Su-30 for Russian Air Force

dino00 wrote:A new version of the Su-30SM fighter is being created in Russia

The upgraded Su-30SMD will receive a modern engine from the Su-35

Moscow. July 13. INTERFAX - A new modification of the multi-purpose Su-30SM fighter is being developed in Russia, a source in the aviation industry told Interfax.
      "The Sukhoi OKB has started development work (OCD) to create a modernized fighter under the code Su-30SMD. This modification will receive the most modern engine AL-41F-1C (product 117C), which is now installed on production Su-35 aircraft", - said the agency interlocutor.
      According to him, these works are carried out jointly with the Irkut Corporation, which mass-produced Su-30SM fighters.
      “The test flights of the Su-30SMD with the new engine should take place in 2020. According to the results of the implementation of the RCD, accordingly, a decision will be made whether to equip all combat fighters of this type with this engine,” the agency source said.

https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=512637&lang=RU

Russia will have 3 great suckhoi.
The AL-41F-1C should get cheaper.

It reminds me of the "super" Sukhoi modernisation proposed for the indian Su-30 MKI

[quote="Rodion_Romanovic"]

dino00 wrote:A new version of the Su-30SM fighter is being created in Russia

The upgraded Su-30SMD will receive a modern engine from the Su-35

Moscow. July 13. INTERFAX - A new modification of the multi-purpose Su-30SM fighter is being developed in Russia, a source in the aviation industry told Interfax.
      "The Sukhoi OKB has started development work (OCD) to create a modernized fighter under the code Su-30SMD. This modification will receive the most modern engine AL-41F-1C (product 117C), which is now installed on production Su-35 aircraft", - said the agency interlocutor.
      According to him, these works are carried out jointly with the Irkut Corporation, which mass-produced Su-30SM fighters.
      “The test flights of the Su-30SMD with the new engine should take place in 2020. According to the results of the implementation of the RCD, accordingly, a decision will be made whether to equip all combat fighters of this type with this engine,” the agency source said.

https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=512637&lang=RU

Russia will have 3 great suckhoi.
The AL-41F-1C should get cheaper.

Why don't they participate in Su-35 production instead of Su30 SM upgrade instead of producing new Su30 SM for the Russian aviation?

william.boutros wrote:

Why don't they participate in Su-35 production instead of Su30 SM upgrade instead of producing new Su30 SM for the Russian aviation?

[/quote]

it is cheaper to get the same result

JohninMK wrote:Must take some skill. Pilot - Anatoly Kvochur

view for his cockpit

GarryB wrote:
I personally find it amusing to see the people state the MiGs are smaller and lighter and therefore not as useful as the bigger Sukhois, yet when it comes to aircraft carriers the reverse seems to be their mantra...

Not every ship in the Russian Navy needs to be a 20K ton cruiser or 40-50 ton multi hulled carrier, but just as logical not every Russian fighter needs extreme flight range and enormous size.

Might come as a shock to some but having 3,000km radius fighters can lead to fewer airbases placed further apart which results in poor coverage because Flankers are not twice as fast as Fulcrums so they might be able to fly over twice the distance they wont actually be able to protect twice the area...

wait, but you were always against ligth fighters and dinky 40ktons CVNs isnt it?

wait, but you were always against ligth fighters and dinky 40ktons CVNs isnt it?

If you can only get 48 fighter aircraft on your carrier it makes sense to go for 48 of the best most capable aircraft you can manage to build... the Su-33 has folding wings that fit into a space not much bigger than the Mig-33 so it is not a choice between 48 Flankers or 96 Fulcrums.

The Fulcrums were also rather more expensive because they were fully multirole, while the Flankers were much much simpler and cheaper.

If you were starting from a clean slate bigger carriers means bigger aircraft with longer effective range so you see further and can reach further... of course with their new carrier design with EMALS they can have inflight refuelling aircraft so range and endurance can be stretched beyond the size of the aircraft involved.

When talking about a land based air force having two aircraft with the same flight speed but one has almost double the range and double the practical armament, with a larger apature longer range sensors (radar and IRST) but it more expensive to operate it seems the bigger aircraft might do the job of several smaller aircraft and so work out cheaper.

But tell me, would giving police officers extra ammo for their pistols and larger fuel tanks in their cars be a good idea so you could halve the number of police officers operating in a particular area?

With bigger longer ranged aircraft you get better reach when needed but that does not mean you get better coverage especially when you can't afford to operate enough of them for full coverage.

Smaller lighter aircraft with the same flight speed and reduced payload and radar IRST performance means more aircraft in the air which means better coverage... there is an entire IADS collecting information about air targets so much of the time they wont even have their radars on, and they wont need to fly out of their areas of operation so lack of super long range would only be an issue when transferring from one place to another... where external fuel tanks and their inflight refuelling probes make it a non issue.

Not every job requires a super plane, so having Su-35s and Su-30s upgraded and also MiG-35s is useful and also much more affordable... especially if you can get all your Flankers using the same engines and the MiG-29 and MiG-35s sharing components too.

william.boutros wrote:

Why don't they participate in Su-35 production instead of Su30 SM upgrade instead of producing new Su30 SM for the Russian aviation?

Seems they want to unify them as much as possible. Apart from the common engine, there is talk about using the same avionics (as much as practicable)

The Su-30 is better for certain missions and I'm not sure about the price, but it should be cheaper to produce

Think of it as Sukhoi looking at the MiG-29M2 and the MiG-35 being unified in structure and design and thinking that is a good idea to improve logistics and operational costs and trying to turn the Su-30 into a surrogate two seat Su-35.

Sometimes two crew is better, and having one standard engine type across different but similar aircraft saves money.

If the Su-30 and the Su-34 and teh Su-35 and teh Su-57 can all use the same engine you just need one engine type to buy and one spare parts pool that all you units can dip in to... much simpler and cheaper.

Plus your ground crew need to learn just one engine schedule and don't need to retrain if they move airfields, or a different aircraft lands and needs work done.

just for info, sorry its the Su-30 MKI but interesting read.


https://hushkit.net/2019/07/20/flying-fighting-in-the-sukhoi-su-30-flanker-a-pilot-interview/

Nice parking in the background

~ 84 sukhoi parked without counting those that are hiden by the su30. Pretty impressive. Soon it will be the same but with only Su-30/35/57

Great picture!

Isos wrote:~ 84 sukhoi parked without counting those that are hiden by the su30. Pretty impressive. Soon it will be the same but with only Su-30/35/57

How do you know they're all Su-30's ?

Cyberspec wrote:

Isos wrote:~ 84 sukhoi parked without counting those that are hiden by the su30. Pretty impressive. Soon it will be the same but with only Su-30/35/57

How do you know they're all Su-30's ?

I said sukhois not su-30. IMO most should be su27.

Edit: looking again, maybe they are mig29s. If the bleu fighter parked on the top left of the airport is a sukhoi then the other ones lined up are smaller and should be migs.

From that distance... they could be Yak-130s...

Nice picture anyway....

Isos wrote:Nice parking in the background

~ 84 sukhoi parked without counting those that are hiden by the su30. Pretty impressive.  

84 "Sukhois" , why Shukois ??


This is Lípetsk airbase
In Lípetsk there are a reserve unit: 4020 ABR (Reserve Airbase)

The stored airplanes are MiG-29 and MiG-31. Also there are the decomissioned Su-27 of the own Lípetsk Center

Unitil 2013, here there were near 100 MiG-29 stored and also about 50 MiG-31BS from two regiments of Central Siberia (Omsk and Bratsk) decomissioned about 2002 or 2003
The MiG-31BS stored in Lipetsk were modernized to MiG-31BM (BSM) , and now there are stored other MiG-31 out of service  (probably remaining MiG-31DZ) after VKS gets the MiG-31BM

Also, about the half of MiG-29 were taken form Lípetsk for replace other MiG-29 in service with too many flying hours.


This is the last satellite image we can see parked in the store area:
https://www.google.es/maps/@52.633747,39.4637086,448m/data=!3m1!1e3

48 MiG-29
29 MiG-31
6 Su-27 and other fusselage (5 of those are the decomisioned 5 Su-27SM of Lípetsk Flanker squadron)
Previously , in 2015 , there were a total of one dozen of Flankers stored in Lípetsk , including the 5 Su-30 (Su-27PU) that were transfered  last year to 275 ARZ in Krasnodar for repairs/MLU and will return to service in near future


Before of 2000 , FACE treaty reported 266 MiG-23 and 96 MiG-29 stored in Lípetsk. MiG-23 were scrapped at the begining of this decade

In a satellite image of 2010 we still can see some MiG-23 on the left , and about 50 MiG-31 on the right
https://zoom.earth/#view=52.634424,39.456179,17z/layers=archive47

By 2014, only MiG-29 and MiG-31 , that will be send to modernization
https://zoom.earth/#view=52.632802,39.466567,17z/layers=archive1

Soon it will be the same but with only Su-30/35/57

The next thing to store in Lipetsk, will be Su-27, about 100 including Su-27P and Su-27SM


An later, probably the Su-27SM3 and MiG-29SMT that only were a stopgap,  if Russia cannot sell those to a smaller country

Flying & fighting in the Sukhoi Su-30 ‘Flanker’: A pilot interview

https://hushkit.net/2019/07/20/flying-fighting-in-the-sukhoi-su-30-flanker-a-pilot-interview/

https://www.aex.ru/news/2019/7/31/200222/

31 июля 2019 г., AEX.RU – Истребительный полк Западного военного округа получит партию истребителей Су-30СМ по государственному оборонному заказу с модернизированным двигателем. Об этом сообщает Минобороны России со ссылкой на пресс-службу Западного военного округа.

Партия истребителей планируется к поставке в 2021 году. Новые самолеты оснастят самыми современными двигателями АЛ-41Ф-1С.

На сегодняшний день подобные двигатели устанавливаются на серийные самолеты поколения 4++ Су-35С.

RuAF regiment in Tver in Western military district will in 2021 receive a batch of modernized Su-30SM with new AL-41F-1C engines.

It looks like there is a new contract for modernized Su-30SM.

So besides Su-35 engines, what else is being changed?

Also, is it new order for new planes or modernization of current? There is still to be more orders anyway.

miketheterrible wrote:So besides Su-35 engines, what else is being changed?

Also, is it new order for new planes or modernization of current?  There is still to be more orders anyway.

I thought they would get at least also the irbis-E radar of the su-35 and that they would unify the avionics and.the sensors between the 2 models (at least for new built Su-30SMD, no need to spend money replace the avionics that is quite modern anyway in already build Su-30SM).

Btw, do the Russian Su-30SM retain french and israeli.components present in the indian Su-30MKI?

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:So besides Su-35 engines, what else is being changed?

Also, is it new order for new planes or modernization of current?  There is still to be more orders anyway.

I thought they would get at least also the irbis-E radar of the su-35 and that they would unify the avionics and.the sensors between the 2 models (at least for new built Su-30SMD, no need to spend money replace the avionics that is quite modern anyway in already build Su-30SM).

Btw, do the Russian Su-30SM retain french and israeli.components present in the indian Su-30MKI?

The only thing was the HUD initially was French. No Israeli tech. After sanctions all new ones use Russian HUD

miketheterrible wrote:
The only thing was the HUD initially was French. No Israeli tech.  After sanctions all new ones use Russian HUD

Ah yeah, right.
This article from last year mention that the MFD and the HUD were initially from the french company thales, and the plan was to substitute them with either the components used in the su-35 or in the Su-57.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2018-09-15/russia-order-improved-su-30-flankers

Btw, would it be worth to put the Al-41F1S also in the next batch of Su-34, to unify the production?

Regarding radar, it is difficult to say. Upgraded Su-30SM will get more capable radar with longer range. For now it is not known, if it will be deeply upgraded Bars-R or they will instrall Irbis in it. More powerful AL-41 engines will give enough power for Irbis. I hope they will instal Irbis in it as it is well proven radar and already in production for Su-35 and with that no need for additional tests. I doubt, that deeply modernized Bars-R will be better than Irbis.

The first modernized Su-30SM1 fighters will be transferred to the troops as early as next year

The Ministry of Defense has already ordered the first batch of modernized multifunctional Su-30SM1 fighters from manufacturers, sources in the military department told Izvestia. The finalization of the aircraft was carried out taking into account the results of the first years of its operation and the experience gained during the operation in Syria. “Super Dry” received new engines and radars, which will make it more maneuverable and effective in battle. The first VKS machines will be received before the end of next year, and already in 2021, mass deliveries will begin. Over time, all aircraft of the Su-30SM series will be brought to the SM1 standard.

The first two Su-30SM1, which will arrive in the troops, are planned to be used for testing and training pilots, sources of Izvestia specified. Already in 2021, one of the VKS squadrons will switch to the latest fighters.

Another innovation is a powerful radar station with a phased antenna array H035 "Irbis". It is considered the most powerful airborne radar in the world and is capable of detecting an enemy at a distance of over 100 km.

- The upgraded aircraft has increased cruising speed, less fuel consumption, increased flight time. But it’s much more important that now the aircraft is unified with the Su-35 and this makes their repair easier and cheaper, ”military expert Anton Lavrov told Izvestia. - And the new radar will make the Su-30SM1 more effective in any combat conditions. It depends on the radar all the characteristics of the aircraft as an air fighter.

During the modernization, the aircraft also received new ammunition - in particular, now they can carry on board the KAB-250 adjustable bombs, as well as X-59MK2 air-to-surface missiles.

https://iz.ru/905526/roman-kretcul-aleksei-ramm-aleksei-kozachenko/povedenie-s-motorom-super-sukhie-smogut-letat-kak-vertolety

It's more like a Su-35D than a Su-30. They also need to use same materials and why not Su-57's paint for reducing rcs.