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TR1 wrote:
T-72s @ UVZ, presumably for modernization.
T-90SA for Algeria.
Some tanks looks rusty and damaged. Do they take them from boneyard to repair and modernize them?
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Russian Ground Forces: News #1
medo- Posts : 4343
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Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
Some tanks looks rusty and damaged. Do they take them from boneyard to repair and modernize them?
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
medo wrote:TR1 wrote:
T-72s @ UVZ, presumably for modernization.
T-90SA for Algeria.
Some tanks looks rusty and damaged. Do they take them from boneyard to repair and modernize them?
They often look that bad before modernization, because they were laying around waiting for kapremont. I recall reading about T-72BA (first, back in late 1990s) modernization, some of the tanks brought in had blood of dead crews from Chechnya. o.O
GarryB- Posts : 40443
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Location : New Zealand
That is nothing, I have seen much worse looking vehicles getting overhauls.
When kept in storage it is generally open storage, but I have seen some western tanks that were orange with rust because they had been stripped of paint and primer and then stored.
By the time they were ready for the upgrade they looked like scrap metal, but a quick sand blasting to take it back to the bare metal and then a quick couple of coats of primer and they looked brand new.
When kept in storage it is generally open storage, but I have seen some western tanks that were orange with rust because they had been stripped of paint and primer and then stored.
By the time they were ready for the upgrade they looked like scrap metal, but a quick sand blasting to take it back to the bare metal and then a quick couple of coats of primer and they looked brand new.
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu-22aaXTBQ&feature=player_embedded#!
New communications complex.
New communications complex.
Zivo- Posts : 1487
Points : 1511
Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : U.S.A.
Centauros arrived for evaluation http://warsonline.info/bronetechnika/pribila-2-partiya-italyanskich-btr-centauro.html
Must be a lease, they still have the Italian flags on them. It's bizarre that Russia wants to evaluate so many of these NATO light vehicles. Especially considering that they wont be integrated with their newest platforms.
Must be a lease, they still have the Italian flags on them. It's bizarre that Russia wants to evaluate so many of these NATO light vehicles. Especially considering that they wont be integrated with their newest platforms.
Mindstorm- Posts : 1133
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Join date : 2011-07-20
It's bizarre that Russia wants to evaluate so many of these NATO light vehicles. Especially considering that they wont be integrated with their newest platforms.
Two elements : H-shaped transmission and some IBD Deisenroth Engineering's nano-materials solutions (mostly nitrogen steel and steel-alluminium composites) for side and underbelly armor.
Very useful for spare precious R&D efforts in sectors traditionaly not stimed primary directions of research in Russian Institutes of the sector (West has obviously invested much more in solutions purposely conceived for low intensity/COIN missions).
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
US Army also evaluated Centauro:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?145186-B1-Centauro-in-the-US-Army
So apparently they have something going for themselves. Centauro I am "meh" about, Frecia is interesting though.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?145186-B1-Centauro-in-the-US-Army
So apparently they have something going for themselves. Centauro I am "meh" about, Frecia is interesting though.
Zivo- Posts : 1487
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Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : U.S.A.
Two elements : H-shaped transmission and some IBD Deisenroth Engineering's nano-materials solutions (mostly nitrogen steel and steel-alluminium composites) for side and underbelly armor.
Very useful for spare precious R&D efforts in sectors traditionaly not stimed primary directions of research in Russian Institutes of the sector (West has obviously invested much more in solutions purposely conceived for low intensity/COIN missions).
That's the consensus. What's odd is that Italy just goes along with it, they just sold away every advantage they had from the technology to the tooling. Russia for the last two decades has removed itself from the 8x8 APC sector, companies like IVECO filled the niche market with some very good products.
We will just have to wait and see what type of next-generation vehicles Russia decides to export, and how quick they sell.
US Army also evaluated Centauro:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?145186-B1-Centauro-in-the-US-Army
So apparently they have something going for themselves. Centauro I am "meh" about, Frecia is interesting though.
The situations are similar, the US army looked into centauro to help design the Stryker, Russia is doing the same with Boomerang. Centauro does appear to have a similar layout and proportions to the leaked Boomerang models. It would be a healthy step in the design process to analyze a similar vehicle before committing to it. I have to agree with you about Freccia, it looks like a very capable APC.
Edit:
Rogozin recently made these statements on the subject of foreign purchases:
"We will not make any mass purchases of foreign-made armored hardware. We need only individual samples, in order to understand how they work and what advantages they have," he told a media conference on Friday.
Rogozin accepted the possibility of cooperation with foreign partners in weapons design, "but only in terms of borrowing certain units in which we are lagging somewhat behind," cites Interfax.
“On the whole, we must keep in mind that no one will sell us the smartest and most advanced hardware, even amidst the economic crisis in the West,” the official stressed.
http://rt.com/politics/rogozin-weapon-import-defense-485/
GarryB- Posts : 40443
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Keep in mind, the Italians are not giving away technology here... they are letting the Russians have a look at their kit and if the Russians decide there is something there they want or can use they will BUY the production technology to use it in their own designs.
They really don't have time to reverse engineer, and they have the money to buy it anyway.
The simple fact is that these Centauro Italian vehicles are likely not suitable mainly because they are not amphibious, but a lot of the design solutions taken to make them could be incorporated to make the Boomerang better.
Anytime you start the process of designing something the first thing you do is look at everyone elses solution to the same or similar problems. You analyse the good features and the bad features and try to come up with a solution where either there are no big bad features or the bad features don't matter.
A good example was the AK. The design of the bolt carrier being a big heavy piece of metal with a substantial piston rod all attached together makes it very reliable because it has a log of energy to unlock and open the bolt... even when the weapon is dirty.
The same mechanism for the SVD is different, it has a much lighter piston rod that is separate from the bolt carrier and the piston rod only moves a small distance to give a sharp tap to the bolt carrier. Less reliable, but also less destabilising as there is less mass slamming back and forth during shooting.
For the AK reliability is more important than stability while shooting.
They really don't have time to reverse engineer, and they have the money to buy it anyway.
The simple fact is that these Centauro Italian vehicles are likely not suitable mainly because they are not amphibious, but a lot of the design solutions taken to make them could be incorporated to make the Boomerang better.
Anytime you start the process of designing something the first thing you do is look at everyone elses solution to the same or similar problems. You analyse the good features and the bad features and try to come up with a solution where either there are no big bad features or the bad features don't matter.
A good example was the AK. The design of the bolt carrier being a big heavy piece of metal with a substantial piston rod all attached together makes it very reliable because it has a log of energy to unlock and open the bolt... even when the weapon is dirty.
The same mechanism for the SVD is different, it has a much lighter piston rod that is separate from the bolt carrier and the piston rod only moves a small distance to give a sharp tap to the bolt carrier. Less reliable, but also less destabilising as there is less mass slamming back and forth during shooting.
For the AK reliability is more important than stability while shooting.
medo- Posts : 4343
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Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
I thought Russia buy those 4 Centauros from IVECO - OTO MELARA, but it seems they just borrow them from Italian army or buy from their stocks.
Russia also show interest to test Patria AMV, which is amphibious and newer design than Centauro and Freccia. Maybe Russia is here more interested in OTO MELARA turret designs than in vehicle itself. Polish Patria have the same turret as Freccia.
Russia also show interest to test Patria AMV, which is amphibious and newer design than Centauro and Freccia. Maybe Russia is here more interested in OTO MELARA turret designs than in vehicle itself. Polish Patria have the same turret as Freccia.
GarryB- Posts : 40443
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It depends on what sort of testing they will do.
If they just want to take it apart, look at the bits and then put it back together and drive it around a bit in deep mud and then deep snow and cross country then they might just be lending them.
If they want to test armour protection and do some destruction testing on chassis components to see how they would last under long term use... ie set it up on a structure that simulates hitting a hard bump at high speed and repeats it 10 times a second for 6 days to simulate a few years of "mis"use... then they might not want back what is left.
Personally I think they will be interested in special armour and how effective it is against a range of weapon types and they will have bought these vehicles and they wont be going home... if you don't break them then you haven't tested them to their limits and beyond.
If they just want to take it apart, look at the bits and then put it back together and drive it around a bit in deep mud and then deep snow and cross country then they might just be lending them.
If they want to test armour protection and do some destruction testing on chassis components to see how they would last under long term use... ie set it up on a structure that simulates hitting a hard bump at high speed and repeats it 10 times a second for 6 days to simulate a few years of "mis"use... then they might not want back what is left.
Personally I think they will be interested in special armour and how effective it is against a range of weapon types and they will have bought these vehicles and they wont be going home... if you don't break them then you haven't tested them to their limits and beyond.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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THey told me Russian tanks couldn't do hull down positions ;(.
flamming_python- Posts : 9516
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TR1 wrote:
THey told me Russian tanks couldn't do hull down positions ;(.
Who told you that? They have lower profiles and if anything have more terrain opportunities to cover behind than the taller Western models.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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Sarcasm, but Western sources always criticize the supposed inability of Soviet era tanks to go hull down due to limited gun elevation and declination.
Zivo- Posts : 1487
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Funny, Russians love their built-in entrenching blades almost as much as their unditching logs
GarryB- Posts : 40443
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Western experts also thought the Yak-38M Forger couldn't do a rolling takeoff either... till they saw them do it...
TR1- Posts : 5435
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http://s001.radikal.ru/i194/1208/72/c793886c7b44.jpg
Hull of Georgian Lazika. Both the facility and the hull are not particularly impressive.
Hull of Georgian Lazika. Both the facility and the hull are not particularly impressive.
flamming_python- Posts : 9516
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TR1 wrote:http://s001.radikal.ru/i194/1208/72/c793886c7b44.jpg
Hull of Georgian Lazika. Both the facility and the hull are not particularly impressive.
Tell me about it - that place literally looks like the auto-platoon's garage/workshop at the run-down base I served in smack in the middle of the Arctic tundra
TR1- Posts : 5435
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http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/21451/
Western military okrug received over 5000 new trucks in 2011-2012.
Western military okrug received over 5000 new trucks in 2011-2012.
medo- Posts : 4343
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TR1 wrote:http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/21451/
Western military okrug received over 5000 new trucks in 2011-2012.
Good news, that's quite a number.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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Join date : 2011-12-06
S DNEM TANKISTA!
http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201209071906-l5ju.htm
T-90s (Early models, not A) training @ Alabino).
http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201209071906-l5ju.htm
T-90s (Early models, not A) training @ Alabino).
GarryB- Posts : 40443
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Transfers of Defense Army from Minsk for Russian chassis
The Russian Defense Ministry intends to transfer the armed forces with heavy chassis production to the Russian Minsk development system, the newspaper "Izvestia". A final decision can be taken before the end of the 2012 season. As the most likely supplier of new chassis for Russian military vehicles seen Bryansk automobile works (baz), which is expected to be usedonmost of the orders on special wheeled chassis for Iskander and multiple launch rocket systems.
Currently supplying special wheeled chassis is Minsk wheel tractor plant (MZKT). In particular, the company produces platform for complexes "Iskander", "Hurricane", "Twister", "Grad", "tornado"-300 and s-400. According to a source in the General staff of the RF ARMED FORCES, the decision to replace foreign domestic chassis is unofficial. In addition to the Base contracts on production of chassis for MLRS family of tornadoes will be one of the enterprises of KAMAZ.
The reasons for taking such a decision. In particular, the Russian authorities have decided to adopt a policy of technological independence from imports of components and basic component. In addition, according to a source in the General staff, the cost of Minsk special wheeled chassis for about 15-20 per cent higher than the cost of similar systems of Russian production. Finally, bryanskie Baz-69092 lighter and smaller Minsk mzkt-7093 underlying complexes "Iskander".
However, to make a relatively rapid transition from Minsk Russian chassis will not work. According to the newspaper's source, based on the Baz-69092 was developed on own funds of enterprises and submitted to the Ministry of defence in July 2011. Even if a final decision on the purchase of the platform will be adopted before the end of 2012, would still need five to seven years of development, testing and refinement.
So to repeat the very important part:
Currently supplying special wheeled chassis is Minsk wheel tractor plant (MZKT). In particular, the company produces platform for complexes "Iskander", "Hurricane", "Twister", "Grad", "tornado"-300 and s-400. According to a source in the General staff of the RF ARMED FORCES, the decision to replace foreign domestic chassis is unofficial. In addition to the Base contracts on production of chassis for MLRS family of tornadoes will be one of the enterprises of KAMAZ.
So the MZKT trucks currently used for cruise and ballistic missile armed Iskander, and shown with two pallets as the heavy part of Tornado system plus the S-300 and S-400 trucks, and the Grad, Uragan, and Smerch trucks are going to be replaced with a Russian vehicle made at BAZ while the light truck of the Tornado family will be a Kamaz truck.
That means that the tactical ballistic and cruise missile as well as multiple launch rocket systems and the long range Air Force SAMs will be based on BAZ and KAMAZ Russian made trucks. I rather suspect that the S-500 system will also be truck based for cost and mobility reasons.
That is a lot of trucks... and this will not be good for Belarus...
http://www.lenta.ru/news/2012/09/10/carriage/
medo- Posts : 4343
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http://bmpd.livejournal.com/330209.html
Russian military will buy Volvo refueling tankers. They will be build in Volvo factory in Kaluga, Russia.
Russian military will buy Volvo refueling tankers. They will be build in Volvo factory in Kaluga, Russia.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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Join date : 2011-12-06
2.) http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/09/103.html
Nice photo report of the 103rd repair plant in the Far East.
Among Russian vehicles, this is the plant where 98 Venezuelan T-72s were overhauled.
3.) http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/09/1.html
Photos of how a BMD-1 is modernized into a BMD-2, along with the weird MOD order for 135 units.
These photos are also from the 103rd.
Nice photo report of the 103rd repair plant in the Far East.
Among Russian vehicles, this is the plant where 98 Venezuelan T-72s were overhauled.
3.) http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2012/09/1.html
Photos of how a BMD-1 is modernized into a BMD-2, along with the weird MOD order for 135 units.
These photos are also from the 103rd.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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Join date : 2011-12-06
Shore battery has recently been modernized to protect Vladivostock
.