Christianity Thread: Theology and Philosophy

We are back at the beginning. Many persons believe many different things, and many persons are not Christians, aren't followers of Jesus Christ. (But appreciate having the conversation with you. Thank you.)

To become a Christian is an act of grace, unmerited favor.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

draw: 1670
e&lkw Helkuo (hel-koo'-o);
Word Origin: Greek, Verb, Strong #: 1670
1. to draw, drag off
2. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

But, anyone who does, must by an act of faith, believe that the Bible, both the Old Testament, and the New Testament, are the inspired word of God. That God is True, and not a liar, and that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, to save the world.

This is just the best I can say it, and as a human being I am subject to error, and even as it says in the Bible, each person must search out what to believe for him or herself.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

Ac 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.


scriptures: 1124
grafhv Graphe (graf-ay'); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 1124
1. a writing, thing written
2. the Scripture, used to denote either the book itself, or its contents
3. a certain portion or section of the Holy Scripture



What scriptures was they searching in? They was searching "The Hebrew Bible", i.e. the Old Testament, which prophesys of Jesus Christ!

The form of this text that is authoritative for Rabbinic Judaism is known as the Masoretic Text (MT) and consists of 24 books,

https://overviewbible.com/masoretic-text/

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (2 Timothy 3:16 KJV)


2pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

2pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

2pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

2pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.



John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

comprehended: 2638
katalambavnw Katalambano (kat-al-am-ban'-o);
Word Origin: Greek, Verb, Strong #: 2638
to lay hold of
to lay hold of so as to make one's own, to obtain, attain to, to make one's own, to take into one's self, appropriate
to seize upon, take possession of
of evils overtaking one, of the last day overtaking the wicked with destruction, of a demon about to torment one
in a good sense, of Christ by his holy power and influence laying hold of the human mind and will, in order to prompt and govern it
to detect, catch
to lay hold of with the mind
to understand, perceive, learn, comprehend

Ac 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.[/u]

Again you need to remember that neither GOD , neither jesus wrote any bible, people that are human that can make mistakes (and missunderstand too jesus teachings) did it.  once you agree with this fact.. you can move from there.

im not saying or claiming God exist , or not.. i don't know. and neither can proof it , neither you can. is simply not possible to proof something that is not physical and cant' be seen. this however does not means god does not exist. just because you can't see it.. in other words.. im not debating at all the existance or not of GOD , simply don't know. maybe he do exist or maybe not , of maybe is something different to what we understand . what do we know,, is that jesus do believed in GOD
and claimed to be GOD in flesh , his representation.. ok?

and there is no "god inspiration" in those chapters you posted , underlined above.. this is simply jesus apostles saying what they did one day , in one place , Is not Jesus direct teachings


so learn to see in the bible between ,.
1) Jesus direct teachings. what he directly told to his apostles and people. (according to jesus apostles claims)
2) disciples letters to others christians ,of what they did one particular day ,or what they believed  
"quotes" in the bible..
3) Disciples reflections /opinions of what christianity really was.. notice that never any disciple of jesus spoke from the point of view of GOD. only jesus did that because claimed to be GOD.
4) and learn the differences between jews believes and opinions of who God was.. in the old testament .

also it will be helpful to see the huge contradictions between jesus GOD and old testament GOD.
Jesus spoke about a God with inconditional love for people.. the jews spoke about a vengeful God ,that was a tyrant like ,that was ready to punish people to the slightest offence and help his chosen people the jews to destroy other nations.  

so in which God you want to believe,, in the God of jesus or in the god of those that conspired to kill jesus.  even jesus spoke about this hypocrites jews using the term of the synagoge of satan.  

jews hate jesus , and jesus took most of jews and converted them to christianity ,to his teachings.
jesus contradict almost any law , any rule , any tradition of the jews.. so how can you follow the old testament ,when jesus contradicted it ?   did doesn't means that there are good things in the old testament , good poetry and things like that.. but according to jesus , jews missunderstood God big time and this is why he created a new commandment that replaced the 10 commandements of moses..

in jews 10 commandments ,, no means no.. don't do it.. never do it. no matter what..

in jesus golden rule ,, he allow people to become their own judge, and decide what is right and  what is wrong. Jesus golden rule ,  is far more flexible.  

it is right of wrong to lie?  
according to jews commandments is wrong ,is a sin..
but if you can save lives ,save people by lying to them, wouldnt this be a good thing?
lets say nazis asked you ,where are the childrens hidding of the entire city... will you tell nazis
about where your children and other childrens hidding?

The 10 commandments claims you should never kill.

but what if a drugged terrorist is trying to enter your house telling you will destroy and explode your entire family. wouldn't the most loving thing to do ,will be to stop this terrorist and shoot him ,to save your life and your family and your neighboorhood too ?

Read jesus gospels, Jews totally missunderstood GOD. and he was arrested and killed by them for telling the the truth.  and in my opinion he corrected and fixed it ,with his christianity.

also don't focus too much in what jesus apostles told. remember they missunderstood jesus too many times and when jesus left , the world. each apostle created their own religion ,which contradict each other too.. the peter church contradict the orthodox church in some things.. basically humans ,when they interpret things ,they can make mistakes and missundestand things..

in my opinion. the major reason , there is so many differences in the christians religions ,so many contradictory things. is because the man made institutions , took the "brilliant idea" to combine jews that hated jesus teachings in their torah scriptures ,with christian teachings ,  and likely because jesus teachings were too simple ,too good to be true.. of a God that will always forgive no matter what you do.  and so christian used the old testament, the jewish version of the bible ,to create a god , more human like , that is more similar to how humans solves their problems. with wars, with fights, with punishment etc.

the old testament is even full of sacrifices of animals ,to please GOD , and even teach the time , the
"Father of faith" abraham, a jews prophet , was going to kill his own son ,because "heard voices of GOD" telling him to do it.    common. the guy was an unstable crazy maniac and not a man of a peaceful and loving GOD. will you dare to follow a "prophet" teachings ,that listen voices that orders him to kill his family?     i bet you not.

english is not my native language ,but you need to learn to read. exactly what is being told.
is not that hard. the old testament is full of examples of a very tyranical ,egomaniacal god,
that had a constant need for "proof" of loyalty.. as if god could not know people minds , from the inside.

So to believe that jesus never opposed tyrants,  never complained about dictators , never lead any wars , (like jews prophets did )   ,a God that will always forgive , is too good to be true for those used to the Torah /old testament GOD that is more human ego like , with favorites ,and with bias for some ethnic groups.  So the best way to truly understand christianity , just focus in what jesus told , not what paul or john or judas told.. but jesus.

if you are christian, is jesus christ teachings what you need to follow.. not moses ,not abraham,not paul or peter, not catholic church or evangelical churches additions and new rules they created on top of the jesus teachings..  evangelicals speak about israel , how they need to be helped to destroy others.. this is ridiculous , jesus never spoke about promoting any war.  and any one who read jesus teachings will clearly accept this.  jesus even reprimanded his apostles ,when took the sword to defend him.. when he was arrested.  so who you want to follow ? if you want to follow jesus teachings. the follow what he told.. not what someone else told. ok?

because any claim ,that the entire bible is the "word of God" is a total assumption ,that you have absolutely no way to proof that. and the contradictions alone ,between old testament and new one are too huge ,to believe that both Gods are the same one.. Fact is , that jesus encouraged the creation of a new religion. so if judaism and the torah was soo good ,why jesus had the need to create a new religion? and create a new commandment ,the golden rule? he did it obviously ,because the jews religion was WRONG about jesus..   Jesus used the ancient scriptures at times, like the story of Job , that supposedly God and satan made a bet ,that job will not betray GOD ,and allowed satan to punish him , and kill his family.    if this is the GOD that you want believe? then how can you ever trust in such a tyrant? how can you ever relax in life ,if you can't even trust in GOD and think he can punish you at the slightest offense ? then why you need evil people when you have a tyrannical God like the one jews and their holly book promoted ?

you need to look at what jews , really believe.. go and see their talmud.. is the most racist
ideology in the world. that consider non jews worthy as dogs.

Jesus as adult only used the jews scriptures only for reference ,but he teach his own things , completely new teachings ,not in the old testament.   because the torah are things , the jews are more used to understand. but make no mistake , jesus contradicted almost everything jews teach.  jesus claimed,, yes there is one god to the jews, but there is one catch.. that he was that GOD.  
naturally many jews used to the torah , to an exceptional GOD ,exclusive for jews ,for the chosen ones ,will have never accepted that..  the apostles however converted to christianity .

Jesus claimed to be GOD , there is no question about this.. and his main enemies , those seeking to destroy him was the jews.. and interestingly jews  today , still hate christians and they are the ones leading the charge against the destruction of them, through their business ,their power and money ,and influence over governments.. most jews (not everyone) are materialistic people , who cares more about power and fame and social class.. totally outward materialistic looking religion. while   christianity as taught by jesus was the opposite ,totally inward looking one.

christianity as taught directly by jesus  is more similar to budism , but with a God. they are true religions of peace ,religions that looks inward and not at the material things in the world. it is also similar in many ways to india religions too..  in the sense that they are inward looking religions.
and not political focused.. as the islam and judaism are.  

if you want to know which religions promotes real peace of not.. look at those countries where is practiced. if you see those countries always at war, solving their problems with other nations always with bombs , then is because their religion ,what they practice is not what jesus christianity promoted.


what people believe inside sooner or later will show it outside,.. and this is why israel and america and britain are so war loving nations ,their countries have been educated their people ,into the racist part of the bible , believe of the moses God ,a racist God ,that have exceptional people superior than others."the chosen ones" to survive in the end of the world.  jesus christianity instead in the new testament promoted that we are all equals for GOD and that violence is not how you solve things. judaism and old testament torah and islam .and bible old testament teach ideologies that creates divisions in the world ,because believe in the superiority of one race over another ,new testament christianity ,specially jesus direct teachings and budism are true ideologies of unity among society and cooperation , and peace.

this is why i was saying ,the biggest problem ,the world face today. is that vast overwhelming majority of people ,perhaps 95% percent, to just say a number ,  have been educated from childhood to become totally dependent in their thinking , and trained to always assume to be correct ,what their authorities in politics , religion ,science and health industries tells them to be "truth".  but they are not aware of this nasty bad habit of humans of desire for power and greed , to try to take advantage of others and try to control populations through fear.. and now they are telling you ,that the "only way" you can live, a better life and not die ,is by taking vaccine shot every year , every month with their genetical experiments.  Jesus teachings spoke about illness and viruses and clearly told to his disciples that it was what you believe in your mind and heart ,what can damage you and not the things that comes from outside.. Jesus teachings are known today in new age spirituality as methaphysics, and what methaphysics teach is that everything that comes into your life , is created by you in some way or another ,by the thoughts ,by the feelings and by the believes ,you hold.
so if you want best possible experiences,, then have always the best thoughts ,feelings and optimism about the future.

There's Within My Heart a Melody

1. There's within my heart a melody
Jesus whispers sweet and low:
Fear not, I am with thee, peace, be still,
in all of life's ebb and flow.

Refrain:
Jesus, Jesus, Jesus,
sweetest name I know,
fills my every longing,
keeps me singing as I go.

2. All my life was wrecked by sin and strife,
discord filled my heart with pain;
Jesus swept across the broken strings,
stirred the slumbering chords again.
(Refrain)

3. Though sometimes he leads through waters deep,
trials fall across the way,
though sometimes the path seems rough and steep,
see his footprints all the way.
(Refrain)

4. Feasting on the riches of his grace,
resting neath his sheltering wing,
always looking on his smiling face,
that is why I shout and sing.
(Refrain)

5. Soon he's coming back to welcome me
far beyond the starry sky;
I shall wing my flight to worlds unknown;
I shall reign with him on high.
(Refrain)

The United Methodist Hymnal Number 380
Text: Luther B. Bridgers
Music: Luther B. Bridgers
Tune: SWEETEST NAME, Meter: 97.97 with Refrain


Luther B. Bridgers

In 1914 he was named General Evangelist by the Methodist Episcopal Church, South and married Aline Winburn with whom he sired Luther B. Bridgers, Jr (1915-1992). In the years immediately following World War I Bridgers took part in missionary outreaches to Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_B._Bridgers

All scientists have to do , is prove either how matter spontaneously came into being from nothingness or to prove how different atomic variables and values could lead to a much better world . Meaning that this world is not the best possible world and hence there can be no God . A better world in my mind , is one where there is no pain . Pain is a result of illness or death of killing or predation .  Why can't all creatures be solar powered and static and immortal ?

And in our universe  , everything is caused . Every human action is caused externally or internally . So free will is an illusion . And if the universe had a creator then it all goes back all to him . Hitler was his fault . But since he is all powerful , then all is good . It is us , who see imperfection . Since we are human and feel pain . We see this to be unfair !

I don't think that even quantum theory can dispel causation . Since there is no reason to assume that electrons being in two positions , are a random event . And if reality solidifies upon observation by us into particles , otherwise it is a kind of wave function soup , does not mean that this reality is somewhat subjective . All it could mean is that reality is designed this way , as an energy saving  measure .

And if God made us in his image , then our universe should be uncaused , like God . But it is not . So if there is a God , he ( or she or it or whatever ) did not make us in his image . A being creating another being of equal power , would be pointless repetition . And creating one of greater power , even if possible , would lead to the lesser God being made redundant and pointless . So we may be logically a lesser creation .

Professor Bart Ehrman:

It is a very big mistake to think that the “God of the Old Testament” is a different God from the “God of the New Testament” — even though that is a common view among Christians who want to insist that unlike the OT God of wrath, their God is a God of love.  Not only does that smack of rather unsubtle anti-Judaism (that “harsh religion of a vengeful God” as opposed to “our God who loves each and every one of us and is merciful instead of judgmental”), it simply is not at all the view of the authors of the New Testament, let alone Jesus himself.

Jesus understood himself as a teacher of the Jewish Scriptures.  He didn’t have another God.  Moreover throughout the entire NT the OT is quoted, up and down the line, all over the place, in complete affirmation of its message.  Jesus and his followers may have had their own interpretations of the OT (they had different interpretations even among themselves), but they would have been shocked and offended if anyone suggested their God was anything other than the God of the Jews who created the world, chose Israel to be his people, promised to be with them as their divine protector, guided them on their journey, and punished them when they went astray.

https://ehrmanblog.org/26895-2/

gc3762 wrote:Professor Bart Ehrman:

It is a very big mistake to think that the “God of the Old Testament” is a different God from the “God of the New Testament” — even though that is a common view among Christians who want to insist that unlike the OT God of wrath, their God is a God of love.  Not only does that smack of rather unsubtle anti-Judaism (that “harsh religion of a vengeful God” as opposed to “our God who loves each and every one of us and is merciful instead of judgmental”), it simply is not at all the view of the authors of the New Testament, let alone Jesus himself.

Jesus understood himself as a teacher of the Jewish Scriptures.  He didn’t have another God.  Moreover throughout the entire NT the OT is quoted, up and down the line, all over the place, in complete affirmation of its message.  Jesus and his followers may have had their own interpretations of the OT (they had different interpretations even among themselves), but they would have been shocked and offended if anyone suggested their God was anything other than the God of the Jews who created the world, chose Israel to be his people, promised to be with them as their divine protector, guided them on their journey, and punished them when they went astray.

https://ehrmanblog.org/26895-2/

I absolutely agree with this!! (if I could put a heart emoji here, I would!)

I bookmarked your link to read in the morning! (Lord willing!) Thank you for posting it.

nomadski wrote:All scientists have to do , is prove either how matter spontaneously came into being from nothingness or to prove how different atomic variables and values could lead to a much better world . Meaning that this world is not the best possible world and hence there can be no God . A better world in my mind , is one where there is no pain . Pain is a result of illness or death of killing or predation .  Why can't all creatures be solar powered and static and immortal ?

And in our universe  , everything is caused . Every human action is caused externally or internally . So free will is an illusion . And if the universe had a creator then it all goes back all to him . Hitler was his fault . But since he is all powerful , then all is good . It is us , who see imperfection . Since we are human and feel pain . We see this to be unfair !

I don't think that even quantum theory can dispel causation . Since there is no reason to assume that electrons being in two positions , are a random event . And if reality solidifies upon observation by us into particles , otherwise it is a kind of wave function soup , does not mean that this reality is somewhat subjective . All it could mean is that reality is designed this way , as an energy saving  measure .

And if God made us in his image , then our universe should be uncaused , like God . But it is not . So if there is a God , he ( or she or it or whatever ) did not make us in his image . A being creating another being of equal power , would be pointless repetition . And creating one of greater power , even if possible , would lead to the lesser God being made redundant and pointless . So we may be logically a lesser creation .

The better world, with no pain, according to the scriptures, & Christian belief, isn't this one. This one is just temporary. The next one will be eternal.


Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Free will is a Christianity concept: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

There are a lot of "whosoever"s in the Bible! 93 in the New Testament. It means persons have a choice, they can choose!

In this world, there is both good and evil. Almighty God, who created man and everything, who is good, and the devil, also created by God, but who rebelled and was cast out of heaven, who is a liar and a thief, and a murderer.

That's the Christian viewpoint.

Jesus speaking: John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.



Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Ps 33:7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses.

Ps 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.

Ps 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Ps 33:10 The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.

Ps 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Ps 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.


Do you think that the God of the United States is the Lord? No, He is not the God of the United States and hasn't been for I don't know how long! There are many believers in the United States, but our Government is ungodly, not godly. Although there may be, I don't know, some godly persons in government. the Lord is not the God of this nation. Probably money is.

@ gc3762

".....Jesus and his followers may have had their own interpretations of the OT ....."

Every generation has it's own viewpoint . As knowledge increases , our views change . We gain a better understanding of the world . The prophets as philosophers may have had  their understanding . But our understanding may be better than theirs today . They may have had mistakes and errors . They were human .

@ Cowboy's  daughter

"......The better world, with no pain, according to the scriptures, & Christian belief, isn't this one. This one is just temporary. The next one will be eternal....... "

It makes no sense to build two separate worlds , one better and another worse . Since the amount of goodness or value is not increased as much as building one world with the maximum amount of goodness and value . A world of infinite value , does not increase in value by adding any finite value .

".......For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,......"

And since this act of giving his son was good , then why not repeat ? Give more and more sons and daughters and birds and bees...... In fact that is what God did .  We are all the sons and daughters of God . His creation . Jesus ( pbuh ) was human like us . A philosopher and carpenter .

"......In this world, there is both good and evil......"

A better way to think about it , is to see natural laws that give rise to great diversity . These laws govern all . Seeing evil , is not understanding the operation of these laws of nature . Thinking of them as being wrong in some way .

"....The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, ......"

scientists tell us that the world had a beginning  and it will have an end . So when the world ends , no need for any council . In about 500 billion years !

"....Do you think that the God of the United States is the Lord? No, He is not the God of the United States and hasn't been for I don't know how long! There are many believers in the United States, but our Government is ungodly, not godly. Although there may be, I don't know, some godly persons in government. the Lord is not the God of this nation. Probably money is....."

Extinction awaits all . Part of natural law . But don't worry , there will be other humans in our place . A new race and breed . Diversity .The greatest value in the greatest number and type of beings in the greatest desired  number of planets . A painter with a great canvass and many depictions .

gc3762 wrote:Professor Bart Ehrman:

It is a very big mistake to think that the “God of the Old Testament” is a different God from the “God of the New Testament” — even though that is a common view among Christians who want to insist that unlike the OT God of wrath, their God is a God of love.  Not only does that smack of rather unsubtle anti-Judaism (that “harsh religion of a vengeful God” as opposed to “our God who loves each and every one of us and is merciful instead of judgmental”), it simply is not at all the view of the authors of the New Testament, let alone Jesus himself.

Jesus understood himself as a teacher of the Jewish Scriptures.  He didn’t have another God.  Moreover throughout the entire NT the OT is quoted, up and down the line, all over the place, in complete affirmation of its message.  Jesus and his followers may have had their own interpretations of the OT (they had different interpretations even among themselves), but they would have been shocked and offended if anyone suggested their God was anything other than the God of the Jews who created the world, chose Israel to be his people, promised to be with them as their divine protector, guided them on their journey, and punished them when they went astray.

https://ehrmanblog.org/26895-2/

And that's completely wrong .  

Jesus did not saw himself as a "teacher of the jewish scriptures".

that's a total lie.

Jesus himself saw as GOD ,and he told it.

and the jews  people that self proclaimed "chosen people of GOD"  not even recognize Jesus
as their prophet , or even less as GOD.

So if you want to be a christian , how can you follow the teachings of a culture ,that their religion teach of a totally different GOD , that was "supposedly loving" and "Caring" , but play favorites , and had their "special chosen people" . a God that clearly in the Old testament calls for the destruction of israel enemies, people that also conspired to kill jesus ?  and jail christians who followed him.?

those are not the "GOD chosen  people ", but impostors , that used their religion to control humanity and fabricated /manipulated their scriptures to make them superior to others races.


take a look.. the disciples misunderstood Jesus too.. they believed jesus and GOD
are two things..  but it was not two , but one..  here is a very clear , statement of jesus
that is not possible to "interpret" in any other way , than what jesus told..

the disciples asked fair question , based on the fact they are humans , an imperfect in their
reasoning , because this concepts of jesus was totally new , never seen before in the jews torah teachings of the old testament.

jesus response to "where is your God? where is your God father"  show us God ,so that we can believe(in God and you as his son). what was jesus response?  the next things jesus told are the most painful for jews and for those zionist evangelical christians  and refuse to accept.. but JESUS told it and in such a way , you can't interpret it in another way.
so lets see what Jesus told ,when he was asked,, Where is your father GOD .show it to use ,so we can believe in him

John 14:8-21

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 [/b] You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. [/b]

So which part of jesus words you don't understand ? this is clear as water .  JEsus used the name
"Father" and "son" only as an allegory ,so that primitive minds could better accept him as a prophets of GOD  [ at least] , but later , in the last days of jesus in this world.. he told his closest followers in private.. hey you now what? there are no differences between God son and God father.. is the same thing. Jesus clearly told he was God and many many many many many many many times....

so good luck trying to debunk this.. you will lose BIG time. Because jesus saw himself as GOD.
Jesus teachings timing is also important , the more closer jesus was to his final days in the world , the more advanced and more direct was his teachings. The more direct was his words.. the biblical jesus in new testament , the one that converted judaism jews into his new religion ,he used the concepts of GOD "father" and God "son" , only for the ignorant masses, so that they can move forward with his other teachings..and not be lost in details that was not necessary to understand for beginners , But about his last few days in his physical life on this world , he explained he was GOD in the flesh .  so lets see..


did you need an "interpretation of this ...?  
how many times/sentences Jesus used to tell he was God in that conversation alone with his closer followers the disciples in private ..(that missunderstood jesus) most important teachings, lets do the counting..  



John 14:8-21

again more slowly , so you see it he told it.

1) Anyone who has seen me  has seen the Father.  How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?


2) Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?


3) The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work

4) Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me;

5) or at least believe on the evidence of the  works   themselves.

he means , at least believe in the evidence of jesus tons of miracles , healing incurable illness and conditions and ressurection of  death people as [proof he was GOD]

6) Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [/size]

7) And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14   You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.


So you can...

- do the same thing that jews do.. and reject jesus teachings and claim he was wrong..

- do the same things muslims do ,and some jews do , and downgrade jesus , to "just another prophet" or a "teacher of jewish scriptures" ,  

-or do the same things that wealthy jews that control media say ,and deny jesus existence or claim he was just a magician or an impostor , and say the new testament was all a fabrication of christians.

-So you can disagree jesus all you want.. or even believe he did not existed at all and was made up character...    


What you can't say


Is that jesus did not told , he was GOD , because......


HE DID IT  

and there is no question about this , jesus did it.. claimed to be God, and there is no question that it was jews authorities of the times, his biggest enemies , that conspired to kill him ,because was threatening the very existence of jewish religion.  

So if you are christian , and your christian religion tells you , Jesus was not GOD , or that the old
testament and new one teach similar things or same thing , then you are seriously mistaken.
So great is jews religion ,and jews teachings and jews GOD ,that jesus feel the need to promote a new religion ,with a very different GOD , a GOD that always forgive ,that by the way ,jesus claimed to be . ..  


So you can't say jesus don't claimed to be GOD , he did it.. period.
and the above example is one of so many others . This is why Jesus spoke with so much
Marvel super hero authority  ,   Because he believed to be GOD.  and with examples show it . through his miracles that defy science  , including defeating dead , teleportation , commanding the winds during a storm to calm , multiplying fish ,and  ressurection of himself and people.

So there is only one way for you..
you either reject jesus claims , or says he didn't exist.. but don't insult our intelligence ,don't say jesus did not believed ,did not told he was GOD because..  


He did it....


And for the record. all this claims of jesus , to be GOD , are not "Taken out of context "
the most classic way of disinformation of charlatans.  is not "hand picked" phrases ,
and later "connected" to deceive . This explain a lot , a lot of things jesus told , and jesus did.
because he spoke with such huge authority , he believed he was GOD.

John 14:6
Jesus told.“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."


john 14:35
jesus told , “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty

This is why jesus spoke like no human ever before spoke , he truly believed he was GOD.
and the Father God and father Son concept ,was merely used earlier on his preaching career ,
for easier understanding of people that were not ready to listen he was GOD , because that will have made it difficult to preach for people who think he is crazy.


in closing..

This is why i said before , that the world biggest problem , is their education is very poor and manipulated by corrupt and greedy bastards ,who wants to control society . is like living in a north korea regime ,that the government blocks any information they don't like ,but not being aware of the censorship and suppression of the information by the major institutions.


. What makes the world chaotic ,is that overwhelming majority of society in the world , are dumbed , trained from childhood by their authorities in their political system , religious system ,scientific authorities system , big corporate media system , and health industry system, to believe blindly what they tell you to be true ,without verifying ,without investigating. Trained to be extremely dependent on their authorities ,to believe whatever thing they tell you.. to be the "Truth".

So in the scientific care.. scientist that follow the american controlled scientific institutions , will be misleading into thinking the world trade center building 7 , "collapsed due to fires" , this is a building that fall in exactly same way of a remote controlled demolition. but the blind faith intheir system , makes many scientist to just trust in their institutions.

in the religious case.. is the same thing..
cristians don't understand their own bible , never question how it was made or organized or created.
muslims don't understand their own quran holy book. jews , maybe they understand their torah (which is part of the bible old testament) and racist talmud , but they simply don't care about doing good to all humanity . racist people do racist things.. and they only care about power ,money and fame and social ranking.

but if a christian/muslim ,of jew  question something in their religion manual, what will their authorities man made religions tell you?   You are not supposed to question the mysteries of God.  

The world institutions, weather they are politics ,scientifc or religious , or health industry , pharma industry they don't want or at least they promote society that thinks by themselves ,that have their own independent thinking.. because if independent thinking and research and discussion is fully allowed ,that will bring down their entire control over society and their corrupt business too.

So by society following blindly ,everything their authorities tell you , the end result is a world full of corruption in politics , corruption in science ,corruption in religion , corruption in health industry ,corruption in health industry ,pharma industry and all that corruption will be unchecked , and allowed to continue. And so billions of people will be blindly follows manipulated data , significantly limiting society own independence from those institutions and their own development.

Was Jesus a Jew? Of course, Jesus was a Jew. He was born of a Jewish mother, in Galilee, a Jewish part of the world. All of his friends, associates, colleagues, disciples, all of them were Jews. He regularly worshipped in Jewish communal worship, what we call synagogues. He preached from Jewish text, from the Bible. He celebrated the Jewish festivals. He went on pilgrimage to the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem where he was under the authority of priests.... He lived, was born, lived, died, taught as a Jew. This is obvious to any casual reader of the gospel text. What's striking is not so much that he was a Jew but that the gospels make no pretense that he wasn't. The gospels have no sense yet that Jesus was anything other than a Jew. The gospels don't even have a sense that he came to found a new religion, an idea completely foreign to all the gospel text, and completely foreign to Paul. That is an idea which comes about only later. So, to say that he was a Jew is saying a truism, is simply stating an idea that is so obvious on the face of it, one wonders it even needs to be said. But, of course, it does need to be said because we all know what happens later in the story, where it turns out that Christianity becomes something other than Judaism and as a result, Jesus in retrospect is seen not as a Jew, but as something else, as a founder of Christianity. But, of course, he was a Jew.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/bornliveddied.html

Lu 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

Lu 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

Lu 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Lu 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Lu 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

Lu 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

Lu 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.




I Love You Lord + I Exalt Thee | Live at Gateway Church | Gateway Worship






Gateway Church (Texas)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_Church_(Texas)

gc3762 wrote:Was Jesus a Jew? Of course, Jesus was a Jew. He was born of a Jewish mother, in Galilee, a Jewish part of the world. All of his friends, associates, colleagues, disciples, all of them were Jews. He regularly worshipped in Jewish communal worship, what we call synagogues. He preached from Jewish text, from the Bible. He celebrated the Jewish festivals. He went on pilgrimage to the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem where he was under the authority of priests.... He lived, was born, lived, died, taught as a Jew. This is obvious to any casual reader of the gospel text. What's striking is not so much that he was a Jew but that the gospels make no pretense that he wasn't. The gospels have no sense yet that Jesus was anything other than a Jew. The gospels don't even have a sense that he came to found a new religion, an idea completely foreign to all the gospel text, and completely foreign to Paul. That is an idea which comes about only later. So, to say that he was a Jew is saying a truism, is simply stating an idea that is so obvious on the face of it, one wonders it even needs to be said. But, of course, it does need to be said because we all know what happens later in the story, where it turns out that Christianity becomes something other than Judaism and as a result, Jesus in retrospect is seen not as a Jew, but as something else, as a founder of Christianity. But, of course, he was a Jew.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/bornliveddied.html

Who you are , is not defined , by the place you are born. Neither by the religion that used to practice your parents..  There are christians , that were born from atheist parents..  there are christians ,that were born from jewish parents.


You put labels on jesus ,that he never claimed to be. Mention when did jesus claimed to be a jew ?
Jesus not even believed in politics or national flags. if jesus was a jew as you claim ,then it was a rebel ,that destroyed the religion , by creating a new one. Since childhoold Jesus contradict the jewish teachings, rebelled against it..  alcohol was prohibit in the jewish religon ,yet the mother of jesus and their invitees , drink wine..  

And Just because you or some people called him Rabbi , does not means he was one.
Jesus was not a teacher , he was God. Teacher is someone with limited knowledge ,that learn from others.. Jesus in the other hand was self aware , self concious ,of being GOD . he did not learned anything he was God , and god does not learn , he is the knowledge ,from where everything comes.
some jews called him a demon ,that does not means they were right.  so nice try , trying to deny
Jesus own claims.. he claimed to be God and he reversed jews teachings and if he truly believe in judaism teachings, he will be sponsoring moses and their prophets.. but jesus claimed to be higher than moses and abraham..   and equally himself to GOD..

mathew 14:9  

"Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father."

So just accept , you are wrong . jesus was not a "Teacher of jewish scriptures" ,  thats a total lie..
majority of jesus teachings are galaxies away different to what jews religious authorities or muslim leaders believe.

not a "jewish scriptures teacher" , what jesus tells people is not anywhere in the judaism .

John 14:6

Jesus told.. “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”…


Not a jew , neither  abraham , or moses ever spoke like this..


@Cowboy's daughter

you can show me , mountains of songs of worship , of zionist christians.. but to be a christian,
beauty and love is not enough , you need to be intelligent too  and wise.  i know of many evangelicals christians that their lives have been ruined by this fake christian religions ,that worship more the bible and israel ,than jesus.  there are christian cults ,that are dangerous for people ,for the nonsense infiltrated in their religion.. one is evangelicals , mormoms for example ,this are fake christians , almost hypocrites at times. that talk about God love , jesus love , but then go a praise israel bombs to kill palestians women and children..  it is sad , entire generations of christians , being so brainwashed by all this infiltrated political cult of zionism.

This might sound rude , but it will be better you wake up . jews are not your friends as they claim to be. jews television , is the only one in the world ,that mock jesus crucifiction and teach them to disrespect christian faith right from the very start..

and the above troll ,that deny jesus claimed to be God , and try to label him as just " a teacher of jewish scriptures" is not a christian ,but a troll, and you should not be liking his propaganda .  
most jews hates christians.. this is what all this hypocrites will not tell you . and this is why hollywood is at war with christianity.  They advertise to be "great friends" of christians ,yet they allow in their television , to compare jesus as a monkey . their stand up comedians jokes about the killing
of jesus too..  Jews are not your friends.. as they claim.. they are opportunistics hypocrites that pretend they care about christians..but they do it for political advantage, but israel is the main enemy of the christian faith.. not happy with conspiring to the killing of jesus , they are the main forces attacking christian faith ,mocking it , in the world..  their documentaries about christianity, they are all 100% to discredit jesus.. as a magician impostor , or as a human that married a prostitute magdalene , or now as just a "Teacher of jews scriptures"    

is not me that you need to argue.. i don't reject , that jesus claimed to be God. your zionist friend does. your jewish friends , those are the ones you need to educate about what jesus told , who he really was.  And ask them ,why they hate christians so much.. to be honest about it.

educating brainwashed christians.. about what jews believe about christian faith.

jesus was a monkey according to israel media




The only television in the world , that openly make fun about christians and jesus.

is the israeli jews tv.




Even jewish comedians recognize they killed jesus..  here is one making fun of the killing of jesus.




@cowboy girl..

this is why i was saying ,the problem the world face , is that people take blindly everything their major institutions tell them,for granted without verifying, you can't do that.. the world big corporate media and banking industry is controlled by satanic jews , who hate christians and is pushing to destroy all christians religions except those they can heavily influence ,like evangelicals and mormons.  This is why jews created the liberal movement and feminism.  is to completely reverse
the christian values on society , for anti christians ones..



. and they can influence world politics , world science and world institutions.  you will never hear anywhere , why jews were kicked from all nations in the world and why they need their own state.
if you are kicked one time or two or three.. then it might mean nothing , but if jews were kicked from all european countries ,and several times,, then maybe there is something history is not telling about jews culture and religion and the world media is not allowing anyone to discuss..  satanism , sacrifices of christians children, the drinking of human blood in their rituals are just a few of the scandals you will find in the jewish culture and traditions. even the bible speak about this jews satanic traditions.. when moses came from the mount , found jews worshiping the moloc bull god and offering human sacrifices.


so jews people were the first ones to practice human sacrifices ..
some jews sect worshipped this GOD.

Moloch


human sacrifices, was part of jewish old traditions , the abraham story in old testament is a perfect example how biblical jews considered acceptable the sacrificing your child if they heard "voices" of "a god" , telling them to do it.  

This is not saying all jews are equal , there are good people in all religions , usually people better than the religions they follow ,but you can't ignore this.. before jews believed in one God ,they believed in many Gods earlier and practiced human sacrifices.
and they had traditions to stone womens prostitutes to death. Jesus saved one from this.  all this barbaric middle east arabs culture of repression against womens , was inspired by abrahamic culture of jews.. alchohol prohibition and pork , too..  mutilation of genitals, this is a jewish religion tradition.
was also copied by muslim from jews... christianity is the only middle east religion that distanced
from the crazy nut traditions of jews and their prophets . no wonder why jews hate jesus..
Jesus called all this fake God worshippers, that downplayed his authority , the synagogue of satan.

even jews don't hide... the satanic nature of zionism jews.
What every evangelical christian should know about their zionist /jewish friends..
what many of them really believe. All this human sacrifices traditions of jews , continues
in modern times , too.

oprah winfield spoke about this sinagogue of satan that jesus spoke about..
this was long time ago ,when american media was still free and not controlled by jews  

Satanic Ritual Baby Sacrifice on Oprah Winfrey, Cannibalism, Pedophilia



What is the point of all this? that should should not blindly follow all your authorities story telling and official institutions today , most if not all are  corrupt and controlled by someone else, weather is governments ,scientific institutions , federal institutions , health industry or major main religions too..  The real world is very different ,that the major mainstream narrative claims.
evangelical faith is fake christianity, it doesn't means , that there aren't good christians in evangelical church ,but that their understanding of jesus christianity will be wrong.  if you want to follow jesus messages and teachings , then follows what he claims.. not what someone prophet or religion says


independent thinkers , people that do their own investigation and research will find the truth.
those that follow the major government institutions wave , major religious institutions , major scientific world institutions,major media institutions, major health institutions will be guided to
failure , because they all wants to control society and not make them free.  [b]From North Korea ,to North America, they all want to control society and keep their unfair and corrupt system for the super rich ,going for ever, even if that means censoring the information you receive and or hiding the truth  from you .

No government , not even puppet putin president of russia ,will tell you jews are either power /satan worshippers . and that islam prophet was a terrorist ,head chopper and pedophile, only christianity as directly taught by jesus promotes freedom ,independence of society and peace.

I'm not sure that Jewish persons was the first to practice human sacrifices.

Moloch, also spelled Molech, a Canaanite deity associated in biblical sources with the practice of child sacrifice. The name derives from combining the consonants of the Hebrew melech (“king”) with the vowels of boshet (“shame”), the latter often being used in the Old Testament as a variant name for the popular god Baal (“Lord”).

In the Hebrew Bible, Moloch is presented as a foreign deity who was at times illegitimately given a place in Israel’s worship as a result of the syncretistic policies of certain apostate kings.

The laws given to Moses by God expressly forbade the Jews to do what was done in Egypt or in Canaan. “You shall not give any of your children to devote them by fire to Moloch, and so profane the name of your God” (Leviticus 18:21).

Yet kings such as Ahaz (2 Kings 16:3) and Manasseh (2 Kings 21:6), having been influenced by the Assyrians, are reported to have worshipped Moloch at the hilled site of Topheth, outside the walls of Jerusalem.

This site flourished under Manasseh’s son King Amon but was destroyed during the reign of Josiah, the reformer. “And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom, that no one might burn his son or his daughter as an offering to Moloch” (2 Kings 23:10).

Cowboy's daughter wrote:I'm not sure that Jewish persons was the first to practice human sacrifices.

Moloch, also spelled Molech, a Canaanite deity associated in biblical sources with the practice of child sacrifice. The name derives from combining the consonants of the Hebrew melech (“king”) with the vowels of boshet (“shame”), the latter often being used in the Old Testament as a variant name for the popular god Baal (“Lord”).

In the Hebrew Bible, Moloch is presented as a foreign deity who was at times illegitimately given a place in Israel’s worship as a result of the syncretistic policies of certain apostate kings.

The laws given to Moses by God expressly forbade the Jews to do what was done in Egypt or in Canaan. “You shall not give any of your children to devote them by fire to Moloch, and so profane the name of your God” (Leviticus 18:21).

Yet kings such as Ahaz (2 Kings 16:3) and Manasseh (2 Kings 21:6), having been influenced by the Assyrians, are reported to have worshipped Moloch at the hilled site of Topheth, outside the walls of Jerusalem.

This site flourished under Manasseh’s son King Amon but was destroyed during the reign of Josiah, the reformer. “And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom, that no one might burn his son or his daughter as an offering to Moloch” (2 Kings 23:10).

The best advice you could ever get , is..

Don't follow blindly everything your mainstream institutions tells you is the truth.
weather is mainstream media , or mainstream government policies , or mainstream scientific institutions , or main stream pharma and health industry , or mainstream historians , they all
are controlled one way or another by those in power or by big money and will want to keep all society heavily ignorant about certain subjects ,that they feel "is not proper for you to know".

So how can ever you learn ,if the facts are hidden from you?  by having the correct information , or at least the one that most likely appears to be the correct one , after major independent research from your part , after you see both sides or more of any story.

examples of what world governments are hidding from you.

Your will never get the fact from putin's controlled Russia about islam and jews very dark past ,
for fear that society will rebel against them  .  like for example in caucasus russia , many times womens in muslim republics are raped with the full participation of both families , of the daughter family and the terrorist family too.      RT.com have very slightly touched the subject , but it does still today happen.

Neither no government in Russia will ever tell or help you remember the dark history and negative role of jews in the  russian empire..  The anti semitism , of better say the lack of trust in jews , was already popular in all europe and russia too , for their ritual sacrifices of christians children of some hard core jewish sects . The it was jews who killed 2 times , 2 tzars in russia. alexander and nicholais 2 was killed by extreme jewish sects.  Whenever the western intel agencies wants to attack Russia ,they recruit either hard core jews , or radical muslim to do the job because of their historical anti christian and anti russian past.  

if you see an evil man genuinely praising something ,you better stay away from that.  don't you think?

Netanyahu: Evangelical Christians are Israel’s best friends

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-evangelical-christians-are-israels-best-friends/


This is the guy that with one hand he shakes the hand of evangelical christians, which are the main supportive force in US for israel wars, and with that same hand , he shakes the hand of Alqaeda terror groups working in syria.  Neither zionism , neither islam promote peace , they are war loving
/power grabbing ideologies. and so the old testament/torah/jewish prophets too.

What big corporate anglo mainstream media is not telling you , that US military and NATO -israel allies ,was really doing in Syria , with full complicity of all evangelicals/mormons politicians in the government.

and alliance of the anglo democratic west , with NATO and israel partners With world worse terror organizations Alqaeda and ISIS , to take down Syria .

This is how your mainstream media and mainstream politicians deceive you about the syrian war.




And here an example of the explosive evidence ,that world mainstream scientific institutions , are not telling you ,  not even reported under Putin's Russia. The main theory is the corrupt president of Russia putin ,helped to cover this , for a big $$$ loan of the west banking institutions.


3,441 Independent Architects & Engineers world wide challenging the official 911 investigation

Doctors in construction and chemical engineering challenging the official fake story of
the twin towers collapse. They telling the world, the terror attacks was a inside gov job.  




\



yep ,for those that follows the mainstream official institutions ,they are all brainwashed ,
telling them that talibans in caves operation , took down 3 buildings with 2 planes.  
and the massive sheepeople follows blindly the official narrative..


NASA moon landings were also fake, look at the topic in question in this forum ,the entire mainstream scientific institutions lied to you about the moon manned landing.. there is plenty of evidence that confirm it was fake.. and even russian government top space program director
questioned nasa official narrative..

Russia Says It Will 'Verify' Whether The US Moon Landings Ever Really Happened

https://www.sciencealert.com/russia-says-it-will-verify-whether-the-moon-landings-ever-really-happened


Now where we are ?

in a pandemic ,that world wide governments are telling you , is not possible to live without many vaccines shots per year?

The world concensus of the anglo western scientist institutions was that , it was a virus from a bat ,fom wuhan.. but as soon trump is removed from power , (after dem cheat the elections) suddenly the theory is that it was a "chinese lab accident".  China response is that it was a US military from fort detrick bio labs ,accident ,who travel to wuhan olympics ,who passed the virus to  china.

The Truth , you will never find it , in mainstream funded $$$ international institutions by the super powerful and corrupt. weather they are political institutions or scientific institutions or man made religions.

All world major religions and major institutions ,are controlled one way or another ,either because of corruption or because their hands are tied. Imagine the backslash ,the scandal to any christian religion ,if their top leaders says , the bible have mistakes ,and that they should avoid the old testament , that it was a mistake in including abrahamic teachings of the torah with jesus new testament.  

it could spell the end of all world major religions instituions . and people seek to find the truth independently by themselves.  This is because christianity main book ,the first half is based on jewish scriptures.. and islam even more.  

The Truth can only be found , if you do independent research on your own , by researching the other side of any story and connect the dots. And that will show you the most likely thing that is the truth.

World history is being re-written by the most rich and powerful. They are at was with the historical christianity /ideology of jesus. and at war with the truth, to keep societies dumb and very dependent on their governments for anything , even to live. what most likely seems /looks pretty much is happening , is the start of a world war 3 with biological like weapons. and not a natural man made pandemic from bats.. and the reason for this attack is for taking down the enemies of the anglo west , like china and russia. and for depopulation purposes too . is easier to control society if the middle and poor working class are demoralized and weakened their economical situation ,what they doing with the endless lockdowns. and also easier to control society if the government controls their health.
and their religion and their money.

a prosperous and rich and independent ,and motivated united working class society that can strongly oppose their totalitarian governments is the last thing the super powers wants.

Vann7 wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:I'm not sure that Jewish persons was the first to practice human sacrifices.

Moloch, also spelled Molech, a Canaanite deity associated in biblical sources with the practice of child sacrifice. The name derives from combining the consonants of the Hebrew melech (“king”) with the vowels of boshet (“shame”), the latter often being used in the Old Testament as a variant name for the popular god Baal (“Lord”).

In the Hebrew Bible, Moloch is presented as a foreign deity who was at times illegitimately given a place in Israel’s worship as a result of the syncretistic policies of certain apostate kings.

The laws given to Moses by God expressly forbade the Jews to do what was done in Egypt or in Canaan. “You shall not give any of your children to devote them by fire to Moloch, and so profane the name of your God” (Leviticus 18:21).

Yet kings such as Ahaz (2 Kings 16:3) and Manasseh (2 Kings 21:6), having been influenced by the Assyrians, are reported to have worshipped Moloch at the hilled site of Topheth, outside the walls of Jerusalem.

This site flourished under Manasseh’s son King Amon but was destroyed during the reign of Josiah, the reformer. “And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom, that no one might burn his son or his daughter as an offering to Moloch” (2 Kings 23:10).

The best advice you could ever get , is..

Don't follow blindly everything your mainstream institutions tells you is the truth.
weather is mainstream media , or mainstream government policies , or mainstream scientific institutions , or main stream pharma and health industry , or mainstream historians , they all
are controlled one way or another by those in power or by big money and will want to keep all society heavily ignorant about certain subjects ,that they feel "is not proper for you to know".

So how can ever you learn ,if the facts are hidden from you?  by having the correct information , or at least the one that most likely appears to be the correct one , after major independent research from your part , after you see both sides or more of any story.

examples of what world governments are hidding from you.

Your will never get the fact from putin's controlled Russia about islam and jews very dark past ,
for fear that society will rebel against them  .  like for example in caucasus russia , many times womens in muslim republics are raped with the full participation of both families , of the daughter family and the terrorist family too.      RT.com have very slightly touched the subject , but it does still today happen.

Neither no government in Russia will ever tell or help you remember the dark history and negative role of jews in the  russian empire..  The anti semitism , of better say the lack of trust in jews , was already popular in all europe and russia too , for their ritual sacrifices of christians children of some hard core jewish sects . The it was jews who killed 2 times , 2 tzars in russia. alexander and nicholais 2 was killed by extreme jewish sects.  Whenever the western intel agencies wants to attack Russia ,they recruit either hard core jews , or radical muslim to do the job because of their historical anti christian and anti russian past.  

if you see an evil man genuinely praising something ,you better stay away from that.  don't you think?

Netanyahu: Evangelical Christians are Israel’s best friends

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-evangelical-christians-are-israels-best-friends/


This is the guy that with one hand he shakes the hand of evangelical christians, which are the main supportive force in US for israel wars, and with that same hand , he shakes the hand of Alqaeda terror groups working in syria.  Neither zionism , neither islam promote peace , they are war loving
/power grabbing ideologies. and so the old testament/torah/jewish prophets too.

What big corporate anglo mainstream media is not telling you , that US military and NATO -israel allies ,was really doing in Syria , with full complicity of all evangelicals/mormons politicians in the government.

and alliance of the anglo democratic west , with NATO and israel partners With world worse terror organizations Alqaeda and ISIS , to take down Syria .

This is how your mainstream media and mainstream politicians deceive you about the syrian war.




And here an example of the explosive evidence ,that world mainstream scientific institutions , are not telling you ,  not even reported under Putin's Russia. The main theory is the corrupt president of Russia putin ,helped to cover this , for a big $$$ loan of the west banking institutions.


3,441 Independent Architects & Engineers world wide challenging the official 911 investigation

Doctors in construction and chemical engineering challenging the official fake story of
the twin towers collapse. They telling the world, the terror attacks was a inside gov job.  




\



yep ,for those that follows the mainstream official institutions ,they are all brainwashed ,
telling them that talibans in caves operation , took down 3 buildings with 2 planes.  
and the massive sheepeople follows blindly the official narrative..


NASA moon landings were also fake, look at the topic in question in this forum ,the entire mainstream scientific institutions lied to you about the moon manned landing.. there is plenty of evidence that confirm it was fake.. and even russian government top space program director
questioned nasa official narrative..

Russia Says It Will 'Verify' Whether The US Moon Landings Ever Really Happened

https://www.sciencealert.com/russia-says-it-will-verify-whether-the-moon-landings-ever-really-happened


Now where we are ?

in a pandemic ,that world wide governments are telling you , is not possible to live without many vaccines shots per year?

The world concensus of the anglo western scientist institutions was that , it was a virus from a bat ,fom wuhan.. but as soon trump is removed from power , (after dem cheat the elections) suddenly the theory is that it was a "chinese lab accident".  China response is that it was a US military from fort detrick bio labs ,accident ,who travel to wuhan olympics ,who passed the virus to  china.

The Truth , you will never find it , in mainstream funded $$$ international institutions by the super powerful and corrupt. weather they are political institutions or scientific institutions or man made religions.

All world major religions and major institutions ,are controlled one way or another ,either because of corruption or because their hands are tied. Imagine the backslash ,the scandal to any christian religion ,if their top leaders says , the bible have mistakes ,and that they should avoid the old testament , that it was a mistake in including abrahamic teachings of the torah with jesus new testament.  

it could spell the end of all world major religions instituions . and people seek to find the truth independently by themselves.  This is because christianity main book ,the first half is based on jewish scriptures.. and islam even more.  

The Truth can only be found , if you do independent research on your own , by researching the other side of any story and connect the dots. And that will show you the most likely thing that is the truth.

World history is being re-written by the most rich and powerful. They are at was with the historical christianity /ideology of jesus. and at war with the truth, to keep societies dumb and very dependent on their governments for anything , even to live.  what most likely seems /looks pretty much is happening , is the start of a world war 3 with biological like weapons.  and not a natural man made pandemic from bats.. and the reason for this attack is for taking down the enemies of the anglo west , like china and russia. and for depopulation purposes too . is easier to control society if the middle and poor working class are demoralized and weakened their economical situation ,what they doing with the endless lockdowns. and also easier to control society if the government controls their health.
and their religion and their money.

a prosperous and rich and independent ,and motivated united working class society that can strongly oppose their totalitarian governments is the last thing the super powers wants.

usually don't read this site but say this about 9/11.  I usually don't believe in the conspiracy theories of 9/11 but this is pretty convincing:

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1341980/

This should have millions of views:





What happened to the crews on 9/11:

https://911passengers.blogspot.com/

Vann7 wrote:

gc3762 wrote:Was Jesus a Jew? Of course, Jesus was a Jew. He was born of a Jewish mother, in Galilee, a Jewish part of the world. All of his friends, associates, colleagues, disciples, all of them were Jews. He regularly worshipped in Jewish communal worship, what we call synagogues. He preached from Jewish text, from the Bible. He celebrated the Jewish festivals. He went on pilgrimage to the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem where he was under the authority of priests.... He lived, was born, lived, died, taught as a Jew. This is obvious to any casual reader of the gospel text. What's striking is not so much that he was a Jew but that the gospels make no pretense that he wasn't. The gospels have no sense yet that Jesus was anything other than a Jew. The gospels don't even have a sense that he came to found a new religion, an idea completely foreign to all the gospel text, and completely foreign to Paul. That is an idea which comes about only later. So, to say that he was a Jew is saying a truism, is simply stating an idea that is so obvious on the face of it, one wonders it even needs to be said. But, of course, it does need to be said because we all know what happens later in the story, where it turns out that Christianity becomes something other than Judaism and as a result, Jesus in retrospect is seen not as a Jew, but as something else, as a founder of Christianity. But, of course, he was a Jew.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/bornliveddied.html

Who you are , is not defined , by the place you are born. Neither by the religion that used to practice your parents..  There are christians , that were born from atheist parents..  there are christians ,that were born from jewish parents.


You put labels on jesus ,that he never claimed to be. Mention when did jesus claimed to be a jew ?
Jesus not even believed in politics or national flags. if jesus was a jew as you claim ,then it was a rebel ,that destroyed the religion , by creating a new one. Since childhoold Jesus contradict the jewish teachings, rebelled against it..  alcohol was prohibit in the jewish religon ,yet the mother of jesus and their invitees , drink wine..  

And Just because you or some people called him Rabbi , does not means he was one.
Jesus was not a teacher , he was God. Teacher is someone with limited knowledge ,that learn from others.. Jesus in the other hand was self aware , self concious ,of being GOD . he did not learned anything he was God , and god does not learn , he is the knowledge ,from where everything comes.
some jews called him a demon ,that does not means they were right.  so nice try , trying to deny
Jesus own claims.. he claimed to be God and he reversed jews teachings and if he truly believe in judaism teachings, he will be sponsoring moses and their prophets.. but jesus claimed to be higher than moses and abraham..   and equally himself to GOD..

mathew 14:9  

"Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father."

So just accept , you are wrong . jesus was not a "Teacher of jewish scriptures" ,  thats a total lie..
majority of jesus teachings are galaxies away different to what jews religious authorities or muslim leaders believe.

not a "jewish scriptures teacher" , what jesus tells people is not anywhere in the judaism .

John 14:6

Jesus told.. “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”…


Not a jew , neither  abraham , or moses ever spoke like this..


@Cowboy's daughter

you can show me , mountains of songs of worship , of zionist christians.. but to be a christian,
beauty and love is not enough , you need to be intelligent too  and wise.  i know of many evangelicals christians that their lives have been ruined by this fake christian religions ,that worship more the bible and israel ,than jesus.  there are christian cults ,that are dangerous for people ,for the nonsense infiltrated in their religion.. one is evangelicals , mormoms for example ,this are fake christians , almost hypocrites at times. that talk about God love , jesus love , but then go a praise israel bombs to kill palestians women and children..  it is sad , entire generations of christians , being so brainwashed by all this infiltrated political cult of zionism.

This might sound rude , but it will be better you wake up . jews are not your friends as they claim to be. jews television , is the only one in the world ,that mock jesus crucifiction and teach them to disrespect christian faith right from the very start..

and the above troll ,that deny jesus claimed to be God , and try to label him as just " a teacher of jewish scriptures" is not a christian ,but a troll, and you should not be liking his propaganda .  
most jews hates christians.. this is what all this hypocrites will not tell you . and this is why hollywood is at war with christianity.  They advertise to be "great friends" of christians ,yet they allow in their television , to compare jesus as a monkey . their stand up comedians jokes about the killing
of jesus too..  Jews are not your friends.. as they claim.. they are opportunistics hypocrites that pretend they care about christians..but they do it for political advantage, but israel is the main enemy of the christian faith.. not happy with conspiring to the killing of jesus , they are the main forces attacking christian faith ,mocking it , in the world..  their documentaries about christianity, they are all 100% to discredit jesus.. as a magician impostor , or as a human that married a prostitute magdalene , or now as just a "Teacher of jews scriptures"    

is not me that you need to argue.. i don't reject , that jesus claimed to be God. your zionist friend does. your jewish friends , those are the ones you need to educate about what jesus told , who he really was.  And ask them ,why they hate christians so much.. to be honest about it.

educating brainwashed christians.. about what jews believe about christian faith.

jesus was a monkey according to israel media




The only television in the world , that openly make fun about christians and jesus.

is the israeli jews tv.




Even jewish comedians recognize they killed jesus..  here is one making fun of the killing of jesus.




@cowboy girl..

this is why i was saying ,the problem the world face , is that people take blindly everything their major institutions tell them,for granted without verifying, you can't do that.. the world big corporate media and banking industry is controlled by satanic jews , who hate christians and is pushing to destroy all christians religions except those they can heavily influence ,like evangelicals and mormons.  This is why jews created the liberal movement and feminism.  is to completely reverse
the christian values on society , for anti christians ones..



. and they can influence world politics , world science and world institutions.  you will never hear anywhere , why jews were kicked from all nations in the world and why they need their own state.
if you are kicked one time or two or three.. then it might mean nothing , but if jews were kicked from all european countries ,and several times,, then maybe there is something history is not telling about jews culture and religion and the world media is not allowing anyone to discuss..  satanism , sacrifices of christians children, the drinking of human blood in their rituals are just a few of the scandals you will find in the jewish culture and traditions. even the bible speak about this jews satanic traditions.. when moses came from the mount , found jews worshiping the moloc bull god and offering human sacrifices.


so jews people were the first ones to practice human sacrifices ..
some jews sect worshipped this GOD.

Moloch


human sacrifices, was part of jewish old traditions , the abraham story in old testament is a perfect example how biblical jews considered acceptable the sacrificing your child if they heard "voices" of "a god" , telling them to do it.  

This is not saying all jews are equal , there are good people in all religions , usually people better than the religions they follow ,but you can't ignore this.. before jews believed in one God ,they believed in many Gods earlier and practiced human sacrifices.
and they had traditions to stone womens prostitutes to death. Jesus saved one from this.  all this barbaric middle east arabs culture of repression against womens , was inspired by abrahamic culture of jews.. alchohol prohibition and pork , too..  mutilation of genitals, this is a jewish religion tradition.
was also copied by muslim from jews... christianity is the only middle east religion that distanced
from the crazy nut traditions of jews and their prophets . no wonder why jews hate jesus..
Jesus called all this fake God worshippers, that downplayed his authority , the synagogue of satan.

even jews don't hide... the satanic nature of zionism jews.
What every evangelical christian should know about their zionist /jewish friends..
what many of them really believe. All this human sacrifices traditions of jews , continues
in modern times , too.

oprah winfield spoke about this sinagogue of satan that jesus spoke about..
this was long time ago ,when american media was still free and not controlled by jews  

Satanic Ritual Baby Sacrifice on Oprah Winfrey, Cannibalism, Pedophilia



What is the point of all this? that should should not blindly follow all your authorities story telling and official institutions today , most if not all are  corrupt and controlled by someone else, weather is governments ,scientific institutions , federal institutions , health industry or major main religions too..  The real world is very different ,that the major mainstream narrative claims.
evangelical faith is fake christianity, it doesn't means , that there aren't good christians in evangelical church ,but that their understanding of jesus christianity will be wrong.  if you want to follow jesus messages and teachings , then follows what he claims.. not what someone prophet or religion says


independent thinkers , people that do their own investigation and research will find the truth.
those that follow the major government institutions wave , major religious institutions , major scientific world institutions,major media institutions, major health institutions will be guided to
failure , because they all wants to control society and not make them free.  [b]From North Korea ,to North America, they all want to control society and keep their unfair and corrupt system for the super rich ,going for ever, even if that means censoring the information you receive and or hiding the truth  from you .

No government , not even puppet putin president of russia ,will tell you jews are either power /satan worshippers . and that islam prophet was a terrorist ,head chopper and pedophile, only christianity as directly taught by jesus promotes freedom ,independence of society and peace.

I have no idea what the future holds.  But the way the West and the US in particular are bullying Russia could lead to their destruction.  There are many people who believe the Bible prophecies about the destruction of the US by Russia.  

https://jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/Nuclear%20War/babylon_destroyed.htm

Derek Prince, I think, was a great British Bible Teacher. He was born in India, served in WW2.


Derek Prince

Psalm 127:1–2
Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD guards the city, the watchman keeps awake in vain. It is vain for you to rise up early, to retire late, to eat the bread of painful labors; for He gives to His beloved even in his sleep. NASB
That pictures the only way to true security and success. It’s relying on the Lord’s oversight, the Lord’s blessing, the Lord’s provision. We can work hard, we can build, we can stay awake, we can lose sleep and be so busy with all that we are seeking to accomplish and put all our effort into it, but without the Lord’s blessing it will come to nothing. There is no security outside of God, His blessing and His provision.
But if we are laboring in the blessing and the provision, in the will, of the Lord then there’s that sweet and beautiful promise, “He gives to His beloved even in his sleep.” When you’ve done what God requires you to do, you can lie down and sleep, you can relax. You don’t have to stay awake and worry, because God gives even while you’re asleep. The results of your labors will be apportioned to you.
You see, ultimately we don’t depend on our own effort, we depend on God’s faithfulness, and God’s faithfulness is committed to reward that which we do in His will. If we build in the will of God, the house will stand. If we watch in the will of God, the city will be secure. Security is found only in God.


Wikipedia article, his Biography in book form, can be found online for free.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Prince

I follow this on Fb.

Matt Prater is at New Hope Church Brisbane.

18h · Brisbane, QLD, Australia ·

We saw 8 people come to Christ today! I lead 3 Bible studies at a detention centre in Pinkenba. Some of their stories broke my heart! I met men from Uganda, Sudan, Afghanistan, Samoa, Tonga, Myanmar, NZ, UK, Iran, Solomon Islands & a few others. Please pray for them!

https://newhopebrisbane.com/team/pastor-matt-prater-2-2-2/

I personally do not care about a person's personal religious or political beliefs . For all I care , people could be vegetarian Marxist Muslim Jewish Christian tree huggers !
I understand that some conversions are under duress . In these cases offers of residence or citizenship . It happens in the UK also . I think it pointless or even immoral to subject people to forced conversions . Refugees should be accepted on face value . The only factor , is if they are running from persecution . And if they are peaceful citizens . So I will not pray for them , and nor should you . Instead support them for who they are , as human beings .

nomadski wrote:I personally do not care about a person's personal religious or political beliefs . For all I care , people could be vegetarian Marxist Muslim Jewish Christian tree huggers !
I understand that some conversions are under duress . In these cases offers of residence or citizenship . It happens in the UK also . I think it pointless or even immoral to subject people to forced conversions . Refugees should be accepted on face value . The only factor , is if they are running from persecution . And if they are peaceful citizens . So I will not pray for them , and nor should you . Instead support them for who they are , as human beings .

I agree, there should not be forced conversions. That is not Christianity. religion, yes, Christianity- no. It's the same as if another religion forcing conversions. no difference.

I agree that refugees should be accepted on face value, The only factor, is if they are running from persecution. And if they are peaceful citizens.

I personally don't pray for anyone, unless I feel like God is putting an individual on my heart to pray for. I don't pray for "godless anybody (ethnicity, or religion, or tribe or nation)". I prayed for God to help the Indian people when I watched covid burn through the Country, but that had nothing to do with their religion.

refugees should be supported for who they are, as human beings, I agree.


I pray I am the kind of Christian who, if I see someone beaten, and robbed, and left for half dead in the ditch on the side of the road, that I stop, and help that person even when not of my ethnicity, tribe, or nation, or religion.

My ex husband was an alcoholic, or might say is a recovering alcoholic, if he is not drinking today, and one time I had the thought "If he chooses to drink himself to death, it's his choice. It's between him and God. I don't own anyone.", and I do understand alcoholism is a disease.

I don't "own" persons. Their life is their choice.

I am a Christian, and I believe God saved me, and if anyone wants a list of from what, I can give a long list of from what. So, since I believe that Jesus Christ came to save the world, whosoever will, one individual at a time, I am always happy to share, but if anyone doesn't agree, they are definitely free to disagree.

From the Book of Job

Job Chapter 12,
Amplified Bible

Job Speaks of the Power of God

13“But [only] with Him are [perfect] wisdom and might;

He [alone] has [true] counsel and understanding.

14“Behold, He tears down, and it cannot be rebuilt;

He imprisons a man, and there can be no release.

15“Behold, He restrains the waters, and they dry up;

Again, He sends the waters out, and they overwhelm and devastate the earth.

16“With Him are might and sound wisdom,

The misled and the misleader are His [and in His power].

17“He makes [great and scheming] counselors walk barefoot

And makes fools of judges.

18“He loosens the bond of kings

And binds their loins with a loincloth.

19“He makes priests walk barefoot,

And He overturns men firmly seated and secure.

20“He deprives the trusted ones of speech

And takes away the discernment and discretion of the aged.

21“He pours contempt on princes and nobles

And loosens the belt of the strong [disabling them].

22“He uncovers mysteries [that are difficult to grasp and understand] out of the darkness

And brings black gloom and the shadow of death into light.

23“He makes nations great, and He destroys them;

He enlarges nations, and leads them away [captive].

24“He removes intelligence and understanding from the leaders of the people of the earth

And makes them wander and move blindly in a pathless waste.

25“They grope in darkness without light,

And He makes them stagger like a drunken man.”

Proverbs 19:21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.


devices: 4284
hbXxm Machashabah (makh-ash-aw-baw'); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 4284
1. thought, device
2. thought
3. device, plan, purpose
4. invention


heart: 3820
bl Leb (labe); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 3820
inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding
inner part, midst
midst (of things)
heart (of man)
soul, heart (of man)
mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
conscience
heart (of moral character)
as seat of appetites
as seat of emotions and passions 1a
as seat of courage


counsel: 6098
hc[ `etsah (ay-tsaw'); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 6098
1. counsel, advice, purpose


LORD: 3068
hwhy Y@hovah (yeh-ho-vaw'); Proper Name, Strong #: 3068

Jehovah = "the existing One"
1. the proper name of the one true God
2. unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136


stand: 6965
~wq Quwm (koom); Verb, Strong #: 6965
to rise, arise, stand, rise up, stand up
(Qal)
to arise
to arise (hostile sense)
to arise, become powerful
to arise, come on the scene
to stand 1a
to maintain oneself 1a
to be established, be confirmed 1a
to stand, endure 1a
to be fixed 1a
to be valid 1a
to be proven 1a
to be fulfilled 1a
to persist 1a
to be set, be fixed
(Piel)
to fulfil
to confirm, ratify, establish, impose
(Polel) to raise up
(Hithpael) to raise oneself, rise up
(Hiphil)
to cause to arise, raise
to raise, set up, erect, build
to raise up, bring on the scene
to raise up, rouse, stir up, investigate
to raise up, constitute
to cause to stand, set, station, establish
to make binding
to carry out, give effect to
(Hophal) to be raised up

James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Malachi 3:5
And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in [his] wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger [from his right], and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

Psalms 68:5
A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, [is] God in his holy habitation.

The poem “Oft in the Stilly Night” was a favorite one with all the Wyandots.’ (Scotch Air)
BY THOMAS MOORE


“Oft in the stilly night,

E’er slumber’s chain has bound me,

Fond mem’ry brings the light

Of other days around me:

The late Mrs. Lucy B. Armstrong’s favorite stanza is as follows:

3. Yet when I look above

This mansion thus forsaken

To that where God in love

My friends so dear has taken,

My doubts are quelled,

My fears dispelled;

For faith’s sweet pledge is given

That those so dear

Are hovering near

To welcome me to Heaven.

CHORUS.–Thus oft in the stilly night

E’er slumber’s chain hath bound me

Religion pours her light

Of heavenly joys around me.

Below is the same stanza in the Wyandot language:

3. Yah-rohn-yah’-yeh eh-mah-tih

Noh-mah’-deh sah-yah-kah-quah,

Rah-tsah-yooh-hooh-tah-dih

Nohn-dih-yah yah-teh’-yeh-ah-hah.

Dooh shah-tooh-rah’t tah-yah-rah-nyeh-ohs,

Dih-yah zhooh-tih dah nyeh-ehn-tah-rih

Dah kah’-tooh ah’t ah-roh-mah-nyeh-oh,

Nehn dih tah-kih-oh-yah-gyeh-ah’-tehs.

CHORUS.–Dooh-neh tah-wah’-rah-tah

Tooh-reh-zhah-ih mehn-tsah’-yeh

Yah-reh-weh-zhooh-stih neh

Kweh- ah-yeh-ohs wah-tih ah-stih-eh-quahs.

15

The smiles and tears

Of boyhood’s years,

The words of love then spoken,

The eye that shone,

Now dimmed and gone,

The cheerful heart now broken.

When I remember all

The friends so link’d together,

I’ve seen around me fall

Like leaves in wintry weather,

I feel like one

Who treads alone

Some banquet-hall deserted,

Whose lights are fled,

Whose garlands dead,

And all but be departed.

Thus oft in the stilly night,”

https://wyandotte-nation.org/culture/history/published/provisional-government/