Military budget of the Russian Federation

Some budget comparisons for 2014-2016;
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1560197.html

Financing of Russian uniformed agencies to increase by $810 mln in 2016
Business & Economy
November 03, 17:00 UTC+3
Overall, the spending planned for security and law enforcement in Russia equals 2.024 trillion rubles ($31.8 billion)

http://tass.ru/en/economy/833785

MOSCOW, November 3. /TASS/. The financing of Russia’s uniformed agencies will grow by 26 billion rubles ($410 million), according to a draft resolution the State Duma Security and Anticorruption Committee has issued in response to the 2016 draft budget. The committee is reviewing the main financial document of the nation, with the interested governmental bodies taking part in the process.

Overall, the spending planned for security and law enforcement equals 2.024 trillion rubles ($31.8 billion).

A draft federal budget was published in the state Duma’s electronic database on October 24. Under the draft, the 2016 defense spending was set at 3,145.090 billion rubles ($49.5 billion), i.e. there is a 25.5-billion-ruble ($400-million) increase over 2015.

At the same time, the financing of the Public Order and Anti-Crime Program was set by the draft budget at about 816 billion rubles ($12.8 billion) — an approximately 15-billion-ruble (about 2%) reduction compared with 2015.

Relative to the GDP, the defense spending alone is 4% in 2016. Its share of the overall federal budget will diminish to 19.6% compared with 2015 (20.2%).

Russia’s federal budget income in 2016 is planned to be 13.577 trillion rubles ($213 billion) and expenditures — 15.761 trillion rubles ($248 billion), according to the draft law worked out by the Finance Ministry and published on the Federal Website for Draft Laws and Regulations.

The budget includes the estimated GDP standing at 78.673 trillion rubles ($1.24 trillion) and an inflation rate within 6.4%.

Cracker you need to go through this forum thoroughly to gain knowledge about budgets. Russia+China is spending on PPP as much or more than USA, that is, Russia/China get much more for their money. USA would have to double their spending in order to catch up with Russia/China (in terms of development and production of new weapons). Also to note that a big portion of USA military spending goes on maintaining their troops that are heavily placed accross the globe and on consultants, which to a big extent is what would in other parts of the world be called corruption.

sepheronx wrote:Essentially, what I am getting out of this is that the National Defense Budget is over 3T Rubles ($49B USD) and that out of that $49B, $34B of it is going to the military (paying soldiers, maintenance, training, benefits, etc etc etc) and the rest through things like FSB, Nuclear weapons, other special operative groups, possibly weapons procurements, etc.  The wording makes it sound like something else but essentialy defense budget is $49B (or $90/some odd B in old exchange rate).  But defense means multitude of things and well, I imagine the national police units like Omon fall under the budget.

FSB, OMON etc. get their money through National security and law-enforcement budget, which is also very substantial. For example in 2012 national defence and national security & L-E budgets were basically the same size (about 1800 billion rubles each). As Austin's article shows the national defence budget has since grown a lot more than NS&LE as the military modernisation program has gone into high gear.

According to Janes Russian defence budget for 2015 is 3117 billion rubles. Comparing it to the 2012 budget with 2012 exhange rate (about 30RUB/1USD) shows just how dramatic the increase has been. 2012 budget was ~60 billion dollars, 2015 budget is 104 billion dollars with the same rate. At the same time the NS&LE budget increased from ~60 to 67 billion.

http://www.janes.com/article/55138/russia-reduces-planned-cuts-to-2016-defence-budget

If the PPP GDP of Russia is 300% of the nominal dollar GDP then I would argue that the military industrial complex in PPP
terms is at least 1000% of the nominal dollar value. The PPP evaluation is totally skewed to the consumer/civilian economy
so the 300% adjustment cannot be applied to the military economy.

So in proper PPP terms, the Russian military industrial complex is $490 billion per year which is very close to the USA
military budget. But as I posted before the equipment cost is misleading since there is a very large amount of non-monetized
activity. This cannot be dismissed it is the very reason that Russia's military industry survived the 1990s and early 2000s.
It is annoying how this epic achievement is ignored and we have various yaps going on about nominal expenditures as if
reality is isomorphic to money exchange. In the physical realm called reality Russia is as large as the USA in terms of
military industrial activity and capacity. In terms of sophistication it is not far behind like the western media consumer
lemmings would like to believe. We see some of this in Syria where the EW effectiveness of Russian forces is impressive.

sepheronx wrote:I think it is safer to just assume that it is still the 300% difference.  Once we go through larger numbers it sounds more silly imo.  At this point, I think Russia is spending a healthy sum on military procurement and development.  But it still seems there is plenty of work required, especially on the electronics front (still curious as to why there hasn't been more recent updates on AESA technology and only just tests of N036 and no word on Zhuk-A).

I totally disagree. The 300% is a weighted mean of different price scales. So you can't even apply it to every part of the civilian sector. Some
prices are the same or higher than in the USA and some prices are much lower. I cited an example of big ticket price military hardware
being 10 times cheaper. So my 1000% is conservative. It is also consistent with empirical observations.

we can agree that there is a major gap in US-Rus budget where US can't be challenged by Russia: Navy(read the freaking flleet of destroyers and nuclear supercarriers)+USMC and military infrastructures (bases) around the world. And US airforce 3 services combined is simply unchallenged in its number and quality (quality military accademies and training+quality planes (mostly)+quality ammunitions+ all that in seemingly infinite numbers).

I think Rus ground forces are *vastly* superior to US, and both have roughly parity on nuclear deterrent.

Russia is undefeatable on its soil, but its force projection is ridiculous if compared to US. But, the good news is: Russia never pretended to compete with US on that aspect of the military. US needs it because of its geographical isolation, has always been this way since slightly before WW2 and especially after. US emphasis on naval and air assets is showing, and nobody can compete with them.

So the US budget is largely swallowed by this silly (yet necessary if you subscribe to US pov) huge navy (not a single county in the world has the equivalent of 1 (a single one) nimitz supercarrier, and US operates at all times about a dozen of those or the newer class (george bush?)...) And if this wasn't enough, the USMC in itself is larger and more powerful than MOST armies on this planet, with a fleet of small carriers/amphibious ships that in itself dwarfs all combined european naval force projection.

Then it is swallowed by the countless bases that cost a shitload to maintain and operate along with personnel (US miliary personnel is graciously paid, also overall a big part of the budget litterally disappearing in the nothingness, not buying technology or stockpiling weapons)


To finish the airforce itself is a blackhole of money, and again, this is n°1 priority for US, understandably.

Russia has nothing similar to spend each year, so its budget is used in a very different manner, not on worldwide striking capacity and world policing, but on true inside-the borders defense.

Top euro countries with $$ budget "close" to russia are not even capable to fully operate 200 tanks (france, germany, UK).... Russia has at least 2000 tanks active at any time.... Just one example of totally uncomparable paper data that the common fellow cannot grasp and will continue to bark his "russia weak" bullshit.

From what i said right there and what KVS said, i'd say russia's direct converted US-comparable budget is not 490 but maybe closer to 250-300 billions, because you have to remove the 3 USA's specific critical spendings i've mentionned that are mostly unknown to Russia. Yes Russia has a strong navy and airforce nonetheless, but you see what i mean.

kvs wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I think it is safer to just assume that it is still the 300% difference.  Once we go through larger numbers it sounds more silly imo.  At this point, I think Russia is spending a healthy sum on military procurement and development.  But it still seems there is plenty of work required, especially on the electronics front (still curious as to why there hasn't been more recent updates on AESA technology and only just tests of N036 and no word on Zhuk-A).

I totally disagree.  The 300% is a weighted mean of different price scales.  So you can't even apply it to every part of the civilian sector.  Some
prices are the same or higher than in the USA and some prices are much lower.   I cited an example of big ticket price military hardware
being 10 times cheaper.  So my 1000% is conservative.  It is also consistent with empirical observations.

We all seem to agree that the Russian military budget in nominal dollars doesn't tell you anything and is not comparable to western countries, to the US in particular. But KVS, if according to you, Russian military budget "should" be 1000% higher or whatever, how do you explain the following: US has 10-11 supercarriers, 10 smaller ones, around 90 destroyers and cruisers, 60 nuclear submarines, around 3000 fighter aircraft and insane amount of transport helicopters and aircraft and other power projection assets, foreign military bases, numerous failed projects that cost billions of dollars, each.... (Well, they don't have a similar IADS system, or diesel submarines, or smaller vessels: frigates and corvettes, but those are asymmetrical capabilities, cheaper, defensive, that is their whole point.) And as Cracked mentioned, their "maintenance" costs are also absolutely massive. Really, something like 3 times more, or 150 billion looks about right to me.

Kimppis wrote:

kvs wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I think it is safer to just assume that it is still the 300% difference.  Once we go through larger numbers it sounds more silly imo.  At this point, I think Russia is spending a healthy sum on military procurement and development.  But it still seems there is plenty of work required, especially on the electronics front (still curious as to why there hasn't been more recent updates on AESA technology and only just tests of N036 and no word on Zhuk-A).

I totally disagree.  The 300% is a weighted mean of different price scales.  So you can't even apply it to every part of the civilian sector.  Some
prices are the same or higher than in the USA and some prices are much lower.   I cited an example of big ticket price military hardware
being 10 times cheaper.  So my 1000% is conservative.  It is also consistent with empirical observations.

We all seem to agree that the Russian military budget in nominal dollars doesn't tell you anything and is not comparable to western countries, to the US in particular. But KVS, if according to you, Russian military budget "should" be 1000% higher or whatever, how do you explain the following: US has 10-11 supercarriers, 10 smaller ones, around 90 destroyers and cruisers, 60 nuclear submarines, around 3000 fighter aircraft and insane amount of transport helicopters and aircraft and other power projection assets, foreign military bases, numerous failed projects that cost billions of dollars, each.... (Well, they don't have a similar IADS system, or diesel submarines, or smaller vessels: frigates and corvettes, but those are asymmetrical capabilities, cheaper, defensive, that is their whole point.) And as Cracked mentioned, their "maintenance" costs are also absolutely massive. Really, something like 3 times more, or 150 billion looks about right to me.

I was giving you what PPP means. You take the nominal prices in country X and scale them to reference country Y. Russian Project 636.3 submarines cost
less than $200 million at nominal prices but equivalent products from Japan and NATO countries are $2 billion each. And many other Russian military
industry prices are roughly 10 times cheaper than in the reference country USA. Hence a 1000% PPP adjustment for this part of Russia's GDP.

You are confusing legacy accumulation with annual expenditures. The equipment list you gave me has nothing to do with the annual military budget
of the USA being so much greater than that of Russia. The USA does not manufacture a dozen aircraft carriers every year. Recall that Russia experienced
one of the worst depressions in history where it lost 50% of its GDP. During this era a lot of Soviet military equipment (e.g. aircraft carriers) was left to
rot and basically lost. If the USA underwent a similar depression and left its fleets to rot it would have a much smaller list to boast about today. So
your point has no relevance to my PPP estimate.

cracker wrote:we can agree that there is a major gap in US-Rus budget where US can't be challenged by Russia: Navy(read the freaking flleet of destroyers and nuclear supercarriers)+USMC and military infrastructures (bases) around the world. And US airforce 3 services combined is simply unchallenged in its number and quality (quality military accademies and training+quality planes (mostly)+quality ammunitions+ all that in seemingly infinite numbers).

I think Rus ground forces are *vastly* superior to US, and both have roughly parity on nuclear deterrent.

Russia is undefeatable on its soil, but its force projection is ridiculous if compared to US. But, the good news is: Russia never pretended to compete with US on that aspect of the military. US needs it because of its geographical isolation, has always been this way since slightly before WW2 and especially after. US emphasis on naval and air assets is showing, and nobody can compete with them.

So the US budget is largely swallowed by this silly (yet necessary if you subscribe to US pov) huge navy (not a single county in the world has the equivalent of 1 (a single one) nimitz supercarrier, and US operates at all times about a dozen of those or the newer class (george bush?)...) And if this wasn't enough, the USMC in itself is larger and more powerful than MOST armies on this planet, with a fleet of small carriers/amphibious ships that in itself dwarfs all combined european naval force projection.

Then it is swallowed by the countless bases that cost a shitload to maintain and operate along with personnel (US miliary personnel is graciously paid, also overall a big part of the budget litterally disappearing in the nothingness, not buying technology or stockpiling weapons)


To finish the airforce itself is a blackhole of money, and again, this is n°1 priority for US, understandably.

Russia has nothing similar to spend each year, so its budget is used in a very different manner, not on worldwide striking capacity and world policing, but on true inside-the borders defense.

Top euro countries with $$ budget "close" to russia are not even capable to fully operate 200 tanks (france, germany, UK).... Russia has at least 2000 tanks active at any time.... Just one example of totally uncomparable paper data that the common fellow cannot grasp and will continue to bark his "russia weak" bullshit.

From what i said right there and what KVS said, i'd say russia's direct converted US-comparable budget is not 490 but maybe closer to 250-300 billions, because you have to remove the 3 USA's specific critical spendings i've mentionned that are mostly unknown to Russia. Yes Russia has a strong navy and airforce nonetheless, but you see what i mean.

Russia doesn't need power projection shouting My Way or Bombs your way at all. Soviet Navy/Russian Navy has been a global sea denial force. Bith Russia and US have different doctrine. Rest your preconceived notions on USMC or any other US military branch being topmost in quality is a pure sham, I've some sources but I never shared it here because people don't take much interest in US discussions. US due to its geographical position needs strong Navy and Aircraft Carriers are the first strike targets in a war against potent enemy.

Russia to Cut 2016 Military Spending By 5%

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160219/1035016486/russia-military-spending.html#ixzz40bTOwkCb

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The 2016 military spending in the country was expected to amount to 3.14 trillion rubles (over $41 billion at the current exchange rate) or 4 percent of GDP. A 5-percent cut amounts to some 160 billion rubles.

The Russian economy, highly dependent on energy exports, is experiencing a slowdown caused by a sharp decline in global oil prices and, to a lesser extent, by Western sanctions imposed on Moscow over its alleged role in the internal Ukrainian conflict — a claim the Kremlin has repeatedly denied.

In 2015, Russian military budget were reduced by almost 4 percent.

Shevtsova: Russia's defense budget is cut by 5% instead of 10%

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160305/1385437199.html

MOSCOW, March 5 -. RIA Novosti The budget of the Ministry of Defense of Russia will be reduced not by 10 percent, as previously discussed, and 5 percent, sequestration will not affect the state program of armaments and social obligations to servicemen, he said on Saturday in a radio broadcast , "Russian news service" Deputy Minister of defense of the Russian Federation Tatyana Shevtsova.

"The country's leadership, the president, it was decided that the state program of armaments can not be sequestered at all. It was also decided that the budget of the Ministry of Defense will be reduced not by 10 and 5 percent, and that is important, sequestration is not subject to social obligations," - she said .

Kudrin: Without reserves Russia would've been forced to cut military spending by half

More:
http://tass.ru/en/economy/871170

Russia to boost defense spending by extra $533 million

The Russian government has confirmed a modernization program for the country's defense industry in order to strengthen the position of Russian products on the world market. The country’s military experts say that the resources are necessary to buy machines and produce components that Russia used to buy from its partners abroad.

George1 wrote:Kudrin: Without reserves Russia would've been forced to cut military spending by half

More:
http://tass.ru/en/economy/871170

Now that we have seen the reserves increase to over $390 US billion we can confidently dismiss this idiot as the crank
he is. According to him and the rest of the liberast 5th column the reserves should have been vanishing by now.

Project Canada wrote:

Russia to boost defense spending by extra $533 million

The Russian government has confirmed a modernization program for the country's defense industry in order to strengthen the position of Russian products on the world market. The country’s military experts say that the resources are necessary to buy machines and produce components that Russia used to buy from its partners abroad.

This must apply to the state owned part of the MIC. The private part has been undergoing modernization for years and has not stopped
retooling. Anyway, the sanctions have been a serious boost to Russian GDP diversification and national security. NATO blowhards must
be ripping their own hair out with rage.

Funding for Russian defense industry program to amount to $26.2 billion

More:
http://tass.ru/en/defense/884360

Ministry of Finance has projected defence budget for 2017-2019 , 1 Trillion roubles in cut

https://ria.ru/economy/20161007/1478757703.html

Expenditure under the "National Defense" Ministry of Finance plans to reduce in 2017 to 2.84 trillion rubles in 2017 against 3.889 trillion rubles in 2016. In 2018 and 2019 the costs of this article would amount to 2,728 trillion and 2,816 trillion rubles.

In Trillion roubles

2011 - 1.515 
2012 - 1.812
2013 -  2.106
2014 -  2.49
2015 -   3.032 
2016 -  3.889
2017 -  2.84
2018 -  2.728
2019 -  2.816

Total =  23,22 Trillion

SAP -2020  projected a figure of 23 trillion rouble   (  20 Trillion of Military Budget + 3 Trillion for MIC )