Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

i would like to see the 6th hull to be completed for the BLS fleet

George1 wrote:i would like to see the 6th hull to be completed for the BLS fleet

Well that ain't happening Russia isn't about to design an engine for one outdated frigate.

Unless Ukraine suddenly decides to supply the engine which isn't happening.

They are better off just looking for a buyer.

George1 wrote:i would like to see the 6th hull to be completed for the BLS fleet

Admiral Grigorovitch is on par with Type 054A in terms of size, displacement, capability. With China and Russia transitioning to Type 054B and Gorshkov, I don't think it makes more sense to build more Admiral Grigorovitch.

Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
38 min
Yantar's Ilya Samarin said they have submitted proposals to the MoD on completing the Admiral Kornilov Project 11356 frigate. The Russian Navy was supposed to receive 6 Project 11356 frigates until Ukraine blocked deliveries of its gas turbine engines.

Isos wrote:Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
38 min
Yantar's Ilya Samarin said they have submitted proposals to the MoD on completing the Admiral Kornilov Project 11356 frigate. The Russian Navy was supposed to receive 6 Project 11356 frigates until Ukraine blocked deliveries of its gas turbine engines.

Jesus Christ, is this one frigate such a big deal?

It's barely an empty hull without superstructure

Just order more Gorshkovs, even with delayed engines it's still faster than this thing

Speaking of which why aren't they ordering more Gorshkovs?

Empty but it would be stupid to scrap it. It is a ship worth around 300 million dollars. That's certainly not nothing.

If they can finish it they better sell it. It is a ship better than 90% of their ships in service. Only Gorshkov, Kiriv and Slava are better.

Gorshkov will be ordered when they finish the first ones they started. Or maybe they are waiting to see the 4x UKSK variant to choose if they order Gorshkov M instead. They have time to wait.

PapaDragon wrote:

Isos wrote:Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
38 min
Yantar's Ilya Samarin said they have submitted proposals to the MoD on completing the Admiral Kornilov Project 11356 frigate. The Russian Navy was supposed to receive 6 Project 11356 frigates until Ukraine blocked deliveries of its gas turbine engines.

Jesus Christ, is this one frigate such a big deal?

It's barely an empty hull without superstructure

Just order more Gorshkovs, even with delayed engines it's still faster than this thing

Speaking of which why aren't they ordering more Gorshkovs?

They ordered another 6 making a total of 10.

IMO if they have an engine and a hull plus it is cost effective, then they should go ahead and finish it. If my memory serves me correctly, the 11356 wasn't much more then the 23080 and less then the 23085 in cost.

franco wrote:IMO if they have an engine and a hull plus it is cost effective, then they should go ahead and finish it. If my memory serves me correctly, the 11356 wasn't much more then the 23080 and less then the 23085 in cost.

The thing is that they don't have the engine

So unless someone swiped one out of the Ukraine I don't see how they can do it

And designing whole engine for a single ship is redundant

Pretty sure those orders are for India.

The 11356 is vastly inferior to the 22350, it makes no sense to order these when you have a better option already available.

unless they think they can modify the 22350 for the 11356, which sure they could by why bother.

They already have several ships with that sort of engine don't they?

Wouldn't it make sense for them to make spare parts and repair kits for existing ships using this engine?

Having a couple of backup engines in case there are problems down the track could be worth while...

Do they ever actually achieve serial production of this sort of propulsion system or do they just make them one at a time... I am not familiar with how they are made.

I would think making an engine and building spare parts for the bits that commonly wear out as well as a few repair kits are different things, but if they are serious then being able to repair these engines themselves for themselves and for export customers using these engines means business for them and less business from the business partners that betrayed them and put them in this situation to start with.

The Russian navy currently has a tiny pool of new ships a large pool of obsolete old ships they only use because they don't have anything better and a couple of frankenstein upgraded old designs... in a sense the Talwar class are new build old designs, so while not as good as a brand new design they are certainly better than old ships.

The core problem with this class of ship is essentially every one Russia makes they are feeding and keeping alive the Ukrainian company that screwed them.

Sell off some new hulls and the existing hull to a foreign customer and then stop making the damn things and focus on new ships for the Russian navy.

PapaDragon wrote:

franco wrote:IMO if they have an engine and a hull plus it is cost effective, then they should go ahead and finish it. If my memory serves me correctly, the 11356 wasn't much more then the 23080 and less then the 23085 in cost.  

The thing is that they don't have the engine

So unless someone swiped one out of the Ukraine I don't see how they can do it

And designing whole engine for a single ship is redundant

AFAIK Russia produce their own engines for Grigorovitch frigates, but the first produced engines will go for Zubrs.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Pretty sure those orders are for India.

The 11356 is vastly inferior to the 22350, it makes no sense to order these when you have a better option already available.

unless they think they can modify the 22350 for the 11356, which sure they could by why bother.

India has ordered a licence to build them at home.

Grigorovitch my be inferior to Gorshkov but it is still a good ship. Better than all the other ships they have in service if we take out Gorshkov, kirov and Slava.

Isos wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Pretty sure those orders are for India.

The 11356 is vastly inferior to the 22350, it makes no sense to order these when you have a better option already available.

unless they think they can modify the 22350 for the 11356, which sure they could by why bother.

India has ordered a licence to build them at home.

Grigorovitch my be inferior to Gorshkov but it is still a good ship. Better than all the other ships they have in service if we take out Gorshkov, kirov and Slava.

Sure if you wanna set the bar that low, its a subpar ship by today's standards no way around that

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Isos wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Pretty sure those orders are for India.

The 11356 is vastly inferior to the 22350, it makes no sense to order these when you have a better option already available.

unless they think they can modify the 22350 for the 11356, which sure they could by why bother.

India has ordered a licence to build them at home.

Grigorovitch my be inferior to Gorshkov but it is still a good ship. Better than all the other ships they have in service if we take out Gorshkov, kirov and Slava.

Sure if you wanna set the bar that low, its a subpar ship by today's standards no way around that

I wouldn't call it such a low bar, considering that there are only about 6 active ships in RuNavy that fall into that category.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Isos wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Pretty sure those orders are for India.

The 11356 is vastly inferior to the 22350, it makes no sense to order these when you have a better option already available.

unless they think they can modify the 22350 for the 11356, which sure they could by why bother.

India has ordered a licence to build them at home.

Grigorovitch my be inferior to Gorshkov but it is still a good ship. Better than all the other ships they have in service if we take out Gorshkov, kirov and Slava.

Sure if you wanna set the bar that low, its a subpar ship by today's standards no way around that

What standards exactly ?

Nato ships come with 16 AD missiles and 8 subsonic anti ship missiles.

This ship comes with 24 AD missiles and 8 multipurpose missiles.

It's a new and well designed ship. Yes Gorshkov is better but this one is ready, modern that would replace one of the old ships and increase number of modern ships that use UKSK.

There are only positive points to finish it.

They can even redisign it to replace shtill with redut, replace the radars and add another UKSK instead of the rbu and paket NK instead of 533mm torpedo.

Isos wrote:...It's a new and well designed ship. Yes Gorshkov is better but this one is ready, modern that would replace one of the old ships and increase number of modern ships that use UKSK.

There are only positive points to finish it....

No

Engines

The end

PapaDragon wrote:

No

Engines

The end

They desperately need more frigates so if they have an engine solution they should seriously consider finishing the boats. Ultimately though they need to look at starting gorshkov class production at a second ship yard asap.

Lurk83 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

No

Engines

The end

They desperately need more frigates so if they have an engine solution they should seriously consider finishing the boats. Ultimately though they need to look at starting gorshkov class production at a second ship yard asap.

If they had an engine solution these ships would have been completed and joined Russian navy long time ago.

And they would only start production of Goshkov class in other shipyards once they ramp up the production of its engines and turbines, otherwise they will quickly end up having lots of empty hulls occupying yard space waiting for engine delivery.

owais.usmani wrote:

If they had an engine solution these ships would have been completed and joined Russian navy long time ago.

And they would only start production of Goshkov class in other shipyards once they ramp up the production of its engines and turbines, otherwise they will quickly end up having lots of empty hulls occupying yard space waiting for engine delivery.

Makes sense. If that's the case they should sell the grigorovirch class hulls to India asap and let India source more engines from Ukraine, if they can even provide them.

PapaDragon wrote:

Isos wrote:...It's a new and well designed ship. Yes Gorshkov is better but this one is ready, modern that would replace one of the old ships and increase number of modern ships that use UKSK.

There are only positive points to finish it....

No

Engines

The end

They proposed to finish it. So they have a solution for the engines.

And it's not the end because they won't scrap a ship they can sold 300 million $.

Isos wrote:
They proposed to finish it. So they have a solution for the engines.

The shipyard director asked the MOD that they can finish it quickly if MOD can arrange all the assets. Where did he say that they already have a engine available for it?
I am pretty sure some body in MOD would have replied to him "Hey a**hole, how many times we need to tell you, we ain't got no engine for that damn thing"

Isos wrote:And it's not the end because they won't scrap a ship they can sold 300 million $.

Only country that could be interested in buying that hull in India, and selling it to India would not be as easy as it seems. They would have to come up with a proposal which India agrees to. India is not exactly a scrap dealer.

Yeah the shipyard director has no idea what he is talking about. Hopefully they have memvers of this forum .

India is not a scrap dealer ? It's not an old soviet ship but a fresh build frigate that India already operates. They could easily sell it to them. Just need to make a good offer reduce the price and sell them solething else with it for exemple another 6 mig-29UPG or some pantsir S1 at advantagous price.