Ka-52 in Russian Air Force

Nice.

Nice to see, that earlier bild Ka-52 also get radar and DIRCM balls. They need to install MAWS sensors on it.

TR1 you have found a very good site with HQ pictures thanks.




With the second EO ballits the Radio command tranciever for ATAKA ATGMs, *facepalm* next to GOES-342

My favorite

Actually the one above is the EO ball, but this had me confused a little bit


no turret that could move the ball, so this is the one with the Radio Command tranciever.

Werewolf wrote:Actually the one above is the EO ball, but this had me confused a little bit


no turret that could move the ball, so this is the one with the Radio Command tranciever.

On the photo is the second prototype. Maybe the second EO ball is just mock up for testings. On serial Ka-52 second EO ball is not present. Maybe Arbalet radar is good enough in ground mapping, so pilot doesn't need additional EO ball, which view angle would be very limited because of big ball in front.

I still believe this could be a package for the old radio command guided ATAKAs, because it hasn't the stereo optical devices on stubbed wings like they were presented before with the ATAKAs ATGMs armed. Also it has the dimensions of the Radio guidance aparature like Hinds have.
Maybe a photo from diffrent angle would help.
http://russianplanes.net/id70808

To me it doesn't look like EO ball at all, no turret to be moved, and also it would like you mentioned a very limited field of view, also its only on the side of the Pilot and he already can see the most things through the glass even with NVGs.

http://russianplanes.net/id32461

But this one has a turret to move the black ball and also its very obvious that on this picture its a EO ball, you can even see the lense.

PS: Image don't work

On serial Ka-52 second EO ball is not present. Maybe Arbalet radar is good enough in ground mapping, so pilot doesn't need additional EO ball, which view angle would be very limited because of big ball in front.

The black thimble on the Mi-28N and Mi-24/35 has a radio wave transmitter in the 35GHz range... it is not a radar as such though it operates at MMW radar frequencies.

If that extra black ball was to allow command guided Shturm and Ataka and Krisantema missiles to be used then that would suggest taht the Arbalet radar cannot perform the function of guiding the missiles.

I still believe this could be a package for the old radio command guided ATAKAs, because it hasn't the stereo optical devices on stubbed wings like they were presented before with the ATAKAs ATGMs armed.

Stereo optical devices are not needed for the guidance of Atakas or Shturms or Krisantemas. I rather suspect those optical systems were for 3D recording weapons launches of the pylons to test weapon separation and determining the effect of the rotor downwash in different flight conditions so such effects could be allowed for by the aiming computer calculations. (note if in the hover an unguided rocket dips as it passes through the rotor wash then that information added to the aiming calculation that includes angle of launch and range of the rocket and distance to the target etc should make unguided rocket fire much more accurate, but can only be determined by looking at very good footage of real launches.)

But this one has a turret to move the black ball and also its very obvious that on this picture its a EO ball, you can even see the lense.

It might be an independent thermal optical system for the pilot to enable him to see the ground below the aircraft and nearby, which he can't see with NVGs, for landing at night or low level flying, to free up the main optics ball for the gunner.

The black thimble on the Mi-28N and Mi-24/35 has a radio wave transmitter in the 35GHz range... it is not a radar as such though it operates at MMW radar frequencies.

If that extra black ball was to allow command guided Shturm and Ataka and Krisantema missiles to be used then that would suggest taht the Arbalet radar cannot perform the function of guiding the missiles.

Ka-52 doesn't have radio command antenna as Mi-28 or Mi-24/35. It was intended to use laser guided Vikhr or later Hermes ATGMs. Krizanthema have laser guidance option and as I know Ataka also get it, so radio command antenna is not necessary for Ka-52. This misterious second ball is present only in the second 062 and the third 063 prototype. Other choppers don't have it.

For Arbalet it was said it have air to surface missile control mode, so maybe it could lock a target and than guide a missile to it. Tracking radars in the eighties were capable to lock target and locate missile for SACLOS radio guidance. It only need additional transmitter to send radio commands to missile.

GarryB wrote:

Stereo optical devices are not needed for the guidance of Atakas or Shturms or Krisantemas. I rather suspect those optical systems were for 3D recording weapons launches of the pylons to test weapon separation and determining the effect of the rotor downwash in different flight conditions so such effects could be allowed for by the aiming computer calculations. (note if in the hover an unguided rocket dips as it passes through the rotor wash then that information added to the aiming calculation that includes angle of launch and range of the rocket and distance to the target etc should make unguided rocket fire much more accurate, but can only be determined by looking at very good footage of real launches.)

The stereo optical device for guidance that i have mentioned is based on what the photographer has put as disription under the photo on "russianplanes.net"
Also this stereo optical devices are only seenable above ATAKA containers and never above unguided S-8 pods or equipped on armament with only unguided missiles.
So i think he could be right that this has something to do with the ATGMs instead of unguided missiles, also the dragdown wouldn't matter on ATGMs and still only this armament has them (sometimes).

But this one has a turret to move the black ball and also its very obvious that on this picture its a EO ball, you can even see the lense.

It might be an independent thermal optical system for the pilot to enable him to see the ground below the aircraft and nearby, which he can't see with NVGs, for landing at night or low level flying, to free up the main optics ball for the gunner.[/quote]

There are other pictures where you can see the black painting on this second ball, and it doesn't look professional enough to have anything to do with Objectives. It realy looks same disgusting painted as on Hinds Radio wave transmitters.

Maybe this is better sided pictures

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/1/1/3/2139311.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/0/3/2087300.jpg

If this is realy an EO Ball than they should fire they guy who painted this EO ball in this disgusting matt and rough paint.

PS: I guess the Image script is terminated

Ka-52 doesn't have radio command antenna as Mi-28 or Mi-24/35. It was intended to use laser guided Vikhr or later Hermes ATGMs. Krizanthema have laser guidance option and as I know Ataka also get it, so radio command antenna is not necessary for Ka-52. This misterious second ball is present only in the second 062 and the third 063 prototype. Other choppers don't have it.

Even the modified Mi-8/17 and Ka-29s that can carry Shturm and Ataka have the thimble command transmitter... and it basically replaced the old white transmitter used for the AT-2 Swatter before it.

That dark ball under the pilots position, I seem to remember was fitted on helos that had the experimental roof mounted optical ball. Perhaps they have moved the main optics and left the old optics there to see if they could still work together?

My understanding was that the rotor downwash caused too much vibration with the roof mounted optics ball, so it would not make sense to move the small black ball to the roof instead... especially if it is for the pilot as the pilot would be more interested in optics that allowed a view under the aircraft (which is blocked by the cockpit) rather than above.

The new Shturms/Atakas/Krisantemas with laser beam riding guidance should be able to be guided by existing Ka-50 and Ka-52 aircraft.

For Arbalet it was said it have air to surface missile control mode, so maybe it could lock a target and than guide a missile to it. Tracking radars in the eighties were capable to lock target and locate missile for SACLOS radio guidance. It only need additional transmitter to send radio commands to missile.

The radar can track ground and aerial targets so it should be able to track both the ground target and the outgoing missile. A coded pencil beam directed at the outgoing missile could be used to send flight commands, but the addition of the laser beam riding could be used to simply point the laser at the target and let the missile use that beam to fly to the target. With tracking of the missile and the target by radar you could even do clever stuff like directing the laser beam 20m above the target and then dropping the laser onto the target to shape the trajectory of your missile and prevent the target from detecting the laser till the last second, with a bonus of a diving top attack terminal attack profile.

The stereo optical device for guidance that i have mentioned is based on what the photographer has put as disription under the photo on "russianplanes.net"
Also this stereo optical devices are only seenable above ATAKA containers and never above unguided S-8 pods or equipped on armament with only unguided missiles.

Stereoscopic cameras give a 3D view... in other words they create depth perception... you can use the two films to calculate distance. You wouldn't need one on every pylon for that to work, so if you are going to mount it on a pylon then it makes sense to mount it on an Ataka launcher pylon because it already has quite a bit of wiring for the 4-6 ataka missiles it carries so adding two video feed lines and two extra power cables wont be a problem. With a standard pylon there is much less wiring, plus rocket pods tend to have a lot more flame and soot during launch which could render any footage useless.

So i think he could be right that this has something to do with the ATGMs instead of unguided missiles, also the dragdown wouldn't matter on ATGMs and still only this armament has them (sometimes).

The only issue with ATGMs would be clean separation and watching the launches during different manouvers to determine if the missiles are being damaged during launch in different flight conditions to establish the launch limitations of the weapons.

You don't want your pilots to find that if they launch missiles in a 2g turn that sometimes the missile hits the side of the launch tube as it leaves and clips off a stabiliser fin or something.

There are other pictures where you can see the black painting on this second ball, and it doesn't look professional enough to have anything to do with Objectives. It realy looks same disgusting painted as on Hinds Radio wave transmitters.

Yet it appears to be a complete sphere, while the Hind and Havoc had elongated thimble type systems.

If this is realy an EO Ball than they should fire they guy who painted this EO ball in this disgusting matt and rough paint.

Perhaps these photos are of the old model helos with roof mounted optics that have been moved but the pilots ball has not been moved. Perhaps it is roughly painted because it was only ever a place holder, and not the actual optical system till they work out the main optics ball position.

Yellow 62 is a very low number.. this is an old aircraft/prototype.

This is White 61



You can see the ball under the pilots position with the nose mounted radar and roof mounted optics for the weapon officer.

They have had a wide range of optics and sensor arrangements for testing, but to make sense this black ball would need to be present on all helos equipped for the Ataka, which it doesn't.

Ataka/Shturm/Kristantema don't need a stereo optical system.

Unofficial report about "Rostvertol" preparing to assemble Ka-52's from knock down kits sourced from the "Progress" plant...up to now the only place to assemble Ka-52's

Ka-52 "Rostvertol"?
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/438149.html

Cyberspec wrote:Unofficial report about "Rostvertol" preparing to assemble Ka-52's from knock down kits sourced from the "Progress" plant...up to now the only place to assemble Ka-52's

Ka-52 "Rostvertol"?
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/438149.html

Interesting. How many Ka-52 RuAF receive in 2012? It was said Eastern military district got them. So maybe this year we will see Ka-52 from Rostvertol and from Progress. The number will increase quite quickly.

Apparently only 4 were delivered, which is curios since for 2011 the number was 12 I think.
Maybe they have a number almost ready for delivery, or maybe the Rostvertol move is a result of this production issue.

Ka-52 Arbalet Radar view

Great Arbalet photos. It seems pilot could fly in night only with radar picture. Great resolution.

Where did you found this pictures and are there more informations about it?

Werewolf wrote:Where did you found this pictures and are there more informations about it?

They were posted a few weeks ago on a obscure Russian forum (tech themed). Looks like they're originally from some video. And no I don't have any further info.

2 new Ka-52's: 41 + 43 a few days ago at Rostvertol



Source: aviaforum.ru & airforce.ru

Some interesting video stills

GarryB you have stated earlier in this topic that the Arbalet could probably detect incoming MANPADS at distances about 5km away. Do you have sources or links to the Thread Detecting and Classifying performance of the Arbalet, would appreciate for such informations?

I think Arbalet as MMW radar could detect MANPAD from frontal direction, where radar look. But Ka-52 is equipped with with MAWS sensors for round the clock detection of incoming missiles as part of ESM suit, which than launch chaffs and flares and DIRCM against missiles. If I'm correct Ka-52 will soon also get radar jammer for protection against AMRAAM missiles.

I know about the MAWS at least all new russian helos have them, but i just wandered about the statement of GarryB, for example the Mi-28 Arbalet uses both CMW and MMW radars in once so one is for surveillance the other for FCR,ground mapping and following, so the surveillance should be able to rotate to cover 360° or it is just kind a lack of surveillance.

Would still be interested in sources about the ability of detection performance of Arbalet.

5km seems a bit much, given Arbalat's size and performance with much larger objects.

IT is possible I guess though, even short range AD-assets trained vs ATGMs, and those are tiny.