Mistral News thread

I would expect whatever happens... whether France decides to finally deliver them, or decides to refund and pay penalties that France will ensure Russia signs off allowing the ownership to transfer fully to France so they can do what they like with them... no strings attached.

Hopefully Russia will take advantage of this situation and get top dollar in compensation...

contrived and created, isnt it the same thing?

Roughly, yes, but talking about the general and the specific sounds funny with repetition... in other words saying:

(I mean real ones... not contrived ones like the west contrive...)

Just doesn't sound right...

Vladimir79 wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Vladimir79 wrote:

higurashihougi wrote:Now I wonder what France is going to do with the Mistral ? Sell it to... China ?

Probably Canada and a Scandinavian country if the discount is deep enough.  They are in need of Arctic certified vessels.  

Well so far the rumour has it that the vessels cannot be ceded to a NATO-party if they want to re-sell them. So the only possibility is Sweden, with a billion Euro pricetag, which the Swedish MoD doesn't have, plus about half a billion for armament and refit. Ergo about 20 to 25% extension to the current budget.

Once the money is returned, the contract is nullified leaving DCNS free to do whatever they want with them.  

It is more complicated. France has created the conditions, for Russia to invoke what's called a "réscision pour vice radical". I.E. in French Law, it is a contract concluded by two parties, where one party, ties retroactively the contract, despite prior clauses (ToT, Part-building, licensing etc) to a new and irrelevant cause and effect, which can be taken to face value as a conspiration/ dolus to never deliver on its part of the contract. IE France built two ships with Russian money, that it intended to sell to another party...

This is supported by the fact that France hasn't any barrier or case of 'force majeure' that blocks it from delivering the ships. As both Ships are unarmed, they can't be any contest about weapons transfer; As the goods are pre-paid, there can't be any contest about arrears. It also derives from the French attempts to resell ships it hasn't full rights, while it had said it will deliver them. The evershifting French Position makes it clear that the Vendor has never had ANY intention to deliver the ships. It was made worse by the lax security on the vessels which resultes in diverse thefts (including two laptops with sensitive material from the ships). Off course this is the angle Russian attorneys need to attack. Because France is litterally defenceless on that point.

France hasn't a chance in hell to get out of this without shelling out serious money. SERIOUS. Fric.

Apparently deal is still in limbo. Bochkarev had no authority to say it was off and has been punished.

Vladimir79 wrote:Apparently deal is still in limbo.  Bochkarev had no authority to say it was off and has been punished.

Naaah Dima Rogozin wanted to be first watching French facial expressions when they are told something like бери Мистрале в жопу, сука and Bochkarev stole the whole fun

More seriously I suspect that you all believe in so called law. Law is for weak to punish them. In west there is only one law. Law of jungle, until Russian has a powerful lever to nationalize billions of French money or visit Cossacks in Paris no money will be returned.

Since Thucydides times nothing changed

Sure, until Russia is as powerful as 80's Libya, 90's Iraq, or 80's Iran...
Those all prevailed in contract-mandated arbitration precedings vs. sanctions regimes, even vs. UNSC-mandated ones (unlike Russia faces).
Worst case, France could prevent immediate payment to Russia, but the monies would still be taken from DCNS accounts and put into escrow.
Russia hardly needs immediate payment, and the escrow scenario hurts France/DCNS just as badly.

Do think China LHD better the mistral?

France Completes Work on Second Russian-Commissioned Warship

France has completed its construction of a second Russian-commissioned Mistral helicopter carrier in Saint-Nazaire, a port town in the country's northwest, according to local media reports.

PARIS (Sputnik) — The Presse Ocean outlet cited a Force Ouvriere union representative, Nathalie Durand-Prinborgne, confirming that construction of the Sevastopol has finished.

Neither the DCNR naval defense company or its affiliate STX has so far commented on the reports of the Sevastopol's completion.

The Sevastopol is now expected to join the Vladivostok, scheduled to be handed over to Russia in November 2014, to moor in the port of Saint-Nazaire pending French President Francois Hollande's decision.

Hollande suspended the deliveries under the two countries' $1.5 billion contract signed in 2011 as an expression of his disapproval of Moscow's alleged role in the Ukrainian conflict, claims disputed by the Kremlin.

A French delegation visited Moscow earlier in the week to resolve the ongoing dispute, but a Russian source familiar with negotiations said Friday they did not yield any results.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20150530/1022744280.html#ixzz3bcXoz6o9

Book. wrote:Do think China LHD better the mistral?

The specs look better compared to the Mistral. The only reason that Russia ever went for the Mistrals was because of
Serdyukov and Medvedev's attempt to make friendly with NATO. All that Russia got in return was the bloody overturn
in Libya, the Georgian attack on South Ossetia and now Ukraine.

Russia should use any pretext to cancel the Mistral contract. It is embarrassing that China can develop something like
the LHD and Russia needs to get something similar from NATO. Russia has the capacity to produce its own design and
should have done that in the first place.

Russian is at the final stage is the design of a large amphibious assault ship type "Mistral"



http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2006880

MOSCOW, may 30. /TASS /. Russia at the final stage is the design of a large amphibious assault ship, not inferior to the "Mistral".

This was reported on Saturday on air of radio "Echo of Moscow" the head of Department of shipbuilding of the Russian Navy captain 1st rank Vladimir Trapeznikov.
He noted that today the issue on the supply ship type "Mistral" is in development.
"Our military industrial complex is quite capable to build such a ship. Now is designing a large landing ship of the new project. Create its appearance at the final stage," said Trapeznikov.

kvs wrote:

Book. wrote:Do think China LHD better the mistral?

The specs look better compared to the Mistral.   The only reason that Russia ever went for the Mistrals was because of
Serdyukov and Medvedev's attempt to make friendly with NATO.   All that Russia got in return was the bloody overturn
in Libya, the Georgian attack on South Ossetia and now Ukraine.

Russia should use any pretext to cancel the Mistral contract.   It is embarrassing that China can develop something like
the LHD and Russia needs to get something similar from NATO.   Russia has the capacity to produce its own design and
should have done that in the first place.

I read the note. Type 081 LHD the 35 000 ton

Russia must 40 000 ton no less. But save cost can friend China

Thank Kvs

Possible temporary solution the repair and recovery of Ivan Rogov-class landing ships? (Aleksandr Nikolayev and Mitrofan Moskalenko are in reserve)

http://vpk-news.ru/news/25408

I actually like the Mistral design... it is a very good vessel, but now that there is talk of new upgraded designs with nuclear propulsion and more Russian oriented design I actually think it might be best if France does keep them... best for Russia that is... I am beyond caring what is best for France...

GarryB wrote:I am beyond caring what is best for France...

Same here. I was disparaging about the US insults to the French when Chirac did the honourable thing and refused to take part in the illegal US aggression against Iraq, but I will borrow one particular phrase from that time - cheese eating surrender monkeys. If any phrase captures the cowardly nature of Hollandes modern day France then that is it.

Going cheap, French WW2 army rifles - never fired, dropped once...

GarryB wrote: I am beyond caring what is best for France...

Hey Garry, look what I found....... more good news for the French



India to buy only 36 Rafales instead of 126

George1 wrote:Possible temporary solution the repair and recovery of Ivan Rogov-class landing ships? (Aleksandr Nikolayev and Mitrofan Moskalenko are in reserve)

http://vpk-news.ru/news/25408

Ivan Rogoff is kinda of Karel Doorman logistic support ship. Wht in case of Russia IMHO is much better option. Helo carrier is better to use as ASW or air support but still well armed.

jhelb wrote:
India to buy only 36 Rafales instead of 126

...well this was inevitable. France is destroying their reputation (weapon-manufacturing wise) piece by piece.

I don't think the reduction of the Rafale order is really conected with the Mistral's.

The reactivation of the Ivan Rogov ships sounds feasible, although they would require new engines among other things according to the link above

these ships are in good condition, but to restore their technical readiness, if necessary, will require a considerable amount of repairs, including the replacement of the main power plants," - a spokesman said

Mike E wrote:

jhelb wrote:
India to buy only 36 Rafales instead of 126

...well this was inevitable. France is destroying their reputation (weapon-manufacturing wise) piece by piece.

actually, ill have to say they won with this one. they still made a sale, and more importantly it was government to government, no muss, no fuss deal.

collegeboy16 wrote:

Mike E wrote:

jhelb wrote:
India to buy only 36 Rafales instead of 126

...well this was inevitable. France is destroying their reputation (weapon-manufacturing wise) piece by piece.

actually, ill have to say they won with this one. they still made a sale, and more importantly it was government to government, no muss, no fuss deal.

Guarantee all the Indian mil forums will be exploding with happiness at the news of their purchase, convinced that they've bought superior Western hardware, which is so much better than any Russian export option.

Stay on topic guys

The 'Moskalenko' around 2009.....it almost got scrapped during Serduyokov's tenure




'Aleksandar Nikolaev' - 2007

It looks like this will be the new Russian LHD similar to Mistral ship.

would that be using the modular construction techniques ala Mistral which speeds construction time...?

Russia-France Mistral Talks Expected to Continue in June

Russia and France will discuss the deal for the delivery of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers built for the Russian Navy in June after negotiators failed to reach an agreement in May, a source told RIA Novosti.

"The Mistral talks will definitely continue. No specific date has been set for the next meeting since last round of talks yielded no results. Both sides have to get ready for the talks," a source said, adding that the negotiations would take place in June.

Last week, a French team visited Moscow but the mediators were unable to achieve any progress since France laid down "absolutely unacceptable" terms. According to a source familiar with the situation, the French insisted on the "annulment of bank accounts" among other things.

Russia and France signed a $1.3 billion deal for the delivery of two Mistral-class ships in 2011.

The deliveries were put on hold in late 2014 over Moscow's alleged involvement in the Ukrainian civil war. The Kremlin has repeatedly denied these groundless claims and pushed for peace in the war-torn nation.

Should France fail to deliver the ships, Russia is entitled to a full refund, as well as penalties. In total, Moscow reportedly seeks $1.29 billion compensation, which France does not want to pay.

Russia wants $890 million already transferred to France back, as well as a compensation for the purchase of the equipment and crew training. France is reportedly willing to pay some $870 million, a sum Moscow deems unacceptable.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150604/1022930509.html#ixzz3c5MJWmGM