2S35 Koalitsiya-SV 152mm

Well that is pretty clear, the new ammo is not compatible with the old stuff and so they will probably test some guns but wont deploy them widely because their focus will be on mass production and use of current guns and ammo to meet the needs.

Raises some issues too of course because the incompatibility of the different ammo types and the issue that when you do use them you might be using them intensively which means when you store guns you probably want to make a dozen extra barrels for each gun and an eye watering number of rounds to fire through them so you don't have to keep the old ammo and old gun barrels in production if you do need guns from storage.

With very old guns not able to use modern ammo it might just be better to sell them off to allies that use them still and just make new guns and new ammo for storage.

The new propellent charges for Coalition look very good, and offer a variety of power options.

It is truly a gun/howitzer.

For those not familiar a gun is generally a high velocity long range weapon most often anti armour or for use as a counterbattery weapon to defeat enemy guns from a safe distance. It has a relatively light shell for its calibre and a high muzzle velocity to achieve max range. It generally uses a single charge propellent case or uses one piece ammo.

A howitzer usually has a heavy shell for its calibre and can normally operate at very high elevation to drop rounds on target vertically like a mortar. It normally has a variable propellent system so shooting at close targets it can use a high elevation so the round does not go as high so it spends less time in the air which makes it more accurate (less time to be blown off course).



As you can see the propellent "bags" are quite small so to get max range you use a lot of them, but that means for close range targets you might only use one or two which reduces recoil and wear and tear on the gun and saves propellent bags for longer range shots.

That certainly improves the situation.

I also should have mentioned that the Russian Navy currently uses the Bereg coastal artillery gun system which uses a 130mm naval calibre gun, but they have talked about using a Coalition based 152mm gun, presumably to replace the Beregs 130mm gun simply because it triples the range and increases the shell weight significantly, and such a calibre would also be useful on Destroyer and Cruiser sized ships.

In the Soviet Navy the 130mm was their biggest gun (Edit: their biggest modern gun fitted to ships made after about 1970. When the US reinstated their Iowa class battleships for naval gun support roles the Soviets returned some Sverdlov class ships into service and they had 152mm guns, but they didn't use them much) and was carried by destroyers (Sovremmeny class) and Cruisers (second Kirov class onwards, and Slava class cruisers), but the modern Russian navy has 130mm guns on Frigates (new lighter single barrel gun).

Going for larger calibre guns wouldn't make a lot of sense with the old guns that couldn't reach much further than the 130mm naval guns they already use at about 25-30km range, but Coalition reaches 70-80km with plans to more than double that range with special shells to about 180km with guided shells which would be rather potent against enemy ships... especially considering the rate of fire and number of ready to use rounds they would carry.

A 203mm gun with a range of 250km guided shells would be very valuable and a cost effective way of dealing with large numbers of enemy ships... if it uses this incremental propellent too then it would be fantastic at any range...

Mass production of the shells and propellent for the navy will make demand significant, but both using the same gun and same ammo will make it more cost effective as they can joint develop new rounds too...

The latest self-propelled artillery system (ACS) "Coalition-SV" in the special operation in Ukraine has not yet participated, state tests will be completed by the end of 2023. This was announced on Tuesday, April 25, by the interim Chief of the Missile Forces and Artillery (RViA). Major General Sergey Medvedsky of the Russian Armed Forces.

"The self-propelled gun" Coalition-SV " has not yet taken part in the SVO, it continues to pass state tests, which are expected to be completed before the end of the year," he told TASS.

According to Medvedsky, work is currently underway to improve the chassis of the installation.

Self-propelled guns " Coalition-SV — - part of the project to re-equip the Ground Forces with new equipment. As military expert Alexey Khlopotov told Izvestia in December 2021, self-propelled guns are closer in functionality to multiple launch rocket systems, while artillery shells are ten times cheaper than the same missiles for MLRS. Self-propelled guns can destroy targets almost immediately and are ahead of attack helicopters and planes in this indicator, the expert added.

NOTE: the range for this weapon is planned to be 70 kms.

https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy_u/ru-en.en.44a9f29f-6447bb7b-bc39e3b5-74722d776562/https/iz.ru/1503716/2023-04-25/gosispytaniia-sau-koalitciia-sv-zavershatsia-do-kontca-2023-goda

Wasn't there a rumor that they were reviving the twin barrel Koalitsiya some time ago?

I hope not.

The complication of twin automatic ammo feeds in the gun turret would be mind bending.

For a naval gun mount it would make sense... would love to see a 152mm gun mount on the upgraded Orlan class cruisers and the upgraded Alant class cruisers, and work done on extended range HE shells with 170-180km range with guided shells would be interesting.

Doubling the rate of fire is easy... just use an extra vehicle.

Mechanically adding another gun would make it heavier and larger and its rate of fire is already rather good.

For best rate of fire use rocket artillery.

GarryB wrote:I hope not.Doubling the rate of fire is easy... just use an extra vehicle.
.

Except that would cost almost twice as much as not just the gun and autoloader need to be duplicated, but the whole vehicle.

There is definately merit to a double barreled design, if you want a single barrel use 203mm, after all if it can handle two 152s a single 203 is no problem.

Except that would cost almost twice as much as not just the gun and autoloader need to be duplicated, but the whole vehicle.

The cost of completely redesigning the turret of the 2S35 to fit two separate guns with two separate automatic feed systems (remember the turret is unmanned so you need at least two feed channels and an ejection feed to remove rounds you change your mind about)... the weight of the extra gun plus extra stabilisation and extra loading and unloading mechanisms would make the vehicle much heavier and more expensive.

Most importantly it will make it top heavy which will effect its ability to manouver on various types of terrain and what sort of transport options would be available to move it.

Trying to shoehorn an extra gun and mount and stabilisers would be a pain in the arse and the various zeroing systems would need to be duplicated for each gun because the top gun would be in sunlight and therefore would bend at a different rate to the lower barrel in the shade.

There is definately merit to a double barreled design, if you want a single barrel use 203mm, after all if it can handle two 152s a single 203 is no problem.

Firing multiple guns in a single turret at once really only works at sea or with very small calibre guns.

The only time high rate of fire is important is with AA guns and even then the 2S38 has just one barrel because it is about accuracy and airburst and guided munitions rather than blind pure rate of fire to be effective.

Instead of fitting extra guns to a land based vehicle it makes more sense to improve accuracy and the power of the shell and its range than to modify the vehicle to carry extra guns,

Whether the gun can fire 2 tons of shells or 4 tons of shells on target in a single burst is not important... honestly I doubt the target will notice the difference.

Wanting lots of barrels on a gun artillery system is childish, the equivalent of attaching bombs and missiles on every conceivable position on an aircraft model... it makes the plane worse rather than better.

In a naval gun mount they can make the turret bigger and they have space for extra feeds for ammo types and being mounted on a ship the water is an excellent absorber of recoil.

For land vehicles that have to drive around on tracks then the priority is to fire shells and be able to move quickly so they can do it again.

It is easier to upgrade the feed mechanism to increase the rate of fire if that is needed, but I rather suspect not having the highest rate of fire is not going to make the vehicle useless... despite what fanboys on the internet say.

In fact look at machine guns... if rate of fire was so damn important why are they not firing much much faster than they do?

Apart from the MG-3, most modern machine guns fire at about 600-700 rpm... there is no reason for that other than it makes sense.

Aircraft carried Soviet rifle calibre machine guns fired at 2,700 rpm with the UltraShKAS used on Polikarpovs, the helicopter mounted four barrel GSh-7,62 gun on the Ka-29 fires at 6,000 rpm, but most other weapons don't even approach that rate of fire.

Their aircraft gun families generally include a single barrel, a twin barrel and a 6 barrel gatling type in 23mm and in 30mm calibre.

The single barrel guns are for fighters and some attack helicopters because of their light weight, while the twin barrel guns have a high rate of fire but are not too heavy and are used in Helicopters and CAS aircraft. For aircraft that are high speed and for use against elusive ground or air targets they have six barrel gatling guns.

Interestingly the Su series of swing fighter bombers often had two 30mm single barrel guns fitted, but the Su-25 and Su-24 had twin barrel and six barrel guns respectively.

The Su-25 has a twin barrelled 30mm cannon and the Su-24 a six barrel 23mm cannon.

The multi barrel guns don't fire all barrels at once, the twin barrel gun uses the firing of one barrel to load the other barrel and eject the fired cartridge.

With a gatling one barrel position is for firing... in the case of a four barrel gun like the GSh-7.62, one barrel is firing, the barrel before it is loading and the barrel after it is ejecting the empty shell case and the fourth barrel is empty.

With a six barrel gun one is still firing and one is loading and one is ejecting... but sometimes two are loading and two are ejecting and one is empty.

The point is that there is talk they went to a single barrel gun to make the turret smaller so it can be transported by aircraft and train and fits better in boats, but I suspect actually the new long range shells will likely generate enormous recoil, which would upset the aim if the rate of fire was too high and the gap between shots was too short to allow the gun to recover to point of aim again for the next shot.

In sub machine guns you find something similar where the PPSH-41 has a high rate of fire.... over 900 rpm but it holds well on target, while other guns with lower rates of fire are harder to hold on target because the timing is wrong. Guns with very low rates of fire like 500rpm are easier to control because there is time to recover the recoil and settle back on target.

Russian troops received the first batch of the Coalition-SV artillery system
Rostec reported that the backbone of the firepower of the complex is a 152 mm cannon with a firing rate of more than 10 rounds per minute
The first batch of the latest Coalition-SV artillery complex has been delivered to the Russian Armed Forces. Rostec's press service told TASS on Friday.
"This is the first delivery of the Coalition-SV interspecific artillery complex to the troops. The basis of its firepower is a 152-mm cannon with a rate of fire of more than 10 rounds per minute, which is higher than the rate of fire of other artillery systems," the state corporation said.
The press service stressed that the Coalition-SV surpasses modern domestic and foreign counterparts in its main tactical and technical characteristics - rate of fire, range, and accuracy.

https://twitter.com/djuric_zlatko/status/1661053643842265088

Whether they drive around in a big group of 6 or 8 or they operate independently and all hide as best they can, when targets appear that require a high rate of fire and lots of heavy shells it is likely that all of the guns in a single battery will fire on the target, either together as a group or individually from individual locations from which they will then immediately move.

Which tactic they use will depend on their enemy.... third world countries with no heavy artillery or artillery radar or HATO support and you can operate your vehicles together in a group which makes defending them easier as well as coordinating their fire easier. If it is the current situation in Ukraine then vehicles dispersed and hiding but ready to fire and then move perhaps with some air defence forces with anti drone weapons operating nearby.

Either way all 6 or 8 vehicle can fire on the target at once meaning that target is in for a hell of a time.

But if you need 20 shells per minute then use Grad or Smerch or one of the Tornadoes.

If you need better performance (ie heavier shells) then Tulip and Pion or Iskander.

Artillery is ready 24/7 and should be able to launch very quickly after being given the order to do so, compared with aircraft or helicopters or drones which might require a flight time to load up with the right ammo and to get into position to launch an attack.

The news delivered by Franco is definitely great.
And what I thought would happen is happening, that is, the Russians will introduce more complex platforms like the T-14 and the 2S35 howitzer into mass production before the Kurganets-25 and APC Boomerang.

They are wearing out their guns because they are trying to fire them at the rate they fire Soviet era guns at and it is destroying the western guns... which is pretty funny really.

It is better to have affordable guns on wheeled platforms that makes them cheap to buy and cheap to operate, if you want really high rate of fire then use rockets because they can deluge an area with HE very quickly.

If you need more HE on target then there are glide bombs and plenty of other alternatives.

I would assume that high rpm is not for sustained fire.  If you stay longer counterbattery fire will  destroy you.  On vids from SMO I saw, Russian artillery  men say we have change location after 90 seconds of schooling . IMHO that's why you need max rpm and you move on.

There was a video on the internet a year or two back showing a Ukrainian operated Vasilek automatic mortar... the clip was less than 2 minutes long and it showed the crew pull up and set up their gun and they fired off a clip and then reloaded and then fired off another clip and appeared to be trying to confirm their hits so they could correct their fire and the video ended with their position coming under direct artillery attack.

Normal Soviet training was to stop, setup, fire a clip and then move... which they did in less than a quarter of the time this Orc unit did.

So the claim is not that the rate of fire is critical but that the burst rate of fire is critical, well I would say most modern guns can probably fire a bare minimum of 5 to 6 rounds at angles and propellent loads so they all hit the target together, but an increase in rate of fire wont help because there is no way to make the first rounds go slower and the later rounds to go faster and still have more rounds being fired to arrive at once.

More importantly if the target is a point target most of the time if one shell is not good enough then more shells are not a whole lot better... and a larger calibre is needed.

When the target is an area target then using more guns or rocket artillery makes more sense than having one super fast firing gun because really rapid fire for such a powerful weapon will be shaking the gun mount all over the place despite support legs and other measures.

Guided shells and improved target spotting and fire correction make more sense than just firing more rounds.

Or are you suggesting a tank with four gun barrels would be good because you get four shots at every target which is bound to get a kill hit... except that would be obviously stupid.

AFAIK the Koalitsiya still retain the double feed mechanism of the two gun version.
At a certain point they act like the loader of T-80 that straighten up the ammo and the charge and load them in a single motion, so keeping practically the same rate of fire of the double barrelled version.
PZH2000 could both manually load normal Nato satchel charge than use a modular one like the Koalitsija do.

Actually, I think the great innovation of Koalitsiya is the radar assisted automatic correction of fire, that allow to use normal shells with a precision comparable to a guided one.
Such a system also maximize the effectiveness of the augmented rate of fire, as you didn't need anymore to wait for the first grenade to land to made corrections,

I am getting like 3 different august 2023 articles talking about its rate of fire being 16 or 23 rounds per minute, so I chose this article instead. I hope Hermes will be next.

https://topwar.ru/223757-sau-2s35-koalicija-sv-ispytanija-zavershajutsja-proizvodstvo-nachato.html?ysclid=lmiodax02d534952168

Self-propelled guns 2S35 "Coalition-SV": tests are completed, production has begun
15 August 2023
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Self-propelled guns 2S35 "Coalition-SV": tests are completed, production has begun
"Coalition-SV" on Red Square. Photo of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

In the interests of the artillery of the ground forces, a promising 152-mm self-propelled artillery mount 2S35 "Coalition-SV" was developed. Over the past few years, this product has been tested, and such events are nearing completion. In addition, it became known about the launch of the production of self-propelled guns of this type, as well as transport and loading machines intended for them.

At the testing stage

Recall that the project of self-propelled guns "Coalition-SV" has been developed since the middle of the two thousandth. The lead developer was the Nizhny Novgorod Central Research Institute "Petrel" from the NPK "Uralvagonzavod" of the state corporation "Rostec". At the beginning of the tenth years, the appearance of the future self-propelled gun was formed, the design was completed and the construction of experimental equipment began.

According to known data, the first prototypes 2S35 were built in 2013-14 and then went to the test on May 9, 2015, this technique was first shown to the public. Over the next years, the prototypes of the "Coalition-SV" worked at the test site, confirming the design characteristics and demonstrating new capabilities. Due to the complexity of the project and the tasks set, the tests are still ongoing.

The Coalition-SV self-propelled guns have already shown their main capabilities, and also demonstrated superiority over existing artillery systems. So, in 2019, the self-propelled gun fired at a distance of 80 km - at the moment this is a record for domestic 152-mm guns. At the same time, it was reported about the development of the "barrage of fire" mode, which makes it possible to increase the fire impact on the enemy and reduce the risks for self-propelled guns.


Promising and modern artillery. Photo of the Presidential Administration of the Russian Federation

The assembly of the "Coalition-SV" was entrusted to the enterprise "Uraltransmash" (Yekaterinburg). At the end of 2019, it announced the completion of the construction of an experimental batch, which was soon going to be sent to the troops. In addition, the preparation of full-fledged mass production has started.

As a result of these events, in August 2021, at the Army-2021 forum, the Ministry of Defense issued an order to Uraltransmash for the mass production of new self-propelled guns. The quantity and cost of equipment were not specified then. It is curious that by the time the first serial contract appeared, self-propelled guns were still at the testing stage.

Up-to-date plans

Recently, the current state of affairs in the Coalition-SV project and the developers' plans for the near future became known. On August 10, RIA Novosti published an interview with Vladimir Artyakov, Deputy General Director of Rostec. The topic of the conversation was current projects and the exposition of the state corporation at the future Army-2023 forum.

V. Artyakov said that the tests of the 2S35 product are ongoing, and they are planned to be completed by the end of the year. At the same time, serial production has already been mastered Both self-propelled guns and transport and loading machines for them are being built. The volume and pace of such construction, for obvious reasons, are not named.


One of the experienced self-propelled guns 2S35. Photo of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

From such a statement it follows that the new self-propelled guns in the near future will go into service with the ground forces. At the same time, a contract for mass production of equipment is already available and is being implemented. This means that the rearmament of combat units will also be able to begin in the foreseeable future.

New solutions

Within the framework of the Coalition-SV project, a traditional self-propelled guns were developed, designed to solve a well-known range of fire missions. At the same time, the design of the 2S35 uses a number of new components and solutions, due to which a significant increase in tactical, technical and combat characteristics is ensured. The resulting self-propelled gun has important advantages over modern models of its class.

The 2S35 self-propelled guns are an armored combat vehicle on a tracked chassis with a swivel turret carrying weapons. As the basis for the "Coalition-SV", a modified chassis of the T-90 tank is used, which gives the necessary characteristics of mobility and maneuverability.

For self-propelled guns, an original turret with an uninhabited fighting compartment has been developed. Inside it are a gun mount, mechanized stowage of ammunition, automatic loading and remotely controlled guidance drives. Outside the tower there is a combat module with a machine gun for self-defense and smoke grenade launchers.


"Coalition-SV" on a trailer for transportation. Photo of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

The 2S35 product is equipped with a 152-mm rifled howitzer 2A88. This gun has a barrel length of 52 klb with a developed muzzle brake and ejector; The type of shutter is unknown. For the first time in domestic land artillery, a separate loading principle with a modular propellant charge is used. Such a charge consists of several modules-caps, the number of which may vary depending on the required energy of the shot. The supply of shells and modules to the chamber is carried out by automation. The shot is made by the original microwave charge initiation system.

Transportable ammunition - 70 shots. "Coalition-SV" can use all domestic shells of caliber 152 mm, including guided ones. At the same time, an increase in the firing range in comparison with other self-propelled guns was ensured, as well as the accuracy of hits was improved.

"Coalition-SV" is equipped with a modern digital fire control system with the necessary components and functions. Topographic location and calculation of data for firing are provided, several modes of firing are provided. It is assumed that there is a radar on board the self-propelled guns that tracks the trajectory of the projectile and helps to adjust the fire.

The crew of the self-propelled guns consists of three people - the commander, the driver and the gunner. All of them are placed in a common compartment inside the case. Control of systems and mechanisms of the fighting compartment is carried out remotely.


Units of the transport and loading machine 2F66-1. Projectiles and feed mechanisms are visible. Photo Vitalykuzmin.net

Together with the 2S35 self-propelled gun, the unit will receive the 2F66-1 transport and loading machine, made on the KamAZ serial chassis. The TZM van contains mechanized stowages, as well as means of moving projectiles and charge modules. With the help of a retractable conveyor, the TZM transmits the components of the shots to the self-propelled gun. The 2F66-1 machine can work with different ammunition in caliber from 120 to 152 mm. In the latter case, it carries 92 shots.

Opportunities for the future

The promising self-propelled guns 2S35 "Coalition-SV" in its design differs significantly from the existing domestic 152-mm systems. Due to such differences, a significant increase in combat and other characteristics is ensured, and the potential for further development is created.

The growth of combat characteristics is provided, first of all, by the new 2A88 gun and its ammunition. This product is characterized by an increased barrel length, which allows more efficient use of the energy of the propellant charge. In this case, the gun during firing is fully serviced by automation.

A real technological breakthrough is the use of a modular propellant charge. Variable charges are well mastered in our artillery, but the modern system of modules allows you to optimize the loading processes and provides other advantages. Thanks to this, the tool becomes a more flexible tool for solving all the intended tasks. Also of interest is the microwave charge initiation system. It provides simultaneous ignition throughout the entire volume of the module, which allows you to optimize combustion and increase energy parameters.

The new SLA for the "Coalition-SV" solves all the problems of preparing for firing, adjusting fire, etc. In addition, it has improved capabilities for interaction with other self-propelled guns and control structures. In fact, the 2S35 self-propelled guns are adapted to work in network-centric circuits with the corresponding capabilities and advantages.

With all this, the project has the potential for further development. In particular, the possibility of transferring the 2S35 fighting compartment to another chassis has already been shown. The version of the self-propelled guns on the KamAZ car was tested. The possibility of using the Armata tracked platform in the future is also mentioned. Another area of development may be the creation of new shells.

On the eve of rearmament

Thus, the new product 2S35 "Coalition-SV" compares favorably with the 152-mm self-propelled artillery systems available in our army and therefore is of great interest. In all basic parameters, the 2S35 surpasses the cash machines 2S3 "Carnation" and 2S19 "Msta-S", which have guns of the same caliber. Interest in the new model two years ago led to the emergence of a contract for mass production.

According to the latest news, the tests of the "Coalition-SV" are already being completed. In addition, the industry has established mass production of such equipment. All this suggests that the wait is coming to an end - in the near future the new self-propelled guns will go into service and complement the existing self-propelled guns.

Whatever koalitsiya achieved, K9 thunder did better 10 years before, and is actually in service. It also has the VULCANO round, which has gps+inetrial guidance, 70-80km range and launches a terminal heat seaking gudiance EFP.