NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

PapaDragon wrote:

The-thing-next-door wrote:.................
Nuclear powered cruise missiles Khruhschev would be proud.....

That one is still in concept phase however Kinzhal is more than ready to go.

I wonder if Kinzhal can fit into those Granit launch tubes? Can anyone clarify?

The-thing-next-door wrote:.........
Does anyoene else get the impression that Russia will leave START once they have all thier new missiles ready for production?

With these things in play they won't need to.

According to what I read of transcript, the nuclear powered cruise missiles has already been tested. Or at least it's engine/motor has. Kind of hard to tell by the translator.

It seems evident that a new nuclear arms race has begun, in fact, as it is mentioned in literature, the race has probably been in progress since US withdrawal out of the ABM treaty.

Could this perhaps be the beginning of a nuclear stockpile buildup? The production of new nuclear capable artillery, missiles and self-propelled munitions? I would think so.

We will see more ABM elements being deployed in short-order either covertly or officially, thus Russia's hand has essentially been forced here.

It was suggested by some that the variable nuclear fuses on some munitions must be proximity fused. The thinking is the following: In the case of a war time scenario, it is critical to degrade the performance of ABM radars & sensors besides the use of decoys and anti-radar munitions.

In the point of view of the Russian Federation conventional forces are quite obsolete after a certain scale engagement, due to obvious conventional weaknesses Russia faces. Russia needs to make clear that any type of military action against it is just not worth it and will eventually lead to the use of nuclear weapons.

Bringing me on to my next point... The other dimension of deterrence that needs attention must be the ratio of cost of nuclear engagement vs perceived benefits. Thus Russia will have to construct nuclear arms that impose unacceptable consequences that might result from a tactical engagement. Such examples can be drawn from something like the status-6 that may employ, supposedly 100MT salted warheads. It has been reported by some that current warhead boosted technology easily allows for > 100 MT (reported 800MT boosted) compatible warheads in these drones.

Of course the rules of war come into play. Russia has a mythology of fighting wars in a humane and justified way and so weapons such as the status-6 are weapons of last resort. The question of course becomes how Moscow intends to secure these weapons and to make sure they are safe and out of reach of possible terrorists for a single mistake could cause catastrophic consequences.

Of course the rules of war come into play. Russia has a mythology of fighting wars in a humane and justified way and so weapons such as the status-6 are weapons of last resort. The question of course becomes how Moscow intends to secure these weapons and to make sure they are safe and out of reach of possible terrorists for a single mistake could cause catastrophic consequences.

There is not an has never been any issues with Soviet or Russian nuclear weapon security... except if you count western movies and books.

Russia is in the process of introducing a new generation of civilian nuclear power plant called fast breeder reactors where spent nuclear fuel can be place around a reactor and be enriched by the process of generating electrical power... producing weapons grade nuclear material very rapidly is a byproduct, reducing nuclear waste is another and creating fuel for sale is a third positive byproduct of the technology... building new nuclear weapons in the future wont be a problem.

These new weapons are a reaction to the US withdrawing from the ABM treaty... if the west is not happy then it can drop programmes that break the treaty and then renegotiate a new treaty...

US missile defense system in Romania threatens Russia’s security, says diplomat

The US missile defense system Aegis Ashore was deployed at the Deveselu Military Base in May 2016

BUCHAREST, August 2. /TASS/. The US missile defense system Aegis Ashore stationed at a military base in the Romanian commune of Deveselu threatens Russia’s security. Diplomat from the Russian Embassy in Bucharest Pavel Alexeyenko wrote on Facebook that it is proved by the words of Romanian Minister of Defense Mihai Fifor, who said in an interview with the TV channel Antena 3 on Tuesday that his country "has a military base with ballistic missiles in Deveselu." This wording, corrected by the minister later, sparked a large scandal.

"Fifor’s statement is another proof that the American shield in Deveselu is a direct and immediate threat to Russian national security. Thank you for this spontaneous truth, Mr Fifor!" the Russian diplomat wrote on social media on Wednesday evening. On Thursday, his statement was cited by numerous Romanian mass media, including the Mediafax agency.

Some local observers consider the Romanian minister’s statement as the possible confession that there are ballistic missiles at the Deveselu Military Base. Political analyst Stelian Tanase noted that "there are either ballistic missiles there, as Fifor said live," and then the minister should be removed from office and handed over to the tribunal for the divulgence of state secrets, or "this was just a slip of the tongue," which, however, should arouse mistrust in Romania among its NATO partners. On Wednesday, the leaders of three opposition parties - the National Liberal Party (PNL), the Save Romania Union (USR) and the People's Movement Party (PMP) - demanded the minister’s resignation.

Fifor himself stated later that he never said that there are ballistic missiles in Deveselu and supposed that his words could have been misinterpreted. "I never said there are any ballistic missiles in Deveselu," he told Mediafax. "Anyway, it is hard to believe that a defense minister could say such a thing. I think this is misinterpretation."

The US missile defense system Aegis Ashore was stationed at the Deveselu Military Base in May 2016. It includes the command and control center, Mk-41 vertical launching systems and SM-3 missile defense interceptors and is serviced by 200 US soldiers.

The Russian Foreign Ministry repeatedly stated that by deploying Aegis Ashore systems in Eastern European countries Washington violates its obligations under the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF Treaty).


More:
http://tass.com/defense/1015846

More importantly, the counter to the ABM sites in Europe is Kinzhal, which appears to simply be an Iskander ground launched missile carried to high altitude and mach 2.5 plus speed by a MiG-31, which improves its performance from mach 7 and 500km range for the ground launched model to mach 10 and 2,000km range for the air launched one.

They are testing using it from Tu-22M3M upgraded bombers, which would reduce the range and speed of the weapon, but with the flight range of the bomber added expanded the number of targets that it can engage... (four per aircraft).

Would be interesting to see what a MiG-41 flying at high altitude and Mach 4 could manage in terms of missile flight speed and range...

Indeed the ground based Iskander has a range limit, while an air launched model could be extended and expanded and made heavier and longer to achieve much better performance because the INF treaty does not apply to naval or air launched weapons...

It seems Kinzhal is pure rocket powered and is basically an air launched Iskander... so future developments on scramjets can only improve that performance in future models.

Of course the real issue for this thread topic of the INF treaty is that it should no longer just apply to Russia and the US and should be expanded to include NATO as well... which would be hilarious with Israels position... hahahaha.

Vedomosti learned how Russia will respond to American missiles in Europe

Moscow may deploy Iskander with increased range

Russia's response to the deployment of medium-range missiles in Europe will be the deployment of similar missiles, according to two sources of Vedomosti close to the Ministry of Defense. These may be missiles with an increased flight range based on cruise and ballistic missiles for the Iskander complex, which currently do not officially exist, the interlocutors say. " Vedomosti " sent a request to the Ministry of Defense.
...

Two years will be enough to create modifications of Iskander missiles of sufficient range to counterbalance American missiles, say a Vedomosti source in the Russian defense industry and an interlocutor close to the Russian Defense Ministry.

https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/articles/2021/12/13/900428-vedomosti-uznali-chem-rossiya-otvetit-na-amerikanskie-raketi-v-evrope

US Aegis Ashore missile shield system at final stage of deployment in Poland, says Shoigu

A similar ballistic missile defense facility in Romania is already on combat alert, the Russian Defense Minister pointed out

MOSCOW, December 21. /TASS/. Work is in progress in Poland to create infrastructure for a US armored brigade and the Aegis Ashore missile shield system is at the final stage of its deployment in that country, Russian Defense Minister Army General Sergey Shoigu said at the ministry’s enlarged board meeting on Tuesday.

"In Poland, infrastructure is being for a US armored brigade and work is nearing completion to deploy the Aegis Ashore missile shield system," the Russian defense chief said.

A similar ballistic missile defense facility in Romania is already on combat alert, Shoigu added.

The Russian Defense Ministry held an enlarged board meeting with the participation of President of Russia Vladimir Putin on December 21, which defined priorities for further development of the Army and the Navy.

Top commanders of the Russian Armed Forces and representatives of government agencies and public organizations were invited to the Defense Ministry’s enlarged board meeting.

https://tass.com/defense/1378669