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    Mistral News thread

    GarryB
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    Mistral News thread - Page 9 Empty Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:23 pm

    With the proliferation of MANPADS I would think the 16 naval marines that can operate from a Ka-29 are sufficient.

    That means each helo can drop a complete platoon and with its rotors folded the Mistral can probably carry 3 times more Ka-29s than Mi-38s.

    The Ka-29 is already navalised and seems to me to be suited to the job.

    Perhaps if they weren't going to carry Ka-52s and used standard height hangars that the Mi-38 would make more sense as to use the Ka-29 they would have to raise the ceiling height in the Hangar, which is a significant redesign.

    They are using taller hangars anyway so it is cheaper and easier to use the Helix variants than rush a folding rotor version of the Mi-38.

    Having said all that, perhaps for special missions where a single team of 40 is needed then instead of 3 Ka-29s they could send in one Mi-38, but you would want excellent DIRCMs and other defence systems on these helos.

    Of course there is no variant of the Mi-38 I know of that has a 30mm cannon like the Ka-29 can.

    BTW it is a forum rule that your first post should be an introduction in the "Introductions and rules" section.
    Please post a new thread and introduce yourself to everyone so we have some idea whom we are talking to... Smile
    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:18 am

    GarryB wrote:With the proliferation of MANPADS I would think the 16 naval marines that can operate from a Ka-29 are sufficient.

    That means each helo can drop a complete platoon and with its rotors folded the Mistral can probably carry 3 times more Ka-29s than Mi-38s.

    The Ka-29 is already navalised and seems to me to be suited to the job.

    Perhaps if they weren't going to carry Ka-52s and used standard height hangars that the Mi-38 would make more sense as to use the Ka-29 they would have to raise the ceiling height in the Hangar, which is a significant redesign.

    They are using taller hangars anyway so it is cheaper and easier to use the Helix variants than rush a folding rotor version of the Mi-38.

    Having said all that, perhaps for special missions where a single team of 40 is needed then instead of 3 Ka-29s they could send in one Mi-38, but you would want excellent DIRCMs and other defence systems on these helos.

    Of course there is no variant of the Mi-38 I know of that has a 30mm cannon like the Ka-29 can.

    BTW it is a forum rule that your first post should be an introduction in the "Introductions and rules" section.
    Please post a new thread and introduce yourself to everyone so we have some idea whom we are talking to... Smile

    What about a naval version of Ka-60 helos?? Smaller and with the same capacity of troops (16)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:05 pm

    While the Ka-60 has a shrouded tail rotor... it still has a tail rotor which is very dangerous on a ship.

    The Ka-60 is a much smaller and lighter helo than a Ka-29, but the Ka-29s design is compact and sophisticated.

    It is very likely that the light helo on the Mistral will be the Ka-225T, which is a fairly neat little helo.

    I think the real issue is that for the moment the Ka-29 is the best assault helo for the job.
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    Mistral News thread - Page 9 Empty Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:29 am

    I should add this poster into the mix:

    Mistral News thread - Page 9 12685210

    Now I don't know how official this is, and of course it will make a lot of assumptions... I personally think it has a very very optimistic time table and think the 2015 line should be 2020 and the 2020 line should be 2025.

    Compared with the Mistral time table they will likely be delivered 2014 and 2015 for the first two, which means a year or two of testing and fitting out that it wont be well into 2018 before they are operational and fully ready for service... assuming the necessary upgrades to port facilities and support ships has been made.

    I am rather sceptical that light unmanned choppers will replace light manned helicopters too... the new model Mi-34 looks rather good, while the new Ansat could be the new Mi-2.

    The Ka-60 also looks promising, and as they have bought 300 odd engines for them I rather suspect they will be making 100+ for service.

    Having said that it seems they want to get into coaxial high speed helos including a new strike helo and new Ka-65 high speed medium/light transport, which looks like half an Mi-38, which might be the intended replacement for the Ka-29.

    Personally I don't think the Mi-17 will be replaced that quickly as it is such a good aircraft and in such widespread use around the world.

    The Hip design is the most widely produced helicopter design in the world and is still in production. It is the Mi-8, Mi-17 transports, the Mi-14 naval version with a boat hull, and was the basis of the Mi-24 and Mi-35 gunship designs.
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    Mistral News thread - Page 9 Empty Re: Mistral News thread

    Post  Russian Patriot Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:41 am

    The first Mistral class amphibious assault ship for Russia will be laid down at the start of February in a French shipyard, a military industry official told RIA Novosti on Tuesday.

    "The first of two Mistrals will be laid down in the first few days of February in St. Nazaire," said deputy director of the Federal Service for Military-Industrial Cooperation, Alexander Fomin.

    "Russia has been invited to the event," he added.

    The two countries signed a $1.2-billion contract on two French-built Mistral class amphibious assault ships including the transfer of sensitive technology in June of 2012.

    The first ship will be delivered in 2014 and the second in 2015.

    A Mistral-class ship is capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 personnel.

    A number of Russia's neighbors have expressed concern over the deal, in particular Georgia and Lithuania.

    The Russian military has said it plans to use Mistral ships in its Northern and Pacific fleets.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120124/170928027.html
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    Post  Russian Patriot Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:08 pm

    Russian Navy to Receive Mistral Warship in 3 Years

    RIA Novosti

    19:23 01/02/2012 ST. PETERSBURG, February 1 (RIA Novosti) - The first Mistral class amphibious assault ship will be put in service with the Russian Navy in 36 months, Russian Navy Commander Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said on Wednesday.

    Russia and France signed a $1.2-billion contract on two French-built Mistral class ships, including the transfer of sensitive technology, in June 2011. Two more ships are expected to be 80% built in Russia, 20% in France.

    “The first Mistral class ship was laid down at a DCNS shipyard in Saint-Nazaire on February 1,” Vysotsky said.

    The French-built ships will be named Vladivostok and Sevastopol, the admiral said.

    A Mistral-class ship is capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 personnel.

    The Russian military has said it plans to use Mistral ships in its Northern and Pacific fleets.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2012/02/mil-120201-rianovosti01.htm

    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:52 am

    Well its interesting Russia intends to arms Mistral with wide variety of offensive and defensive missiles.

    Russian DVKD like "Mistral" in contrast to the French counterparts will be equipped with shock and defensive weapons



    MOSCOW, February 24. (ARMS-TASS). The latest Russian weapons systems and the impact of a defensive purpose, including supersonic cruise missile will be installed on all four landing ships, helicopter-dock (DVKD) type "Mistral", built for the Navy as in France, and Russia. This was reported by Itar-Tass source in the military-industrial complex of Russia.
    "It is planned that the first two" Mistral "French-built, and the next two DVKD built already in Russia will be equipped with the latest domestic weapons systems, including launchers supersonic cruise missiles, the latest anti-missile systems and complexes, antiaircraft and antisubmarine warfare , "- said the source.
    Of course, "Mistrals" to take on board the shock and anti-submarine helicopters, artillery, landing craft, boats, armored vehicles and other equipment and weapons, he added.
    Work on installing the first two French-built DVKD Russian weapons will be carried out in Russia on one of her defense companies after the arrival of ships from the French Saint-Nazaire, the source said.
    In the Russian Federation Armed Forces General Staff, confirmed this information. "We do not need DVKD unarmed at the disposal of the French Navy. These" Mistrals "in fact - a giant floating conveyors with modern systems of command and control, navigation, reconnaissance and communications, a kind of helpless floating command posts, which should cover both the sea and other air combat ships and aircraft, "- said a source in the General Staff.
    "DVKD our Navy must not only control the actions of the various branches of the naval groups (surface ships, submarines, naval aviation), or even acts of interspecies gangs on the sea and ocean theaters of war, not only deliver and disembark the Marines on armored vehicles to using helicopters and landing craft, but must themselves have sufficient firepower and punch to be complete intrinsically safe multifunction warships in these groups, "- he stressed.
    "That is why Russian DVKD will be equipped with cruise missiles with increased range shooting, the latest anti-aircraft missile, and the PLO", - concluded the source of the General Staff.
    February 16 this year, Russian Navy Commander Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky told reporters that DVKD like "Mistral", which will be built in Russia in France, will be equipped only with Russian weapons. "We're going to place on our ship missiles for self defense, to enhance the security of air defense," - said the admiral. "But the helicopter component will strengthen even before the anti-tasks," - he said. Vysotsky said that such ships are important as the "ship group member, they can significantly enhance its potential." At the same time the commander in chief said that on those ships that are built for the French Navy, no weapons.
    June 17 last year, the Commander of the Navy, signed by commenting on the same day in the presence of Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, a contract worth $ 1.2 billion for construction and supply company DCNS Russian Navy DVKD two types of "Mistral", said that "the presence on board the class ships equipped command center to manage the forces of various sizes at any distance from the naval bases in the sea and ocean areas. " "The technologies of building such ships allow you to integrate into an existing project, Russian weapons systems, including domestic assault-landing craft and carrier aviation - said Vysotsky. - This ship can be used as a vehicle control, coordinating the actions of groups deployed in all areas of the oceans to deal with peacekeeping and humanitarian missions. And the capacity to provide humanitarian aid to exceed the technical parameters of their existing ships and boats, today Russia several times. "
    "These are the qualities of ships such as" Mistral "allow us to speak about the necessity and appropriateness of their use in the Russian Navy on the entire spectrum of tasks of general purpose forces in peacetime and wartime," - said if the commander in chief.
    Currently under construction in France, the first of two intended for Russia DVKD like "Mistral." The ship was laid down in the French Saint-Nazaire on February 1. First DVKD be handed over to Russia in 2014, the second - a year later.
    On these ships will be based, in particular, the Russian attack helicopters Ka-52 "Alligator", the refined version of a Marine. In September last year in the Northern Fleet completed tests on the adaptation of the multi-purpose attack helicopters for use in marine environments.
    The French side is under contract for the "Mistral" sends Russia a number of "sensitive" technologies, including a combat information management system SENIT-9, which are equipped with amphibious ships. Subsequently, these technologies will be used in the construction of two other types of DVDK "Mistral" at Russian shipyards.
    One such ship, having a displacement of 21 thousand tons and the maximum length of 210 m body, able to take on up to 16 heavy helicopters, as well as to the transfer of a specified area of ​​up to 900 troops and 70 armored vehicles.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:08 am

    The large size and deck area of these vessels would make the addition of a couple of UKSK launchers and a a few Redut launchers fairly straight forward to add. Together with a Pantsir-S1 in each corner, perhaps each backed up with a Duet turret would make this vessel very well equipped to take care of itself.

    Being a fairly large target it makes sense to equip it to not only be able to protect itself but also be able to strike back.

    Although it is a helicopter carrier I would expect it would be able to carry a HALE UAV which would be valuable in the sense that it could operate for hours or perhaps days without using too much fuel and could operate at high altitude with long range visibility for very long periods looking for threats and targets.

    The first two are going to the Pacific Fleet... I wonder if they will send them on a tour to show them off.
    Would love to get some photos of these vessels coming into harbour...
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    Post  George1 Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:31 am

    Russian Mistrals to Have Attack Weapons, Contrary to French Ones

    Newest Russian strike and defensive weapon systems including supersonic cruise missiles will be mounted on all four Mistral-class amphibious assault ships built for Russian Navy in France and Russia, reports today ITAR-TASS referring to a source in Russian defense industry.

    "As is planned, first two French-made ships and other two heli-carriers built in Russia will be armed with state-of-the-art Russian weapon systems including supersonic cruise missile launchers, and advanced missile/air/submarine defense systems", specified the source.

    Of course, Mistrals will accommodate attack and ASW helicopters, artillery, amphibious landing craft, boats, armor vehicles and other weapon systems, he added.

    Russian arms will be mounted on French-built Mistrals by one of Russian defense companies when ships arrive from Saint-Nazaire, pointed out the source.

    Russian General Staff confirmed that information. "We don't need unarmed landing ships like French Navy has. In fact, such Mistrals are huge ferries equipped with up-to-date combat control, navigation, reconnaissance and communication systems. They are a sort of vulnerable floating command posts need to be protected from the sea and the air by other ships and aviation", said a spokesman for Russian General Staff.

    "Russian assault landing ships must be capable not only to control of task forces comprising surface ships, submarines, and naval aviation, or even inter-branch groupings worldwide; not only to lift and land marines on armored personnel carriers, helicopters, and amphibious boats, but must possess sufficient strike power to be full-fledged self-protected multi-functional warships within those task forces", he emphasized.

    "With this in view, Russian Mistrals will be armed with long-range cruise missiles, newest air/missile defense systems, and antisubmarine weapons", concluded the official.

    Russian Navy Commander-in-Chief ADM Vladimir Vysotsky told reporters on Feb 16, 2012 that Mistral-class assault landing ships built for Russia would be armed only with Russian weapons. "We're going to mount missile systems for self-protection of our ships to improve their air defenses", the admiral said. "Also, we will reinforce helicopter component with antisubmarine capabilities", he added. Vysotsky stressed that such ships were important as "an element of a task force, they can considerably strengthen its combat worthiness". By the way, the commander said Mistral-class ships built for French Navy were not equipped with such arms.

    Commenting of the EUR 1.2-bln delivery contract for two Mistral-class assault landing ships signed on June 17, 2011 in the presence of Russian president Dmitry Medvedev, the Navy Commander said that "a well-equipped command post on board those ships makes possible to control forces at any distance from bases all across the globe". "Construction technology applied allows integration of Russian weapon systems including amphibious craft and deck-based aviation", emphasized Vysotsky. "Such vessel can be used as command ship coordinating operations of a task force deployed at any regions worldwide for peacekeeping and humanitarian purposes. By the way, Mistral's capabilities of this kind considerably outclass current Russian Navy's ships", Vysotsky said.

    "Those features of Mistral ships make them essential for Russian Navy throughout the whole range of tasks in war and peacetime", said the Navy Commander. At present, France builds the first ship for Russia laid down on Feb 1 in Saint-Nazaire. She is expected to joint Russian Navy in 2014, the second one – in 2015.

    In particular, those ships will accommodate Russian attack helicopters Ka-52 Alligator which adaptation for shipborne service had finished in Sept 2011 at Northern Fleet.

    According to the contract, France will transfer a number of "sensitive technologies" to Russia, including tactical data system SENIT-9 standard for Mistral-class ships. Later on, those technologies will be used in other two ships to be constructed by Russian shipyards.

    One Mistral-class assault landing ship displaces 21,000 tons, has overall length of 210 meters, is capable to accommodate up to 16 heavy helicopters, and deliver up to 900 servicemen and 70 combat vehicles to assigned region.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/newsofday/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=14415
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    Post  GarryB Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:07 pm

    The real question is are they taking advantage of the multirole capability of the vessel by putting UKSK launchers and SAMs or are they just being consistent in that every armed vessel they have is to get UKSK and SAM systems fitted.

    The original French Mistral is protected by turret launchers for the Mistral Manpad, plus a few 50 cal HMGs... a pretty token armament one would say, but then the focus of the vessel is not to be a heavily armed gunboat, its purpose is to carry helicopters and to transport marines in armoured vehicles and deliver them to a position where their landing vessels can deliver them to the beach.

    The Mistral in French service will never operate alone and will have air defence ships and Subs and likely air cover from a fixed wing carrier.

    What appears to be quite frankly pathetic armament is actually optimisation for the role it was designed for.

    The Russian navy could go the same way simply by fitting Pantsir-S1 to each corner of the vessel.

    That would result in a fairly well protected ship with 128 missiles and 8 30mm gatling guns protecting the ship with a reach with the missiles out to 20km in range, up to 15km in height and down as low as 2m off the wavetops.

    With each turret able to handle at least 4 targets each simultaneously that means 16 targets can be engaged continuously including supersonic sea skimming missiles.

    The guns add an inner layer of defence reaching to 4km in range and 3km in height and would certainly stop a pirate speed boat in its tracks with a fairly short burst of fire.

    The guns and missiles are all weather capable using MMW radar and CM wave radar and an advanced thermal and digital optics system.

    Actually a vessel this size they might actually fit 6 or 8 turrets, which would make this vessel better protected than some Frigates.

    But in addition to CIWS it seems they are going to fit UKSK launchers and Redut... the former able to hold cruise missiles of various types including supersonic anti ship weapons and land attack missiles, while the latter includes a range of SAMs potentially including 5km range lock on after launch IIR missiles called Morfei or 9M100 which is related to a new AAM developed for PAK FA and also used in the land based Vityaz system, through several new design smaller missiles related to the S-400, and the S-400 missiles including the 250km and new 400km range missile.

    It almost sounds like overkill, but I guess in a real conflict there is no such thing as carrying too many missiles.

    Certainly in terms of ship volume the Mistral design is rather enormous and there should be plenty of space for the tube launchers for the various systems.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:11 pm

    Of course if threats are detected inland from a landing the choice to either send in an attack helo to take it out, or perhaps send a scout helo or UAV to check it out and if it is well defended perhaps launch a few land attack cruise missiles to deal with the problem just makes it a bit more flexible.

    The question is what space is being taken up with these extra weapons?

    If it reduces the size of the hospital then that might be a problem because a hospital would be useful for relief efforts as well as in combat situations.

    If it reduces the number of helos or armour or marines then it becomes a problem as well.

    Should be interesting to see her sailing, though the weapons will likely be added last in Russia.
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    Post  George1 Tue May 15, 2012 3:17 pm

    The training program for Russian crews of Mistral helicopter carriers will be launched in 2014

    The training program for Russian crews of Mistral helicopter carriers will be launched in early 2014, ARMS-TASS reports. It was stated by a source from the Russian Ministry of Defense.

    "At present we are developing the training program for Russian crews of Mistral helicopter carriers in cooperation with France, - the source noted. – It will be launched in early 2014". In accordance with the program, the two Mistral crews will be training in St-Petersburg for six months with the participation of French specialists and then they will depart to France for undergoing further training.
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    The source did not specify the period necessary for training of the Russian crews in France. "The duration of their training in France is yet unknown since the program is not ready, - the source explained. – Possibly they will remain in France for the rest of 2014".


    http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2012/5/15/990/
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    Post  George1 Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:37 pm

    Construction of Mistral Sections Starts in St. Petersburg in August

    Construction of hull sections for Mistral-class amphibious ships for Russian Navy will be kicked off at Baltiysky Zavod shipyard (St. Petersburg) in Aug 2012. Part of Mistral landing ships ordered by Rosoboronexport from French DCNS in June 2011 will be constructed in Russia under the technology transfer contract.

    Purpose of the contract is to take advantage from the program in order to modernize plant and equipment of Russian shipyards as well as improve working methods. Thus, sections for Mistral ships will be built in St. Petersburg with French shipwrights involved, including those from STX France. The Mistral project was designed by DCNS and implemented by a shipyard in Saint-Nazaire. Several weeks after completion of the third Mistral-class ship for French Navy, Dixmude, the works on the first Russian ship will be started at STX France shipyard.

    Teams of Russian shipbuilders are getting familiarized with operating procedures of French yards. Deliveries of Mistral-class landing ships Vladivostok and Sevastopol to Russian Navy are scheduled in 2014 and 2015. Up to 80% of the first exported ship will be made by STX, and about 20 percent – by Baltiysky Zavod in Russia. In accordance with the contract, Russia's part in the second ship's construction will be increased twice. While two first Mistral ships will be made in Saint-Nazaire, the parties are negotiating on building of the other two ships in Russia.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15410
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    Post  George1 Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:18 am

    Construction of Mistral Hulls in Russia Costs RUR 2.7 Bln

    Construction of stern parts of first and second hulls of Mistral-class amphibious ships in Russia will cost about RUR 2.7 bln, press secretary of JSC Baltiysky Zavod Shipbuilding Pavel Gorshkov told RIA Novosti.

    Currently, JSC Baltiysky Zavod is passing supervision procedures; its assignee is recently incorporated company Baltiysky Zavod Shipbuilding.

    "Construction of stern sections of the ships' hulls will cost somewhat RUR 2.7 bln", Gorshkov said. He added that Baltiysky Zavod was executing shipbuilding contracts, in particular, the RUR 8-bln contract for an icebreaker.

    The contract for two Mistral-class landing assault ships for Russian Navy was signed by Rosoboronexport and French company DCNS in June 2011. United Shipbuilding Corporation was involved as a subcontractor. It will build 24 hull sections (40 percent of hulls). After that, the sections will be sent to France where the helicopter carriers will be assembled.

    Earlier on, press service of Baltiysky Zavod reported that metal cutting for the first Mistral ship would be started on Aug 1, 2012; for the second one – in May 2013.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15424
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    Post  ahmedfire Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:53 pm


    Nice analysis

    Russian Navy Commander Admiral Vladimir
    Vysotskiy’s statement, that having a ship like Mistral “would have allowed the Black Sea
    Fleet to accomplish its mission in 40 minutes, not 26 hours, which is how long it took us” 6
    (during the Georgia crisis) is supposed to have inspired the idea of looking abroad to
    augment Russia’s naval capabilities.

    IB_TheStrategicImpl.FrancoRussianMistralDeal
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:34 am

    The problem is that while the Mistrals will be very capable vessels I rather doubt they would ever base them in the Black Sea. The four new Mistrals they are buying will go to the Pacific Fleet to protect the Kuriles and the Northern Fleet to operate in the arctic. For the Black Sea the Ivan Gren will be good enough... along with land based aircraft support.

    It will take a few years to upgrade the infrastructure and support ships needed to operate the Mistrals effectively... the positive thing is that they are buying the vessels which clearly shows they want to have a global presence.
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    Post  George1 Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:39 am

    They could also work on sth "medium" between Mistral and Ivan gren. An LSD/LPD
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:59 am

    From what has been revealed publicly they are not satisfied with the Ivan Grens ocean going capacity, which suggests to me the replacement will be more of an ocean going longer range vessel. It also suggests to me that the Ivan Gren will be based somewhere where its lack of Ocean going capacity is not a handicap and I would suspect the Black Sea, Caspian Sea or Baltic fleet would be the most likely areas.
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    Post  TR1 Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:54 am

    Now the appropriate question is why the Russian navy needs a class of ocean going large landing ships.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:09 pm

    Russian Shipyard Starts Metal Cutting for Mistral

    Russia’s Baltic Shipyard has started metal cutting for the hull of the first Mistral class amphibious assault ship being built in France for the Russian Navy, the United Shipbuilding Corporation said on Wednesday.

    Russia’s Baltic Shipyard has started metal cutting for the hull of the first Mistral class amphibious assault ship being built in France for the Russian Navy

    Russia and France signed a $1.2-billion contract on two French-built Mistral class ships, including the transfer of sensitive technology, in June 2011. Under the contract, STX France will carry out the final assembly of the hulls from 24 blocks produced in Russia.
    STX France handed over in July the first batch of technical documentation on the Mistral project to Russian subcontractor Admiralty Shipyards.
    The Baltic Shipyard had to adapt its capacity to the specific requirements of the French project.
    The first ship, the Vladivostok, is expected to be delivered in 2014 and the second in 2015. Two more ships are expected to be built in Russia. A Mistral-class ship is capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 personnel.
    The Russian military has said it plans to use Mistral ships in its Northern and Pacific fleets.

    http://worldwide-defence.blogspot.com/2012/08/russian-shipyard-starts-metal-cutting.html
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:11 am

    Now the appropriate question is why the Russian navy needs a class of ocean going large landing ships.

    If Russia wants to be a global power and protect its interests internationally it is pretty clear they need a global capability for naval forces. 2/3rds of the world is water... which means a navy has better access than most armies, but ground forces are always more decisive and effective than air power.

    At the end of the day the US in particular and the west in general has proven it will protect its interests but will rarely lift a finger when it is not in their interests.

    Having a troop landing capability means Russia will not need to rely on anyone else and will be able to back up its word around the world.

    Not just military, but commercial and even humanitarian.

    In about 2007 or so there was a natural disaster in Myanmar, and a Russian helicopter carrier that could deliver relief with lots of trucks and helicopters that could reach distant or isolated parts of the country could have been of enormous value and saved a lot of lives.

    The good will it would have generated internationally would probably be worth quite a few million dollars in trade and good will.

    There are lots of places where the US has burned its bridges... literally... imagine heavy flooding in Serbia for example... who would offer to help, and would Serbia accept US help even if it was forthcoming.

    There were Russian rescue teams here in NZ after the Canterbury earthquake. There were Japanese teams too. Those teams moved on to Japan after the terrible earthquake there. A helicopter carrier to support their operations would have been very useful.

    Even the fact that they have a state of the art 100 bed hospital facilities means good will visits to poorer nations can change the lives of ordinary people.

    Part of Russias PR problem in the west is that even when it was on "our" side during the war there was very little information about what happened on the Eastern Front that was made public in the west. When the cold war started pretty much all the information about what happened on the eastern front came from West Germans... who understandably didn't paint the nicest picture of the new enemy and the west gladly accepted this new view... because Soviets are Russians and Russians are now the new threat... and really not a huge amount has changed since then.

    Russian soldiers flying helos to remote areas and rescuing families and delivering supplies will go a long way to change that ridiculous and ignorant image.
    medo
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    Post  medo Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:05 pm

    I doubt Russia have global naval aspirations.

    As I know, Russian Mistrals will be modified that they could operate in Arctic waters. With Global warming, Northern naval route near Arctic will become more and more important and those places are not very inhibited. With 2 Mistrals and AC in Northern fleet and 2 Mistrals in Pacific fleet they could control this Northern route and deploy soldiers with helicopter support in that area if needed. Russian army will also create arctic brigade as well as new nuclear icebreakers to be able to operate and protect this area as well as natural resources there.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:46 pm

    Don't get me wrong, the Russians are not planning an invasion of Africa or South America, what I mean is that they need a smaller more capable Navy that is more mobile and carriers mean they travel with air power, helicopter carriers and landing ships means they travel with substance (as opposed to just cruise missiles).

    The primary purpose of the first two Mistrals is to shore up protection of the Kurile islands and to bolster the Russian Navy in the Pacific. The second two will go to the Northern fleet to safeguard Russian interests in mineral and energy exploration in the north.

    The key thing however is that if something pops up like it did in Kosovo, then with mobile and more powerful groups of ships the Russians will be able to do more than give verbal support to their allies and stern words to the west.

    If tensions rose in Venezuela and the CIA tried to overthrow Chavez again, then sending some ships to visit will send a message... a Frigate is one message and a helicopter carrier with Naval Infantry and attack helos is another.

    Obviously they could never send anything that would be a real threat to the entire US Navy, but the US is hardly going to cross that line just to get a friendly puppet regime into Venezuela.

    More importantly the mobile forces needed to support Helicopter carrier operations should allow larger groups of ships to make show the flag visits to allies and potential customers.
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    Post  George1 Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:21 am

    GarryB wrote:Don't get me wrong, the Russians are not planning an invasion of Africa or South America, what I mean is that they need a smaller more capable Navy that is more mobile and carriers mean they travel with air power, helicopter carriers and landing ships means they travel with substance (as opposed to just cruise missiles).

    The primary purpose of the first two Mistrals is to shore up protection of the Kurile islands and to bolster the Russian Navy in the Pacific. The second two will go to the Northern fleet to safeguard Russian interests in mineral and energy exploration in the north.

    The key thing however is that if something pops up like it did in Kosovo, then with mobile and more powerful groups of ships the Russians will be able to do more than give verbal support to their allies and stern words to the west.

    If tensions rose in Venezuela and the CIA tried to overthrow Chavez again, then sending some ships to visit will send a message... a Frigate is one message and a helicopter carrier with Naval Infantry and attack helos is another.

    Obviously they could never send anything that would be a real threat to the entire US Navy, but the US is hardly going to cross that line just to get a friendly puppet regime into Venezuela.

    More importantly the mobile forces needed to support Helicopter carrier operations should allow larger groups of ships to make show the flag visits to allies and potential customers.

    I agree. Mistral and other new ampibious ships could also be used as weapons transfers in situations like now in syria and in a possible UN intervetion to a 3rd world country, like US army in Somalia (1993)
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:51 pm

    Does anyone have an idea if the mistral could carry a few VTOL aircraft? If yes it would make sense to start more development on the Yak-41...

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