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Well, even if France backs up Russia could build the ships by themselves, and France does need the money.
Well, even if France backs up Russia could build the ships by themselves, and France does need the money.
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Mistral News thread
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
EKS- Posts : 33
Points : 32
Join date : 2014-09-03
Location : The Netherlands
I don´t think money is the problem in the shipbuilding industry, but the legacy of the situation of the 90´s. It takes time to rebuild.
I don´t doubt that the industry can build large vessel and in this case small carriers, but they have to re invent the production proces.
In the Mistrals case. Russia can build the stern of the ship. But do they have the now how to build the front of the Mistral.
We don t know witch technologie France till now have transfert.
I don´t doubt that the industry can build large vessel and in this case small carriers, but they have to re invent the production proces.
In the Mistrals case. Russia can build the stern of the ship. But do they have the now how to build the front of the Mistral.
We don t know witch technologie France till now have transfert.
AlfaT8- Posts : 2488
Points : 2479
Join date : 2013-02-02
Honestly, i not very optimistic about France handing over both ships later, i believe that they would rather pay the penalties and further damage there image, then hand those ships over, and then try to create the image of a united NATO against the "evil" Russians......... pathetic.
This event clearly illustrates the fact, that Europe is nothing more then a collection of vassal states, under Washington's control.
Perhaps Russia should revisit Project 11780.
This event clearly illustrates the fact, that Europe is nothing more then a collection of vassal states, under Washington's control.
Perhaps Russia should revisit Project 11780.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
France is the 52nd US state, after the UK of course!
AlfaT8- Posts : 2488
Points : 2479
Join date : 2013-02-02
53rd, you forgot Israel.Mike E wrote:France is the 52nd US state, after the UK of course!
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
Ah, my bad!
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
AlfaT8 wrote:For the record, Russia isn't such a reliable arms producer either, with respects to the Syrian and Iranian S-300 deals, and what does Russia gain from the west for cooperating when they canceled those deals, Ukraine on fire, Sanctions and NATO troops/bases near Russia's border.......... perfect just perfect.magnumcromagnon wrote:Hachimoto wrote:hum no mistral delivery, according to Hollande all conditions are not satisfied from Russian side (pointing at ukraine crisis).
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/europe/manifestations-en-ukraine/crise-en-ukraine-la-france-ne-livrera-pas-les-navires-mistral-a-la-russie-dans-le-contexte-actuel_684841.html
LMAO Hollande is such a jackass and has the lowest approval rating of any French president in recent memory, now they will have to pay Russia back in full plus interest stipulated in the contract, the Russian's already learned how to make Mistral's and their blueprints were already delivered. I'm hoping Modi is watching closely and decides to cancel the wretched and over-priced Rafale contract in favor of Mig-35's, if France want's to be an unreliable arms producer than they should pay for it.
I agree, but their's some indication the likes of Syria/Iran may get the likes of S-350E/S-400 instead, only time will tell.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
Well, both of those deals were with countries under very heavy sanctions, so it isn't all on Russia.
Feldmarszal- Posts : 28
Points : 29
Join date : 2014-03-18
Age : 36
Location : Poland
I'd love to see France sell anyone as much as a grape if they refuse to pay their compensation clauses. They don't send the ships or don't pay the reparations- noone else will buy their shit. And considering how much they've been selling to India and the Middle East, that would mean a hell of a lot of disgruntled shipyard and factory workers. They might save themselves what? 3 billion euros? And lose their reputation built over the past 50 years in return? Good luck with that.
Feldmarszal- Posts : 28
Points : 29
Join date : 2014-03-18
Age : 36
Location : Poland
Considering the French love for manufacturing and selling weapons, tendencies to stick it to the Americans, play independent, and if need be- mass in the streets, I really think that Russia's response to stopping the deal is the least of French gov's worries.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
They've actually been blackmailed (sort of) when the US sued one of their banks for ten BILLION!
higurashihougi
higurashihougi- Posts : 3392
Points : 3479
Join date : 2014-08-13
Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.
http://www.rferl.org/content/hollande-cease-fire-political-deal-conditions-for-mistral-delivery/26566967.html
Heh heh, after all the ship is a big sum of money and with the menance of financial crisis is still visible, nobody want to waste any kinds of money.
French President Francois Hollande has said a cease-fire and a political settlement in Ukraine are conditions for France to deliver the first of two Mistral-class warships to Russia.
Speaking on the sidelines of a NATO summit in Wales on September 4, Hollande said the contract to supply the vessels was neither cancelled nor suspended.
Heh heh, after all the ship is a big sum of money and with the menance of financial crisis is still visible, nobody want to waste any kinds of money.
Feldmarszal- Posts : 28
Points : 29
Join date : 2014-03-18
Age : 36
Location : Poland
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29060398
"A French diplomat earlier said the contract was suspended until November, and the delay "could cost us 1bn euros"."
Nice deal, right there
"A French diplomat earlier said the contract was suspended until November, and the delay "could cost us 1bn euros"."
Nice deal, right there
Hachimoto- Posts : 142
Points : 148
Join date : 2013-02-08
Age : 39
Feldmarszal wrote:I meant gas as gasoline, though they could probably import that from somewhere else. Still, no heating=muslims freezing in a cold +10 degrees during winter...
Got something to tell about Muslims ? come on
Feldmarszal- Posts : 28
Points : 29
Join date : 2014-03-18
Age : 36
Location : Poland
I don't, but saying that France (where a religious minority gets to set the rules for the whole country) is a shining beacon of western civilization is pretty thin. And by taking a page out of the US Manual for Spreading Freedom, it would be pretty easy to justify attacking France as an anti-terrorist operation
Hachimoto- Posts : 142
Points : 148
Join date : 2013-02-08
Age : 39
Feldmarszal wrote:I don't, but saying that France (where a religious minority gets to set the rules for the whole country) is a shining beacon of western civilization is pretty thin. And by taking a page out of the US Manual for Spreading Freedom, it would be pretty easy to justify attacking France as an anti-terrorist operation
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
Holy crap! Maybe it is a good thing for Russia!Feldmarszal wrote:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29060398
"A French diplomat earlier said the contract was suspended until November, and the delay "could cost us 1bn euros"."
Nice deal, right there
EKS- Posts : 33
Points : 32
Join date : 2014-09-03
Location : The Netherlands
Only if the french are going to pay. International politics and relation aren't simplistic. There are a range of important topic where countries have to agree on. The fine for non complying the agreement is just one of them. It's leverage. No more no less.
I think the mistrals Will be deliverd. And About the fine, it Will be part of the negotiations for the reconstruction of relations. That is how it's works.
I think the mistrals Will be deliverd. And About the fine, it Will be part of the negotiations for the reconstruction of relations. That is how it's works.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
No payment = no gas! France can't change that, at least for the next ten years!
higurashihougi- Posts : 3392
Points : 3479
Join date : 2014-08-13
Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.
Mike E wrote:No payment = no gas! France can't change that, at least for the next ten years!
Yeah, even in Germany, less than 50% of electricity is from renewable source. And a sufficent oil/gas supply from the Middle East allies need times to mature.
But then, with this event West is pushing research in renewable power plants and fuel management. Just like the 1972 crisis is a reason for the application of many new technologies. I am really worry about how long gas and oil can play as a trump card for Russia.
Some articles said that many Russia factories used old machines from the Soviet era, and the Russian goods is not very competitive in the international market. That makes me worry.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
Not only electricity, but housing heat etc... Gas powers stovetops, furnaces, fireplaces.
- Those articles are lies, there is no "need" to be worried.
- Those articles are lies, there is no "need" to be worried.
navyfield- Posts : 118
Points : 69
Join date : 2013-05-27
hey genious ,France doesnt use Russias gas at all... just pointing that out
higurashihougi- Posts : 3392
Points : 3479
Join date : 2014-08-13
Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.
navyfield wrote:hey genious ,France doesnt use Russia gas at all... just pointing that out:lol:
With respect, may I ask who told you that ?
Werewolf- Posts : 5927
Points : 6116
Join date : 2012-10-25
navyfield wrote:hey genious ,France doesnt use Russias gas at all... just pointing that out
http://www.energydelta.org/mainmenu/energy-knowledge/country-gas-profiles/country-gas-profile-france#t42771
They import gas alone from russia 13% and that is 2010 the figures for 2012 was 16%.France gas import
By country of origin (in mcm) 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010e %Total 2010
Norway 12286 13683 14653 15259 15227 31.13%
Netherlands 9420 8837 9073 8327 7450 15.23%
Russia 7311 5955 6772 7409 6654 13.60%
Algeria 6827 7254 7044 7110 6367 13.02%
Nigeria 3966 2929 2245 1167 3629 7.42%
Egypt 2109 1067 938 1427 665 1.36%
Qatar 459 2503 5.12%
Trinidad & Tobago 360 246 0.50%
Yemen 98 0.20%
Non-specified/Other 3582 4091 5721 5616 6078 12.43%
Total 45501 43816 46446 47134 48917 100%
%Total Consumption 100.30% 98.62% 100.78% 105.78% 98.28%
The latest figures 2013/2014 are around 20%.
The past 2 years alone the demands for russian gas alone in Germany raised from 27% to 37% that is huge increase and since Russia is almost a monopoly in gas supply they will stay as the main gas supplier for decades.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
navyfield wrote:hey genious ,France doesnt use Russias gas at all... just pointing that out
Hey genius, go do some research instead of spewing crap. Even if it didn't power France (it does), it would affect the EU and Euro etc.