Mistral News thread

1)They had busy all their builders facilities ,and will have been more expensive to build one ,since it
will have required to build new naval facilities and start a new design and build from scratch everything.
Will have been far more expensive to build it themselves and slower is is done from zero.

Actually it might have been cheaper to build it themselves.. the problem was time... it would have taken 5 years at least to just get some competing designs together, with 3-4 years to test and decide which they will build. Add to that another 5 years to build and test and fit out and it would not be ready before 2022 and event then there is no guarantee it will not have any fundamental problems in design.

this way they get a ship with all the problems sorted out and fixed and ready for handing over this year...

2)Will allow Russian Engineers to learn how France do their warships ,and learn new ways to build modern warships
that will significantly enhance their knowledge on building warships in a more elegant and modern stylish way. I will have preffered however the Spain transport ship is far nicer looking and allow vertical landing planes too ,in case Russia in the future build them.

that is a valid point, though the South Koreans building a shipyard for Russia will also help them learn new modular production techniques too.

IF france cancel the deal.. it will not matter for Russia ,because their Engineers already saw the whole thing how France do it.. so will be far easier now for Russia to do it themselves ,without having to reinvent the wheel . But as a bonus Russia could the mistral much better ,with the capability to operate in the north Pole ,break ICE and even carry weapons.

The French will have handed over the blueprints and production techniques etc etc already.

The Russian version of the Mistral will be designed for arctic operations and Russian helos and will all be equipped with Russian weapons.

What will be nice for Russia to do is an aircraft carrier that can operate as submarine too.. That is Submarine First and warship second..

The main problem there would be size, and the vulnerability of the vessel during surfacing and submerging procedures.

A sub like Typhoon with the main tower offset to one side and a landing strip added to the top of the deck for UCAVs would be very interesting... but I rather suspect that replacing all the missile tubes with UKSK launchers... say 40 of them, and S-400 and S-500 launch tubes there as well would be rather interesting. With 40 UKSK launch systems that would be 320 cruise missiles, plus say 256 S-400s and 12-24 S-500s would be a formidible loadout that would allow the land attack of most countries plus the potential for airspace denial to create no fly zones in the middle of the ocean.

of course to operate the S-400 and S-500 properly it will need radar intel, so a Ka-31, or UAV based high flying radar equipped aircraft would be needed...

GarryB wrote:The French weapons on board were quite frankly pathetic... from memory the standard load out was twin mistral launchers and about 4 x 50 cal HMGs... a joke really.

Yes the french armament on the Mistral is pretty ridiculous, and also inadequate to the task that the Navy wants the ship to play. A Mistral (probably the Vladivostok ) will be the flag ship of the new built Mediterranian fleet. This small task force needs adequately armed ships, because russian sailors will work in a difficult enviroment as the "Mar Mediterraneo" is, with the presence of many modern western navies (Italy, France, Spain,Turkey,Greece, Israel) and many wester air forces, that have a key role in the dominance of a close sea.
I think Mistral must be equipped with very modern short range missile systems, and maybe with a medium SAM, the S-350E for example.
It will be fantastic to see a Mistral armed with an S-400 system, but i think it is too much for the ship.
An S-350 system in good enough

As I know, both Mistral ships will be in Pacific fleet. There is no need for Mistral in Black sea fleet. The other fleet for Mistral is Northern fleet.

I suspect the ultimate plans for the Mistrals is for the first two to be base on the Pacific and the second two in the northern fleet.

If they can make the changes to the Ivan Gren to make it more of an ocean going vessel then such vessels would be ideal in the Black and Baltic sea fleets.

The navy said just one month ago that the second Mistral will be deployed on the mediterranean fleet. That's quite a new, I heard about this fact some weeks ago.

Here you have the article of the MoscowTimes:


The Russian navy said during Sunday’s Navy Day celebrations that a French-made Mistral-class carrier will become the flagship of its budding Mediterranean Fleet, while Western leaders continue to pressure Paris into withholding the delivery of the warships.

Russia ordered two Mistral ships from France in 2011 in a deal worth 1.2 billion euros ($1.7 billion), but events in Ukraine have elicited Western calls for the contract to be torn up amid fears that Moscow has designs on reforging its lost empire. The calls intensified following the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine on July 17, which several Western leaders have pinned on Russian-backed separatists in the region.

France has so far stood its ground on the delivery of the first ship, the Sevastopol, which is set to be handed over by the end of 2014. However, Paris has said that the delivery of a second Mistral warship, the Vladivostok, in 2016 depends on Russia’s future behavior regarding the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.

What’s in a Name?
The Soviet Union maintained a permanent presence in the Mediterranean Sea toward the end of the Cold War. Known as the Fifth Squadron, the unit there drew many of its vessels from the Black Sea Fleet, whose base at the Crimean city of Sevastopol put it closer to the Mediterranean Sea than any other Russian fleet.

Some Western analysts have said the first ship will be stationed in Sevastopol, which Russia annexed from Ukraine in March. Given that the ship is called the Sevastopol, that assertion seemed logical.

But logic does not always count for much. A navy spokesman told Interfax on Sunday that the second ship has “every opportunity” to become the flagship of the Mediterranean Fleet by 2016.

If that turns out to be the case, it stands to reason that the Vladivostok will be based in Sevastopol due to the port’s proximity to the Mediterranean Sea.

The port of Sevastopol’s underdeveloped infrastructure makes it difficult to imagine either Mistral being stationed there, but with two years remaining before the Vladivostok joins the Mediterranean Fleet, there is time for the facilities to be brought up to scratch.

The Black Sea Fleet’s admiral, Alexander Vitko, said Sunday that the Sevastopol base is due for some serious upgrades, but he did not say whether a berth for a Mistral carrier was on the agenda, Interfax reported.

“We have begun the construction of new naval stations and airfields,” Vitko said, adding that new aircraft for the fleet have already been flown in, and that new ships will begin arriving this year to receive them.

A port capable of housing and servicing Mistral-class carriers is currently being built in Vladivostok, the home of the Pacific Fleet, and is due to be completed in 2015.

Future Plans
Looking further ahead, the Black Sea Fleet will receive 20 new vessels by 2020, Vitko said during the celebrations in Sevastopol — where, for the first time since the fall of the Soviet Union, combat vessels banded together to put on a live-fire exercise against helpless barges before crowds of Crimean residents gathered on the shoreline.

Vitko said that the festivities were attended by 50 combat units from the Black Sea Fleet, and that the combat capabilities displayed on Sunday were “about 10 percent of what we were able to show.”

A similar display of naval power took place on Sunday at the Northern Fleet’s station of Severomorsk near Murmansk, with President Vladimir Putin in attendance.

Standing aboard the deck of the only aircraft carrier that Russia has ever built, the Admiral Kuznetsov, Putin declared that one of Russia’s primary goals is strengthening the combat capabilities of the Black Sea Fleet.

The rearmament of the Black Sea Fleet, the re-establishment of the Mediterranean Fifth Squadron, and the ongoing saga of the Mistral carriers are taking place against the backdrop of the Russian navy’s larger modernization drive, which itself is part of Russia’s $700 billion military rearmament campaign through 2020.

The Defense Ministry announced Sunday that the navy will receive more than 50 warships and support vessels of various classes by the end of 2014, RIA Novosti reported.

Among these vessels are several new hulls of the Borei- and Yasen-type nuclear-powered submarines, new diesel electric submarines, and a spectrum of support vessels such as patrol boats, rescue boats, minesweepers, transport and assault ships.

The Defense Ministry added that a number of these vessels are destined for the Black Sea Fleet. In the near term, the base at Sevastopol is set to receive six Krivak-class frigates and six Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines. Meanwhile, the Caspian Flotilla will receive several of the new Buyan-class corvettes.

They are upgrading Vladivostok and Murmansk to take Mistral carriers which suggests that the Mistrals will be based there. they might be deployed to the Med or further afield temporarily being based in the black or baltic but I suggest eventually when the Ivan Grens and their replacements are ready the Mistrals will go back to Murmansk and Vladivostock.

What you say it's correct but remember that the black sea fleet is having lot of trubles and nowadays it is the only russian fleet that had war experience and has to face difficult situations as the Syrian, Lybian, Ukranian civil war. And anyway it is said that the homeport of the Sevastopol will be Novorossiysk, if you look on the internet you will find hundreds of tidings. I think it's finnaly useless to allocate a mistral in the Nord Fleet, where there is no need for an amphibious assault ship.

redgiacomo wrote:What you say it's correct but  remember that the black sea fleet is having lot of trubles and nowadays it is the only russian fleet that had war experience and has to face difficult situations as the Syrian, Lybian, Ukranian civil war. And anyway it is said that the homeport of the  Sevastopol will be Novorossiysk, if you look on the internet you will find hundreds of tidings. I think it's finnaly useless to allocate a mistral in the Nord Fleet, where there is no need for an amphibious assault ship.

Mistrals will be in Pacific and Northern fleets. What is the use of Mistral in small land locked seas? Russian Mistrals have ice capabilities, so they are meant for northern seas. Northern fleet Mistral will support operations in Arctic regions and in Atlantic. Ivan Gren ships are enough for Black sea and Baltic fleets as the are smaller seas and all points could be also reached with VDV divisions and ground forces.

Mistral will have a key role in the Mediterranean, not in the Black Sea.
Even in Wikipedia there is written that the "Sebastopol" will be based in Novorossiysk.
Anyway I think that we must wait   untill everything is more clear, because on the other hand it's true that Russian Navy started a modernization of Murmansk.

In time of Syrian chemical weapons transports from Syria, there were both Peter the great cruiser and Kuznetsov carrier in Mediterranean sea and both are from Northern fleet. Same could Mistral from Northern fleet operate in Mediterranean sea if needed. But still it is more logical to have it in Northern fleet, where it could operate together with carrier and support Arctic region.

Yes but during the turning point of the conflict, when USA was about to attack there were just a pair of landing ships from the black sea and the "Moscow", that was having an exercise in the atlantic and that spent a lot of time to arrive in Tartus.
Anyway look for some news, you will find that there are lot of rumors about what i'm saying.
I believe that what you say is completely right, but if the Russian Navy decides to change idea we can not discuss.

But talking about something else, What about the embarked KA-52? Is it ready?

3 Ka-52K will be delivered by the end of this year to the Navy.

redgiacomo wrote:Yes but during the turning point of the conflict, when USA was about to attack there were just a pair of landing ships from the black sea and the "Moscow", that was having an exercise in the atlantic and that spent a lot of time to arrive in Tartus.
Anyway look for some news, you will find that there are lot of rumors  about what i'm saying.
I believe that what you say is completely right, but if the Russian Navy decides to change idea we can not discuss.

But talking about something else, What about the embarked KA-52? Is it ready?

yes rus navy barely got assets to cover small syria in crysis times.
mistrals will be used everywhere mostly in black mediteranian and blatic seas no doubt , the pacific and north fleet story is for easing political tensions.

yes... Putin is all about moving Russian military forces to placate the west... NOT.

Russia has interests in the north and conflicting interests with Japan and the Mistrals are part of the solution to those two issues.

There is little practical purpose to basing them in either the black or baltic seas... except for very short periods to sabre rattle... in other words the political positioning is in the black and baltic seas... not the north or the pacific.

hum no mistral delivery, according to Hollande all conditions are not satisfied from Russian side (pointing at ukraine crisis).

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/europe/manifestations-en-ukraine/crise-en-ukraine-la-france-ne-livrera-pas-les-navires-mistral-a-la-russie-dans-le-contexte-actuel_684841.html

Hachimoto wrote:hum no mistral delivery, according to Hollande all conditions are not satisfied from Russian side (pointing at ukraine crisis).

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/europe/manifestations-en-ukraine/crise-en-ukraine-la-france-ne-livrera-pas-les-navires-mistral-a-la-russie-dans-le-contexte-actuel_684841.html

LMAO Hollande is such a jackass and has the lowest approval rating of any French president in recent memory, now they will have to pay Russia back in full plus interest stipulated in the contract, the Russian's already learned how to make Mistral's and their blueprints were already delivered. I'm hoping Modi is watching closely and decides to cancel the wretched and over-priced Rafale contract in favor of Mig-35's, if France want's to be an unreliable arms producer than they should pay for it.

Thats good news...
Russia don't need Mistral at all..with the 1.6 $billions + penalty.they can now build a stealth Super Cruiser Kirov2 with 4-5 helicopter landers ,S-400 and S-500s and Kaliber missiles.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Hachimoto wrote:hum no mistral delivery, according to Hollande all conditions are not satisfied from Russian side (pointing at ukraine crisis).

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/europe/manifestations-en-ukraine/crise-en-ukraine-la-france-ne-livrera-pas-les-navires-mistral-a-la-russie-dans-le-contexte-actuel_684841.html

LMAO Hollande is such a jackass and has the lowest approval rating of any French president in recent memory, now they will have to pay Russia back in full plus interest stipulated in the contract, the Russian's already learned how to make Mistral's and their blueprints were already delivered. I'm hoping Modi is watching closely and decides to cancel the wretched and over-priced Rafale contract in favor of Mig-35's, if France want's to be an unreliable arms producer than they should pay for it.

For the record, Russia isn't such a reliable arms producer either, with respects to the Syrian and Iranian S-300 deals, and what does Russia gain from the west for cooperating when they canceled those deals, Ukraine on fire, Sanctions and NATO troops/bases near Russia's border.......... perfect just perfect.

Awww yes. The sweet words to my ears.

Now France will have tobpay back Russia more than what the ship costs. All the while, the shipyard was in trouble.

This will damage Frances image in being able to supply gear to third parties and as well, Russia does not end up with these useless ships, and gets the money back. Maybe they can use this to fund their next carrier or Destroyer.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-03/france-folds-suspends-shipment-russian-warship-nato-allies-pleased?page=2

sepheronx wrote:Awww yes. The sweet words to my ears.

Now France will have tobpay back Russia more than what the ship costs. All the while, the shipyard was in trouble.

This will damage Frances image in being able to supply gear to third parties and as well, Russia does not end up with these useless ships, and gets the money back. Maybe they can use this to fund their next carrier or Destroyer.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-03/france-folds-suspends-shipment-russian-warship-nato-allies-pleased?page=2

I agree, better to build a aircraft carrier and Ivan gren ships for the pacific fleet. The Mistral deal was hanging lose from the beginning.
If RuNavy want heli carriers, they would have to build them themselves. South Korea would also cave in from US.

Russia already said that they will build them there selfs.

After elections in France, Le Pen will deliver them.

Eventualy France will hand over both ships to the Russian navy. This is just a political game. The western pressure on France to cancel this deal is huge. So it´s a balancing act.

Also I think Russia will benefit from this deal. The enhancing of capability is nescesary, with the aging amfibious fleet. It will give the admirals, to present to the president, more options. I would support seeing four of the ships in the Russian navy. It also will give the shipbuilding industry the chance of mastering other production techniques. And also the workers can learn some skills. Let´s remember, al of the aircraft carriers were build in sovjet Ukraine. Skills and know how are lost over the past decades. It will give russia shipbuilding industry a new boost.

 EKS! It is always nice to have another Dutch on the site...

They have to deliver the Mistrals, or their weapon delivering reputation will plummet among other repercussions.

Thanks Mike E!

Ofcourse there reputation as a independent supplier is at stake, but i´ts short term politics and ilogical things happen in short term politics. It´s almost like some sabre ratteling. But they (the french) will deliver eventualy or pay the price.