alexZam wrote:Height reference...
You can almost stand straight inside, well not me but someone with 1.7m could, probably.
alexZam wrote:Height reference...
Strizh wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:Strizh wrote:Werewolf wrote:Strizh wrote:^Great again a system which «Не имеющий аналогов в мире» and will work as good as smoke screens against modern ATGMs...
What a crap, promised an APS system build a smoke screen launcher
Well, such a system will break guidance of any IIR/IR guided missile, but Laser Beam riders are still a threat and they easily to manufactor and much cheaper, i hope they will change that later, shouldn't be hard to develop APS vertical launchers right where the vertical smoke grenade launchers are with the T-80#UM1 Arena Radar pointing upwards, like it was seen on T-15 (which pointed forward) it should actually cover enough top hemisphere to actually deal with top attack weapons.
I seriously can't understand why they didn't implement an anti top attack APS system. And no the radars on the T15 are to low for top attack weapons, I've watched some videos and the incoming missiles are almost vertical - 80°.
A huge disappointment
How are they Low?
See how the Trophy is implemented. It isn't low at all, it is actually prepositionned for top attack.
The radar has a too low angle for recognizing top attack missiles:
Zivo wrote:Strizh wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:Strizh wrote:Werewolf wrote:Strizh wrote:^Great again a system which «Не имеющий аналогов в мире» and will work as good as smoke screens against modern ATGMs...
What a crap, promised an APS system build a smoke screen launcher
Well, such a system will break guidance of any IIR/IR guided missile, but Laser Beam riders are still a threat and they easily to manufactor and much cheaper, i hope they will change that later, shouldn't be hard to develop APS vertical launchers right where the vertical smoke grenade launchers are with the T-80#UM1 Arena Radar pointing upwards, like it was seen on T-15 (which pointed forward) it should actually cover enough top hemisphere to actually deal with top attack weapons.
I seriously can't understand why they didn't implement an anti top attack APS system. And no the radars on the T15 are to low for top attack weapons, I've watched some videos and the incoming missiles are almost vertical - 80°.
A huge disappointment
How are they Low?
See how the Trophy is implemented. It isn't low at all, it is actually prepositionned for top attack.
The radar has a too low angle for recognizing top attack missiles:
"Top attack" @ 00:45.
Nice javelin video.. its important to notice that the TV camera.. will not work in a heavy
counter electronics environment ,the operator of the javelin will see nothing on tv. so it will be impossible for the operator to hit anything if the signals are jammed.. the missile will simply fly over the tank as if the operator turned off the control remote. Cool and the tank will be 100% unharmed. but it might fall in civilian house near.. so the ideal way will be a mix of counter electronic and interception away-ofthe-tank ,from a safe distance and away of coalition path.
Apache Hellfires missiles in the other hand have semi active laser and active homing guidance
in such cases smoke and electromagnetic pulse and decoys can blind the missile ,before APS interception. This means that if the system works well ,the armata will not be at risk of direct lethal hit.. fortunately Armata can target helicopters like apache before they are at their firing range which is 8km. A pantsir near will shut down an apache 20km away. or a manpand.
Werewolf wrote:
The missile, travelling at the relatively slow speed of between 150 meters and 200 meters per second, can hit targets up to 7.5km away.
Vann7 wrote:If it is wired ,it cannot be jammed , and the missile can be fired behind a rock so the operator
is safe.. don't need line of sight . its confusing the wiki info because there are many versions..
in any case it can be intercepted by any aps with top attack defense.. and apparently the Spike
missile speed is slow and travel a very predictable path.. Smoke grenade and heat decoys can trick the missile and the wire shuld leave a major trace of the location is launched.. but not sure
how can a missile be wired for 3k-5km.. thats looks insane .. in any case the more complex is the missile electronic the more vulnerable is to Electromagnetic Pulse ,if you know were is the operator hiding, and emp charge will neutralize the control remote..also Pantsirs will have a field day with spike.. and tank with APS protection too.. Still is quite deadly weapon without the modern defense capabilities.. of previous tanks.
Update here the speed of spike..
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/spike.htm
The missile, travelling at the relatively slow speed of between 150 meters and 200 meters per second, can hit targets up to 7.5km away.
It have a similar speed of an RPG-7... which terminal speed is 295 meters per second. so is not hard to intercept missile..is like any other Rpg-7 interception but with high angle of attack. it will be good target practice for a pantsir gun, but also for any APS . Javeline missiles in the other hand are quite fast but still can be intercepted. The more nasty one are hellfire
lazer guided , fast ,with active home seeker.. still can be intercepted if the APS see it..
In any case if it is true that Afganistan APS in armata can intercept hypersonic missiles..
and Sabot rounds , then in theory nothing can stop the active defense.. at least in single projectile attacks.
KoTeMoRe wrote:Strizh wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:Strizh wrote:Werewolf wrote:Strizh wrote:^Great again a system which «Не имеющий аналогов в мире» and will work as good as smoke screens against modern ATGMs...
What a crap, promised an APS system build a smoke screen launcher
Well, such a system will break guidance of any IIR/IR guided missile, but Laser Beam riders are still a threat and they easily to manufactor and much cheaper, i hope they will change that later, shouldn't be hard to develop APS vertical launchers right where the vertical smoke grenade launchers are with the T-80#UM1 Arena Radar pointing upwards, like it was seen on T-15 (which pointed forward) it should actually cover enough top hemisphere to actually deal with top attack weapons.
I seriously can't understand why they didn't implement an anti top attack APS system. And no the radars on the T15 are to low for top attack weapons, I've watched some videos and the incoming missiles are almost vertical - 80°.
A huge disappointment
How are they Low?
See how the Trophy is implemented. It isn't low at all, it is actually prepositionned for top attack.
The radar has a too low angle for recognizing top attack missiles:
Do actually understand that top attack missiles need to be fired at some point? How do you think the Merkava does it to point the tank vs the source of fire? It's called a radar...
Zivo wrote:Strizh wrote:KoTeMoRe wrote:Strizh wrote:Werewolf wrote:Strizh wrote:^Great again a system which «Не имеющий аналогов в мире» and will work as good as smoke screens against modern ATGMs...
What a crap, promised an APS system build a smoke screen launcher
Well, such a system will break guidance of any IIR/IR guided missile, but Laser Beam riders are still a threat and they easily to manufactor and much cheaper, i hope they will change that later, shouldn't be hard to develop APS vertical launchers right where the vertical smoke grenade launchers are with the T-80#UM1 Arena Radar pointing upwards, like it was seen on T-15 (which pointed forward) it should actually cover enough top hemisphere to actually deal with top attack weapons.
I seriously can't understand why they didn't implement an anti top attack APS system. And no the radars on the T15 are to low for top attack weapons, I've watched some videos and the incoming missiles are almost vertical - 80°.
A huge disappointment
How are they Low?
See how the Trophy is implemented. It isn't low at all, it is actually prepositionned for top attack.
The radar has a too low angle for recognizing top attack missiles:
"Top attack" @ 00:45.
medo wrote:The most modern tanks will be protected with most modern air defense. Those top attack ATGMs like Spike and Javelin fly high and slow and are easy targets for air defense. Also modern battlefield surveillance radars will easily locate the fire position of ATGMs and bring artillery fire or Tos fire on their position, not to say fire from those tanks and IFVs.
Well I really doubt that air defense will be effective against ATGM teams. Not today and not in Conventional all out war. ATGM systems are cheap compared to modern tanks or air defense. There will always be attrition. I would rather trust APS systems than shorad.medo wrote:The most modern tanks will be protected with most modern air defense. Those top attack ATGMs like Spike and Javelin fly high and slow and are easy targets for air defense. Also modern battlefield surveillance radars will easily locate the fire position of ATGMs and bring artillery fire or Tos fire on their position, not to say fire from those tanks and IFVs.
Stealthflanker wrote:Well.. looking at those vertically mounted smoke grenade discharger, i'll assume that protection against top attack munition is achieved by softkill means.
Those smoke grenades carry some sort of composition that act as decoy for IR seeker.
Strizh wrote:
Money robbed - smoke grenade launchers sold as soft kill APS.
Stealthflanker wrote:Strizh wrote:
Money robbed - smoke grenade launchers sold as soft kill APS.
God knows what inside those grenades.
Any reason why it can't contain any obscurants ?
Werewolf wrote:
Why are people ignoring the APS casettes angled and implemented in the turret? All vehicles have them T-15,Kurganetz 25 and T-14 (not sure about Boomerang little interest).
Stealthflanker wrote:Strizh wrote:
Money robbed - smoke grenade launchers sold as soft kill APS.
God knows what inside those grenades.
Any reason why it can't contain any obscurants ?
Strizh wrote:
And whole APS system is a big piece of shit! That's it, no need to defend useless crap.
The most important part of the new vehicle family was the APS system and they failed miserably.
Vann7 wrote:Strizh wrote:
And whole APS system is a big piece of shit! That's it, no need to defend useless crap.
The most important part of the new vehicle family was the APS system and they failed miserably.
LOL what a troll , you know nothing how the APS system in armata works.. you not even know
if the products show in victory parade are the final products or just early prototypes ,just for
having something quick early preview of the tanks.. and already you are judging the system
as failure.. lol Go away troll with your Israeli propaganda crap..
We don't even know if your Israeli crap can actually target anything upwards since never have been proved in combat by a Russian top attack missile. How can you pass final judgement on early preview of something ,you don't know absolutely nothing!!! and That website do not
mention how Armata defense works.. the export version of anything the Russian army use is always inferior ,not even India or China get Russia domestic hardware technology for their nation defense.you will never get a state of the art defense of Russia army or any technology of their armed forces,in a shopping catalog online.. What an idiot...you simply knows nothing dude.. Disliking something is one thing because you have doubts.. but claiming you know how Armata defenses works ,and that it fail ,while knowing NOTHING of the tank is Moronic.
Strizh wrote:Vann7 wrote:Strizh wrote:
And whole APS system is a big piece of shit! That's it, no need to defend useless crap.
The most important part of the new vehicle family was the APS system and they failed miserably.
LOL what a troll , you know nothing how the APS system in armata works.. you not even know
if the products show in victory parade are the final products or just early prototypes ,just for
having something quick early preview of the tanks.. and already you are judging the system
as failure.. lol Go away troll with your Israeli propaganda crap..
We don't even know if your Israeli crap can actually target anything upwards since never have been proved in combat by a Russian top attack missile. How can you pass final judgement on early preview of something ,you don't know absolutely nothing!!! and That website do not
mention how Armata defense works.. the export version of anything the Russian army use is always inferior ,not even India or China get Russia domestic hardware technology for their nation defense.you will never get a state of the art defense of Russia army or any technology of their armed forces,in a shopping catalog online.. What an idiot...you simply knows nothing dude.. Disliking something is one thing because you have doubts.. but claiming you know how Armata defenses works ,and that it fail ,while knowing NOTHING of the tank is Moronic.
The tank has:
360° coverage: with tubes + smoke grenade launchers
Top coverage: no tubes + smoke grenade launchers
That means (in any case) that the top is less defended than the sides as on top we lack the tubes.