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    Russian Ground Forces: News #1

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:47 am

    I think the ultimate anti UAV weapon would be a 57mm laser guided shell with an effective range of 16km or so horizontally and perhaps 5-6km in altitude...
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    Post  Austin Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:34 pm

    Russia's Military Is Back
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:20 am

    Austin wrote:Russia's Military Is Back
    Oooh god, where to start. No 

    First of, comparing the Russian and U.S navy via there budgetary spending is stupid, rookie mistake.

    Second, if NATO is "concerned" about there "out of area operations" then perhaps they should stop expanding eastward.

    Third, harping (bitching) on about the Bulava and Admiral Gorshkov/Vikramaditya Standard western tactic as of late.

    Fourth, Questioning whether Russia can locally produce anything of the next generation, because some nitwit (Serdyukov) decided to import some equipment like the Iveco, Mistral and some Israeli drones, then at the same time claiming that Russia is importing these systems to Reverse-engineer cause no analogue can be produced locally.
    Sadly for this guy, i can read, now if i recall the Iveco's were practically useless ones there off-road, the Mistral are more of a stopgap for now and the only thing that Russia would revers-engineering are those UAVs from Israel.

    Fifth, Oooowh, doubt in the Russian economy and population, again standard western tactic.

    Sixth, Russia losing competitive edge to U.S, Euro and even Chinese defense firms cause it can't "keep pace with newer developments in defense technology"
    Ooh yeah, i think we all know how far Nato is with there superduper very advance subsonic cruise missiles and China is still reliant on whatever Russia lets them have.

    Seventh, "Whether the newfound confidence that results will make Russia more cooperative or obstructionist in the international arena is an open question."
    No, the open question is, will the west continue there push eastward and continue their idiocratic crusade or will they stop before getting us all killed.
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:12 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Austin wrote:Russia's Military Is Back
    Oooh god, where to start. No 

    First of, comparing the Russian and U.S navy via there budgetary spending is stupid, rookie mistake.

    Second, if NATO is "concerned" about there "out of area operations" then perhaps they should stop expanding eastward.

    Third, harping (bitching) on about the Bulava and Admiral Gorshkov/Vikramaditya Standard western tactic as of late.

    Fourth, Questioning whether Russia can locally produce anything of the next generation, because some nitwit (Serdyukov) decided to import some equipment like the Iveco, Mistral and some Israeli drones, then at the same time claiming that Russia is importing these systems to Reverse-engineer cause no analogue can be produced locally.
    Sadly for this guy, i can read, now if i recall the Iveco's were practically useless ones there off-road, the Mistral are more of a stopgap for now and the only thing that Russia would revers-engineering are those UAVs from Israel.

    Fifth, Oooowh, doubt in the Russian economy and population, again standard western tactic.

    Sixth, Russia losing competitive edge to U.S, Euro and even Chinese defense firms cause it can't "keep pace with newer developments in defense technology"
    Ooh yeah, i think we all know how far Nato is with there superduper very advance subsonic cruise missiles and China is still reliant on whatever Russia lets them have.

    Seventh, "Whether the newfound confidence that results will make Russia more cooperative or obstructionist in the international arena is an open question."
    No, the open question is, will the west continue there push eastward and continue their idiocratic crusade or will they stop before getting us all killed.
    Pretty much

    What's really scary is that this is the peak of Western intellectual discourse; or rather not the peak - but what passes for it all too often.
    You will have US military officers, intelligence analysts, policy-makers, etc... read this biased non-article and will actually believe that they're reading a balanced report on the issue; a condensed version of what a subscription to Jane's might have led them to believe (a far more objective publication but one that few people other than select military professionals will ever take the time to keep on top of).

    And then there is straight-up propaganda, like you can read about Russia's demographic, economic, military situation in some many US and European newspapers, websites, etc... although I'd imagine that most serious people will recognize them for what they are.

    Not so with an article like this however. It retains just enough balance to keep its cover and and not be called-out for its subtle fact-twisting and biased reporting.

    Whether the newfound confidence that results will make Russia more cooperative or obstructionist in the international arena is an open question
    This quote was a favourite of mine too.
    I mean is it really necessary to see all international relations through the prism of whether it directly serves American interests or not? Has the hubris and overconfidence really reached the point where it's fair to call any Russian defense of its legitimate interests even if they are odds with American - 'obstructionist'? And likewise call a situation where Russia might choose to serve American interests 'cooperative'?
    Is it really that hard to just write:

    'whether the newfound confidence that results will make Russia more inclined to compromise or more assertive of its interests in the international arena is an open question'

    I guess it really is just that hard to write something like that. It's something I noticed with almost all Western journalists and political analysts - they practice a form of self-censorship; whether as a result of pressure from their editorial board or because of their own fears of not getting taken seriously if they dare to deviate too far from the accepted norm.
    In this case - there is clearly no incentive for the author to be objective; there is nothing for him to gain in terms of appealing to his target audience, and few people will call him out on his writing I suspect - the soft propaganda and half-truths suit and soothe everybody I suspect..
    Zivo
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    Post  Zivo Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:39 am

    You guys made it farther than me.

    I made it to the first pic and closed the window. Laughing

    To be fair, I did actually read through it later after reading your comments.
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:20 am

    TR1 wrote:Bullpup PKP?
    Aparently not. I was wondering the same. 



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    Post  sepheronx Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:24 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Austin wrote:Russia's Military Is Back
    Oooh god, where to start. No 

    First of, comparing the Russian and U.S navy via there budgetary spending is stupid, rookie mistake.

    Second, if NATO is "concerned" about there "out of area operations" then perhaps they should stop expanding eastward.

    Third, harping (bitching) on about the Bulava and Admiral Gorshkov/Vikramaditya Standard western tactic as of late.

    Fourth, Questioning whether Russia can locally produce anything of the next generation, because some nitwit (Serdyukov) decided to import some equipment like the Iveco, Mistral and some Israeli drones, then at the same time claiming that Russia is importing these systems to Reverse-engineer cause no analogue can be produced locally.
    Sadly for this guy, i can read, now if i recall the Iveco's were practically useless ones there off-road, the Mistral are more of a stopgap for now and the only thing that Russia would revers-engineering are those UAVs from Israel.

    Fifth, Oooowh, doubt in the Russian economy and population, again standard western tactic.

    Sixth, Russia losing competitive edge to U.S, Euro and even Chinese defense firms cause it can't "keep pace with newer developments in defense technology"
    Ooh yeah, i think we all know how far Nato is with there superduper very advance subsonic cruise missiles and China is still reliant on whatever Russia lets them have.

    Seventh, "Whether the newfound confidence that results will make Russia more cooperative or obstructionist in the international arena is an open question."
    No, the open question is, will the west continue there push eastward and continue their idiocratic crusade or will they stop before getting us all killed.
    Problem that a lot of people don't understand about anything of anything of late, is Russian demographics and economy. While it is true that there are issues with things like stagnation and drug/alcohol abuse, things are changing. Alcoholism is down first time in over a decade, but drugs is a real issue.

    Economy that people cannot seem to look past is that yes, stagnation is now becoming a semi-reality, but there are manouvers in place and MANY westerners are not getting that news, actually, even if they are, they learned to ignore it and just look at the problem black and white. What people don't know is that Russia's economy is changing big time, like domestic consumption is increasing while external is decreasing, foreign investments are up, and the middle class as well as lower income are increasing quite a bit in a short period of time. Economy for Russia as well has a big impact on military and in that response, Russia's military budget is highest since the Soviet Union; but don't let that stand in a way of a good ragefest from westerners.

    Russian MiC couldn't be competitive now? So when they have more money, they are less competitive than in the days of the 90's where they were considered competitive, with no money? That makes very little sense. Common Sense is an oxymoron, as it really isn't common (it isn't hard for even a non-Russian speaking person to find news on development in Russia). USA is producing a 5th gen jet at same time as Russia now (F-35 vs PAK FA), and it seems that F-35 is forever in conflict with media and politicians, yet they love to tout it when they compare it to other countries equipment. So what is USA developing forever in, over Russia, that makes Russia less competitive? Actually, lets see China?

    Only thing China creates is nice looking shells with no public knowledge on subsystems, so it is really hard to judge. China has trouble developing jet engines, so how can we expect them to make leaps in other technologies that are NOT off the shelf? Their air defence systems are not impressive at all, actually, just knockoffs of other technology.

    USA has not produced any supersonic missiles, and their hypersonic development is about as close as Russia's in terms of R&D. Only recently USA has been able to be able to set up an air defence system capable of ABM that is semi-mobile, while Russia's S-300 series have had ABM capabilities for decades and is mobile. Their tank and armoured force is no longer brand spanking new, while Russia is investing in the Armata, Kurganets and Boomerang which is the way the west wants to move, a unified system using similar components, but they are not even close to something yet. USA is definately ahead in UAV technology and navy, and the NAvy is an easy understanding as their funding is astronomical for decades, and UAV technology was mostly shared with Israel for over a decade.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:17 am

    Heh remember the whole stupid "T-90MS has a hump!' nonsense that Tarsenko spread?

    For fun, Oplot:

    https://2img.net/r/ihimg/a/img856/6675/41qb.jpg
    http://photo.vesti.ua/storage/asset/image/2013/10/15/6/79/cec/fa118fae983ff607d30f5ceeff_30e30448.JPG

    Dat hump....

    Check out that terrible HMG/panoramic sight installation as well.


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    Post  Vympel Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:16 pm

    TR1 wrote:Heh remember the whole stupid "T-90MS has a hump!' nonsense that Tarsenko spread?

    For fun, Oplot:

    https://2img.net/r/ihimg/a/img856/6675/41qb.jpg
    http://photo.vesti.ua/storage/asset/image/2013/10/15/6/79/cec/fa118fae983ff607d30f5ceeff_30e30448.JPG

    Dat hump....

    Check out that terrible HMG/panoramic sight installation as well.


    What is up with that in the first place? Is Tarsenko just a biased partisan who twists everything into "KHARKOV STRONG!" Its sad, but unless Ukraine is annexed by Russia and Russia throws some defence orders its way, Kharkov plant is probably going tits up soon.
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    Post  Viktor Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:27 pm

    Nice fun

    http://defendingrussia.ru/
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    Post  TR1 Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:04 pm

    Vympel wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Heh remember the whole stupid "T-90MS has a hump!' nonsense that Tarsenko spread?

    For fun, Oplot:

    https://2img.net/r/ihimg/a/img856/6675/41qb.jpg
    http://photo.vesti.ua/storage/asset/image/2013/10/15/6/79/cec/fa118fae983ff607d30f5ceeff_30e30448.JPG

    Dat hump....

    Check out that terrible HMG/panoramic sight installation as well.


    What is up with that in the first place? Is Tarsenko just a biased partisan who twists everything into "KHARKOV STRONG!" Its sad, but unless Ukraine is annexed by Russia and Russia throws some defence orders its way, Kharkov plant is probably going tits up soon.
    Yeah Tarsenko has gone off the Ukraine-strong wall in the past several years, and has abandoned all pretenses of intellectual honesty.
    He was always USSR strong though.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:32 am

    Something interesting- apparently the BTR-80s steel armor was changed in the BTR-82 for an alluminum alloy.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:07 am

    It is not as bad as it seems...

    By weight and strength steel is obviously heavier and stronger than al.

    However when you start getting down to thinner and thinner sheets the difference in strength starts to become less obvious, but the weight difference remains.

    The point is that for x weight of steel you can have 3 times more al for the same weight.

    If you look at tin foil sheet steel and sheet al would not be that much difference in terms of protection as both are too thin to be an effective barrier.

    The strength difference does not become apparent until a certain thickness is achieved.

    More importantly because of the weight difference al reaches larger thicknesses quicker than steel does.

    In other words if you build a light armoured vehicle with 3mm steel armour it is not going to stop small arms fire. If you make it from 20mm steel armour then it will stop most small arms fire from a reasonable range (ie 200m or so).

    Making the vehicle 20mm thick will make it heavy, but having a face plate of steel and 40mm of aluminium plus various cavities and layers to break up bullets and fragments you can end up with better protection and better structural strength with reduced weight.

    Note the Bradley uses aluminium armour too.

    An interesting side note steel armour reacts with DU and generates super hot fragments that readily start fires etc The DU reacts with the steel and softens it on impact and it ignites like magnesium.

    Aluminium makes the armour thicker and with anti spall liners it actually protects better from small arms as well.
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    Post  Viktor Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:36 pm

    Its going to get interesting. russia 

    More than 10 countries will participate in biathlon tank in 2014
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    Post  TR1 Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:40 pm

    https://2img.net/r/ihimg/a/img12/2416/mmwx.jpg

    Koalition turret.

    Also interesting naval things in the background.
    Zivo
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    Post  Zivo Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:34 am

    TR1 wrote:https://2img.net/r/ihimg/a/img12/2416/mmwx.jpg

    Koalition turret.

    Also interesting naval things in the background.
    It has some interesting faceting.
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    Post  Austin Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:28 am

    Some interesting news from janes full report

    Russia completes SBA-60-K2 Bulat development Cool 

    More firepower offered for BMP-2 IFV

    RAE 2013: Terminator 2 makes its debut

    RAE 2013: Russia's latest BTR enters production
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:52 pm

    I love this thing:

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 27 Interpolitex2013part03-11-L
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:29 pm

    Lots of new equipment is going to south military district thumbsup 

    SWAT SOUTH until the end of 2013, will receive about 60 new "Typhoon"
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    Post  Mindstorm Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:49 pm

    Viktor wrote:Lots of new equipment is going to south military district thumbsup 

    SWAT SOUTH until the end of 2013, will receive about 60 new "Typhoon"

    This is a very good news; not only because the vehicle in question lie in a category of its own in comparison with cerresponding foreign products ,but also because Thyphoon's mass production will aid to tear down substantially the realization cost of the new generation of composites/ceramics armor in view, above all, of the high demand of efficient manufacturing lines for similar armor's material for the Boomerang and Kurganet family.
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    Post  Viktor Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:48 pm

    TR1 wrote:I love this thing:

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 27 Interpolitex2013part03-11-L
    It cute little thing ... but this monster is more in Russian style Very Happy  though I would like to have Scorpion as my personal car ... for clearing road traffic etc Very Happy 

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 27 PbxaeyU
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    Post  TheArmenian Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:29 pm

    TR1 wrote:I love this thing:

    Russian Ground Forces: News #1 - Page 27 Interpolitex2013part03-11-L
    Here is a fresh video that includes your "loved" one.
    By the way, have you made it to Moscow yet? In case you are there, say hello to Victor Cooper.

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    Post  TR1 Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:26 am

    I'll try to squeeze Cooper in, I got a meeting with your countryman that is more important.


    In all seriousness, I might have some interesting news/photos regarding aviation for you guys. Nothing military however.

    Going to be in Moscow in a week or so, have some stuff to take care off in France at the moment.

    Hope Skorpion is what it promises to be, just seems like the ideal UAZik replacement to me.
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    Post  TR1 Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:14 pm

    http://lenta.ru/news/2013/11/28/scorpio/

    Scoprion has passed gov testing, and the mil has recommended it for service!
    Passed all requirements, and surpassed mine and fire protection standards.
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    Post  volna Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:17 pm

    Hello!Has the Svinets APFSDS entered service?

    Sponsored content


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