies can become competitive one day with their own design. Buying from abroad is good for short term, but long term, not the greatest. Embargoes are another potential issue, as western countries are not interested in having competition (see T-Platforms as an example).

If in case the Superjet or MS-21 does impede on markets that US or EU would normally get, then they could also end up on the blacklist, and both Sukhoi and Irkutsk will be really hard pressed to find alternative components, especially since the others that could in the country , would probably be dead by the time that happens.

sepheronx wrote:

Austin wrote:SSJ-100 makes crash landing in Iceland

http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_07_21/SSJ-100-makes-a-crash-landing-in-Iceland-6113/

A Sukhoi Superjet 100 has crash-landed at Keflavik International Airport in Iceland, a source with Isavia airlines has told reporters.

The airliner crashed while landing on Sunday morning. There were no casualties. No other details have been revealed so far.

According to Iceland media, the plane was carrying out a gear-up landing. It damaged one of the engines on landing and came to rest in the grass past the end of the runway.

Glad to hear people are fine.  I couldn't care less about this piece of junk known as the SSJ-100.  The aircraft is supposed to be pinnacle of technology by pretty much importing everything.  Thing is, this jet is no better than what the Tu-204SM is, and the Tu-204SM uses far more domestic technology.  If sukhoi wanted to do something for civil aircraft market, they should have just developed Tu-204SM into their own variant and rename it to something else, so they could get more spare parts as well as work with domestic industries rather than foreign.

I've reached the same conclusions as you - but for different reasons.

The SSJ-100 is a piece of junk, and with things carrying on the way they are the MC-21 will be too or even if it isn't it won't get any orders.

The problem is that our factory managers, Aeroflot, etc... have made the SSJ into a piece of junk. Technologically it's a very capable aircraft.
It's just that Russian airplanes already have a bad reputation problem. And now the very newest one has barely arrived yet already someone rode it straight into a hill and now someone else has performed a belly landing in Iceland.
These quality control issues are ravaging whatever chances of success the SSJ may have had. Pilot was stupid, or the engineers were at fault - what does it matter? Who's going to buy a piece of junk Russian aircraft after this if all they do is fall from the sky?

The MS-21 will be hit hugely by anything that happens to the SSJ too.

Russia has no business building passenger aircraft until we sort out our own defective parts and materials in the factories, and screen all the staff working on and operating these things.

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Austin wrote:SSJ-100 makes crash landing in Iceland

http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_07_21/SSJ-100-makes-a-crash-landing-in-Iceland-6113/

A Sukhoi Superjet 100 has crash-landed at Keflavik International Airport in Iceland, a source with Isavia airlines has told reporters.

The airliner crashed while landing on Sunday morning. There were no casualties. No other details have been revealed so far.

According to Iceland media, the plane was carrying out a gear-up landing. It damaged one of the engines on landing and came to rest in the grass past the end of the runway.

Glad to hear people are fine.  I couldn't care less about this piece of junk known as the SSJ-100.  The aircraft is supposed to be pinnacle of technology by pretty much importing everything.  Thing is, this jet is no better than what the Tu-204SM is, and the Tu-204SM uses far more domestic technology.  If sukhoi wanted to do something for civil aircraft market, they should have just developed Tu-204SM into their own variant and rename it to something else, so they could get more spare parts as well as work with domestic industries rather than foreign.

I've reached the same conclusions as you - but for different reasons.

The SSJ-100 is a piece of junk, and with things carrying on the way they are the MC-21 will be too or even if it isn't it won't get any orders.

The problem is that our factory managers, Aeroflot, etc... have made the SSJ into a piece of junk. Technologically it's a very capable aircraft.
It's just that Russian airplanes already have a bad reputation problem. And now the very newest one has barely arrived yet already someone rode it straight into a hill and now someone else has performed a belly landing in Iceland.
These quality control issues are ravaging whatever chances of success the SSJ may have had. Pilot was stupid, or the engineers were at fault - what does it matter? Who's going to buy a piece of junk Russian aircraft after this if all they do is fall from the sky?

The MS-21 will be hit hugely by anything that happens to the SSJ too.

Russia has no business building passenger aircraft until we sort out our own defective parts and materials in the factories, and screen all the staff working on and operating these things.

How will they be able to fix those issues, if majority of the parts are not even from Russia? It is up to the QA of the other companies from other countries to deal with what issues is happening with the parts. All sukhoi is doing is assembling the damn aircraft really, with the airframe (which BTW, works great) is made in Russia.

And how will they be able to fix the defective parts from the factories, when those factories are not even working or getting money in, as all the parts are coming from outside? Python, Russia has little say on what the quality of these parts are.

The Civil aviation industry in Russia is pretty much done for, and these two jets are the nail in the coffin. What Russia should just do is seek cooperation with the countries that make Boeing and Airbus components to see if they they will open a joint plant in order to make those parts in Russia, and Russia should end up just building outside aircraft and spare parts for them.

So far, SSJ-100 does have high orders, and Irkutsk has even higher orders, but mainly those are domestic, so it sounds like it already is a failure for foreign sales.

http://en.rian.ru/business/20130724/182396521/Russian-Aircraft-Makers-Need-New-Recovery-Strategy--Deputy-PM.html

MOSCOW, July 24 (RIA Novosti) – The Russian aircraft industry must implement a new development strategy to conquer lost markets, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said Wednesday.
“Despite all efforts, the Russian civil aviation market has been lost to a great extent by our manufacturers,” Rogozin, who is responsible for the defense and aerospace industries, said at a government meeting to discuss the situation in the civil and military aircraft industries.
“The situation is unacceptable, so whether you agree or not, we must develop a strategy of new re-conquest,” he said, noting that up to 80 percent of all civil aircraft on Russian domestic flights are foreign-made.
According to company data, Aeroflot and Transaero, Russia’s two leading airlines, fly mostly Boeing and Airbus planes, with just a handful of Russian-made Ilyushin Il-96-300, Tupolev Tu-214, and Sukhoi Superjet 100-95 aircraft in service.

Well, guess those new jets being offered are not helping! Surprise surprise.

Uh yea, Superjet is not competing with bigger Boeings and Airbuses, so it is obviously not going to reconquer that market.

The market was lost in the Tu-204, Il96, etc era.
Can't expect Superjet to make massive headway in its own market segment within 2 years of serial production.

MS-21 is a serious alternative for Russian operators, since we are on the subject.
Nobody wants Tu-204, and they sure as shit ain't gonna wait for the "all-russian" fantasy that exists in some people's minds.

Btw, the other day a 737 broke its landing gear. OMG TEH CRAP PLANE11!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_K1NynDMbU

Good news, Intrjet has accepted its Superjet!

http://superjet.wikidot.com/news:397

Interjet plans to buy more Superjets will not be affected by the Iceland accident, according to the company.

If the quality of the imported parts is substandard then russia has no business using them. They should  invest in producing domesticly civil aviation components(for both russian and other aircraft so they can have full control over their production so they can get a quality product.Its of paramount importance for the russian  aircraft industry to try to put at least 1 succesful aircraft for civil use both for the sake of national pride and hope for future developments.

I'm having a hard time believing that Airbus and Boeing have a complete dominance in absolutely every civil aircraft market and there isn't a point in which a russian deseign beureau can make a better aircraft. If it can make equal or superior military jets compared to the west  theres no way it can't produce equal or superior civilian jets.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the quality of the imported parts is substandard then russia has no business using them. They should  invest in producing domesticly civil aviation components(for both russian and other aircraft so they can have full control over their production so they can get a quality product.Its of paramount importance for the russian  aircraft industry to try to put at least 1 succesful aircraft for civil use both for the sake of national pride and hope for future developments.

I'm having a hard time believing that Airbus and Boeing have a complete dominance in absolutely every civil aircraft market and there isn't a point in which a russian deseign beureau can make a better aircraft. If it can make equal or superior military jets compared to the west  theres no way it can't produce equal or superior civilian jets.

 
 
Yep.  But people want you to expect differently.  Point is, they are slapping together western equipment into a shell, and calling it a Russian jet.

TR1 wrote:Uh yea, Superjet is not competing with bigger Boeings and Airbuses, so it is obviously not going to reconquer that market.

The market was lost in the Tu-204, Il96, etc era.
Can't expect Superjet to make massive headway in its own market segment within 2 years of serial production.

MS-21 is a serious alternative for Russian operators, since we are on the subject.
Nobody wants Tu-204, and they sure as shit ain't gonna wait for the "all-russian" fantasy that exists in some people's minds.

Btw, the other day a 737 broke its landing gear. OMG TEH CRAP PLANE11!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_K1NynDMbU

Good news, Intrjet has accepted its Superjet!

http://superjet.wikidot.com/news:397

Interjet plans to buy more Superjets will not be affected by the Iceland accident, according to the company.

They did lose indeed, they lost significantly thanks to marketing campaigns and the industrial complex not being on time with their development. I am looking forward to MS-21 as I will see if it proves me either right or wrong. I rather be proven wrong that right.

"Yep.  But people want you to expect differently.  Point is, they are slapping together western equipment into a shell, and calling it a Russian jet."

That's not even remotely true.

And by the way, on the subject of your outburts all over the web about imported landing gear:

http://superjet.wikidot.com/wiki:gidromasevskoe-sassi

Gidromash is involved in the landing gear.

As are many Russian companies in supposedly "all imported" components. So plenty of the Russian industry is involved in the Superjet, not just the "shell".
If we look at the money % in terms of what stays in Russia and what goes abroad, the percentage is even more favorable towards Russia.

"Во 2 квартале 2011 года доля импорта в поставках материалов и товаров составила 53,32%."

This was in 2011. A high percentage no doubt, but given that a lot of that involves Russian work, the purely export segment is well under 50%.
You know Saturn is involved in the engine joint venture right?

Superjet is a great way to build up airliner presence again and rebuild the industry, while avoiding risky competition with the two goliaths of the industry.
MS-21 will be a much larger undertaking itself, and ofc has an exponentially likelier chance of succeeding or doing something positive than Tu-204SM.

TR1 wrote:"Yep.  But people want you to expect differently.  Point is, they are slapping together western equipment into a shell, and calling it a Russian jet."

That's not even remotely true.

And by the way, on the subject of your outburts all over the web about imported landing gear:

http://superjet.wikidot.com/wiki:gidromasevskoe-sassi

Gidromash is involved in the landing gear.

As are many Russian companies in supposedly "all imported" components. So plenty of the Russian industry is involved in the Superjet, not just the "shell".
If we look at the money % in terms of what stays in Russia and what goes abroad, the percentage is even more favorable towards Russia.

"Во 2 квартале 2011 года доля импорта в поставках материалов и товаров составила 53,32%."

This was in 2011. A high percentage no doubt, but given that a lot of that involves Russian work, the purely export segment is well under 50%.
You know Saturn is involved in the engine joint venture right?

Superjet is a great way to build up airliner presence again and rebuild the industry, while avoiding risky competition with the two goliaths of the industry.
MS-21 will be a much larger undertaking itself, and ofc has an exponentially likelier chance of succeeding or doing something positive than Tu-204SM.

 
I already posted as to where parts come from.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100#International_Participation
 
There is also a graphic of it on RIA.

If the landing gear is said to be that, then how come:

http://www.safranmbd.com/leader-mondial/programmes-majeurs/avions-regionaux/article/sukhoi-superjet-100

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/sukhoi-bids-to-fix-superjet-landing-gear-glitch-384019/

So it seems that Messier-Dowty is indeed involved with the landing gear.

That link is crap compared to what I posted.
Wikipedia? nice.
Ria graphics? don't make me laugh, come on now.

If you don't want to do the research then don't spout off in the subject.
Russian participation on the Superjet is much more than a "shell".

TR1 wrote:That link is crap compared to what I posted.
Wikipedia? nice.
Ria graphics? don't make me laugh, come on now.

If you don't want to do the research then don't spout off in the subject.
Russian participation on the Superjet is much more than a "shell".

 
I did.  Look up.  Messier-Dowty even mentiones that they make it.  Before spewing something as crap, maybe you should also look things up.
 
If you are having too much trouble TR1 in reading, here you go:
 

If the landing gear is said to be that, then how come:

http://www.safranmbd.com/leader-mondial/programmes-majeurs/avions-regionaux/article/sukhoi-superjet-100

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/sukhoi-bids-to-fix-superjet-landing-gear-glitch-384019/

So you are saying that Messier Dowty is lying about their use of the landing gear on SSJ-100? Or is your Wikidot lying? I think I rather take Messier Dowty to be exact, as they are a major corporation.

I have no idea what the specific point of failure on this landing was- though part of it had to do with the specific testing environment, that is for sure.

The landing gear maybe of "foreign origin" but it has components subcontracted to Russia.

I don't see what the issue is with using a proven landing gear provider, Sukhoi clearly felt it was more logical step than a Russian supplier which may or may not exist.
And before you say "Well the landing gear just failed!" let's wait until the end of the investigation. Equipment breaks, people make mistakes, it's not the end of the world in this case.
So far the Superjet's ailments (plenty of them from the Russian side mind you) have been fairly run of the mill as far as new-aircraft pains are concerned.

TR1 wrote:I have no idea what the specific point of failure on this landing was- though part of it had to do with the specific testing environment, that is for sure.

The landing gear maybe of "foreign origin" but it has components subcontracted to Russia.

I don't see what the issue is with using a proven landing gear provider, Sukhoi clearly felt it was more logical step than a Russian supplier which may or may not exist.
And before you say "Well the landing gear just failed!" let's wait until the end of the investigation. Equipment breaks, people make mistakes, it's not the end of the world in this case.
So far the Superjet's ailments (plenty of them from the Russian side mind you) have been fairly run of the mill as far as new-aircraft pains are concerned.

Yes, equipment does brake and mistakes do happen. I understand that. I just did not understand the move towards using an outside source rather than an inside source, for something already built in Russia. What others seem to be throwing at me is "but they need to get foreign sales or meet foreign demand". Well, that is fine and all, but the foreign sales are pretty pathetic. That may change in the future. But so can things like embargoes or black listings.

Was a Russian supplier available? In terms of the exact equipment needed + with reliable time tables?

I suspect if it was, Sukhoi would not have bothered looking abroad. In the post-USSR aviation climate, many subcontractors for Russian gears were either staffed by a skeleton crew or outside the countries borders.
Just look how long it took to re-establish Il-76 production in Russia.

TR1 wrote:Was a Russian supplier available? In terms of the exact equipment needed + with reliable time tables?

I suspect if it was, Sukhoi would not have bothered looking abroad. In the post-USSR aviation climate, many subcontractors for Russian gears were either staffed by a skeleton crew or outside the countries borders.
Just look how long it took to re-establish Il-76 production in Russia.

 
My only other guess is the "Lowest Bidder".  In other words, they probably held an open tender for these sales.  Which I am not against.

BuisnessJet in Rosoboronexport colors.

Just as an example, I saw the Airbus A380 up close this week. Ofcourse it is a terrific aircraft.
But not that long ago, Airbus was crashing planes at airshows, had a limited range and had pretty much ZERO military crossover/ support.

Yet they are now a world leader, with ZERO experience in building large jets - cargo or passenger.

Compare that with the vast wealth of experience Russia and her partners have. I just find it staggering that some EU countries have this, yet Russia hasn't produced a mega plane since the Antonovs/ Ilyushins. Even today, Russia is WAY AHEAD of Europe in aviation tech. Obviously these things take time, money and desire. But I cant see a Russia not wanting to be a civil aviation superpower again, like it undoubtedly is in military planes.

We were there just were not wanted

Interview of the President of JSC "Sukhoi Civil Aircraft" Andrei Vladimirovich Kalinowski

Kalinowski Andrey
He was born on September 28, 1963. He graduated from the Moscow Higher Technical School. NE Bauman in 1986. He started his career as an engineer at one of the Ural factories, and gradually moving up the career ladder, was able to take charge as CEO of one of the key enterprises and strategic aviation-industrial complex - of "NAPO. VP Chkalov. " Under his leadership from 2007 to 2012 the company was organized mass production of the Su-34. Work began on the implementation of Lean-technology and resource management system of production (ERP). It was put into operation a new high-efficiency equipment, implemented new processes, including the manufacture of composite and electron beam welding titanium case the cabin. In May 2011, being the head of "NAPO. VP Chkalov ", Andrei took the position of First Vice-President, Operations - Director of Komsomolsk - on - Amur branch of JSC" Sukhoi Civil Aircraft ", which unfolded Line assembly of Sukhoi Superjet 100. January 28, 2013 appointed President of JSC "Sukhoi Civil Aircraft".

This caught my attention:

To the west is not so smooth, and the problems of the Boeing 787 a glaring example. In some cases, we even change suppliers.

Tu-134 - 50 years in the sky

Currently, there is information that the Main Command of the Air Force decided to restore the entire existing fleet of training aircraft Tu-134UBL and Tu-134SH and appealed directly to the Minister of National Defense with a request for the required amount of cash. According to preliminary estimates, extending the life of almost 50 aircraft will need about 20 million rubles. Modification of the Tu-134UBL used for training military pilots, and the Tu-134SH for training navigators long-range aviation.

Read more at link

New record aircraft engine PS-90A - 40 000 hours since new

In July 2013 aircraft operating time leader of the PS-90A (№ 3290017) The development of "Aircraft Engine" rose above 40,000 hours since new. This is a record to date indicator - the number of unique flying hours among modern Russian aircraft engine no .

The engine was manufactured "Perm Engine Company" in 1990 and operated in the power plant of the IL-96-300 "James Moses" airline "Aeroflot-Russian Airlines".
For twenty-three years, the engine was mounted on six Il-96-300. Long engine life contributed competent operation, quality service and design innovations over which constantly works Perm Design Bureau. In particular, the leader of the SS-90A was re-equipped modified fan, turbine blades with a new thermal barrier coating, etc.

Positive news for Superjet Program.

Russia will start the production of Sukhoi SuperJet NG in 2019-2020

Russian government decided that a 130-seat aircraft (designated Sukhoi Superjet NG) must be added to the product line of United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), Vedomosti reports with reference to the Deputy Minister of Indistry and Trade, Yuri Slusar.

The financing of this project will be started in 2016. The required amount of financing will be defined after the completion of research, which is being carried by UAC using its own funds, the Deputy minster noted. A representative of UAC confirmed the information: «At present the project does not require significant investments. About 300 million rubles are allocated for it annually».

«The NG project will become a connecting link between Sukhoi SuperJet 100 manufactured by Sukhoi Civil Aircraft Company (SCAC) and MS-21 developed by Irkut Corporation», — the UAC’s representative added. The center section of SuperJet 100’s airframe will be stretched and used in the design of NG. The rest components will be more like ones used for MS-21. Irkut has dropped the idea of developing a 150-seat MS-21-200 aircraft.

Thus the smallest member of MS-21 Family will have 180 seats, while the SuperJet NG will be positioned in 90-160 seat segment. It is possible that UAC will be manufacturing all the aircraft under a single brand in future.

NG will derive MS-21’s composite wing and engines of the PW 1000G Family (instead of PD-14), a source close to UAC noted. SaM146 engine manufactured by NPO Saturn in cooperation with Snecma (France), which powers SSJ 100 jets, does not have enough thrust for 130-seat aircraft. It will be used only for SuperJet Stretch version seating 115 passengers (SSJ has 90-110 seats). The first serial Stretch should be put into operation in 2016 and the first NG — in 2019-2020, the source said.

Technical solutions developed in the network of MS-21 and SuperJet projects will be incorporated in the design of NG significantly lowering the cost of its development (about several hundred million dollars), the source added. For example, about $8 billion dollars will be invested in MS-21 project ($3,5 billion – from the federal budget and the rest $4.5 billion – from the Irkut Corporation’s own funds).

seriously? LOL PW engines over PD-14 engines?

Sukhoi is really looking forward to potential blacklisting and I hope they get it.

MS-21 will obviously the better aircraft.

I don't see how that is positive news Austin. They are ever so increasing the amount of imported rather than domestic and it is obvious with the choice of engine as well now.

The idea is to make SSJ-130 engine compatible with MS-21 engine by opting for PW engine.

There is also a PD-10 engine in 10T class that will be offered with SSJ-130 just like MS-21

http://www.avid.ru/eng/advanced-developments/pd-14_/

PD -10 - modification with reduced thrust to 10...11 tf for SSJ‑NG aircraft.

still amezes me how sukhoi manages to fuck up, biulding this plane with dozen of partner all over the worl since over a dacade and then go and crash it in indonesia befor full production... i facepalmed really hard that day, first foureign buyer armenia already returned both planes

what a fuckd up and sad company