Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+88
archangelski
Hole
southpark
bolshevik345
Rodion_Romanovic
higurashihougi
Tsavo Lion
ATLASCUB
GunshipDemocracy
dino00
Nibiru
LMFS
marcellogo
Azi
Batajnica
Arctic_Fox
miketheterrible
franco
Benya
Isos
JohninMK
storm333
SeigSoloyvov
theking950
jaguar_br
d_taddei2
Book.
OminousSpudd
x_54_u43
r111
Backinblack
Neutrality
ult
Zivo
GJ Flanker
Kyo
KoTeMoRe
Dima
PapaDragon
mutantsushi
Project Canada
2SPOOKY4U
max steel
RTN
victor1985
Vann7
par far
kvs
Mike E
Cpt Caz
Werewolf
eridan
Strizh
magnumcromagnon
Hannibal Barca
AbsoluteZero
zg18
Deep Throat
Morpheus Eberhardt
mack8
TR1
flamming_python
Firebird
AlfaT8
xeno
Hachimoto
ahmedfire
Pyrrus
collegeboy16
Mr.Kalishnikov47
KomissarBojanchev
Sujoy
victor7
TheArmenian
Russian Patriot
George1
Cyberspec
Flanky
Pervius
medo
Viktor
nightcrawler
NationalRus
Austin
GarryB
sepheronx
Vladislav
Admin
92 posters

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9516
    Points : 9574
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  flamming_python Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:02 am

    Austin wrote:Sounds good , So does it have just Radar or even EO sensors.

    So know 3 UAV/UCAV under development

    5 T UAV
    1 T UAV
    20 T UCAV 


    ANy thing else ?

    From my mp.net megapost series.. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?233668-In-Moldova-they-now-officially-speak-Romanian&p=6968235&viewfull=1#post6968235
    NOTE: you will have to go to the link to my post on mp.net if you want to see the pics or other links I posted, because they don't seem to copy right.

    Here's a list of the main perspective UAVs in development, no pics nor much information for most of them, but google them up maybe you'll find something

    Inokhodets/Иноходец - 1 ton class UAV, 400km range (Tranzas)
    Altyus-Ml/Альтиус - 5 ton class UAV, +800 km range (Sokol/Tranzas)
    Okhotnik-B and Okhotnik-U/Охотник-У - heavy 20 ton class jet-powered UCAVs, up to 800km range (MiG/Sukhoi)
    Gonschik/Гонщик - fast jet-powered UAV class (?), 400km range (MiG)
    Albatross/Альбатрос - helicopter UAV, 50km range (Kamov)
    Corsair/Корсар - short-range UAV, 50km range (Vega)
    Roller/Роллер - helicopter UAV, 50km range (Mil?)

    Here's a model of what might be Altyus-Ml https://servimg.com/image_preview...=25&u=17812518
    A model of what's believed to be Sokol's supersonic UAV project http://img3067.imagevenue.com/img.ph..._122_559lo.jpg
    There's also an unnamed project on the creation of a UCAV on the basis of the PAK-FA; so something like the beggining of a 6th generation aircraft I'd imagine although still a long way from it.

    Now as for current UAVs;

    http://missiles2go.ru/2012/11/13/uvs-tech-2012_1/ -
    http://missiles2go.ru/2012/11/13/uvs-tech-2012_2/ - Russian UAVs at the UVS-tech 2012 exhibition
    http://igorrgroup.blogspot.co.nz/201...vs-part-1.html - a slightly out of date summary of small man-launched UAVs and small helo UAVs mostly; among which we can see some innovations such as UAVs that fold out from something like an RPG tube (edit: it's a Smersh-launched one - the T90-11)
    http://roboair.ru/air-400x---carrier - nearly 2-metre wide crazy UAV complexes; they are launched from truck-trailer command-posts
    https://servimg.com/image_preview...209&u=15113927 - Dozor UAV variant
    https://servimg.com/image_preview...208&u=15113927 - Danem UAV
    http://www.network54.com/Forum/21183...?action=signup - Lutch UCAV

    Some recent UAV classes enterring service:

    http://lenta.ru/news/2012/10/09/uavs/ - Orlan-10 UAVs (< 100km range UAV class, up to 50 units)
    http://enics.ru/product?product_id=3 - Eleron-Z UAVs (34 are being bought)
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/658798.html - assembly of Israeli UAVs in Russia (OK, so they're not Russian ;P); 10 Searcher-2 and 27 Birdeye-400 complexes

    Also a couple UAV projects with the UAE.. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?233668-In-Moldova-they-now-officially-speak-Romanian&p=6972848&viewfull=1#post6972848

    There are two UAV-related projects with the UAE AFAIK. The first is the joint Russo-UAE venture on the creation of a helicopter UCAV on the basis of the Berkut VL ultra-light helicopter (http://www.aviationunion.org/news_second.php?new=101).

    The secound is the Russian purchase of an unnamed UAV from the UAE.

    From what I can gather, the two projects are unrelated (http://www.navaldrones.com/Berkut-VL-UCAV.html), but they do seem to involve the same UAE company - Adcom. I gather it's their only UAV company.

    Now, why would they buy UAVs from a UAE company like Adcom, and also agree to a joint-venture where the same company will use a Russian helicopter as the basis for a new attack drone? The company must be pretty advanced, right?
    Right. You see, the UAE doesn't exactly have much of a home-grown military-industrial complex, much less a high-tech scientific base and engineer graduates every year.
    But what they do have is money, and lots of it; which they're busy investing. A lot of foreign specialists too, and expats - the country is basically built on them. They also have access to Western technology, and Western expertise/specialists - and here we come to the crux of the matter.
    Russia initially tried to aquire advanced Western UAV technology via Israel - but only got the stuff that's a generation behind. Now I suspect it's trying to slip around Western unwillingness on tech-transfer - by co-operating with a UAE company which perhaps does have access to such resources.
    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4343
    Points : 4423
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  medo Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:03 am

    Nice to see this new big twin engine UAV Altius. I hope it will be able to carry armament on hardpoints like Vikhr ATGMs or smaller laser guided bombs and rockets. With two engines it is strong enough.
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9516
    Points : 9574
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  flamming_python Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:29 am

    medo wrote:Nice to see this new big twin engine UAV Altius. I hope it will be able to carry armament on hardpoints like Vikhr ATGMs or smaller laser guided bombs and rockets. With two engines it is strong enough.

    Yup yup ^^

    With a selection between:
    Vikhrs as the general-purpose missile for most tasks
    Hermes-As for targets at longer ranges
    And perhaps S-25L/S-25LDs laser-guided rockets for cheap and cheerful fun at short-ranges where a good amount of explosive is needed.
    Morpheus Eberhardt
    Morpheus Eberhardt


    Posts : 1925
    Points : 2032
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:09 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Possibly Al'tius-M.

    The AFAR compartment is labelled.

    What does "БО" stand for?

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 IAnC5uZ

    It's apparently called Al'tair.
    TR1
    TR1


    Posts : 5435
    Points : 5433
    Join date : 2011-12-07

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  TR1 Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:44 am

    Bokovoi Obzor?

    Side view? Just guessing.
    Morpheus Eberhardt
    Morpheus Eberhardt


    Posts : 1925
    Points : 2032
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:10 am

    TR1 wrote:Bokovoi Obzor?

    Side view? Just guessing.

    Thanks.
    Flanky
    Flanky


    Posts : 192
    Points : 197
    Join date : 2011-05-03
    Location : Slovakia

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Flanky Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:48 pm

    Well now only to start produce it quickly and reach initial operational capability very soon.
    They need feed back to the industry all the experience they gain from actual missions of the vehicle.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40499
    Points : 40999
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:05 am

    Yup yup ^^

    With a selection between:
    Vikhrs as the general-purpose missile for most tasks
    Hermes-As for targets at longer ranges
    And perhaps S-25L/S-25LDs laser-guided rockets for cheap and cheerful fun at short-ranges where a good amount of explosive is needed.

    If its mission is high to medium altitude flight over very long range I would think light guided bombs carried internally would be the ideal payload.

    Some sat and laser guided FAB-50 bombs would be ideal for high precision strikes. Quite a few could be carried internally with no addition to drag.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:04 am

    Soldiers and UAVs operators fighting forest fires:

    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18513
    Points : 19016
    Join date : 2011-12-23
    Location : Greece

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  George1 Fri May 30, 2014 2:34 pm

    Russia May Begin Constructing Advanced Military Drones in 2014 – Defense Ministry

    KAZAN, May 29 (RIA Novosti) – Russia may begin to develop advanced unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UAV) with longer flight endurance in 2014, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov told reporters Thursday.

    "We are ready to consider starting a development work this year with plans to complete it and move on to the official tests or experimental military use of future devices in 2017," Borisov said.

    The project is being developed by the Ministry of Defense together with the Kazan-based Sokol company, recently renamed after prominent Russian aircraft designer Mikhail Simonov. The deputy minister noted that the company had listened to critical comments, and in the past year and a half the program was revised and positive changes are already noticeable.

    "I am convinced that all of the components for the future project and the results of the research work, which is almost finished, may allow us to start the development with minimal risk. We have already decided that we will start our work this year," Borisov stated.

    The deputy defense minister stressed that reconnaissance and assault drones are in high demand today, and that the Russian Ministry of Defense pays special attention to this area.

    In the future, UAVs will be able to solve strategic military problems due to their stealth and greater combat stability compared to manned aircraft, Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force Lt. Gen. Viktor Bondarev said.

    The Russian Defense Ministry said on May 20 that it would spend some $9.2 billion on UAVs in the period to 2020, and that defense experts would train the country’s soldiers to operate those drones.
    Viktor
    Viktor


    Posts : 5796
    Points : 6429
    Join date : 2009-08-26
    Age : 44
    Location : Croatia

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Viktor Fri May 30, 2014 5:56 pm

    We have a date for the ultimate beast  thumbsup 

    Russian attack UAV weighing 20 tons made its first flight in 2018
    avatar
    Strizh


    Posts : 131
    Points : 130
    Join date : 2014-05-07

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Strizh Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:15 am

    Any idea which type of UAV they used to track down the Ukrainians?
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Austin Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:11 pm

    Russian UAV/UCAV Program ( via Air International July /Pitor )

    https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/15/54/62/79/russia11.png
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Austin Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:45 pm

    So is Gonshchik and OKhotnik supersonic UCAV ?
    avatar
    eridan


    Posts : 188
    Points : 194
    Join date : 2012-12-13

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  eridan Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:13 pm

    the image itself says they're not. 1000-1100 km/h top speed, so they're high subsonic.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:23 am

    eridan wrote:the image itself says they're not. 1000-1100 km/h top speed, so they're high subsonic.

    Yes, they're only slightly slower than Mach 1.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40499
    Points : 40999
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:32 pm

    The technical term for aircraft able to fly at 1,100km/h is transonic... they should be able to fly supersonically in a dive...
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Austin Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:37 pm

    Why not make it supersonic , Why keep it transonic ?
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40499
    Points : 40999
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:54 pm

    Why not make it supersonic , Why keep it transonic ?

    Ask yourself why not make the Yak-38 supersonic, or AWACS aircraft supersonic... or indeed the Su-25 supersonic.

    Just looking at the information on the page that came with that chart the engines being used are RD-33s but without afterburners. This makes them lighter and simpler and likely cheaper. It also reduces their thrust and their IR signature.

    When developing an aircraft you need to decide on its parameters... like speed, altitude, range performance. All these factors are effected by weight and available space and today RCS and IR signature are aspects as well.

    Just look at the difference between a U-2 spyplane and an SR-71 spyplane... both have very similar missions, though ironically the U-2 flew over enemy air defences, while the SR-71 flew down borders when it was no longer possible to fly over air defences and remain inside the atmosphere.

    The design of the SR-71 is completely different and focused almost completely on speed.

    I am sure the Russians likely have some secret UAVs that also focus on high speed to slip in and out of enemy territory, but I suspect these UCAVs and UAVs are more intended to loiter for long periods on station in places it would not be safe to send manned aircraft.

    higher speed would not make the aircraft that much safer but will shorten time on station and also likely require different wing shapes and aerodynamic shapes too.

    High drag bumps and bits that stick out... like EO balls and various external antenna can be used on subsonic aircraft but produce unnecessary drag on a supersonic aircraft.

    Long story short achieving supersonic speed would require specific design, while the roles intended for the aircraft might not gain much benefit from having supersonic flight speed... even for very short periods.

    Note changing to a low bypass jet with afterburners and fitting them to a Tu-95 would increase flight speed but totally ruin flight range yet would not allow supersonic strategic flight.

    The Tu-160 on the other hand can fly about 10,000km at supersonic cruise with its wings folded back in low drag flight.
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Austin Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:21 pm

    Thanks Garry , Since the 20 T UCAV was based on T-50 PAK-FA design as they mentioned it would be , I was expecting it to be supersonic.

    The Mig working on 5 T UCAV was a surprise I want expecting that.

    I think if they are going for high subsonic design then most likely the 5 T and 20 T UCAV will be very stealthy.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40499
    Points : 40999
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:16 pm

    Thanks Garry , Since the 20 T UCAV was based on T-50 PAK-FA design as they mentioned it would be , I was expecting it to be supersonic.

    It might weight 20 tons but look at the engine power... 52KN thrust per engine... that is the dry thrust of an RD-33 and would never allow a 20 ton aircraft supersonic flight speed.

    ... an RD-33 in AB generates about 82KN thrust per engine, with the dry thrust something like 50KN.

    I suspect these UAVs... well they are likely UACVs, will have low powered engines to improve fuel fraction for extended range and endurance at the expense of top speed and high agility.

    I think if they are going for high subsonic design then most likely the 5 T and 20 T UCAV will be very stealthy.

    Most UCAVs seem so far to have poor situational awareness.. which suggests to me the best way to design them is so that they can fly as high as possible and be hard to reach and detect. Having very high speed is one way to avoid interception, but when your job is to look at the enemy for long periods max speed is not so important and indeed counter productive.

    Regarding sanctions that is probably better discussed on an economics thread, but when push comes to shove most of the Ti being used for the F-35 is coming from Russia who corners the market in the material.
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Austin Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:22 pm

    If I am not wrong the 20 T UCAV uses  2 RD-33 engine in dry thrust.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40499
    Points : 40999
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:58 am

    Which is odd really because that could just as easily be Skate from MiG...

    The lack of afterburner however suggests perhaps much longer wings with a subsonic flight design.

    I hope they are working on optimised weapons for these aircraft... I would suspect a KAB-50 would be ideal from high altitude using laser homing, perhaps combined with satellite navigation to give very high accuracy. Very high accuracy would mean the combined high kinetic energy with a fairly decent HE capacity of 50kgs of HE should make it a very effective weapon able to destroy a vehicle without destroying the whole block. Equally it is a fairly small compact weapon that should be able to be carried in large numbers.
    avatar
    Austin


    Posts : 7617
    Points : 8014
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Austin Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:41 pm

    I think the Mig UCAV design of 5 T is Skat on Lite Diet.

    It is half the weight of Skat UCAV and carries half the weapon load and they mentioned in the article that they will take inputs from Skat.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:48 pm

    Austin wrote:I think the Mig UCAV design of 5 T is Skat on Lite Diet.

    It is half the weight of Skat UCAV and carries half the weapon load and they mentioned in the article that they will take inputs from Skat.

    I still don't understand why they cancelled the original Skat UCAV, I mean they gave T-50 PAK-FA program to Sukhoi, then they gave Sukhoi the UCAV contract, it's like they want Sukhoi to be overloaded with work and have Mig struggle to get funds...I know the Mig-35 is being funded but showing so much favoritism towards one design studio/bureau (Sukhoi) can't be healthy.

    Sponsored content


    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News - Page 10 Empty Re: UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Nov 16, 2024 3:56 pm