Russia's enemy countries

For the part that Stalin was ruthless and killed everyone who oppossed him is just another generalisation, yes he killed also innocent people but the absolute majority were Bolshewiks and the Cheka who genocided millions of slavic people.

And even Anatoli Wassermann a jew, aggrees with the most decisions to purge people, he studied the documents all signed of those which were purged by stalin.

Wheter nazi shot them to blame soviets or soviets and put their boots back on to blame on nazis...perhaps we shall never know because we would have to be there.

What I was trying to say was that a lot of polish population which lived during cold war prefers the times that used to be and is not hostile to Russia.

Unfortunetly the right wing party-and all the folowers of old silidarity are in power now and they show a lot of that anti-russian propaganda like Katyn and some of they young people dont know any netter amd believe in it (especially those with lower education).

However its not majority of the country since large number of population is getting sick of the western countries.
What about in russia? You can tell the truth lol, they dont look at Poland too kindly do they?
Lol

http://www.polishforums.com/poland-history-34/come-poles-like-russians-not-germans-66926/

Look at this for instance

@Werewolf

I agree there was a lot of ignorant western studies that just used over estimates to judge Stalin... and lots of mistranslations that led to figures of millions being killed during purges, but of course many of those who disappeared during the purges suddenly reappeared in the 1942-1943 period and were clearly not killed.

@Lombard

I think there is enough evidence to be pretty sure it was Stalin that had those Polish officers killed... but the real question is why would that dominate Russian-Polish relations in the 21st Century. At the end of the day Stalin was a Bstard who killed lots of Russians and he wasn't even Russian himself... he was Georgian... why don't the Polish nationalists hate Georgia?

GarryB wrote:@Werewolf

I agree there was a lot of ignorant western studies that just used over estimates to judge Stalin... and lots of mistranslations that led to figures of millions being killed during purges, but of course many of those who disappeared during the purges suddenly reappeared in the 1942-1943 period and were clearly not killed.

@Lombard

I think there is enough evidence to be pretty sure it was Stalin that had those Polish officers killed... but the real question is why would that dominate Russian-Polish relations in the 21st Century. At the end of the day Stalin was a Bstard who killed lots of Russians and he wasn't even Russian himself... he was Georgian... why don't the Polish nationalists hate Georgia?

Exactly! I've been saying this all along, the nationalists of Poland, Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania, Georgia all love to demonize Russia for the crimes of the Soviet Union but exclude their country's role in those very crimes, plus Stalin was an ethnic Georgian but you don't see them being hostile to Sakashvili or any other Georgian nationalists...which tells me that they're NATO agents against Russia. With the exception of Georgia, all those other countries mentioned also had large portions of their populations collaborating with the fascists of WW2, but how convient that they didn't mentioned that fact either.

Nationalism gets bad rep and I know why. There is no healthy love for a country and people any more , not like the one poets used to write. We have to put it above others, to blame someone, hate others and so on. No wonder why best patriots are the ones who live abroad.

Today lack of pragmatism in our politics is just killing my brain. Our president Grybauskaite(an ex KGB reservist if to believe some sources) is such a tool. She was screaming about sanctions against Russia, when our PM said that it would be like shooting our own foot. But she insisted. And now she doesn't want any sanctions.
Believe me people might be afraid of Russia but there is no anti Russian sentiment among populi, not when today Russians are coming with good intentions. It's just our gov working someone's job from our money, but what can we do, Maidan like revolutions don't lead to nothing good.

With the exception of Georgia, all those other countries mentioned also had large portions of their populations collaborating with the fascists of WW2, but how convient that they didn't mentioned that fact either.

This is likely part of it too... if they don't blame it all on Russia and Russians then they would have to take part of the blame for themselves.

It is funny that many in the west demand Russia apologise for its actions during WWII and the cold war like the nazis and the japanese did, but at the end of the day that is because most in the west equate communism as being as bad as nazism or japanese imperialism... ironic because what the west practises today is similar to nazism and imperialism and what it accuses communism of being...

[quote]It's just our gov working someone's job from our money, but what can we do, Maidan like revolutions don't lead to nothing good.[/uote]

It is ironic that in the west everyone claims this was all planned by Putin.. just like Georgias invasion of South Ossetia was planned by Putin.

When someone pro Russian suggests the west might have been involved with another colour revolution then that is just Russian paranoia....   

It gets ironic of course when the west overreacts with threats of sanctions because if they had planned the annexation of the Crimea their next step would be unrest in the Ukraine and invasion to take the pro Russian portion of the country and that would upset their plans to move NATO to Russias border (again).

All Russia really has to do is wait for the truth to come out like it did in Georgia and all the peacock BS from western politicians will fade away and the talk of sanctions will go away and the new status quo will remain... with Russia largely the winner for a nice change.

The only fly in the ointment is Ukrainian nationalists fermenting violence and forcing Russians in the Ukraine to have their own coup... which of course will be blamed on Russia starting all new claims for sanctions.

it will of course split the Ukraine and might cut off its access to the black sea but also get Russia direct access to a few volatile regions too.

I suspect the next free and fair election in the Ukraine will result in some common sense, but you can't be sure.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

GarryB wrote:@Werewolf

I agree there was a lot of ignorant western studies that just used over estimates to judge Stalin... and lots of mistranslations that led to figures of millions being killed during purges, but of course many of those who disappeared during the purges suddenly reappeared in the 1942-1943 period and were clearly not killed.

@Lombard

I think there is enough evidence to be pretty sure it was Stalin that had those Polish officers killed... but the real question is why would that dominate Russian-Polish relations in the 21st Century. At the end of the day Stalin was a Bstard who killed lots of Russians and he wasn't even Russian himself... he was Georgian... why don't the Polish nationalists hate Georgia?

Exactly! I've been saying this all along, the nationalists of Poland, Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania, Georgia all love to demonize Russia for the crimes of the Soviet Union but exclude their country's role in those very crimes, plus Stalin was an ethnic Georgian but you don't see them being hostile to Sakashvili or any other Georgian nationalists...which tells me that they're NATO agents against Russia. With the exception of Georgia, all those other countries mentioned also had large portions of their populations collaborating with the fascists of WW2, but how convient that they didn't mentioned that fact either.

Since i wrote a little from Poland's perspective...

How is Russian look at Poland then?
Is it prety hostile?
How do govt vs people feel?

Poland has not been a serious enemy country to Russia since the 17th century, maybe the 18th.

There is mostly a lot of bad feeling in Poland toward Russia, mostly because of WWII actions, and communist occupation until recently.

It may have been said, but if you are looking for a serious enemy country of Russia's, just look toward your south eastern border: China.

They have plenty of people, and I believe the Siberian population is declining. Is there enough soldiers and power in Siberia to deter a possible Chinese incursion? They have imperialistic designs on Taiwan, and various pacific islands. Who is to say Siberia won't catch their eye at some point?

DostoevskyRasputin wrote:
It may have been said, but if you are looking for a serious enemy country of Russia's, just look toward your south eastern border: China.

That's a myth perpetuated by the U.S. Department of Defense for the purpose of destroying both countries:

http://www.dod.gov/pubs/foi/International_security_affairs/china/09-F-0759theGreatSiberianWarOf2030.pdf

If China's such a threat to Russia then why are they (The PRC) so heavily dependent on Russia for arms contracts? Do a survey of all the military contracts between Russian and China in the last 10 years, and ask yourself if China wants to invade Russia so badly than why are they so heavily dependent on Russian jet engines for their jet fighters? In the 6 decade long dispute between the PRC and Taiwan, the PRC has yet to invade Taiwan, so let me ask you this question if China hasn't invaded a non-nuclear state like Taiwan, then why would the Chinese fight Russia which has a conventional military hundreds if not thousands of times more powerful as well as an advanced nuclear capability?

Poland is a threat to Russia, not because of the Polish military strength (lol no one's afraid of that) but because of the combined NATO military strength (which includes nuclear states like the UK and France that haven't signed the INF treaty, and have stockpiles of theater range nukes) as well as the proliferation of ABM bases which "were" strictly prohibited by both NATO and the now defunct Warsaw Pact up until the early 2000's. ABM base proliferation was prohibited mainly because both NATO and the Warsaw Pact saw that they were more likely to give one side the confidence to carry out a nuclear first strike, with the hopes that ABM bases would take care of the remaining retaliatory nukes.

China is not a threat to Russia, without Russia China would be looted out that are mutual interests to keep a bound against the NATO aggressions everyday, more and more bases are pressuring on Russia and China, as long US and NATO exists there will not be hostile behavior or policy from Russia to China or vice versa.

DostoevskyRasputin wrote:Poland has not been a serious enemy country to Russia since the 17th century, maybe the 18th.

It is now, since it entered NATO and is constantly lobbying for more hostile actions to be taken against Russia.

DostoevskyRasputin wrote:There is mostly a lot of bad feeling in Poland toward Russia, mostly because of WWII actions, and communist occupation until recently.

There's a tad more than that (too much to get into at the moment). But even so, I am truly astonished every time I hear/read the zest of some Poles engaged in Russia-hatred. Some Poles (emphasis on *SOME*) truly and honestly HATE Russians. I could never understand this really.
And to be honest - it really makes me sad.

DostoevskyRasputin wrote:It may have been said, but if you are looking for a serious enemy country of Russia's, just look toward your south eastern border: China.

I disagree. China is a very old country with a very long history. And a very 'wise' country as well.
I just don't see China acting as a cowboy, shooting its way into Russia. Your analysis is flawed here. You think of rising China in the context of a rising America in the past century. They are not the same. China might have some scores to settle with few people that haven't treated it well in the past, but I don't think China will go for world supremacy. At least not in the way the Americans do at the moment.

DostoevskyRasputin wrote:They have plenty of people, and I believe the Siberian population is declining. Is there enough soldiers and power in Siberia to deter a possible Chinese incursion?

Siberian population is in decline? Didn't know that.
And there wont be any Chinese incursion in Siberia. End of story.

DostoevskyRasputin wrote:They have imperialistic designs on Taiwan, and various pacific islands. Who is to say Siberia won't catch their eye at some point?

Imperialistic designs?!
On an island that used to be Chinese territory, populated to this day by Chinese people. Do tell more.
As for the "various Pacific islands", there is a dispute over them. Not only China claims those but also the Philippines, and Japan. And Taiwan (if you count it as a different country to China). My take on that is that those islands used to be Chinese, but the US gave them to Japan after WWII. But this is only my take on that, doesn't mean I'm right. Actually I might indeed be wrong, since I'm ignorant on the issue.

As for Siberia 'catching their eye at some point' - again, you assume that China acts like the US does. And that hasn't been proven thus far. Well, except for Tibet, but I blame that on the Communist doctrine of 'spreading the only good system' through any means necessary. Different from the system they have in place today which is communist only in name...

the middle kingdom wont dare to try anything funny with the bear's territory, thats suicide. The SEA region however is fair game.

macedonian wrote:Some Poles (emphasis on *SOME*) truly and honestly HATE Russians. I could never understand this really.
And to be honest - it really makes me sad.

99% percent of Poles I know hate Russians. Of course they are OK with Belarusians like my wife  
Almost all Lithuanians I know hate Polish and most of them hate Russians. But hey we don't like Latvians that much, we dislike Estonians, Serbs and we hate Brits, Americans, Jews. Anything happens, it's everyone else fault, not ours. Remember that!
Eastern European mentality in action. Still it's irrelevant when it comes to politics.

Werewolf wrote:China is not a threat to Russia, without Russia China would be looted out that are mutual interests to keep a bound against the NATO aggressions everyday, more and more bases are pressuring on Russia and China, as long US and NATO exists there will not be hostile behavior or policy from Russia to China or vice versa.

China has much wiser leadership now. Last time they got cocky they got their noses smashed in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict

My uncle who served in far east told me that there was not enough room to bury Chinese and they used bulldozers just to manage around the bodies. Of course how true is that I don't know, could be a myth same as lasers used there

macedonian wrote:

DostoevskyRasputin wrote:They have imperialistic designs on Taiwan, and various pacific islands.

Imperialistic designs?!
On an island that used to be Chinese territory, populated to this day by Chinese people. Do tell more.

Not only that, but Taiwan itself is still defined as the Republic of China and I believe still technically claims sovereignty over all of China.  All but some random Central American countries recognize the PRC as the government of China along with the "One China" policy, so there can be no imperialism, it is a matter of internal politics as far as the official stance of every relevant country.  

As for the "various Pacific islands", there is a dispute over them. Not only China claims those but also the Philippines, and Japan. And Taiwan (if you count it as a different country to China). My take on that is that those islands used to be Chinese, but the US gave them to Japan after WWII. But this is only my take on that, doesn't mean I'm right. Actually I might indeed be wrong, since I'm ignorant on the issue.

From my understanding, Japan does have a legit claim to the uninhabited rocks in question, just because they were never settled, developed, and so on, and were basically terra nullus.  What is really at stake is the EEZ waters around them, but historically Chinese certainly were fishing in these grounds, so the application of the generic guideline for EEZ to the rocks in question seems dubious in this case.  IMHO, China should agree to recognize Japan's rock in exchange for Japan agreeing that the rock doesn't extend Japan's EEZ and territorial waters any further west towards China, and maybe agreeing not to build anything on the rock, e.g. radar/SAM launchers.  AFAIK one or the other side had proposed a similar solution at one point, which wasn't well received by the other at the time, but that seems like the viable compromise if a solution is ever to be found.

As for Siberia... you assume that China acts like the US does. And that hasn't been proven thus far. Well, except for Tibet...

Tibet was long under Chinese sovereignty, the Lamas had long been approved by Beijing, this was long established.  So it was not just some random unaffiliated neighboring state, but a part of China that had not previously been subject to direct Communist rule.  That doesn't mean it's not a good idea for them to have some autonomy or be treated better, but the same would go for most parts of China.  The Dalai Lama does not even call for independence any more, but this Western mystique about Tibet that doesn't care to get into historical legal facts still defaults to that perspective.

Incidentally, Mongolia would have had similar status, except the USSR intervened to assure Mongolia's independence.  Tsarist Russia previously intervened to create autonomy for Mongolia, but China overturned that during the Russian revolution, only for USSR to turn it around definitively.  A bit like 888 war in Georgia/Abkhazia/S.Ossetia now that I think about it.

Lombard wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

GarryB wrote:@Werewolf

I agree there was a lot of ignorant western studies that just used over estimates to judge Stalin... and lots of mistranslations that led to figures of millions being killed during purges, but of course many of those who disappeared during the purges suddenly reappeared in the 1942-1943 period and were clearly not killed.

@Lombard

I think there is enough evidence to be pretty sure it was Stalin that had those Polish officers killed... but the real question is why would that dominate Russian-Polish relations in the 21st Century. At the end of the day Stalin was a Bstard who killed lots of Russians and he wasn't even Russian himself... he was Georgian... why don't the Polish nationalists hate Georgia?

Exactly! I've been saying this all along, the nationalists of Poland, Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania, Georgia all love to demonize Russia for the crimes of the Soviet Union but exclude their country's role in those very crimes, plus Stalin was an ethnic Georgian but you don't see them being hostile to Sakashvili or any other Georgian nationalists...which tells me that they're NATO agents against Russia. With the exception of Georgia, all those other countries mentioned also had large portions of their populations collaborating with the fascists of WW2, but how convient that they didn't mentioned that fact either.

Since i wrote a little from Poland's perspective...

How is Russian look at Poland then?
Is it prety hostile?
How do govt vs people feel?

But i meant:
Since i wrote a little from Poland's perspective...

How do RUSSIANS look at Poland then? (Not the oposite)
Is it prety hostile? How do govt vs people feel?

I don't think enemy states is as telling as enemy people. For instance, I do not know any Americans that hate Russia, but the US government certainly does. Just look what they did to Ukraine. They even proudly admitted spending 5 billion on this 'revolution'.


They do this so they can loot your country. They wan't Russia and all its resources. Right now they will settle for a piece of Russia's gas market to Europe.


Russia needs to pick better friends as these people will say they are your friend to your face then stab you in the back.


To simplify the question on who is Russia's enemy is pretty simple.....


Every single non-ZOG state is either friendly with Russia or indifferent.


Every single ZOG state hates Russia and makes moves to damage it.

Behrooz,

I am not a moderator here, but I should mention to you that one of the rules of this forum is that, before posting your first post, you should go to the "Member Introductions and Rules" section of the form, make a new thread there, and introduce yourself.

It's a bit late but not too late; you can go ahead and introduce yourself now.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Behrooz,

I am not a moderator here, but I should mention to you that one of the rules of this forum is that, before posting your first post, you should go to the "Member Introductions and Rules" section of the form, make a new thread there, and introduce yourself.

It's a bit late but not too late; you can go ahead and introduce yourself now.

Thank you. I did it.

This thread is not really about governments... it is more about general views of Russia and Russians by the general population.

I can say for instance that most Kiwis really don't know that much about Russia except what they learned in school about WWII and what they see on TV.

For a while there was lots of negative stuff about things falling apart and occasionally the NZ media mentions Russia invading this country or that country or blocking some invasion the US wants sanctioned by the UNSC or something... our media basically parrots CNN and BBC so little chance of impartiality here.

The vast majority have negative views because of ignorance.

At different times the views have changed from threat to pity... but rarely with any sympathy or empathy.

New Zealand is of course a long way away... and only 4 million people here...

In Iran the consensus on Russia and Russians is favorable. It could be even better and I think it will be now since the west proved the eastern suspicions about the west is more justified than ever. There is also trade in education which brings the two countries together on the street level.



Something that happened during WW2 in my fathers time. In Iran, there was UK, US and Russian troops stationed in Iran. The US troops were not respectful at all while the UK robbed the Iranians.


In my fathers neighborhood, a Russian soldier followed a Iranian woman home, busted in her house and raped her. When her husband got home he found her distressed and was very angry. He took her down the base and told them what happened. The General came out to talk to them.


The General lined up his men and had the woman point out her attacker. When she pointed him out the General shot him in the head without hesitation. This is how Russians handled bad behavior by their men in Iran. To make it short, the Russian army was the only army in Iran that handled bad behavior this way.


After the revolution in Iran the countries resources became nationalized. But Iran had no technology at all. Did not even know how to drill so they joint partnerships. Many US companies were still options but Russia won much of the initial bids. Not because of the cost, but because they sent Persian speaking negotiators.


Also, I do not think there is a single mentally stable Iranian that thinks Russians want to attack us. There is no people preparing for a Russian attack or to attack Russia.


I live in the US and I have heard Putin compared to Hitler many times and always referred to as a war monger on ZOG news agencies.


I would like to ask them, "what wars Putin started"? "Has he invaded another country and looted it"? "Is he listening to your phone calls"? "Is Putin overthrowing legitimate governments"?


I think that if you go to any country in the world were the people are not fed ZOG garbage from day one that the people would think of Russia between indifference or favorably.

Very interesting Behrooz.
Thanks for sharing your opinions and that WWII story.

@Behrooz It might sound funny to most but as a child my father used to take me down to Dunedin harbour to look at big ships when they came in to port and the first Russians I ever met were Russian sailors on fishing boats. My general impression of Russians and Soviets up until then was negative... they were on "our" side during WWII, but were the enemy now. They gave my father and I a large box of lollies (I think Americans call it candy). Sure I was easily bought, but the surprise at being told one thing and when you finally get to experience it first hand it is something totally different was quite a shock for a 7 year old. After that I stopped reading about M16s and F-16s and started learning about MiG-25s et al.

The more I learned the more I started to realise that if they were really the aggressors then their force structure would be different... the Soviet force structure of the cold war was very poor in terms of logistics... it was never prepared for a war to the English channel with armour... there simply wasn't enough trucks... plus the PVO was designed to defend Soviet and Warsaw Pact airspace, but unlike NATO airdefences that used more mobile systems like JSTARS and AWACS it would not have been able to expand quickly forward as the army moved. the Army has its own air defence forces, but as shown by NATO in Afghanistan and Iraq NATO was the force that was mobile and able to deploy almost anywhere, while the Soviet forces were prepared to defend their own airspace.

GarryB wrote:

@Behrooz It might sound funny to most but as a child my father used to take me down to Dunedin harbour to look at big ships when they came in to port and the first Russians I ever met were Russian sailors on fishing boats. My general impression of Russians and Soviets up until then was negative... they were on "our" side during WWII, but were the enemy now. They gave my father and I a large box of lollies (I think Americans call it candy). Sure I was easily bought, but the surprise at being told one thing and when you finally get to experience it first hand it is something totally different was quite a shock for a 7 year old. After that I stopped reading about M16s and F-16s and started learning about MiG-25s et al.

The more I learned the more I started to realise that if they were really the aggressors then their force structure would be different... the Soviet force structure of the cold war was very poor in terms of logistics... it was never prepared for a war to the English channel with armour... there simply wasn't enough trucks... plus the PVO was designed to defend Soviet and Warsaw Pact airspace, but unlike NATO airdefences that used more mobile systems like JSTARS and AWACS it would not have been able to expand quickly forward as the army moved. the Army has its own air defence forces, but as shown by NATO in Afghanistan and Iraq NATO was the force that was mobile and able to deploy almost anywhere, while the Soviet forces were prepared to defend their own airspace.

That's just it. Russians are not scary at all. I have heard the police can be quite brutal but that isn't any better in the US either.

You can listen to allot of propaganda about Russia, but the bottom line is that they unarguably haven't wronged another country in many years.

When asking western people about why Russians are so bad they usually spout on about Stalin and death camps and communism being bad etc... and if you think about it it was the Russians that suffered under all these things... so we should treat them like they are the bad guys.

They lost the cold war and their punishment... is democracy...