Russian-Made Crash Notification

sepheronx wrote:Vann

Russian aerospace industry isnt at fault for this, added in, Russian military is one of the top highest paying jobs now in Russia, especially on state controlled side of things.

This has more to do with years of neglect of proper maintenance, mixed in with far more rapid training operations happening. These Tu-95's are old. Add in, if they had proper maintenance before, then I doubt they would be this problematic now.

The areas to look at are both the training and the repair plants/maintenance facilities. New Russian jets rarely get these issues, besides the recent Su-34, and most modern Russian jets are of high quality. It boils down to who and where the maintenance is being performed. Maybe more money is needed, maybe they need to contract out repairs to a private company, maybe they need better training and new facilities.

They're not that old. They were built in the 80s.

They have to hold on for another 10-15 years or so; because that's how long it will take for the PAK-DA to start getting into service in numbers; the PAK-DA being a direct successfor to the Tu-95.

Restarting production of the Tu-160 won't help that much as the Tu-160 is not a replacement for the Tu-95 but a complement to it. You can change the ratio to be more in favour of the Tu-160 by building new Tu-160s and retiring some of the oldest Tu-95s; but you can't change the ratio too much - these are fundamentally different aircraft, used in different ways, based in different parts of the country.

AFAIK most of the crashed aircraft in RU air force had label ''Made in USSR''.

This is basically wear and tear. Solution is simple: keep retiring old and keep buying new.

Svyatoslavich wrote:

Vann7 wrote:Russia have more Accidents with military and planes that all other world nations combined..
today ANOTHER..

Fortunately you are wrong, and the number of accidents in the VVS is not alarming at all, it is quite normal for a force of its size and operating in an huge country with extreme climate conditions and few infrastructure in vast areas. Russia lost 7 military aircraft this year; the US 10 (counting not only USAF, but also USN and USMC); and India 11. What is worrying is the fact that 2 Tu-95 crashed almost one after another, specially considering that it used to be extremely reliable until now (almost no crashes in decades).
Here is a good article (in Spanish, but I count that anyone knows how to use an online translator) of all lost military aircraft in the world this year up to July 1st:
http://charly015.blogspot.com.ar/2015/07/accidentes-2015-primera-mitad-de-2015.html
It includes two US UCAV, which I have excluded from my account above (I am counting only manned aircraft), apart from adding the most recent crashes to Russia and US after July 1st.

Just this year..

in just half a year.. 6 crashes... this is not normal.. this is ridiculous..

Su-24 in Khabarovsk region 6th of July 2015
MIG29 in Krasnodar region 3rd of July 2015
MIG29 in Astrakhan region 4th of
June 2015
Su 34 in Voronezh region 4th of June 2015
Tu-95 in Amur region 8th of June 2015

and now this
Tu 95 today....

and the above list does not include helicopter crashes.. too..

Please show me the American US Armed Forces plane crashes in 2015..   In Non Warzone ..  and compare that with the Russian accidents.. in Russia territory. and you will see
a Huge Difference.. and this is not mentioning that Americans have a much larger airforce ,and fly more missions and have more planes than Russia in operations all the time.


And then you have Russian Soldiers die all the time in training and practice in peace times.. or just sleeping in their barracks.. because their building collapse.. this things never happens in any other part of the civilized world.. Go mention any time Americans or any NATO soldiers died in US or Europe..in a non warzone.. because their building collapsed?  Thats ridiculous.

I like Russian hardware.. as much as anyone who visit the forums.. but trying to defend incompetence is non sense. The Russia Government have a real serious issue with quality controls.. not only in their planes but in their defense industry. infrastructure.. and their Space industry too..    

So my question is How many more planes needs to crash and pilots to die ,for the Russian
Government to do something about it? This is not normal.. This is actually really terrible..

The civilians industry.. Airports in US and Europe do thousands of times ,more travels in plane
than Russia military does.. and you don't see any month a plane crash because of malfunction
or an equipment.

It should be scary to be a pilot in Russia today ,knowing you have a real possibility of having a fatal accident. for the poor quality controls.. of your country.  And i suspect this is connected with the incompetence and the Russian Government.. Russia could have the world best Scientist and Engineers.. But their Managers and leadership is truly incompetent.. and it can sink the whole morale of the RUssian armed forces ,if this crashes continues every month or every couple of week.

What is worrying is the fact that 2 Tu-95 crashed almost one after another

So even you admits ,it is scary.. because it is.. You can have the best planes in the world.. the most secure and safe.. but if you have really bad quality controls ,when they need repairs ,the technicians for leaving early their jobs will just not do things the way they should..and cut corners.. Quality controls is a problem of lack of Supervision ,lack of motivation employees to do right their job and Bad Management..

What is really annoying about all this.. is that i see this ..Again.. and again and again.. and then again and again and again.. Poor management everywhere in RUssia.. as if Russia leadership was all incompetents and Putin have to do micromanage everything to get it right..  The whole Strike of Russian workers for not being paid at Vostochny Cosmodrome is just ANOTHER EXAMPLE of bad management in Russia.. So is as if the entire nation a big part of its management is mediocre at best or corrupt. And still have the bad habits of the Soviet Times
that there was ... no motivation for anyone working for the government to do anything since they will be paid anyway .

The next video ,while i don't agree with everything said by the journalist ,he shows exactly
example of how it was under soviet union for workers under government controlled business.. People not caring for doing anything since they will be paid anyway. a quick example of how bad leadership and managing ,can directly affect a service to others.



I really think ,there are still soviet style bad habits in today RUssia ,difficult to change.. that affect the services they do to others.. including security and safety in the defense industry and military. And perhaps could only be fixed with privatization of the defense industry ,where performance can affect the salaries of its employees or even lose their jobs. so there is
a pressure on people to be more competitive and efficient..

GarryB wrote:If you think Russia can get Boeing to make aircraft for them and that will mean they will never crash because Boeing is in a democracy where workers care about their products and don't just turn up for work each day to make sure they keep getting paid then you are wrong. the only planes that can't crash are the ones in museums that never fly.  Which are totally useless for any air force.

A majority of air crashes actually involve aircraft manufactured by Boeing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Boeing_747

Vann7 wrote:in just half a year.. 6 crashes... this is not normal.. this is ridiculous..

An explaination of what additional factors cause crashes, especially intensive training. http://in.rbth.com/blogs/2015/06/04/why_the_indian_air_force_has_a_high_crash_rate_43501.html

Vann7 wrote:

Purely RI-DI-CU-LOUS.

And purely ANA-CHRO-NIC.

Keep this crap out of me.

Please, do not remind how the 80's were mentally dangerous. I was mentally fucked by the 80's :archives:

GarryB wrote:Yeah... you are right... Russia has a problem...  

Indeed, they're russian...

If in doubt, blame russia....

Crash landing in Chelyabinsk

An Antonov An-12 military transport plane has made an emergency landing at the Urals airport of Chelyabinsk after the failure of three engines, a source told TASS on Friday.

“The crew of the An-12 plane en route from Omsk to Moscow has decided to make an emergency landing at the airport of Chelyabinsk after the failure of three out of four engines,” the source said.

“The plane landed safely. No one of the seven crew and seven passengers was injured,” the source added.

Officials at the Central Military District have given no comments on this report.

The failure of 3 engines out of 4.

What are the chances?

flamming_python wrote:The failure of 3 engines out of 4.

What are the chances?

Just wild speculation on my part, but what are the changes someone is sabotaging aviation fuel for the VVS? Not that hard I guess, considering the long chain from refinery to bases. And the last Tu-95 crash was also due to all engines failing in flight.

flamming_python wrote:The failure of 3 engines out of 4.

What are the chances?

once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is sabotage...

Just a guess. Someone is skimming off some of the fuel somewhere. And replacing the missing %age with some sort of shit?

Or a fault in the purification process?
Either way, heads should roll.

Teshub wrote:

flamming_python wrote:The failure of 3 engines out of 4.

What are the chances?

once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is sabotage...

With all the recent crashes, there has to be some kind of sabotage. Maybe someone wants to hurt Russian pilots or maybe someone wants to hurt Russian military exports.

Firebird wrote:Just a guess. Someone is skimming off some of the fuel somewhere. And replacing the missing %age with some sort of shit?

Or a fault in the purification process?
Either way, heads should roll.

I read somwhere(I think it was Tass, I don't remember correctly) that someone was stealing fuel from Russian fuel deposits.

Russian rafineries produce all fuels according to high quality Euro standards as they also export it to EU. RuAF buy the same fuel as all others. There is no other option than sabotages, so the RuAF, GRU and FSB will have to find those saboters and to check all fuel they have and to check quality of fuel of any truck before it is pumped in the plane.

flamming_python wrote:The failure of 3 engines out of 4.

What are the chances?

More than someone could think. For example on august 6 2005 an ATR-72 crashed in the waters in the Tyrrhenian sea first because the ground crew mounted on board a fuel system of the ATR-42, in this way the system read a fuel amount very much larger than the real. The aircraft did not receive the full amount of fuel and ended in the sea waters. In addition, the pilots, maybe because of the emotional stress of the situation, not properly applied the requirements of the ATR-72 manual. So, they sank at sea. 16 dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuninter_Flight_1153

Giulio wrote:

flamming_python wrote:The failure of 3 engines out of 4.

What are the chances?

More than someone could think. For example on august 6 2005 an ATR-72 crashed in the waters in the Tyrrhenian sea first because the ground crew mounted on board a fuel system of the ATR-42, in this way the system read a fuel amount very much larger than the real. The aircraft did not receive the full amount of fuel and ended in the sea waters. In addition, the pilots, maybe because of the emotional stress of the situation, not properly applied the requirements of the ATR-72 manual. So, they sank at sea. 16 dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuninter_Flight_1153

OK, but what are the chances that both a Tu-95MS and an An-12, which are very different aircraft with completely different systems, in a very short time frame, have failure in 3 or 4 of their engines simultaneously? I really think it is impossible, it is extremely unlikely that these crashes are due to technical reasons.

I think no correlation between the two things.

its getting ridiculous now

Mi-28N helicopter crashed doing "idiotic maneuvers" (airshow).

these airshows are starting to cost hundreds of millions in lost equipment and for what?

Prince Darling wrote:its getting ridiculous now

Mi-28N helicopter crashed doing "idiotic maneuvers" (airshow).

these airshows are starting to cost hundreds of millions in lost equipment and for what?

For earning millions over millions, you genius...