Russia - USA Relations

U.S. studying Russia's draft European security treaty - Kelly

RIA Novosti

07:29 02/12/2009 WASHINGTON, December 1 (RIA Novosti) - The United States is studying Russia's draft European security treaty, the State Department said Tuesday.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev proposed drawing up a new European security pact in June 2008, and Russia published a draft of the treaty on Sunday, sending copies to heads of state and international organizations, including NATO.

"President Obama received a letter from President Medvedev which contained the draft treaty," State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said.

"We're studying the proposal carefully, and we consider it to be an important contribution to the ongoing debate on European security, which has been taking place as part of the Corfu Process," he said.

The 17th Ministerial Council of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) opened in the Greek capital Athens on Tuesday. Its agenda includes discussions of Russia's draft.

At an informal meeting in June this year, the 56 OSCE member states' foreign ministers agreed to start a discussion on fundamental security issues. The discussions were named the Corfu Process after the Greek island that hosted the meeting.

"We believe any proposal must build on the existing body of commitments we have developed together over three decades, as well as central structures such as the OSCE and NATO. These commitments and structures have helped to ensure security in Europe," Kelly told a daily press briefing.

"We continue to embrace a comprehensive approach to security in Europe, which encompasses the political, military, economic, environmental, and human dimensions, and agree entirely with President Medvedev that we need to continue our efforts to adjust to new and emerging threats to European security," he said.

"We look forward to working with the Russian Federation and our other partners in Europe in the days and months to come to further elaborate an agreed approach on these important issues," the spokesman said.

Russia's draft security pact says, in particular, that "every Party shall be entitled to consider an armed attack against any other Party an armed attack against itself."

"In exercising its right of self-defense under Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, it shall be entitled to render the attacked Party, subject to its consent, the necessary assistance, including military," it says.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/12/mil-091202-rianovosti05.htm

Gotta love these thugs in the U.S. Not only do they stand by a convicted thief, but also despise those Governments & countries that don't fleece and fool their own countrymen. Did you guys see that cunt Hillary come on TV to shed a tear for Mr. Khodorkovsky? What a fukkin riot!

Hail To The Thief - The New York Times Defends Mikhail Khodorkovsky

By Stephen Lendman
1-1-11

On October 25, 2003, Khodorkovsky (below called MK) was arrested for tax evasion and corruption, dating from when the Soviet Union dissolved and state privatizations followed. "Behind every great fortune lies a great crime," explained Honore de Balzac. Billionaire Russian oligarchs, like MK, illegitimately amassed great fortunes, avoiding prosecution during Yeltsin's tenure (1991 - 1999).

Beginning in 1991, various socio-economic measures were implemented without public discussion or parliamentary approval. Most important were Yeltsin's personal directives, creating a billionaire aristocracy handed the economy's most important, profitable sectors, free of charge - literally a license to loot.

Changes began slowly under Vladimir Putin and Dmitry Medvedev, though not easily. The rot is so widespread and deep. Oligarchs like Boris Berezovsky fled to London, Moscow2, taking with them great fortunes. Others staying behind wish they'd after Medvedev announced during an October 2008 Council to Combat Corruption session that:

"Corruption in our nation has not simply become wide-scale. It has become a common, everyday phenomenon which characterizes the very life of our society. We are not simply talking about commonplace bribery. We are talking about a severe illness which is corroding the economy and corrupting all society."

As a result, prosecutions followed. Some 2009 examples against bureaucrats included:

-- Nevelsk Mayor Vladimir Pak's suspension and charge of embezzling 56 million rubles ($1.5 million);

-- two Ministry of Internal Affairs (MVD) Main Directorate officers detained on suspicion of accepting over $100,000 in bribes; and

-- MVD Lt. Col. Dmitry Luzgin charged with extorting $1 million from Russian Real Estate House management.

According to MVD figures, annual Russian corruption ranges from $20 - $40 billion. In 2006, Alexander Buksman, deputy general prosecutor first deputy, estimated annual corruption at $240 billion, involving business and bureaucrats. However, a combination of legal loopholes and close private-public alliances lets most offenses go unpunished.

Major Media Defend MK

On October 29, (four days after his arrest), a New York Times editorial headlined, "Putin's Old-Style KGB Tactics," saying:

"After laboring to project the image of a rational, law-abiding statesman, President Vladimir Putin of Russia has reverted to the vengeful violence of his old employer....(Arresting MK) was a serious mistake," citing market plunges "on the fear that the Kremlin was showing its true authoritarian colors."

An earlier August 13, 2003 Times editorial headlined, "Moscow Machinations," saying:

"....nobody knows for sure whether President Vladimir Putin is personally behind the sudden crackdown on the giant oil company Yukos....What is clear is that the Kremlin's strong-arm tactics have little to do with battling economic crime and a lot to do with power and the coming elections in Russia."

An October 28 Washington Post editorial claimed "no one is safe from arbitrary prosecution, or from the political whims of the Kremlin, and the US State Department suggested that MK's arrest involved "selective prosecution," adding that "We are concerned about the rule of law, about maintaining the basic freedom of Russians."

In fact, MK was summoned for questioning. At the time he headed Yukos and was Russia's richest oligarch, ranking 16th on Forbes billionaires list. Today, he faces years more in prison. More on that below.

The Times railed about "masked agents" arresting him instead of pursuing him in court. In fact, he defied a court order to appear before prosecutors. Only then did arrest follow. Other allegations suggested Yukos involvement in murders or attempted ones, targeting bureaucrats or business competitors who interfered with company operations. One was committed on MK's birthday, apparently a gift to the boss.

MK's Background

He began as a Stalinist bureaucrat. In 1987, he used his Komsomol district committee control to organize Menatep, a commercial enterprise to promote inventions and industrial innovations. It later became one of Russia's largest banks. In the 1990s, through ties with Kremlin bureaucrats, he used funds stolen from the state and unwary investors to amass huge holdings in formerly state-owned enterprises at a fraction of their value. In 1995 he bought Yukos assets for $300 million. In 2003, its market value was $30 billion, a 100-fold ill-gotten gain.

Why MK Was Targeted

Besides corruption and tax evasion, political motives were also in play. Allegedly he was bankrolling opposition parties, breaking an unwritten agreement to stay out of politics in return for the state keeping quiet about illicitly gotten riches.

Key also were deals he was negotiating with ExxonMobil and Chevron for up to a 50% stake in Yukos, violating Kremlin policy to keep Russian control of state resources in government or home-grown private hands. In addition, MK had White House political ties. For example, before becoming Bush's National Security Advisor and Secretary of State, Condoleeza Rice was a Chevron board member for 10 years and had a tanker named in her honor. It was then quietly renamed the "Altair Voyager."

Another factor was public hostility toward oligarchs, so pervasive that prosecuting them is politically popular. US anger is a combination of geopolitics and defending predatory capitalism's rapaciousness, notably because of America's own criminal class. For decades, a Washington-corporate cabal shifted trillions of public wealth to private hands, especially to omnipotent Wall Street. At issue is shielding them at all costs so corrupt practices can continue until everything worth owning is stolen.

Before MK's arrest, Yukos was privately held. Afterwards, company assets were bought by state-controlled Rosneft. Then, the majority state-owned Gazprom (the world's largest natural gas company) bought oil giant Sibneft. In 2006, Putin decided against further nationalizations, but continued oil/gas industry control by having industry giants like Lukoil maintain close government connections.

Moreover, to stay in charge, state-owned Transneft controls pipeline transportation. In fact, it's the largest Caspian Pipeline Consortium (CPC) shareholder. Russia wants its production leveraged to control transport and refining to maintain power over EU and neighboring state customers.

As a result, the idea of selling large Yukos or other major resource company assets to foreign buyers is anathema, especially to Big Oil giants. MK also wanted Russia's pipeline monopoly broken with a private one to shift the flow of oil. It was like declaring war on the state and got him incarcerated.

On May 31, 2005, he was convicted of fraud and tax evasion and sentenced to nine years in prison, later reduced to eight years. In March 2009, he and Platon Lebedev (billionaire, former Group Menatep CEO and close MK associate) were tried for embezzlement and money laundering. On December 27, 2010, both men were convicted, and on December 30 sentenced to 14 years imprisonment, including time served. Lebedev also was convicted in 2005.

Rallying Round the Thief

Again, The New York Times came to MK's defense in a December 28 editorial headlined, "What Rule of Law," saying:

President Dmitri Medvedev can prove his "rule of law" credentials "by using his pardon power to ensure that (MK) faces no additional prison time after being convicted on trumped-up embezzlement charges this week. (He's) already served seven years as a result of Mr. Putin's judicial vendetta against him."

Fairness and truth were never NYT long suits, editorially defending a world-class criminal, guilty of predatory rapaciousness. On December 28, the White House said:

"We are deeply concerned that a Russian judge today has indicated that for the second time (MK) and Platon Lebedev will be convicted. We are troubled by the allegations of serious due process violations, and what appears to be an abusive use of the legal system for improper ends."

No nation more egregiously violates rule of law principles than America at home and abroad. No other more heinously spurns human rights, civil liberties, due process, judicial fairness, and democratic values. None also are more unjustifiably self-righteous.

No broadsheet is more hypocritical than The Times, tainted by decades of supporting wealth, corporate interests, and imperial wars. Daily, its agenda is visible, arrogantly supporting power over popular interests, even mega-criminals deserving condemnation. Indeed, truth and fairness were never NYT long suits. Nor America's.

Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago and can be reached at lendmanstephen@sbcglobal.net. Also visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com and listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network Thursdays at 10AM US Central time and Saturdays and Sundays at noon. All programs are archived for easy listening.

http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/the-progressive-news-hour/.

The funniest thing is that they are claiming his treatment is all political and are asking for Putin or Medvedev to intervene...

They want political intervention in Russias justice system.

Now if they believe the crap they believe this guy is already in prison because he is a political threat to Putin and Medvedev so why would they help him now?

I really get annoyed at my own government when someone with a NZ passport gets caught in Asia somewhere with a big pile of drugs on them and my government feels the need to try to get them off the death penalty or out of jail time just because that country has harsher penalties for drugs than we do. They all did it for easy money but when it comes time to face up to what they were doing... well the tune is very different.

Garry, when Putin gave to Mr Khodorkovsky a donkeyKong in the ass.......that's when Mr Khodorkovsky admitted being on the CIA payroll.......

Even that dumb ass Chess player whatever his fukkin name is another buffoon recruited by the CIA/ NSA to sow discontent and cause trouble for the Russian Government.

All these bastards including these Wahabbi's, AL-CIAda operatives, Chechen rebels, Sunni tribal leaders in Iraq etc. do actually work for the U.S. Government. They are paid for their services via Saudi petrodollars.

Behind every terrorist incident is either the U.S. Government or its two favourite proxies....(Israel & Saudi Haramia).

This is an established fact of life now. Nothing else makes any sense.

P.S. I bet you a million bucks that the latest blast in Egypt is another disgusting and cowardly act sponsored by U.S/ Israel, and paid for by the Saudi's.

I can't say you are wrong, though I would hope most American citizens would want to believe their government wouldn't do that sort of thing...


Glad to see in the news that in Egypt both Christian leaders and Muslim leaders went on TV to agree that this is not the way muslims and christians should be acting and that this attack was probably from an external source... personally I think if it wasn't Saudi Arabia then Pakistan could be another source.

The US and Israel benefit from Israels neighbours fighting and in turmoil.

This thing that the U.S. & Israel did in Egypt a couple of days ago is a fine example of what the UK used to do in India........pit one against the other by deliberate provocations including terrorism and then sit down on the side walk and enjoy the popcorn while the two fools go at each other.....That's how the UK controlled India for a hundred years until the Indians woke up.

The U.S. and Israel did the same shit in Lebanon for well over 20 years until they destroyed that country.

Now they have been doing this same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan for the last decade....and you see the results.

Where ever these bastards go they deliberately cause civil wars, terrorism and instability. That is the game Garry......human rights, democracy and freedom is all rubbish.

The United states Government is a terrorist entity. They are the hidden hand, and most people around the world know this, but wont admit to it.

Standard practise of a colonial power is to go in and find a victim minority group and put them in charge of the masses.

You have their loyalty because you put them in power and once in power and controlling police and the armed forces the majority have little choice but to do as they are told.

Sometimes that falls over like in Asia just after WWII when there were not enough colonial forces to maintain the empires... often the French and British used Japanese soldiers to ensure colonial power was maintained till the colonial powers could recover and send their own forces to maintain order.

Of course in the Middle East it is even more pathetic... there are civilisations thousands of years old like the Persians, the Egyptians, the Babylonians etc etc, yet it was Germany and France and Britain that went in there and drew lines on maps and created royal families... the Saudi Royal family can cast its history back as far... as the early 20th century AD. Not very impressive is it?
The lines on the maps that create the various countries appeared after WWI because France and Britain were dividing the known oil fields between them. If divided on ethnic lines Kurdistan would exist, but it is drawn on oil reserves not people.
If there was oil in Israel then Palestine would have appeared on the map to be replaced in 1948 with Israel.

It is the map makers with the power and it was Europe that stole land at the stroke of a pen. Ask the countries in Africa, or the natives of Australia for that matter.

Problem is that those who benefit from the way things are don't want it to change because that would effect them in a bad way.
Those that don't benefit can see the problem but are not in a position to do anything about it.

Human rights, democracy, freedom of speech... these are the whips for the backs of our opponents... we have very high morals and high ideals but we only apply these to our rivals. The fact that they come up short is no surprise because we never judge ourselves by such standards so we never have to worry about it.

Yeah no kidding Garry......that's pretty much right on the money.

Having talked to a few Iraqi shia's recently I was fukking appalled at what the 'Coalition' has been doing in Iraq.....just killing innocent people for the hell of it.

A lot of these suicide bombings, car and truck bombings and other terrorist attacks are directly attributable to the CIA. The Iraqi Shia militia members have caught people red handed trying to carry out suicide attacks or truck bombings, and after interrogations the truth comes out! The case of the UK special forces around Basra is a famous example of being busted in the act.

Time and again........the Saudi's send in their kids to blow themselves up inside Iraq, with a blessing of course from Uncle Sam. Or when a truck driver is scurrying away after parking his explosives laden truck, and gets caught he also spills the beans about who plans what.

After all Garry.......it is the West that is the only party that benefits from this chaos.....certainly not the naked hungry and voiceless/ powerless peasants that get slaughtered by the dozens every time.

Also after the Mumbai attack.....I was blaming Pakistan and its rogue agencies and blah blah.....but now I believe that the U.S. and Israel directed and orchestrated that attack via their proxies, including the very convenient Mr David Headley (a known DEA/ NSA agent). Beleaguered Pakistan had nothing to gain from that attack except earn further wrath of the world....It's pretty obvious who was the party to gain the most out of the Mumbai disaster.

I am pretty sure Pakistan had a significant hand in the Mumbai attacks.

I mean this is a country that basically created and supported the Taleban in Afghanistan.

It was Saudi and US money that the ISI used in Afghanistan and they could have supported any faction they wanted. They chose the Taleban... who admittedly brought order, but at a price... especially for the women.

GarryB wrote:I am pretty sure Pakistan had a significant hand in the Mumbai attacks.

I mean this is a country that basically created and supported the Taleban in Afghanistan.

It was Saudi and US money that the ISI used in Afghanistan and they could have supported any faction they wanted. They chose the Taleban... who admittedly brought order, but at a price... especially for the women.

you are right

Russia angered by speech of suspected militant in top U.S. university

Russia is outraged after a top U.S. university invited a suspected
Russian militant, who is on an international wanted list, as a guest
speaker for a panel discussion, a spokesman for the Russian Foreign
Ministry, Alexander Lukashevich, said on Thursday.
Ilyas Akhmadov, who according to Russia served as an aide for
notorious Chechen terrorist Shamil Basayev, participated on Monday in
the Crisis in the North Caucasus: Any Way Out? panel discussion at the
John Hopkins University in Maryland.
"We are bewildered and outraged that the well-known John Hopkins
University gave the floor to a former militant, who served as an aide
for the international terrorist Basayev. Moreover, we are talking about a
criminal who is on the international wanted list. Unfortunately, this
person is still registered in the United States as a refugee,"
Lukashevich said.
Basayev, who was behind some of the most gruesome terrorist attacks
on Russian soil, including the September 2004 Beslan school siege, was
killed by federal troops in July 2006.
Such events, he said, as at the John Hopkins University "play into the hands of terrorists and their allies."
The diplomat also called on the United States to remove its
objections in regard to Russia's proposal to include its suspected
militant Doku Umarov on the UN Security Council list of the most dangerous wanted terrorists.
Russia submitted this proposal last November with the UN Security
Council commission 1267, which deals with sanctions against the Taliban
movement, al-Qaeda and other organizations linked to them. Russia claims
that Umarov and his movement, the Caucasus Emirate, are closely linked
to al-Qaeda.
"Russia's arguments and evidence submitted with the 1267 committee
have conclusively proven that Umarov and his so-called Caucasus Emirate
are closely linked with al-Qaeda and the Taliban movement. However, the
committee decided to stay its decision on our application after the
United States objected," Lukashevich said.
The United States claims that Russia provided insufficient proof that
Umarov and his movement were linked to Al-Qaeda, he said, adding
however that last year the U.S. Department of State included Umarov in
the national list of the most dangerous international terrorists.
MOSCOW, February 17 (RIA Novosti)

http://en.rian.ru/world/20110217/162652199.html

The US asks for Russian support in the war on terror and does this sort of thing?

Funny... does the US obey the international laws of political asylum all the time?

How did Victor Bout get to US Soil?

They will put kids under the age of 16 in Guantanimo for years but will protect someone who assisted in the planning of the attack in Beslan that killed how many children?

If America was a democracy and was really over the cold war these sort of guys would be treated like the trash they are, but the cold war is only over when NATO needs to expand east, or it is time to sign some arms agreement.

Clearly Russia needs to follow Americas lead and try some extraordinary rendition of their own... or better still some wet ops.

Top US university my @$$ I am surprised they don't have a Fox News affiliation badge on their website.

This sickens me. America's war on terror isn't really a war on terror since it just picks the groups that are against American interest. I don't really see why the Russian government would support America on Afghanistan, e.g. allow NATO to use Russian territory to send supplies to Afghanistan, when they do stuff like this and it wasn't too long ago American weapons were used to kill Soviet troops in Afghanistan. I guess maybe Russia thinks helping NATO in Afghanistan will make them tackle the drug problem in Afghanistan that effects Russia to this day?

Most countries will do what is in their own interests... it is just that they don't call themselves the worlds policeman, or leader of the free world, or worlds greatest democracy.
It doesn't bother me how they act... they are very predictable... but the preaching to others about right and wrong and pretending everything they do is for the good of the world gets annoying.

This was an interesting article about how a Russian oil freighter will deliver much needed fuel to Nome Alaska. Because of bad weather Nome never received their fuel to ride out the severe winter. A Russian ship will come to the rescue and deliver the fuel. You should all read the favorable and nice comments people have made at the bottom of the article thanking Russia for this.

I tend to like Russian military equipment. Someday I'd like to get a restored GAZ 69, they look sharp.

You forgot to post a link to the story...

Also it is a forum rule that you introduce yourself before posting so everyone knows who you are.

If you look on the Home page, in the "Welcome to the Russian Military Forum" section there is a forum for "Member Introductions and Rules".

Please create a new thread in that forum and introduce yourself and perhaps tell us a bit about yourself.

You don't need to delete any existing posts to make this new post your first, though it might be a good idea to give the rules a quick read.

I would say welcome to the forum here, but then what will I say on your new thread in the Member introductions and Rules section...

I must say your first post reminds me of a situation a few years back when a large pod of whales just off the coast of Alaska or the US got trapped in the ice. The sea froze around them and they had a small hole in the ice to breath, but it was hundreds of miles to the open sea... even if they got the direction perfect they couldn't make it, so a couple of Russian nuclear powered icebreakers went and helped out... it is sad that such stories of cooperation are not the focus of the media in both countries instead of stories of confrontation or hard headedness on one side or the other.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/27/us/path-cleared-in-ice-whales-swim-free.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

It seems the west is frustrated at not getting its way by whining in the UN, and now wants a legal way to separate Russia from its clients.

The suggestion is that there be an international arms trade treaty that stipulates that countries guilty of human rights abuses cannot be allowed to be sold weapons on the legal international market.

As shown by western illegal supplies to rebel groups in Libya and Syria it wont really effect the west much because it seems it is them that decide who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. For instance I rather doubt the illegal detention and torture of people in a US base in Cuba or across secret CIA bases all over eastern europe would be considered, and I am sure Saudi Arabia would not be held accountable for the forces it sent to Bahrain to crush peaceful protest rallys... you know where this is going of course, and we all know how they will try to do it.

Keep the wording vague, but make sure that anyone who refuses to sign are perceived not to do so not because of genuine suspicions that this is another tool to tie hands and control the legal arms market, but because the country refusing to sign hates freedom and democracy...

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20120703/174382218.html

USAID mission in Russia to close following Moscow decision
By Arshad Mohammed

WASHINGTON, Sept 18 (Reuters) - The U.S. government said on Tuesday that it would shut its aid mission in Russia at Moscow's insistence, a step analysts attributed to Russian misgivings about foreign-funded pro-democracy groups.

The U.S. Agency for International Development, or USAID, has spent more than $2.6 billion in Russia over the past two decades to help combat infectious diseases, protect the environment, develop a stronger civil society, and modernize the economy.

While President Barack Obama came into office seeking a "reset" in relations with Russia that bore some fruit, including a 2010 arms-control treaty, the two nations disagree on issues from Syria and Iran to U.S. missile defense and the Arab Spring.

In announcing the decision to close down the USAID operation in Russia, the State Department suggested the Russian government - which is earning high levels of oil revenues - felt that it should no longer be the recipient of such foreign aid.

Analysts also suggested a political motive: reducing foreign support for Russian groups that promote democracy and the rule of law but that are viewed with deep suspicion by the Kremlin.

Vladimir Putin, who served eight years as Russia's president until 2008 and then four years as prime minister until May, took office this year for a third term as president following an election that sparked protests against his rule.

"Russian authorities have made clear for the better part of a decade that they see Russia as a great power and a provider of assistance, not a recipient," said Matthew Rojansky of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

"Add to that tension over the pre- and post-election protests, which the Kremlin alleges were orchestrated by U.S.-funded NGOs (non-governmental organizations), plus the deep disagreement over U.S. democracy-promotion activities in the Middle East, and you can see why Russia may have taken this decision now," he added.

In announcing the decision, the State Department said USAID will continue to try to promote democracy and civil society despite no longer having an office in Russia.

"The United States recently received the Russian government's decision to end USAID activities in the Russian Federation," department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said in a written statement. She later told reporters that Russia had informed the United States of its decision last Wednesday.

"While USAID's physical presence in Russia will come to an end, we remain committed to supporting democracy, human rights, and the development of a more robust civil society in Russia and look forward to continuing our cooperation with Russian non-governmental organizations," Nuland added.

Steven Pifer, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine who is now at the Brookings Institution think tank, said he believed the decision reflected some reluctance by the Russian government to see foreign support for pro-democracy efforts in the country.

"They see AID's efforts in Russia as being a prime funder of the NGOs that are concerned about their elections and concerned about the regression of democracy in Russia," Pifer said.

He said the Russian government may also be "trying to make it more difficult" for the outside world to support pro-democracy NGOs in Russia.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/18/usa-russia-aid-idUSL1E8KICUD20120918

2.6 billion $ in 20 years. There is serious money in it.

USAID budget for 2012 war around 50min but I guess in election years is grown by at least ten times.

It was about time.

Well, good for Russia for getting them out if they weren't wanted. And yeah, I'll say it, good on USAID for doing what the Russians are telling them to.

I would like to congratulate the Russian Federation for these positive and effective action, I just hope my nation will do the same in the future.

It was pretty much a front for supporting foreign agents like Gary Kasparov... note I didn't give him is full title of former world chess champion gary kasparov... as if that gives him some sort of authority in some way.

Sorry to say it, but like most things the US government does it sounds like a nice charitable thing, but if you look deeper its prime goal was to serve US interests, and this is hidden behind a charade that it is actually about Russian interests.

2.6 billion sounds like a lot of money, but over that same 20 years the west has probably spend 1,000,000 times more than that on killing people around the world, and developing new oil supplies including in Russia because it is also in their interests to maintain the oil supply.

Perhaps a 750 billion dollar Marshal plan type bailout of Russia in the 1990s might have completely changed the dynamic... perhaps if China had had its growth spurt in the 80s instead of the 2000s there might have been a new cold war, with the west supporting the Russians so they had an ally that shared a land boundary with the new threat... perhaps then western democracy might not have been foul language in Russia in the 1990s.

Opportunities lost.

I remember Bush snr and secretary Baker emphasising that the Cold War is over and that neither side has lost... how can you say Russia lost when it gets democracy as a result. Is democracy a punishment for the loser?

All sorts of promises were then made... NATO will not expand at all, NATO would not expand into eastern europe, NATO would not include former Soviet republics, NATO troops would not be based in eastern europe...

But come election time in the US and it was all about the US winning the cold war... beating the Russians... freeing europe... and it has been the same ever since.

GarryB wrote:It was pretty much a front for supporting foreign agents like Gary Kasparov... note I didn't give him is full title of former world chess champion gary kasparov... as if that gives him some sort of authority in some way.

Sorry to say it, but like most things the US government does it sounds like a nice charitable thing, but if you look deeper its prime goal was to serve US interests, and this is hidden behind a charade that it is actually about Russian interests.

2.6 billion sounds like a lot of money, but over that same 20 years the west has probably spend 1,000,000 times more than that on killing people around the world, and developing new oil supplies including in Russia because it is also in their interests to maintain the oil supply.

Perhaps a 750 billion dollar Marshal plan type bailout of Russia in the 1990s might have completely changed the dynamic... perhaps if China had had its growth spurt in the 80s instead of the 2000s there might have been a new cold war, with the west supporting the Russians so they had an ally that shared a land boundary with the new threat... perhaps then western democracy might not have been foul language in Russia in the 1990s.

Opportunities lost.

I remember Bush snr and secretary Baker emphasising that the Cold War is over and that neither side has lost... how can you say Russia lost when it gets democracy as a result. Is democracy a punishment for the loser?

All sorts of promises were then made... NATO will not expand at all, NATO would not expand into eastern europe, NATO would not include former Soviet republics, NATO troops would not be based in eastern europe...

But come election time in the US and it was all about the US winning the cold war... beating the Russians... freeing europe... and it has been the same ever since.

Well, can't blame the Americans too much. Those promises were made to the USSR. The USSR keeled over.
And they expanded because of Russia's own weakness. Russia should not have needed any sort of martial plan; in the 80s it was still the 2nd or 3rd largest economy in the world despite its political stagnation, gradual erosion of its ideology and increasing weaknesses in some areas of its economy. That it self-destructed and cynical politicians and would-be oligarchs robbed us blind and sold out all our interests is completely our fault. America and Europe simply took advantage of our weakness and chaos - but they didn't cause it; we did.

America and Europe simply took advantage of our weakness and chaos - but they didn't cause it; we did.

There was a real opportunity... the west likes to brag that the rebuilding of West Germany and Japan after WWII was all about the west learning from the mistakes at the end of WWI where Germany was blamed for WWI when it was no more responsible than any other participant, yet the terms of surrender were extreme. The result was WWII.

The problem is that the west is not actually that civilised and that the rebuilding of West Germany and Japan was really about preparation for the next big threat and nothing at all to do with learning from past mistakes.

When the Soviet Union collapsed they had an opportunity to prove they had learned from their mistakes and they could have actively helped Russia and the other former Soviet republics, both financially and politically, but they chose to play a waiting game because there was no obvious threat on the horizon.

I don't blame them for not helping and waiting to see what resulted, but if they are going to claim they only helped from the goodness of their hearts, well it is like Lend Lease all over again isn't it?

USAIDE gave Russia 2.6 billion dollars and saved Russia from total collapse... why aren't you guys more grateful?

In those 20 years the vast majority of aide went to dismantling nuclear subs and getting rid of old missiles and bombers. It sounds like a good thing, but they were spending money on the dead and not the living.

I should make it clear that my beef is with the US government, and not the American people, who I am sure didn't have ill feelings towards the Russian people. The American people can be very generous to foreigners, it is the US government that makes sure it has an interest involved before it lifts a finger to help anyone.

‘Guantanamo List’ in response to ‘Magnitsky List’

In response to America’s ‘Magnitsky List’, Russia is already operating a blacklist of some 60 US nationals who were involved in the mistreatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay and secret CIA jails.

This blacklist is open to enlargement, and no aspect of it will be released into the public domain.

Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov announced this to the press in Moscow on Friday.

"In our relations with the United States, we have so-called ‘blacklists.’ The makeup of these lists, as well as the criteria on which they are based, is not a matter of general discussion," the Foreign Ministry's Deputy Head Sergei Ryabkov said. "As for the 'Guantanamo List,' some information that is now publicly available is not far from the truth. The contents of these lists may change with time," he added.

Russia had previously blacklisted only 11 Americans. Visa restrictions had been put in place on those Americans who had violated the human rights of Russian citizens in the United States and in zones under American jurisdiction (such as Guantanamo Bay, Cuba). Duma Foreign Affairs Committee representative Alexei Pushkov told Russian media on Friday that the list had been extended to include 60 people.

Ryabkov said Russia had determined several occasions on which "the US government and legal establishments had raced to unjustifiable conclusions, extending US jurisdiction to the territory of third states," and also violated human rights, including those of Russian citizens in the United States.

"This cannot be left without a response. One of the forms of this response is the restriction of entry to Russia for those people who participate in these violations," he said.
Voice of Russia, RIA

http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_01_18/Guantanamo-List-in-response-to-Magnitsky-List/

A U.S. court ordered Russia to pay 50,000 dollars a day for using of the so-called Schneerson Library – a collection of ancient Jewish religious literature.

Moscow will have to pay the money to Jewish Chassidic movement Chabad Lubavitch until it returns the Schneerson Collection.

This collection of books and manuscripts used to belong to one of the leaders of the movement – late Rabbi Joseph Isaac Schneerson. The library counts 12,000 books, 50,000 other documents and 381 manuscripts.

Russia does not recognize Chabad Lubavitch’s claims as the collection had been kept in Russia during all these years. In addition, the Schneerson family has no heirs to the unique collection.


http://www.eutimes.net/2013/01/us-court-orders-russia-to-pay-50000-daily-for-jewish-books/