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    PAK FA, T-50: News #1

    medo
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    Post  medo Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:29 pm

    Maybe those 10 will be build in two years. On the other hand if they finish with retooling and installing modern machinery in production line and with enough skilled workers it could be achieved.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:20 am

    Maybe they only managed 6 Super Flankers because of preparations and production space is being used for the PAK FA prototype production?

    I suspect that 6 Su-35s are built this year was sourcing components and integration and training a workforce and that next year they will double or triple production.

    As I keep suggesting the Russian AF needs to buy Migs... the current ones seem worn out, and Sukhoi is already tasked with building Su-35s, Su-34s, Su-30s, upgrading to Su-27SM stnadard, not to mention their critical work on the PAK FA, and Su-25 upgrades with a new CAS by 2020 and UCAVs... and that is just military stuff.
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    Post  ricky123 Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:25 pm

    why cant they have more people working and more assembly lines . it will boost production and export customers will be happy too Laughing
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:14 pm

    ricky123 wrote:why cant they have more people working and more assembly lines . it will boost production and export customers will be happy too Laughing

    That's the idea, but it is not a simple matter of just summoning people out of my butt. Wink
    Production like is a similar problem, there are sub-system suppliers that often slow down the process (see Su-34- they can make 12-20 airframes in near future per year, no problem, but the avionics production is not that high)
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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:12 am

    That's the idea, but it is not a simple matter of just summoning people out of my butt. Wink
    Production like is a similar problem, there are sub-system suppliers that often slow down the process (see Su-34- they can make 12-20 airframes in near future per year, no problem, but the avionics production is not that high)

    There is also a problem of scaling too.

    The Russian Air Force probably wouldn't know what to do if it suddenly got 500 modern aircraft, it would take time to train the 3000 odd pilots and crew that would operate these aircraft and they need to be trained too.

    They need to balance production capacity with requirement... building a hundred new factories right now might greatly increase the production rate, but what happens to all those state of the art factories with highly trained workers when the orders are filled?

    By spreading the production load to include Mig, who are also building more Mig-29Ks for India, upgrading Mig-29s for India and building Mig-29Ks for the Russian Navy. Giving them some orders for Mig-35s will keep them not only just working, but also producing state of the art equipment for modern 5th gen fighters.

    It is not just Mig because Mig also tends to buy Klimov jet engines and NIIP radars and has other contractors making other parts, so spreading production by ordering Mig-35s eases the pressure on Sukhoi, it gives the Russian AF an excellent aircraft and it keeps more Russian subcontractors working.

    It would not serve Russian interests to only have Sukhoi as a viable aircraft building enterprise... and to be honest it wouldn't do Sukhoi much good either.
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    PAK FA, T-50: News #1 - Page 24 Empty Re: PAK FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Austin Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:48 pm

    Some how i think with respect to Stealth from Ground based radar , the PAK-FA is badly screwed up.

    The Russian seems to have chosen the superb design of Flanker ( lifting bodies ) and gave intake at the bottom making the bottom surface not so flat and vulnerable to bad RCS.

    Compare that to the flat bottom of F-22 , J-20,J-21 and F-35 ...... is the screw up really bad at cost of better aerodynamic performance is the real question to ask.
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    Post  Viktor Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:04 pm

    Austin wrote:Some how i think with respect to Stealth from Ground based radar , the PAK-FA is badly screwed up.

    The Russian seems to have chosen the superb design of Flanker ( lifting bodies ) and gave intake at the bottom making the bottom surface not so flat and vulnerable to bad RCS.

    Compare that to the flat bottom of F-22 , J-20,J-21 and F-35 ...... is the screw up really bad at cost of better aerodynamic performance is the real question to ask.

    I think you misjudged the whole idea of lifting body. In order to achieve it you need to have flat bottom rather than curved one.

    In that regard Russians would much easily designed lifting body with flat bottom than with this kind of design. This not-flattened body

    design has some other reasons on its mind.
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    Post  Mindstorm Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:39 pm

    Compare that to the flat bottom of F-22 , J-20,J-21 and F-35
    ...... and the previously Sukoi-designed SU-47 (implementing also the "holy" S-duct Laughing Laughing ), moreover employing perspective composites and RAM on a qualitative level vastly superior to those implemented in legacy US "stealth" aircraft, designed and founded entirely (we must NEVER forget that) on the basis of SOVIET scientifical theoretical achievements in the field of......end of '50 years.


    F-35 is a design dictated by the merging of requirements of three different military branch in an unique design; the defining and most demanding requirement among which is surely the STOVL version for Marines (and also here the technical solution to this very complex problem has been taken directly from Yakovlev...).
    F-35's "cursed" airframe ,which so high amount of critics has attracted from any direction (forcing very often LM at recur to,at best,"creative" defense's attempts) is therefore not the product of bad engineering but of incompatible starting requirements.



    is the screw up really bad at cost of better aerodynamic performance is the real question to ask.

    Of course .

    A difference in AVERAGE RCS in the order of 0,3 square meters (the difference between the tactically relevant AVERAGE RCS of F-22 - 0,2 square meters- and the tactically relevant AVERAGE RCS of PAKFA -0,5 square meters- ) in front of crushingly superior kinematic performances ,much higher operative radius, uncomparably superior survivability and air to air weapons on a completely new level, is not simply a good trade-off but an ovewhelming advantageous one.

    I repeat ,when a day REAL ,air combat relevant, RCS figures for the so called "VLO" aircraft will be revealed we will assist to the greater amount of mass suicides after the Great Depression Razz Razz Razz


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    PAK FA, T-50: News #1 - Page 24 Empty Re: PAK FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Viktor Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:17 am

    No. 4 is in the air.

    Official from Sukhoi.

    With 200 flights done and No.4 entering on time I guess we can expect preproduction series in 2013

    Fourth PAK FA made its maiden flight in Komsomolsk-on-Amur

    Moscow, December 12. Today in Komsomolsk-on-Amur in the Holding "Sukhoi" Aircraft Production Association named after Y. Gagarin (KnAAPO) the first flight of the fourth prototype prospective fifth-generation aircraft (PAK FA). The plane was piloted by distinguished test pilot of the Russian Federation, the Hero of Russia Sergey Bogdan. Fighter spent forty minutes in the air and landed on the runway of the factory airfield. The flight was successful, in full accordance with the flight plan. During the flight test was conducted stability of the aircraft, the evaluation of the systems of power plant. The aircraft performed well in all phases of the planned flight program. Pilot said reliable operation of all systems and equipment.

    The first flight of the PAK FA took place on January 29, 2010 in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. Currently we are working on a whole range of ground and flight tests. They are attended by three aircraft. To date for the flight test program made about 200 flights.

    http://sukhoi.org/news/company/?id=5021



    medo
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    Post  medo Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:13 pm

    Excellent news. I hope T-50-4 have full equipment installed and will be intended for weapon tests and integrations.
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    Post  Viktor Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:31 pm

    medo wrote:Excellent news. I hope T-50-4 have full equipment installed and will be intended for weapon tests and integrations.

    Im hooping to see some of the new weapons intended for PAK-FA and some of the unique weapons being developed for Su-34.

    Preserial production is said to kick off next year.
    medo
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    Post  medo Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:11 pm

    PAK FA, T-50: News #1 - Page 24 210

    Picture of T-50-4. It seems it have the same EO sensor installation under the cockpit as Su-35 have.
    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:12 pm

    7 Secret Ways America’s Stealth Armada Stays Off the Radar

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/12/steath-secrets/
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    Post  Mindstorm Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:46 pm

    Sujoy wrote:7 Secret Ways America’s Stealth Armada Stays Off the Radar

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/12/steath-secrets/



    Razz Razz Razz Yes, Sujoy that is simply spectacular !!! Razz Razz Razz


    But that, believe me, is not the best "production" of our David Axe Laughing Laughing
    Give a look to that.....


    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/engine-china-stealth-fighter/

    Simply , too good !! Laughing Laughing Laughing

    I can bet that the day it will discover (naturally with a very intensive math course....) the relative disposable thrust of the aircraft mentioned or, even worse, WHERE was developed the entire theoretical Physics breakthroughs behind the "works" it has cited it will attempt suicide within seconds .....Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  TR1 Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:25 am

    Cool, we can see 101KS-U under the cockpit Smile .

    Move over DAS.
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:43 am

    Mindstorm wrote: Razz Razz Razz Yes, Sujoy that is simply spectacular !!! Razz Razz Razz

    I realize as much Mindstorm Very Happy . We need to bear in mind that guys like Axe are basically hired by various western defense contractors to write on their behalf.


    Mindstorm wrote:But that, believe me, is not the best "production" of our David Axe Laughing Laughing
    Give a look to that.....

    I believe you. I have read even more bone chilling accounts of how Axe escaped the Taliban in Afghanistan Very Happy


    Mindstorm wrote:I can bet that the day it will discover (naturally with a very intensive math course....) the relative disposable thrust of the aircraft mentioned or, even worse, WHERE was developed the entire theoretical Physics breakthroughs behind the "works" it has cited it will attempt suicide within seconds .....Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Mindstorm plz .. with tuition fees sky high in the US you expect guys like Axe to go to college all over again Smile Smile . Haven't Indians & Chinese stolen all their jobs ? Laughing Unfortunately in the distant future we will have to bear such theatrics . Therefore , it is us who are in danger of commiting suicide Razz
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    Post  ricky123 Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:25 am


    i got it from somewhere else
    PAK FA, T-50: News #1 - Page 24 Fgfaradaravionicspackag


    click on the pic to see full pic . i dont know how to put thumbnail
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:59 am

    http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/gallery/events/combat/t-50/t-50-4.wbp

    High red of T-50-5 Smile !
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    Post  ricky123 Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:01 am

    does any1 know what are the changes ?? i mean we can see some changes in the pic .
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    Post  Zivo Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:21 am

    PAK FA, T-50: News #1 - Page 24 T-50-4_09_big

    Panel cover for cheek mounted AESA in front of the brownish square? There is also an identical panel on the other side.
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    Post  Zivo Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:30 am

    Hopefully they'll paint this one black so it can be super duper stealthy. Laughing
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    Post  Austin Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:17 pm

    State trials of five 5th generation fighters to begin in Akhtubinsk March 2013

    THE SETTLEMENT ZARYA (Moscow region), December 23 (Itar-Tass) —— The state trials of five 5th generation fighters (advanced airborne complex of the frontline aviation) will begin at a base of the flight experimental centre in Akhtubinsk in March 2013, Chief Commander of the Russian Air Force Lieut. Gen. Viktor Bondarev told reporters on Sunday. The Long-Range Aviation of the Russian Air Force marks its 98th anniversary on December 23.

    “The airplanes of the prospective airborne complex of the frontline aviation are performing successfully the program of flight trials. Three fighters are taking the trials at the airfield in the Moscow regional town Zhukovsky, the fourth pilot fighter is being tested at the plant, the fifth fighter is about to be turned out and is passing the acceptance inspection. In March these five fighters will arrive in Akhtubinsk, where their state flight trials will begin. All other fighters will be dispatched there directly from the plant. By the end of 2013 eight prospective fighters T-50 will be accepted in Akhtubinsk,” Viktor Bondarev said.

    The trials of the advanced fighters will end within 2-2.5 years, the chief commander of the Russian Air Force said. In 2015 or the beginning of 2016 the construction of the fighters T-50 will become serial, the fighters will be put into service of the aviation formations.

    Viktor Bondarev noted that the program of the trials envisages all required tests of the features of the fighter, its avionics and weaponry.

    The commander also noted that that the design works to develop a strategic missile-carrying bomber of new generation (advanced airborne complex of long-range aviation) will end by 2017-2018.

    “Much work has been done to develop the advanced airborne complex of long-range aviation. The warplane is very serious and will ensure security of the country for many years to come, there we cannot make any errors. I believe that before 2017-2018 we will complete the creation of an advanced bomber and it will be ready for serial production,” Viktor Bondarev said.

    The commander noted that a prospective warplane is being developed with the use of the stealth technology and new types of aviation weaponry. “The warplane should resolve additional tasks, which were not envisaged for Tu-95 and Tu-160. According to its features it will outpace all current foreign counterparts,” the general said. He also added that the long-range aviation is working to extend the service life of long-range missile-carrying bombers Tu-160.

    “The long-range warplanes will be modernized. Now two bombers Tu-160 are at the plant. One of them is already passing an acceptance inspection after modernization, the second one is about to be turned out in the first quarter of the next year. The deliveries of next strategic warplanes are being made at the plant for modernization,” Viktor Bondarev said.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:21 pm

    Incredible pace.

    Getting the PAK-FA in service so soon (before 2nd stage engines even are ready) will alleviate need to buy many interim 4th gens, plus will create an experienced production like by the time the final bird is flying later in the decade.
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    Post  Cyberspec Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:21 am

    Great news, but apparently he was either misquoted or is being overly optimistic about 8 x T-50's by the end of 2013
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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:30 am

    Apparently the 5th prototype is ready and is just passing factory checks, so that would be three more built during 2013... which should certainly be possible.

    They were talking about 10 prototypes to be used to accelerate testing, so 8 for 2013 would make sense, with what was learned and changed for those tests applied to the last two of the 10 prototypes. The last two being the basis for pre production serial models.

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