Mistral News thread

the catalyst was the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia... before that Russia probably thought it could get the support of the international community when it was being attacked and was defending itself.

Also it was a wakeup call to say the army has been neglected, as has the air force and navy and that while the ground troops performed rather better than anyone expected there were a lot of problems.

this was a small conflict with tiny georgia... imagine if Japan tried to retake the Kurile Islands...

the purpose of the Mistral purchase was to get a ship into service quickly and considering two should have been ready for service by the middle of next year I think their choices and decisions were largely right.

Their only problem was that France... a very good ally in the past... ie Thales et al, are spineless cheese eating surrender monkeys doing what they do best.

France should have said to US pressure that trying to make them do something against their interests is not something a real ally would do and withdraw from NATO and tell the US to go fuck itself and then sue all US companies operating on French soil.

Instead they clearly have lived up to the US stereotype of cheese eating surrender monkeys.... earned.

the infrastructure in the far east to support the Mistral might be enough on its own... some land based Ka-52s and some S-400 sites might be enough to deter Japanese aggression.

No, it was a wake up call for the Zionists and their European colonies. Putin's hesitation to enter Tbilisi and reluctance to put down Saakashvili was his greatest mistake and lead to the Ukrainian coup and the economic war. His new hesitation might lead to even greater disasters, I hope I will prove wrong.

GarryB, Japan is nothing... our army is comparable against the U.S. and in some parts has even better stuff.   Japan would never take the Kurile islands, Either way they would only cry about it in politics.   I say to hell with the Mistrals,  Our army needs Russian gear not some French gear.

No, it was a wake up call for the Zionists and their European colonies. Putin's hesitation to enter Tbilisi and reluctance to put down Saakashvili was his greatest mistake and lead to the Ukrainian coup and the economic war. His new hesitation might lead to even greater disasters, I hope I will prove wrong.

I agree that the west got a shock... it was clearly planned well in advance and likely coordinated from Washington and it clearly failed... miserably. the huge irony that the western media has ignored because a real western media doesn't exist any more.... now it is just a bunch of copy pasters who just publish state department copy when it is released... this all started because of the independence of Kosovo... Russia said if Kosovo can be independent then so can South Ossetia and Abkhazia and they opened their borders to both regions. That is the real reason Georgia invaded... they invaded South Ossetia because they knew Abkhazia would kick their arses, but they invaded because with open borders to the north both regions were no longer dependent on Georgia and were becoming more and more independent.

Russia felt weak and unable to help the Serbs in Kosovo... support remained largely verbal. It was the same for the US and west because of the location of Georgia.

Putin was totally correct in not invading Tiblisi... this was never intended as regime change and could not be justified as such. This was a cowardly artillery based attack by Georgia, so incursion into georgian territory to deal with the guns and launch platforms was necessary and also to secure military equipment abandoned by the georgian military was just the most responsible thing to do.

GarryB, Japan is nothing... our army is comparable against the U.S. and in some parts has even better stuff.

I have a lot of respect for the Russian military, but I think you should have more respect for the Japanese military... I think the US military would not defeat the Japanese very easily right now... they are a very professional and well equipped military force.

Japan would never take the Kurile islands, Either way they would only cry about it in politics.

If Japans economy collapsed they might see a war as a good way to stimulate the economy... countries around the world have done this... from Germany and Argentina to the worst offender... the US.

I say to hell with the Mistrals, Our army needs Russian gear not some French gear.

French gear now and in 15-20 years a Russian replacement... or are you going to rip all those thermal sights out of all your armoured vehicles?

flamming_python wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:I have always said this:

For Russia, war is a tragedy. For the USA, it is business.

You're wrong Armenian - Russia will make war a tragedy for the US, the only nation that can do so

War would be a tragedy for both.

Flyingdutchman wrote:War would be a tragedy for both.

War is a tragedy for the people, but the life source and money source for parasites, oligarchs and political scums in the U.S.

I am sorry if our American friends here are angry, but the fact is, White House and Pentagon and the oligarchs behind them have been making money and more money from the blood and bones of American citizens and other peoples.

Prolonged war is a burden for economy, but... who cares ? The nature of parasites is that, they are eager to sell their own country for money.

Correct me if I am wrong... but there are theories which claim that Kennedy and Lincoln were killed because they tried to go against the oligarchs who monopolized the U.S. economy.

What’s new wit the Mistral Deal?
So far no new news from either side (Russia or France) regarding “Mistral” will be delivers or the money will be refund with the penalty

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150105/1016523067.html


What a genius... I could have told him 2 years ago that Russia was not interested in Ukrainian territory except the Crimea, and that they don't want the Ukraine to join NATO.

GarryB wrote:http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150105/1016523067.html


What a genius... I could have told him 2 years ago that Russia was not interested in Ukrainian territory except the Crimea, and that they don't want the Ukraine to join NATO.

Is it a sign to show that Holland will finally give in and deliver the Mistral to Russia ?

Testament to the failure of Russian-French relations.

kvs wrote:Testament to the failure of Russian-French relations.

Russia should not yield to any pressure, the Ukrainian authorities must not be allowed to cement their power.

To France, Germany, others.. this will not be acceptable. They thought they had pulled of a fair accompli in the Ukraine. When they didn't, they thought they could pressure Russia. But if Russia is unyielding to pressure - they will continue to lose money; in the Ukraine from having to support the decaying economy, from the food ban, from Russia's rouble devaluation which translates to less Russian tourists and demand for goods, etc... their positions on the Russian market are eroding month by month.
The situation is even more acute in the Baltic states, which depended on Russian tourism, agricultural export to Russia and transit to Russia - all 3 of which are plummeting.
South-Eastern Europe too.. Bulgaria has been robbed of its nuclear plant deal, its transit fees for the gas.. Bulgaria, Hungary and others together have been robbed of the chance for cheap gas supplies.

Russia on the other hand is decreasing its dependence on Europe, and by so doing increasing ties with friendly countries in the Middle East, former USSR, North Africa, South America & Asia; who are providing an increasing share of agricultural produce and other products, and are becoming more attractive tourist destinations.
Russia is also helping its own businesses. Russian agriculture, more than anyone else, is having a whale of a time; although they are wary on increasing production as they don't know how long the ban on European/American produce will be kept. Domestic producers in general - have suddenly become all the more cheaper compared to their foreign counterparts. People are turning more to domestically-produced goods. Russia is taking advantage of the crisis, to fund and boost domestic production and businesses.
Russia is weaving off the dollar, off the VISA/Mastercard payment system, off reliance on loans in Western banks, off North American and London stock exchanges.. who looses from this? In the short-term Russia, but in the long-term the West is cutting itself out of a market completely, and perhaps other countries will follow suit.

flamming_python wrote:

kvs wrote:Testament to the failure of Russian-French relations.

Russia should not yield to any pressure, the Ukrainian authorities must not be allowed to cement their power.

To France, Germany, others.. this will not be acceptable. They thought they had pulled of a fair accompli in the Ukraine. When they didn't, they thought they could pressure Russia. But if Russia is unyielding to pressure - they will continue to lose money; in the Ukraine from having to support the decaying economy, from the food ban, from Russia's rouble devaluation which translates to less Russian tourists and demand for goods, etc... their positions on the Russian market are eroding month by month.
The situation is even more acute in the Baltic states, which depended on Russian tourism, agricultural export to Russia and transit to Russia - all 3 of which are plummeting.
South-Eastern Europe too.. Bulgaria has been robbed of its nuclear plant deal, its transit fees for the gas.. Bulgaria, Hungary and others together have been robbed of the chance for cheap gas supplies.

Russia on the other hand is decreasing its dependence on Europe, and by so doing increasing ties with friendly countries in the Middle East, former USSR, North Africa, South America & Asia; who are providing an increasing share of agricultural produce and other products, and are becoming more attractive tourist destinations.
Russia is also helping its own businesses. Russian agriculture, more than anyone else, is having a whale of a time; although they are wary on increasing production as they don't know how long the ban on European/American produce will be kept. Domestic producers in general - have suddenly become all the more cheaper compared to their foreign counterparts. People are turning more to domestically-produced goods. Russia is taking advantage of the crisis, to fund and boost domestic production and businesses.
Russia is weaving off the dollar, off the VISA/Mastercard payment system, off reliance on loans in Western banks, off North American and London stock exchanges.. who looses from this? In the short-term Russia, but in the long-term the West is cutting itself out of a market completely, and perhaps other countries will follow suit.

Couldn't agree more. Don't think I'm sufficiently proficient in French, but I think it's fait accompli and not fair accompli. Maybe a typing error.

Finally, they need to settle this and not play the waiting game. To show the world and would be buyers of french weaponry that they can´t be trusted to fullfil contracts. Perhaps this will make India stop the Rafale deal and buy SU-30´s instead.


MOSCOW, January 14. /TASS/. Russia could cancel its contract with France if Paris fails to hand over the first Mistral helicopter carrier until the end of January, a high-ranking source in Russia’s Defense Ministry told TASS on Wednesday.

Earlier media reports said that Russia has sent an official request to France’s Defense Ministry demanding an explanation why the first Mistral warship, the Vladivostok, was not delivered to Russia.

“Yes, indeed, an official request to France’s Defense Ministry on the failure to deliver the first Mistral must have already been sent,” the source said.

“A three-month deadline which the French have to hand over the helicopter carrier expires in January. Then the contract will be either broken or performed,” the source said.

The source said Russia and France still could make a compromise. “On our part, we will make advances,” he said.

Russia to Give France Until February to Deliver Carrier: Defense Official

Russian Defense Minister Says Ready to Sue France Over Mistral Delivery

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that if Mistral contract is not fulfilled, Russia could file a court case against France within six months.

MOSCOW, January 15 (Sputnik) – Moscow could file a court case against Paris within six months over the latter's nonfulfillment of a contract to deliver the first Mistral-class helicopter carrier to Russia on time, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Thursday.

"If the contract isn't fulfilled, then naturally a suit will be filed. The first part [before filing the suit] was already done in January, that is a [request for] an explanation, then why [the contract was not fulfilled] is the next, and that will take between three and six months," Shoigu told RIA Novosti.

Earlier this week, a high-ranking Russian military source told RIA Novosti that the Defense Ministry did not intend to take any action regarding the matter before February.

On Tuesday, an official from Defense Ministry's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation stated that an official inquiry had been sent from Moscow to Paris. The case will either be taken to court or France will be given more time; both possibilities would require France to write an explanation of the situation at hand.

In 2011, a $1.5 billion dollar contract was made for the delivery of two Mistral-class assault ships between Russian state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport and French shipbuilder DCNS. French President Francois Hollande announced the suspension of the delivery of the first ship, due November 14, 2014. Hollande cited Russia's alleged role in Ukrainian conflict as the reason for suspension.

According to Russian experts, Paris could face penalties as high as $10 billion if it fails to fulfill its contractual obligations.

Kyo wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

kvs wrote:Testament to the failure of Russian-French relations.

Russia should not yield to any pressure, the Ukrainian authorities must not be allowed to cement their power.

To France, Germany, others.. this will not be acceptable. They thought they had pulled of a fair accompli in the Ukraine. When they didn't, they thought they could pressure Russia. But if Russia is unyielding to pressure - they will continue to lose money; in the Ukraine from having to support the decaying economy, from the food ban, from Russia's rouble devaluation which translates to less Russian tourists and demand for goods, etc... their positions on the Russian market are eroding month by month.
The situation is even more acute in the Baltic states, which depended on Russian tourism, agricultural export to Russia and transit to Russia - all 3 of which are plummeting.
South-Eastern Europe too.. Bulgaria has been robbed of its nuclear plant deal, its transit fees for the gas.. Bulgaria, Hungary and others together have been robbed of the chance for cheap gas supplies.

Russia on the other hand is decreasing its dependence on Europe, and by so doing increasing ties with friendly countries in the Middle East, former USSR, North Africa, South America & Asia; who are providing an increasing share of agricultural produce and other products, and are becoming more attractive tourist destinations.
Russia is also helping its own businesses. Russian agriculture, more than anyone else, is having a whale of a time; although they are wary on increasing production as they don't know how long the ban on European/American produce will be kept. Domestic producers in general - have suddenly become all the more cheaper compared to their foreign counterparts. People are turning more to domestically-produced goods. Russia is taking advantage of the crisis, to fund and boost domestic production and businesses.
Russia is weaving off the dollar, off the VISA/Mastercard payment system, off reliance on loans in Western banks, off North American and London stock exchanges.. who looses from this? In the short-term Russia, but in the long-term the West is cutting itself out of a market completely, and perhaps other countries will follow suit.

Couldn't agree more. Don't think I'm sufficiently  proficient in French, but I think it's fait accompli and not fair accompli. Maybe a typing error.

It is fait accompli indeed, a 'done deal'; just made a typo.

George1 wrote:Russian Defense Minister Says Ready to Sue France Over Mistral Delivery

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that if Mistral contract is not fulfilled, Russia could file a court case against France within six months.

MOSCOW, January 15 (Sputnik) – Moscow could file a court case against Paris within six months over the latter's nonfulfillment of a contract to deliver the first Mistral-class helicopter carrier to Russia on time, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Thursday.

"If the contract isn't fulfilled, then naturally a suit will be filed. The first part [before filing the suit] was already done in January, that is a [request for] an explanation, then why [the contract was not fulfilled] is the next, and that will take between three and six months," Shoigu told RIA Novosti.

Earlier this week, a high-ranking Russian military source told RIA Novosti that the Defense Ministry did not intend to take any action regarding the matter before February.

On Tuesday, an official from Defense Ministry's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation stated that an official inquiry had been sent from Moscow to Paris. The case will either be taken to court or France will be given more time; both possibilities would require France to write an explanation of the situation at hand.

In 2011, a $1.5 billion dollar contract was made for the delivery of two Mistral-class assault ships between Russian state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport and French shipbuilder DCNS. French President Francois Hollande announced the suspension of the delivery of the first ship, due November 14, 2014. Hollande cited Russia's alleged role in Ukrainian conflict as the reason for suspension.

According to Russian experts, Paris could face penalties as high as $10 billion if it fails to fulfill its contractual obligations.

Russia closing in...

George1 wrote:Russian Defense Minister Says Ready to Sue France Over Mistral Delivery

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that if Mistral contract is not fulfilled, Russia could file a court case against France within six months.

MOSCOW, January 15 (Sputnik) – Moscow could file a court case against Paris within six months over the latter's nonfulfillment of a contract to deliver the first Mistral-class helicopter carrier to Russia on time, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Thursday.

"If the contract isn't fulfilled, then naturally a suit will be filed. The first part [before filing the suit] was already done in January, that is a [request for] an explanation, then why [the contract was not fulfilled] is the next, and that will take between three and six months," Shoigu told RIA Novosti.

Earlier this week, a high-ranking Russian military source told RIA Novosti that the Defense Ministry did not intend to take any action regarding the matter before February.

On Tuesday, an official from Defense Ministry's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation stated that an official inquiry had been sent from Moscow to Paris. The case will either be taken to court or France will be given more time; both possibilities would require France to write an explanation of the situation at hand.

In 2011, a $1.5 billion dollar contract was made for the delivery of two Mistral-class assault ships between Russian state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport and French shipbuilder DCNS. French President Francois Hollande announced the suspension of the delivery of the first ship, due November 14, 2014. Hollande cited Russia's alleged role in Ukrainian conflict as the reason for suspension.

According to Russian experts, Paris could face penalties as high as $10 billion if it fails to fulfill its contractual obligations.

Screw the French ships and get the $10 billion, we can build our own ships.

par far wrote:Screw the French ships and get the $10 billion, we can build our own ships.

And 10 bin $ for Su-30 instead of Rafale

Viktor wrote:

par far wrote:Screw the French ships and get the $10 billion, we can build our own ships.

And 10 bin $ for Su-30 instead of Rafale

Russia should put pressure on India to cancel the dassault rafale deal, And any other country that might hopping to buy military equipment from France such as Egypt who is willing to buy Gowind-class corvette form France Russia should offer the Steregushchy-class corvette for Egypt with better weapons with much better price

No, Russia should not provoke the French... dumb as they are there is a potential for future cooperation with different French leaders.

The facts are that the French have until the end of January to deliver the first Mistral class ship under the signed contract, so they haven't broken any agreement yet.

When February comes however and there is no delivered vessel, then Russia needs to decide what to do... and I think it is quite within their rights to sue.

The way the French leadership are talking however I suspect it will be delivered as their talk is softening.

Russia would not be a real friend to India or Egypt if it started pressuring those countries on their purchases of military hardware... just because the French and US use such pressures does not make it right for Russia to play that dirty game. Egypt and India have chosen French products... Russia should not get upset about that.

GarryB wrote:No, Russia should not provoke the French... dumb as they are there is a potential for future cooperation with different French leaders.

The facts are that the French have until the end of January to deliver the first Mistral class ship under the signed contract, so they haven't broken any agreement yet.

When February comes however and there is no delivered vessel, then Russia needs to decide what to do... and I think it is quite within their rights to sue.

The way the French leadership are talking however I suspect it will be delivered as their talk is softening.

Russia would not be a real friend to India or Egypt if it started pressuring those countries on their purchases of military hardware... just because the French and US use such pressures does not make it right for Russia to play that dirty game. Egypt and India have chosen French products... Russia should not get upset about that.

x2, but from time to time russia has to play ball too.

Russia should not pressure India or anyone else - I'm quite sure they'll just give Russia the middle finger anyway if it starts acting like the US.

A better strategy would be to promote more co-operation with those countries. Entice them to buy cheaper, better Russian stuff than overpriced Rafaels or yesterday's tech from old US stocks. Believe me, the contracts will come. A lot of it now is just a result of India wanting to do anything to diversify, and also some cheap propaganda about 'West is best', propogated especially by some paid-off bloggers and interest groups.

Some US hardware is very good, so I can understand something like the Apache purchase, that's all well and good. The C-130Js that India is buying though? By no means is it a bad aircraft, but still the deal is the ripoff of the century; India could have gotten some An-70s or Il-476s for a fraction of the price; and in terms of the An-70 at least it's the best in its class bar none.

GarryB wrote:No, Russia should not provoke the French... dumb as they are there is a potential for future cooperation with different French leaders.

The facts are that the French have until the end of January to deliver the first Mistral class ship under the signed contract, so they haven't broken any agreement yet.

When February comes however and there is no delivered vessel, then Russia needs to decide what to do... and I think it is quite within their rights to sue.

The way the French leadership are talking however I suspect it will be delivered as their talk is softening.

Russia would not be a real friend to India or Egypt if it started pressuring those countries on their purchases of military hardware... just because the French and US use such pressures does not make it right for Russia to play that dirty game. Egypt and India have chosen French products... Russia should not get upset about that.

Point taken
It’s just the waiting game then
Regarding the price of the aircraft's (west & Russian)
Russian can make very good aircraft for the fraction of the price of a western aircraft they should put this in to civilian aircrafts

Some US hardware is very good, so I can understand something like the Apache purchase, that's all well and good. The C-130Js that India is buying though? By no means is it a bad aircraft, but still the deal is the ripoff of the century; India could have gotten some An-70s or Il-476s for a fraction of the price; and in terms of the An-70 at least it's the best in its class bar none.

Some american stuff is very very good, but if you are looking for rip off of the century... the French with their 174 million dollar per plane Rafale is tricky to beat, but the US manages it with the 500 million per aircraft C-17.

Half a trillion dollars for a transport... you could probably get 4 An-124s for that....

Russian can make very good aircraft for the fraction of the price of a western aircraft they should put this in to civilian aircrafts

In the past the problem has been that there is no ready market for Russian civilian aircraft... I mean without an eastern block to buy them they don't enter service in large numbers so anyone taking a risk to buy one is really taking a risk.

With Russian military purchases and investment however the risk is greatly reduced, so for example the Russian military investing in the Il-112 and Il-114... digitising and upgrading the designs costs a lot of money no airline would spend, but with the military spending that money the product is greatly improved and support guaranteed plus the added bonus that in the future ex military pilots able to fly them will be available to hire and maintainence people with actual experience on the aircraft will also become available over time.

IN that sense military purchases subsidise the civilian aircraft... just like in the west... buying 1,000 Boeings as inflight refuelling aircraft makes them cheaper for civilian sales... and reduces the risk you might get lumped with a plane no one else uses so any problems come out of your wallet. All makes it more attractive to civilian operators and foreign military users.