Mistral News thread

I think a more logical direction would be the new high speed helos they are working on that could be useful as combat air patrol aircraft.

The Mistrals are too small and are optimised for helicopters and landing trucks and light armoured vehicles.

Developing a VSTOL fighter wouldn't make a lot of sense because of the performance limitations VSTOL puts on an aircraft, and the fact that the Mistral is too small for the purpose.

Instead of making a 30-40 Kton VSTOL carrier... it makes rather more sense to make a 40-50 Kton carrier with Mig-29K2s and Su-33s and later PAK FA.

The entire purpose behind the Harrier was as a small fighter that could operate from supermarket car parks in urban areas. At sea the hover capability and vertical landing capacity is only useful for landing on smaller ships, but for CAP a faster longer range fighter is more useful than one that can land on smaller ships.

I remember YAK had a design for an aircraft they called the Yak-43 which had a 25 ton thrust NK-32 engine from a Tu-160 that had a stealthy shape and could have been an awesome fighter/bomber, but the Navy went for the Kuznetsov over the Kiev class vessels and the Yak-141 didn't go anywhere.

With thrust vectoring I rather suspect the Mig-29K2 would out manouver a Harrier anyway.

Russia Found Landing Craft for Mistrals

Mistral-class amphibious assault ships being built by France for Russia can be equipped with Project 11770 Serna and Project 21820 Dugon tank-landing craft. "The problem of landing craft is absolutely contrived", an insider of Russian defense industry told Interfax. As was earlier reported, Russian defense ministry cannot find landing craft suitable to Mistral ships.

According to the interviewee, weight and dimensions of Serna and Dugon class boats fit Mistral ships well. In addition, a representative of United Shipbuilding Corporation stressed there would be no delays in implementation of the Mistral project because of landing craft issue.

"Speaking about selection of landing boats for Mistral-class ships, we have plenty of time to make right choice", said the interviewee. As for him, an offer to equip the ships with French-built boats is considered as well. In particular, Rosoboronexport and Russian defense ministry are talking over such issues with French shipbuilding company DCNS.

Earlier on, Russian newspaper Izvestiya referring to its own source in military industry wrote that Russian defense ministry refused to equip Mistral-class amphibious ships with French-produced landing catamarans L-CAT. Meanwhile, initially planned to be stationed in Mistrals, Russian Murena-class landing craft happened to be too large to fit in the ship.

Project 11770 Serna boats are 25.8-meter long and displace 61 tons. Such boat is capable to carry either one tank or two infantry fighting vehicles (armored personnel carriers) or 92-men landing party. Possible use of Serna-class boats in Mistrals was earlier described by naval arms expert Vladimir Scherbakov in his interview to Izvestiya.

Project 21820 Dugon tank-landing boats are 45-meter long and displace 280 tons. Each of them may carry either 3 tanks or 5 IFVs/APCs or 140 tons of cargo.

Two Mistral-class amphibious assault ships are being built for Russian Navy under the EUR 1.2 bln-contract tied with France in June 2011. The first ship is to be completed in 2014, and the second one – in 2015. According to contract option, other two ships are planned to be built at Russian shipyards. Air wing of each Russian Mistral will consist of 8 attack helicopters Ka-52K and 8 transport/combat helicopters Ka-29.

http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15856

Media: Russian Navy Quantified Helicopters for Mistrals

Air wings consisting of 30 helicopters Ka-52K and Ka-29 will be formed for each of the two French-built Mistral-class amphibious assault ships; Russian Navy command submitted such proposal to defense ministry, an insider told Izvestiya.

"The proposal on helicopters for Mistral landing ships is ready. It will be 30 helicopters for each ship, almost equally Ka-29 and Ka-52K (both designed by the Kamov bureau). That will be ship-based and land-based air wings. Such reserve will make possible to change helicopters rapidly for repairs or replacement", said the defense ministry's officer.

As for him, ship-based air wings will be formed depending on a mission.

"Each Mistral-class ship may carry 16 helicopters, but their number will vary depending on assigned tasks", pointed out the interviewee.

Construction of experimental shipborne variant of Ka-52 Alligator attack helicopter has been already started at the Progress plant in Primorsky Krai. The first chopper is supposed to start trials in 2014. Naval Ka-52 will have folded wings and rotor blades, ballonets for emergency splashdown, and antiship missiles.

"Adaptation of 10 transport/combat helicopters Ka-29 for Mistral ships started this year, too", said a representative of Russian defense industry. Naval Ka-29 had been produced in series since 1979 at the Kumertau Aircraft Productions. In total, about 60 helicopters were made; some of them remained in Ukraine after the USSR breakup. After 1991, only single helicopters were produced.

"Now the question is not navy-adaptation of Ka-29, it is shipborne helicopter and doesn't need such modification as land-based Ka-52. The only thing must be done is to upgrade arms and radioelectronics. Production of those excellent helicopters should be resumed", emphasized the interviewee, writes Izvestiya.

Naval arms expert Vladimir Scherbakov considers shaping of air wings for Mistrals with such big reserve logical but not sufficient.

"The main problem is that the purpose of these ships is still unclear. Usefulness of Mistral-class ship could be obvious if it would be a core of amphibious group acting only as a strike helicopter- and troop-carrier. Such group must also include 3-4 large-size landing ships like Ivan Gren to carry armored vehicles, and escort ships [frigates and corvettes]", he concluded.

According to Vzglyad, Moscow and Paris signed the contract for two Mistral-class ships in June 2011. The contract value is EUR 1.2 bln.

The first ship for Russia was laid down early in Feb 2012 and is planned to join Russian Navy in 2014. The second Mistral-class ship is to be commissioned in 2015.

First two ships will be named Vladivostok and Sevastopol. Besides, all Mistral-class ships within Russian Navy will be armed with latest Russian-made offensive and defensive arms including supersonic cruise missiles.

It was reported early in Aug that Russia had started production of trial helicopters Ka-52 to be based on Mistral ships.

Russian Navy will start enlisting officers and sailors to the Mistral crews on a competitive basis in 2013.

As was said in a US Congress report published in May, the Unites States and its Baltic allies were concerned over Mistral ships to be sold to Russia.

http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15960

"The main problem is that the purpose of these ships is still unclear.

These will be multipurpose vessels and this report about the air wing having 30 aircraft confirms that.

On a humanitarian mission you don't want attack helicopters, transport helos and landing vessels with amphibious vehicles or all terrain vehicles or even just bulldozers and engineer vehicles to clear roads and move debris.

For a good will visit to a Pacific Island nation to offer construction support after a heavy storm, or just a visit to provide free medial assistance to outlying islands.

Their might be peacekeeping missions that might involve going to rocks in open water that might have multiple claimants where Russia, as a neutral party might be able to help.

Then there is meeting aggression with aggression and stopping forces attempting to take what isn't theirs.

That is just scratching the surface... anti piracy missions near coastlines where high speed boats are operating... you could add 3-4 Ka-31s with under belly radar arrays for AWACS role to direct Ka-52s on surface interdiction missions.

Equally getting port access in countries like Yemen or Somalia might involve a little inland patrol to prevent factions attacking your land based facilities... etc etc.

Work on Mistral Ships for Russia Goes on Schedule

Works on construction of two Mistral-class amphibious assault ships for Russian Navy are keeping up with schedule, said Jean-Marie Poimboeuf, the president of French industrial group of shipbuilding and naval armaments (GICAN).

Construction of hull sections for the first Mistral-class ship goes on schedule since the beginning of the year in Saint-Nazaire by STX, said the head of GICAN at the press-tour over French shipbuilding assets. As for him, there are no problems with the contract signed by DCNS and Rosoboronexport providing delivery of two Mistral ships to Russian Navy in 2014 and 2015.

Industrial group GICAN (Groupement Industriel des Constructions et Armements Navals) is a French national association of shipbuilding companies which represents interests of French shipbuilding industry.

http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16017

Russian Mistral Crews to Train on First Ship

Training of crews for two Russian Mistral-class amphibious assault ships will be held on the first built ship, Jose Lagadec, representative of DCI told reporters.

Crew training for the first two Mistral-class ships will be provided by DCI; this company trains personnel for military equipment made for French armed forces and for export, pointed out Jose Lagadec.

"We will train Russian naval mariners on the hardware they will then operate, particularly, on the first Mistral-class ship currently built in Saint-Nazaire", he added.

As for him, the training process will be carried out in French with simultaneous translation into Russian language.

First Mistral ship will be delivered to Rosoboronexport in 2014, the second one – in 2015.

http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16025

I so much want to stick my middle finger into the bunch of russophobes whining abou the mistral purchase

Also into those saying that the russians are buying the mistral because their vessels are crap

First Mistral Laid Down at Baltiysky Zavod Shipyard

Hull of the first Russian Mistral-class amphibious assault ship was laid down at Baltiysky Zavod shipyard on Oct 1, 2012. Baltiysky Zavod Shipbuilding Ltd laid a keel for the ship named Vladivostok accurate to the construction schedule.

At 2 pm, the first hull section of the ship was put on the slipway "A". First stage of the construction process has been done and then accepted by the orderer, French company STX France represented by the Mistral project deputy director.

Metal cutting for the first out of two Mistral-class ships started at Baltiysky Zavod on Aug 1, 2012. It is planned to begin metal cutting for the second ship named Sevastopol in May 2013.

"This contract is very important for us", comments Alexander Voznesensky, director general of Baltiysky Zavod Shipbuilding Ltd. "Take note, money is not the question. The main thing is that the contract is supervised by Russian government's military industrial committee. It is important for us to show at the federal level that the shipyard has kept its expertise, and we do meet even the most strict requirements of French partners", Voznesensky said.

Baltiysky Zavod Shipbuilding Ltd manufactures floating parts of hulls for the first two Mistral-class amphibious assault ships.

Russian Rosoboronexport and French DCNS signed the contract for first two ships in June 2011. United Shipbuilding Corporation is involved as subcontractor of French shipyard STX France located in Saint-Nazaire. Baltiysky Zavod will construct 24 hull sections (stern parts of two ships) which is about 40 per cent of hulls.

Then the sections will be sent to France for final assembling. The first ship is supposed to join Russian Navy in 2015.

JSC United Shipbuilding Corporation is Russia's largest shipbuilding company. It was established by presidential decree in 2007 with 100% shares in federal ownership. The holding comprises about 60 companies and organizations of shipbuilding industry (largest shipyards and ship-repair plants, leading design bureaus). Presently, the corporation consolidates about 70% of national shipbuilding industry. Although the company is oriented on Russian market, it exports production to 20 countries.

Baltiysky Zavod was established in 1856 by an Englishman named Mark McFerson. Through 150-year history, the shipyard was privatized several times, but having faced financial problems, it was nationalized again. Finally, late in 2011 the company again passed to state control represented by United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC). To preserve work collective and expertise, it was decided to establish Baltiysky Zavod Shipbuilding Ltd within the USC. Most of employees passed to the new company. The new legal entity obtained shipbuilding and machine-building expertise as a strategic company. Main task of JSC Baltiysky Zavod now is to keep property in order and protect state interests in legal proceedings.

http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16048

I so much want to stick my middle finger into the bunch of russophobes whining abou the mistral purchase Mad

Also into those saying that the russians are buying the mistral because their vessels are crap Mad Mad

There is no cure for ignorance when the victim doesn't care for the truth.

The Georgian invasion of South Ossetia was a serious surprise for the Russian politicians, especially when the international community largely blamed them for the whole incident despite the facts on the ground at the time.

Georgia was never a real threat of course and there is no point in buying Mistral class carriers to park next to Georgia or for that matter the baltic states or new europe, but in the far east the Russian forces were is a poor state and their ability to fight off a japanese attempt to take the Kurile Islands on the other hand is not so cut and dried. Equally if the Scandinavian countries started expanding their interests north and start claiming islands then Russia could use some muscle in both places and these four carriers can provide that muscle.

Of course Russia could easily design and build carriers that are even better suited to their needs, but it would take 10 years including several competing designs and then they would need to be tested and then tested against one another and that would take at least 5 years so there would be no carriers till at least 2025... which is far too long.

The Mistrals are very well equipped and proven designs that can be in service before 2020.

They are modifying them with strengthened hulls to operate in ice and the helicopter deck has been raised to make room for the coaxial design of the Ka-52 and Ka-29 helicopters to be embarked.

Creating arctic brigade and placing Mig-31 fighter in arctic region clearly show, that in near future northern naval route between Atlantic and Pacific at Russian northern coast will become more and more important. Mistrals, AC Kuz and Kirovs will have the main role in defending that route together with new icebreakers.

GarryB wrote:
The Georgian invasion of South Ossetia was a serious surprise for the Russian politicians, especially when the international community largely blamed them for the whole incident despite the facts on the ground at the time.

I wouldn't go so far- they were definitely not getting ready to make offensive action, but the military specifically left units on SO border (a brilliant decision in hindsight).
If the Russian gov was surprised by the Georgian invasion, then they are just as incompetent as the Georgians, who inexplicably did not account for Russian intervention.

I guarantee you however Putin was very happy to hear that Tskinval was being bombarded.
The whole War was a god-send to the military, unfortunate casualties aside. Politicians were forced to fund the arm they relied on to avoid political debacle (if SO had fallen).

I think they were genuinely surprised by saakashvilis stupidity.

Who would credit him to be so stupid to think having NATO flags around his TV appearances would offer so little real protection.

In many ways the Russians were saved because there were plenty of volunteers from Chechnia and North Ossetia who wanted to settle the score with Georgia.

Russian Navy to Form Marine Battalions for Mistral Ships

In 2013, Russian defense ministry will form new marine battalions to be based on Mistral-class assault landing ships. American experience was taken as a basis for the new battalions, a source in Russian Navy Main HQ told Izvestiya newspaper.

"Each marine battalion will comprise three companies, a mortar battery, reconnaissance, antitank, and antiaircraft platoons, and logistic support units", said the interviewee.

As for him, helicopter-lift landing will be a mission for the first company. It will be equipped with small arms, machineguns, and grenade launchers. Prior to the landing, this company will be supported by mortar, antitank and antiaircraft missile fire.

The second company will land ashore by prospective amphibious armored vehicles Kurganets-25 or BMP-3F.

"Such vehicle must be capacious enough, have long floating endurance and good buoyancy, just like American amphibious vehicle AAVP-7", explained the interviewee.

The third company will be delivered ashore by Zodiac-type motorboats. Except for that, marines of that company will inspect suspicious vessels, and intercept pirate boats. With this end in view, personnel of the third company will be trained in accordance with requirements to Russian Navy special force.

Navy command plans to establish one battalion for each Mistral in all three marine brigades and two regiments.

According to military historian Dmitry Boltenkov, such battalions will realize all capabilities of Mistral ships in full.

"In Soviet times, landing units were selected randomly. They needed team-building drills and additional combat training course. But now landing parties will consist of well-trained personnel perfectly aware of the ship's design and landing methods on particular amphibious vehicles", Boltenkov told Izvestiya.

As for him, new battalions will make possible to apply Mistral ships both in global war and in local conflicts. Besides, the French helicopter-carriers can be used in anti-piracy operations and evacuation of Russian citizens from countries at war.

Mistral is an amphibious assault landing ship operated by French Navy. Such ship is used for sealift delivery of military units, helicopters, and may execute functions of command ship or floating hospital. The 1,800-sq m hangar accommodates 900 marines and sixteen 12-ton helicopters.

In Jan 2011, Russia and France signed the contract for construction of 4 Mistral-class helicopter carriers for Russian Navy. According to the document, two of them will be built in France, other two are supposed to be manufactured in Russia under license. Construction of the first ship named Vladivostok started on Monday, Oct 1 at Baltiysky Zavod in St. Petersburg.

http://rusnavy.com/news/newsofday/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16068

It seems only one company will be equipped with armor vehicles.

The Mistrals don't have a lot of room for a huge number of armoured vehicles.

A single Kurganets company of IFVs is 30 vehicles.

Add air defence vehicles and of course mortar carriers and recon kurganets vehicles and the capacity of about 60 vehicles will be reached fairly easily.

The combination of Helicopter delivered forces, zodiac delivered forces and armoured delivered forces they will have a fairly flexible capability... especially when naval gun support is taken into account too... not to mention the direct fire support of a dozen Ka-52s... and I would suspect that if available the Kuz would provide Mig-29K2 top cover to support the operation.

Usually company have ~12 vehicles, 30 is battalion. It seems they want to have more helicopters and less vehicles.

Helicopter numbers are limited by deck space, they had to raise the hangar size to allow for the Coaxial designs, but I rather suspect the decks for armoured vehicles will also include artillery and air support and other vehicles that operate with the two ground based forces. (Vehicle and Zodiac).

Kamov to Make First Helicopters for Mistral Ships in 2013

First batch-produced helicopters Ka-52K for Mistral-class amphibious assault ships will roll off production line in 2013, said Sergei Mikheev, chief designer of the Kamov bureau.

"First batch of Ka-52K will be completed in 2013. By arrival of the first Mistral, we're ready to produce as many helicopters as defense ministry wants", Mikheev said reminding that one Mistral-class ship accommodates 16 helicopters, reports RIA Novosti.

As for him, ship-based version of the Ka-52 helicopter in many ways resembles the serial one except some "nuances" needed for overwater flights. "I mean ventilation issues, pilot suits, and some special-purpose instruments. One of the main distinctive features is folded rotor blades", Mikheev said.

He specified that designers were doing their best to expand batch production without serious changes. The chief designer emphasized that helicopters Ka-29/31 which would also be stationed on Mistrals needed neither refitting nor modernization. It is a standard ship-based helicopter in Russian Navy. "Size of Ka-29 is okay, they land on the deck and fit the elevators", Mikheev said.

As was reported on Sept 19, air wing consisting of 30 Ka-52K and Ka-29 helicopters will be formed for each of two Mistral-class ships built in France for Russian Navy.

Strength and type of on-board air groups will depend on certain situation and assigned tasks.

Construction of experimental helicopters Ka-52 Alligator is going on at the Progress plant (Primorsky Krai, Russia).

It was reported on Oct 22 that French shipyard STX France would launch the first Russian Mistral-class ship in Sept 2013.

Moscow and Paris signed the contract for two Mistral-class ships in June 2011. The contract value was EUR 1.2 bln.

The first landing ship for Russian Navy was laid down early in Feb 2012.

Russian Mistrals will bear names of Vladivostok and Sevastopol. All of them will be equipped with newest Russian attack and defense weapons, including supersonic cruise missiles.

On Oct 13, chief of Navy Development Planning Dept RADM Vasily Lyashok said that Mistral-class amphibious assault ships would be commissioned into Pacific Fleet in 2014 and 2015.

On Oct 1, Baltiysky Zavod Shipbuilding Ltd (St. Petersburg) began construction of the hull for the first out of two other Mistral ships to be build under French license.

In Aug 2012, Russia started manufacturing of experimental helicopters Ka-52K to be based on Mistral-class ships.

Russian Navy will start employment of crews for those ships on competition basis in 2013.

http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16296

As I know Ka-52K prototype should be build this year. Anyone know, if Ka-52K will be also present in Kuznetsov carrier?

unlikely to be permanantly present on the K, but it would be possible to attach it if necessary.

The K already has Kamov models like the Ka-31 and Ka-29 and Ka-32 so there would be no problems accomodating a coaxial design.

It would be interesting if the Mistrals might deploy the Ka-31 AEW model of the Kamov family to detect low flying threats at long range.

Mistral from the other hand can accommodate naval fighters? At least a small amount?

France Transfers Mistral Technology to Russia Ahead of Schedule

France transfers construction technology of Mistral-class amphibious assault ships to Russia ahead of schedule, reports RIA Novosti referring to Russian defense minister Anatoly Serdiukov.

As for him, "French partners are handing over new technologies not only for the first two Mistrals but even for third and fourth ones", reports the news agency.

Earlier on, Serdiukov said that the money for the third and fourth Mistral ships had been already included into defense budget. Since 2013, those funds can be used for construction of the second pair of ships in Russia, reminds RIA Novosti.

http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16348

George1 wrote:Mistral from the other hand can accommodate naval fighters? At least a small amount?

no way..it simply lacks arrestor system and length to do so.

unless Russia planned on a new "YAK-141"

Mistral from the other hand can accommodate naval fighters? At least a small amount?

Fighter aircraft?

No. Not enough room for takeoff or landing.

The "fighters" on the Mistrals will be these modified Ka-52K aircraft with 80kg nose mounted AESA radars and probably a decent selection of AAMs.

Defense Ministry Postpones Decision upon Second Two Mistrals

On Nov 15, Russian Navy Commander-in-Chief ADM Viktor Chirkov will hold a meeting with shipbuilders with the view to discuss construction and operation of Mistral-class amphibious ships, a source in defense ministry told Central Navy Portal.

The meeting will be attended by representatives of JSC United Shipbuilding Corporation, FSUE Krylov State Scientific Center, and other Russian defense-oriented companies.

According to the source, prior to making decision upon construction of the second pair of ships, Russian Navy command wants to carry out full-scale tests of the lead Mistral-class ship named Vladivostok being built for Russia. It is planned to decide whether to buy the second two Mistrals on the basis of operational experience of the first one.

Recall that Moscow and Paris signed the contract for two Mistral-class ships in June 2011. The contract value is EUR 1.2 bln. The first ship was laid down early in Feb 2012.

Russian Mistrals will bear names of Vladivostok and Sevastopol. All of them will be equipped with newest Russian attack and defense weapons, including supersonic cruise missiles.

On Oct 13, chief of Navy Development Planning Dept RADM Vasily Lyashok said that Mistral-class amphibious assault ships would be commissioned into Pacific Fleet in 2014 and 2015.

On Oct 1, Baltiysky Zavod Shipbuilding Ltd (St. Petersburg) began construction of the third Mistral ship; third and fourth ships are to be built in Russia under French license.

In Aug 2012, Russia started manufacturing of experimental helicopters Ka-52K to be based on Mistral-class ships.

Russian Navy will start employment of crews for those ships on competition basis since 2013.

http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16443