Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

30mm, is this for IFV? If it is then the armament of next gen russ. IFVs is pretty weak.

It would be really cool if the kurganets IFV and armata BMPT variants would be able to use hermes ATGMs.

HERMES is 3.5m long and each missile weighs about 110kgs in its tube, so I rather suspect ground vehicles that need ATGMs will likely have Krisantema or Kornet-EM.

Any ground vehicle with HERMES will likely look a lot like a Grad truck with 40 missile tubes on the back.

30mm, is this for IFV? If it is then the armament of next gen russ. IFVs is pretty weak.

I would say this turret is the standard APC turret... so in terms of current vehicles this will be the BTR-82A turret.

To be honest I am surprised it doesn't have a rear turret mounted 40mm grenade launcher... I thought that was a good touch on the upgraded BMP-2s.

September 18, 2013. Channel "1 TV". Russia. Vladimir Putin's working visit to Izhevsk.



At 3:58 on the video above is a GSh-23-6 gun in an external weapon mount.





The American Vulcan M163 was devastating in Vietnam as an anti ambush weapon and the GSh-23-6 should be even more formidable because although it has a lower muzzle velocity it fires a much heavier projectile with a much heavier HE payload at more than double the rate of fire of the American 20mm weapon. The GSh-23-6 can fire at up to 12,000 rpm, though obviously it would be used in very short bursts to deliver shotgun like blasts of HE shells to a target area... you would not be able to evade this weapon as the spread of shells would just make it impossible.

For an APC or IFV it would not be a great choice as the muzzle velocity is low and the rate of fire is very high but the effective range will not be huge.

To support infantry it would be OK with a burst of fire making up for the reduced power of each round compared to the 30 x 165mm guns on the BMPs, and the more compact ammo allowing more ammo to be carried. Against soft targets that would otherwise be engaged with HMG fire it would be ideal and against surprise targets or to stifle an ambush it would be ideal.

As an IFV weapon it lacks the armour penetration potential needed to engage enemy IFVs.

Therefore this gun would be useful on a BMPT or an APC or light scout or escort vehicle.

in many ways it is a very very high rate of fire auto grenade launcher with a flatter trajectory and probably greater effective range.

Actually now that I look at the still frame I posted these guns are mounted on unmanned land vehicles... wow that would be powerful ground support capacity.

The fact that they are considering them for use on unmanned land vehicles suggests they might be used on other platforms too.

Certainly the 23 x 115mm shell is a compact useful round with a good payload but without a lot of the recoil of larger rounds.

This is a self powered gun that winds up to its max rate of fire rapidly using gas power rather than the western Vulcan which has an external electric power source.

GarryB wrote:September 18, 2013. Channel "1 TV". Russia. Vladimir Putin's working visit to Izhevsk.



At 3:58 on the video above is a GSh-23-6 gun in an external weapon mount.





The American Vulcan M163 was devastating in Vietnam as an anti ambush weapon and the GSh-23-6 should be even more formidable because although it has a lower muzzle velocity it fires a much heavier projectile with a much heavier HE payload at more than double the rate of fire of the American 20mm weapon. The GSh-23-6 can fire at up to 12,000 rpm, though obviously it would be used in very short bursts to deliver shotgun like blasts of HE shells to a target area... you would not be able to evade this weapon as the spread of shells would just make it impossible.

For an APC or IFV it would not be a great choice as the muzzle velocity is low and the rate of fire is very high but the effective range will not be huge.

To support infantry it would be OK with a burst of fire making up for the reduced power of each round compared to the 30 x 165mm guns on the BMPs, and the more compact ammo allowing more ammo to be carried. Against soft targets that would otherwise be engaged with HMG fire it would be ideal and against surprise targets or to stifle an ambush it would be ideal.

As an IFV weapon it lacks the armour penetration potential needed to engage enemy IFVs.

Therefore this gun would be useful on a BMPT or an APC or light scout or escort vehicle.

in many ways it is a very very high rate of fire auto grenade launcher with a flatter trajectory and probably greater effective range.

I like this idea to place GSh-23-6 on unmaned fighting vehicle (robot). It is great for urban environment as well as in hills because of light weight, small dimensions, big fire power and no soldiers exposed to enemy.

This is an important find regarding the use of the GSh-23-6 on ground vehicles.

First, this is a small unmanned vehicle, but even with limited ammo space this weapon is being considered.

Second, the GSh-23-6 is apparently reliable enough to not only be used on a vehicle operating in less than desirable environments, the vehicle itself is unmanned, without the immediate presence of a ground crew to service the weapon in case of mechanical malfunction.


This gives me hope for the Armata BMPT.

The main problem with the GSh-23-6 was explosive gas build up that often led to explosions on aircraft (ie it is carried by the Su-24 and the Mig-31).

The Mig-27 carries the heavier GSh-30-6.

In terms of reliability the GSh-23-6 is close to ideal... its self powered so gas pressure is used to accelerate and spin the barrels... if any round fails or hang fires then it will by cycled through and ejected just through the momentum of the weapons feed mechanism.

In terms of weight and size it is a very small very light very compact weapon.

In terms of commonality the current model Hinds including the new build Mi-35s with the chin mounted twin barrel 23mm guns use the same ammo.

The KPV is a standard HMG that uses a related round (the 23 x 115mm is basically the 14.5 x 114mm round with the 23mm HE round of the 23 x 152mm round fired by the ZSU-23-4 and ZU-23 cannon), and the KPVB model may be a 14.5mm HMG recalibred to 23mm calibre with the same feed mechanism, the same everything except barrel.

And I agree with Zivo... the armament of the armata BMPT with a 40mm Balkan AGL, a 120mm rifled gun mortar, and a 23mm GSh-23-6 gatling plus perhaps coaxial mg would be an exciting armament.

Spoted at Nizhni-Tagil where the exhibition will happen in a couple of days.
Possibly Boomerang.

The wheels are identical to the French VCBI.

It ain't anything Russian for sure...unless its the VCBI with the Bachka turret.

Burevestnik video is referring to the following system, based on a version of the Kurganets-25 chassis, as a 57 mm antiaircraft gun.

By the way, here's the link for the video.

http://vk.com/video6697598_164898848?hash=78b6095380db154b

The following pictures show some of the details and heritage of the system. The unmanned turret is highlighted.

That's an interesting magazine configuration.

The optics look like the come directly from Palma... which suggests it might be a low cost anti aircraft vehicle perhaps using laser guided shells to deal with targets like UCAVs, or enemy aircraft or incoming missiles.

http://s7.uploads.ru/FKi6m.jpg

That naked Kamaz 4x4 has been fitted out it seems.

Thank you. What is the difference between this vehicle and VPK-3927 "Volk" vehicle (apart from being made by different companies, of course)?

On a different note, I'm very intrigued about that 57 mm weapon station picture. Anyone want to guess the number of rounds it might carry?  I think, if we assume it carries 4 ammo drums(or 2 drums with two rows of rounds), something about 192 rounds is possible. Would be glad to hear another opinion on this matter

It is the smaller member of the Typhoon family, so it is a dedicated MRAP (compared to Volk I think) and is overall much larger. Not a lot of details, so IDK how standardized the chassis is with the 6x6 vehicle.

TR1 wrote:It is the smaller member of the Typhoon family, so it is a dedicated MRAP (compared to Volk I think) and is overall much larger. Not a lot of details, so IDK how standardized the chassis is with the 6x6 vehicle.

Oh, I see. But correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't "Volk" supposed to have a decent mine protection as well? And also 6x6 version?
Also, those 6x6 typhoon trucks we saw makes me think, the only common thing between 6x6 typhoon and 4x4 typhoon is the name (and even that is co-incidental). But again, I could be wrong.

I know it isn't boomerang, but here's the official page for the ATOM BTR with the 57mm autocannon.

http://uralvagonzavod.com/products/special_products/56/

Some specs

CHASSIS
Dimensions (length / high/ width) 8.2 m / 3 m / 2.5 m
Crew 11 (3+8 )
Combat weight up to 32 t (depending on required protection level and armour plating)
Embarking/disembarking 1 rear ramp, 4 roof hatches

WEAPON STATION
Effective firing range 6 km
Rate of fire 120-140rds/min
Laying angles - Elevation -8°... +70°
Laying angles - Traverse 360°
Time required for change of ammunition type 1...3 sec
Ammunition, main total 180...200 rounds
Ready-to-fire rounds 80...100 rounds

MOBILITY
RENAUL Thigh-power engine (output 600 hp.)
Max speed up to 100 km/h
Range, main fuel supply 750 km
Automatic gearbox
Transmission with independent suspension
Amphibious kit

Zivo wrote:I know it isn't boomerang, but here's the official page for the ATOM BTR with the 57mm autocannon.

http://uralvagonzavod.com/products/special_products/56/

Some specs

CHASSIS
Dimensions (length / high/ width) 8.2 m / 3 m / 2.5 m
Crew 11 (3+8 )
Combat weight up to 32 t (depending on required protection level and armour plating)
Embarking/disembarking 1 rear ramp, 4 roof hatches

WEAPON STATION
Effective firing range 6 km
Rate of fire 120-140rds/min
Laying angles - Elevation -8°... +70°
Laying angles - Traverse 360°
Time required for change of ammunition type 1...3 sec
Ammunition, main total 180...200 rounds
Ready-to-fire rounds 80...100 rounds

MOBILITY
RENAUL Thigh-power engine (output 600 hp.)
Max speed up to 100 km/h
Range, main fuel supply 750 km
Automatic gearbox
Transmission with independent suspension
Amphibious kit

Thank you very much, Zivo   Bloody hell, then calculating it's ammo capacity, I wasn't that far from truth, actually   (I predicted 192 rounds).

http://kamaz.ru/photos/news/2013/11/20131128-10.jpg

Another pic of the new KAMAZ.

What can I say looking at this picture? 
Not much. Finish is like on civilian car. Lada should take it as example. 
I expect highest quality in all aspects. KAMAZ can really create amazing vehicles these days and I'm not only talking about military!

Zivo wrote:I know it isn't boomerang, but here's the official page for the ATOM BTR with the 57mm autocannon.

http://uralvagonzavod.com/products/special_products/56/

Some specs

CHASSIS
Dimensions (length / high/ width) 8.2 m / 3 m / 2.5 m
Crew 11 (3+8 )
Combat weight up to 32 t (depending on required protection level and armour plating)
Embarking/disembarking 1 rear ramp, 4 roof hatches

WEAPON STATION
Effective firing range 6 km
Rate of fire 120-140rds/min
Laying angles - Elevation -8°... +70°
Laying angles - Traverse 360°
Time required for change of ammunition type 1...3 sec
Ammunition, main total 180...200 rounds
Ready-to-fire rounds 80...100 rounds

MOBILITY
RENAUL Thigh-power engine (output 600 hp.)
Max speed up to 100 km/h
Range, main fuel supply 750 km
Automatic gearbox
Transmission with independent suspension
Amphibious kit

I hope it's available for NATO countries. It would be amazing to see it being exported to the west. I hope my country would actually buy it as wheeled IFV would be more wise than tracked in environment. Square battle taxis are reaching their life time and don't expect them to be any support to infantry as M113 can be shredded to bits by one burst of KPVT.

My Nephew was a commander of a LAV III unit and he said it was great fun with the thermals and stabilised 25mm cannon... I can imagine what he would think about a 57mm gun...  

More:

It looks great as Tigr. Cant wait to see battle station on top or by its side like in Tango and Cash movie  (would go the bank immediately and bought it)