Russia - Egypt military contracts

If Russia did indeed deliver to Egypt then US would be up and down about it, i'm happy if it happened but i need a reliable confirmation, otherwise it didn't happen

joker88 wrote:The Su-35 has been delivered to Egypt since the beginning of last week
A swarm of them has already arrived in Egypt
I hope Klab Juming and Gary apologize now

Dont think anyone needs to apologize here as most (agreed not all) understood the geopolitical pitfalls for Egypt because of slithery nonsense like CAATSA. The su-35 along with the rafale and others will be good security against sanctions or lack of supply in turmoil, etc. If Egypt does end up getting the su-35 and they get even just the r-77-1 many in the Mideast and here in America would be up in arms about it. Not even mentioning the R-37m. That would cause intense drama.

We are actually in the sanctions phase

sorry what my government is doing. particularly after discovering we were behind the takeover of your gov via the muslim brotherhood. we cannot allow these monsters to stay in power they are traitors to the constitution and the bill of rights.

GarryB wrote:Not sure what I have to apologise for...

Imagine the nerve?  

GarryB wrote:but if what you say can be confirmed

You want confirmation?!  How dare you, Gary!  "Just trust me, bro".  

This is the unfortunate yet typical social manifestation that has infected so many from the ol' country.  It's like covid, except this is a cultural plague that's been maliciously and forcibly inserted by vindictive cretins that automatically infects & spreads within these unfortunate victims of society who don't know better.  Speaking of that, notice the blatantly silly usage of the words in my username?  "Klab" is actually referring to the word 'kalb' which is as many know, 'dog' in Arabic and in our culture, unfortunately, doggos are mostly considered filthy street strays and the term is used in a derogatory fashion as an insult.  But when considering the source, it's only funny at best, especially the lame attempt at purposely misspelling it.

Then you have the silly inference of "juming" to my actual username loool.  The level of childish display is immature at best.

GarryB wrote:I am sure Gomig-21 will be happy to apologise to any one who will listen,

lol  BTW, quick story you'll laugh at: when the F-16s were first being introduced back in the early 80s and the EAF was actively looking for qualified recruits, mostly pilots rather than crewmen, I actually applied.  I was in line for my interview and at the time I was heavily into my 'rock & roll' phase so my hair was juuuuuusssst a bit longer than your typical army buzz (that's putting it mildly lmaaaaaaooooo you can certainly chalk it up to not being too bright despite my dear father's valiant efforts to warn me) so I sat in at my interview with the recruiting commander.  He briefly glanced at my paperwork and just took one look at me and smiled then said "nah, if I was you, I would just go to America and play the guitar or something) LOLOL!  I swear to you that is exactly what he said, verbatim, without even asking me a single effing question!    Guess what?  That's exactly what I did! looool  

GarryB wrote:because that would be his greatest wish come true... well other than getting to fly it himself of course...

So true, hahaha.  I'd love to take a quick spin you got the keys?

On a serious note, how incredibly great would that be if there was any truth to it?  That would mean it was most likely the results from the efforts to mediate some of the hostages' releases and whatever else Sisi and co. have been doing behind closed doors helped lead to some agreement regarding CAATSA, as well as moving forward with being able to deal with Russia concerning all other military aspects.  The stakes are too high to absorb beyond these Su-35s.  There are the tremendous amounts of Russian-made equipment that Egypt has already invested in that not only needs continuous dealings but associated surplus purchases as well.  The MiG-35 for example is critical for adding to the current inventory of the 29M/M2.  New engines, spares and even the radar change that supposedly was part of the original contract.  Additional missiles for all the TOR-M2s, BUK-M2s, S-300s etc., etc.  Additional numbers of Su-35s and beyond that platform as we discussed a few posts back.  Can't just put all that stuff in limbo on a shelf.

I am sure Egypt could sell the idea of buying the Su-35s to the US because the alternative they can argue is for Iran to buy them... I would say the US would not be happy in either event, but would much prefer Egypt to buy them rather than Iran have them.

We will see.... How much horrible back fire does the US need to see before they realise that their policies to date are terrible... one of the US candidates for their next election is talking about changing stance in regard to Russia with the goal of preventing Russia and China from working together, but that ship has already sailed in my opinion and there is no way in hell Russia would risk relations with its powerful and growing neighbour just to get the US to treat them nicer.

Russia no longer panders to the west to get their approval because they already learned no matter what they do they wont get it anyway... if the west wants better relations then it is up to them to do the work because Russia is not going to bother, and the situation in the west is likely going to need to get rather worse for them to eat crow and treat Russia with any respect.

China has been a better partner than the west ever was and makes no demands on Russia for changes and modifications in terms of religion or government or culture.

Egypt likely depends on the west but the reality is that while the west is relatively rich they don't pay top price for things so they are not good markets to get in to... an Indian and a Chinese and even a Russian market are more desirable because they are less likely to screw you over on prices and deals... Russia was essentially subsidising the European Union with cheap energy and cheap raw materials and its still wasn't enough... they wanted spot pricing instead of long term contracts so they could get their energy even cheaper. There is a western fable about a dog with a bone walking across a bridge over a still river... the dog looks down and sees another dog in the water and it has a bone too so the dog barks because it wants the other dogs bone too and in a splash both bones disappear... the war in Syria and the war in the Ukraine and the war in Israel is the splash.

Egypt has enormous potential to trade with the rest of the world, and now they are joining BRICS you should be better protected from the sht the west will throw at you.

Gomig-21 wrote:

GarryB wrote:Not sure what I have to apologise for...

Imagine the nerve?  

GarryB wrote:but if what you say can be confirmed

You want confirmation?!  How dare you, Gary!  "Just trust me, bro".  

This is the unfortunate yet typical social manifestation that has infected so many from the ol' country.  It's like covid, except this is a cultural plague that's been maliciously and forcibly inserted by vindictive cretins that automatically infects & spreads within these unfortunate victims of society who don't know better.  Speaking of that, notice the blatantly silly usage of the words in my username?  "Klab" is actually referring to the word 'kalb' which is as many know, 'dog' in Arabic and in our culture, unfortunately, doggos are mostly considered filthy street strays and the term is used in a derogatory fashion as an insult.  But when considering the source, it's only funny at best, especially the lame attempt at purposely misspelling it.

Then you have the silly inference of "juming" to my actual username loool.  The level of childish display is immature at best.

GarryB wrote:I am sure Gomig-21 will be happy to apologise to any one who will listen,

lol  BTW, quick story you'll laugh at: when the F-16s were first being introduced back in the early 80s and the EAF was actively looking for qualified recruits, mostly pilots rather than crewmen, I actually applied.  I was in line for my interview and at the time I was heavily into my 'rock & roll' phase so my hair was juuuuuusssst a bit longer than your typical army buzz (that's putting it mildly lmaaaaaaooooo you can certainly chalk it up to not being too bright despite my dear father's valiant efforts to warn me) so I sat in at my interview with the recruiting commander.  He briefly glanced at my paperwork and just took one look at me and smiled then said "nah, if I was you, I would just go to America and play the guitar or something) LOLOL!  I swear to you that is exactly what he said, verbatim, without even asking me a single effing question!    Guess what?  That's exactly what I did! looool  

GarryB wrote:because that would be his greatest wish come true... well other than getting to fly it himself of course...

So true, hahaha.  I'd love to take a quick spin you got the keys?

On a serious note, how incredibly great would that be if there was any truth to it?  That would mean it was most likely the results from the efforts to mediate some of the hostages' releases and whatever else Sisi and co. have been doing behind closed doors helped lead to some agreement regarding CAATSA, as well as moving forward with being able to deal with Russia concerning all other military aspects.  The stakes are too high to absorb beyond these Su-35s.  There are the tremendous amounts of Russian-made equipment that Egypt has already invested in that not only needs continuous dealings but associated surplus purchases as well.  The MiG-35 for example is critical for adding to the current inventory of the 29M/M2.  New engines, spares and even the radar change that supposedly was part of the original contract.  Additional missiles for all the TOR-M2s, BUK-M2s, S-300s etc., etc.  Additional numbers of Su-35s and beyond that platform as we discussed a few posts back.  Can't just put all that stuff in limbo on a shelf.

I didn't make a mistake when I described you as such
You just talk a lot without evidence
I know that you do not know anything while you are outside the country
Just a tramp
We have been under sanctions for two weeks
I'm a naval officer if you didn't know
Don't talk nonsense when you are the master of it

@Gomig-21
The fighters arrived in Egypt
But there is another type with it
You have the factory land and confirm for yourself that a swarm has disappeared from there
Bla bla bla very much from you
You want to show that you know everything when you know nothing

@joker88

You need to calm down , it's ok if you believe the aircrafts are in Egypt now , actually we all hope that , it's just a matter of a concrete evidence.

I remember that Egypt has received first TOR M1 systems and actually showed it years later , during this time gab there were doubts and rumors regarding the delivery until it was crystal clear confirmed after the military show .

GarryB wrote:I am sure Egypt could sell the idea of buying the Su-35s to the US because the alternative they can argue is for Iran to buy them... I would say the US would not be happy in either event, but would much prefer Egypt to buy them rather than Iran have them.

That's exactly what I was telling my bros on other forums.  Some of them didn't understand the premise to that concept and thought I was saying that they would be more dangerous in Iranian hands than in Egyptian hands, implying their pilots were better than our pilots which was obviously not the case.  This is, again, the same manifestation of that cretinism I was referring to in my previous post. It makes people quickly assu me an insult is being perpetrated and how dare you mother f........

If they actually took a deep breath before reacting and made a better effort to understand the comment, they would realize the correct insinuation which is 100% true.  What is the likelihood that those 30 Su-35s would be used against the apartheid state or even the US, while active with Egypt or with Iran?  No-brainer.

I almost wonder if Russia was pressured by the zionists not to sell any to Iran?  Since they still seem to be stored in Russia and Iran only received 2 Yak-130s?  Oh wait, never mind, the Su-35s were delivered to Egypt crap I forgot.  Also with another type, too, 60 more Su-30SMs!  

I'm pretty sure Iran could easily pay for those aircraft despite them being sanctioned up the wazoo.  Still, it just seems like maybe Putin is a little apprehensive about overtly dealing with Iran during these crazy times.  I could be wrong and basing my opinion strictly on the rumors that Iran was going to take them off of Egypt's hands. but that doesn't seem to have happened yet.  They do need a shot in their air force's arm.  

GarryB wrote:We will see.... How much horrible back fire does the US need to see before they realise that their policies to date are terrible... one of the US candidates for their next election is talking about changing stance in regard to Russia with the goal of preventing Russia and China from working together, but that ship has already sailed in my opinion and there is no way in hell Russia would risk relations with its powerful and growing neighbour just to get the US to treat them nicer.

Yeah, I agree.  Vivek Ramaswamy is actually walking back some of those comments, particularly the one about weening the apartheid state off of US aid.  I think when he got lambasted by that most insufferable wicked wrench wench witch of wistoria named nicky shmikhaley and how so far up the zionists stink hole her nose is in, he realized that there is no way to get anywhere in US politics without sticking his nose far up zionists cracks. Now he's like "cut every head off of every Palestinian Hamas baby and impale it on a stake ala GOT!"  Lame.

GarryB wrote:Egypt likely depends on the west but the reality is that while the west is relatively rich they don't pay top price for things so they are not good markets to get in to... an Indian and a Chinese and even a Russian market are more desirable because they are less likely to screw you over on prices and deals... Russia was essentially subsidising the European Union with cheap energy and cheap raw materials and its still wasn't enough... they wanted spot pricing instead of long term contracts so they could get their energy even cheaper. There is a western fable about a dog with a bone walking across a bridge over a still river... the dog looks down and sees another dog in the water and it has a bone too so the dog barks because it wants the other dogs bone too and in a splash both bones disappear... the war in Syria and the war in the Ukraine and the war in Israel is the splash.

Took me a couple of reads to get the bone anecdote LOL! Your spot on, though.
Egypt's dependency on the US is almost strictly military-related.  Sure there's a lot of clout the US holds vis a vis Egypt's commerce & trading with the rest of the world and could influence it greatly with a quick bill through congress.  But it is interesting how many of the Egyptian people want the military aid to end.  They're sick of the US' hegemony and influence.  Despite the military aid being conditional to the peace treaty with the apartheid state and holds the US somewhat hostage to that aid, it's still hampering Egypt's purchase power, to a large extent, on the quality and quantity of military products not just from the US, but others.  The solution really isn't that easy.  Those who scream "aaaahhh you're puppet slaves to the west rwaaaaa" don't really understand the complexity of the situation.  But I am noticing that a lot more are starting to see it, though.

On the other hand, as a result of Egypt playing both sides of the fence has caused it to lose out on acquiring some of that critical quality.  Case in point - better F-16s, the longbow radar on the Apache helicopters and of course, the vaunted AIM-120.  In all fairness & objectivity, the Egyptian military did not do itself any favors when for example, it allowed Chinese representatives to take a "very close" look at one of the EAF's F-16s.  They know that the US has a major network of personnel actively working in Egypt with almost all US hardware to keep an eye on it and secure its proper intended usage.  This is a well-known fact.  Engine overhauls are overseen by US personnel.  New parts like pylons, gas tanks, ordinances etc. are always inspected for not only inventory receipts, but for proper usage.  Why on earth would they not be more cautious and not blatantly violate one of the worst clauses of that agreement is strange to me to say the least.  This was a well-known occurrence that freaked the living daylights out of the original wicked witch of the west Hilary Clinton.  It happened back when she was US senator for NY.  They kept pushing Mubarak & Egypt to sign the CISMOA but he was influenced by the real custodians of power not to sign it.  They thought the treaty had too many clauses that constricted usage and were probably right in not wanting to sign it.  But the 3rd party infractions rule is a standard part of any military contract signed with the US, CISMOA notwithstanding.  

As a result, I do believe that the Egyptian military has the largest 3rd part violations infraction on it looool.  Weird, but it is what it is.

GarryB wrote:Egypt has enormous potential to trade with the rest of the world, and now they are joining BRICS you should be better protected from the sht the west will throw at you.

It's already happening, ma man.  Huge potential deals involving transfer of technologies with China, India, Brazil, Serbia and now with the rewarming relations between Sisi and Erdogan, we could be seeing huge cooperation with Turkey and their impressive military industry.  If there is ever a small opening to jump into, that would be number 1 in my book, especially with their missiles -- and specifically cruise missiles -- technology as well as their UAV industry.  Egypt already has a very decent unmanned aerial vehicle program with several indigenous designs that are currently flying.  They've invested in ridiculously large numbers of Wing Loongs from China and we all know the success of the TB2 Baykar Bayraktar.

For me personally, I have 3 priorities for local production.  My ultimate wish for 1st is for Egypt to produce its own variant of a BVR A2A missile so it's not constricted by anyone which would elevate the EAF to the next level.  Whether it's a copy of the R-77-1, or PL-15 or whatever, it would be perfect.  Having a locally produced and effective missile along with imported ones such as the RVV-SD would be phenomenal.

2nd is adding additional submarined to the current fleet.  As we all know, having subs with lethal weapons is a must for any navy, especially one that's high well-ranked like the EN is.  4 Type 2s and 4 Romeos is just not going to cut it.  Not complaining, but strength in numbers is crucial in this particular case. There is a tentative MoU with France on a potential purchase of Scorpene AIP submarines.  I'd like to see the EGY navy not rely strictly on German subs and my first choice would actually be Russian-built Kilos (love those beasts), but the Scorpenes would do just fine. Plus having AIP capable boats would enhance the navy's blue water endeavors and increase group protection.

3rd is a joint venture of a fighter.  There's a couple of choices out there but to make it happen would be fantastic.  Maybe they work out the Tejas deal or something with China, we'll have to see. Unfortunately, I don't think the budget is there for the Su-75. That would be the best, but grounded reality says it's off the table for now anyway.    

Sorry for the rant lol, not much happening on this thread anyway, so might as well indulge.

ahmedfire wrote:@joker88

You need to calm down , it's ok if you believe the aircrafts are in Egypt now , actually we all hope that , it's just a matter of a concrete evidence.

I remember that Egypt has received first TOR M1 systems and actually showed it  years later , during this time gab there were doubts and rumors regarding the delivery until it was crystal clear confirmed after the military show .

It's easier to hide a Tor than a su-35 that flies above civilians and aircraft spotters.

Still, it just seems like maybe Putin is a little apprehensive about overtly dealing with Iran during these crazy times.

Putin does not like to just throw cards on the table when it is not his turn to play... I think Putin has no problem at all dealing with Iran on a range of levels because it is pretty damn clear the west is murdering Russians and thinking that is all fine... self defence when Kiev or Israel does it... murder and war crime and aggression when Russians or Palestinians or Iranians do it...

Putins dreams of partnership with the west are gone and wont come back unless the Europeans actually work for it... it is not just going to take a change of policy.

It is going to require a fundamental change.

And I can't see that happening any time soon.

I could be wrong and basing my opinion strictly on the rumors that Iran was going to take them off of Egypt's hands. but that doesn't seem to have happened yet. They do need a shot in their air force's arm.

If Egypt has paid for them then they belong to Egypt. The Su-35s the Russians make for Iran will likely be different, they might even want Su-30s upgraded to Su-35 standard... essentially a two seat Su-35 to replace their F-14s and F-4s...

Yeah, I agree. Vivek Ramaswamy is actually walking back some of those comments, particularly the one about weening the apartheid state off of US aid. I think when he got lambasted by that most insufferable wicked wrench wench witch of wistoria named nicky shmikhaley and how so far up the zionists stink hole her nose is in, he realized that there is no way to get anywhere in US politics without sticking his nose far up zionists cracks. Now he's like "cut every head off of every Palestinian Hamas baby and impale it on a stake ala GOT!" Lame.

But isn't the irony amusing... he walks back his comments because other politicians he is competing with don't like them... who the Fk cares what your competition likes or does not like about your views and campaign choices... perhaps he might realise that it is not about pleasing the other candidates... the US population wants something different, not more of the same shit... half the people who voted for Trump voted for him because he wasn't Hillary... and those votes count.

Took me a couple of reads to get the bone anecdote LOL! Your spot on, though.

The dog didn't realise it had a bone, which is what it needed. It wanted a second bone because two bones are better than one when it saw the reflection of itself in the water, even though it didn't really need a second bone and when it opened its mouth to scare the other dog so it could take its bone the one bone it had fell from its mouth into the river and was gone... along with its reflection. Be happy with what you have because trying to get more could lead you to lose everything.

Egypt's dependency on the US is almost strictly military-related. Sure there's a lot of clout the US holds vis a vis Egypt's commerce & trading with the rest of the world and could influence it greatly with a quick bill through congress. But it is interesting how many of the Egyptian people want the military aid to end. They're sick of the US' hegemony and influence. Despite the military aid being conditional to the peace treaty with the apartheid state and holds the US somewhat hostage to that aid, it's still hampering Egypt's purchase power, to a large extent, on the quality and quantity of military products not just from the US, but others. The solution really isn't that easy. Those who scream "aaaahhh you're puppet slaves to the west rwaaaaa" don't really understand the complexity of the situation. But I am noticing that a lot more are starting to see it, though.

The irony is that the aid is not for Egypt.... the aid is for the American MIC who gets the money in the end, and the aid is to keep Egypt on a leash for Israel to feel safer... It is a method of control where the US gets a say in Egypts defence and they are not interested in Egypt or her safety, they see you as a potential problem for Israel and they want ropes to control you and keep you in line. US military aide is a collar around your neck so they can use a lead the directions they want you to go.

They kept pushing Mubarak & Egypt to sign the CISMOA but he was influenced by the real custodians of power not to sign it. They thought the treaty had too many clauses that constricted usage and were probably right in not wanting to sign it. But the 3rd party infractions rule is a standard part of any military contract signed with the US, CISMOA notwithstanding.

The US has led the way of course... just blame those you have signed the treaty with of breaking the clauses of the agreement and if they don't stop you are going to withdraw... and then withdraw from the treaty/agreement.... I am sure they will understand.

It's already happening, ma man. Huge potential deals involving transfer of technologies with China, India, Brazil, Serbia and now with the rewarming relations between Sisi and Erdogan, we could be seeing huge cooperation with Turkey and their impressive military industry.

And that is the point.... these countries have better equipment than the US, but like you they have gaps.... by working together you not only fill the gaps but create a market for products too. It makes no sense for Turkey to make a tank only for itself for instance, but get together with a few other countries and they can make a decent affordable tank and also create a market to sell that tank in decent numbers to make it profitable.

I always thought India made a mistake with its Arjun tank... what I think it should have done was design and build the cheaper simpler mass production tank with reasonable armour and a good gun and good systems and equipment and bought and licence assembled the T-90 as their top tier tank with expensive stuff including APS etc etc.

Making a high quality top tier vehicle or platform is expensive and so you are never going to make more than a few hundred, which makes them even more expensive.

When making your own stuff never make the big heavy expensive stuff you are not going to buy a lot of... make the cheap simple mass produced stuff like MANPADS and ATGMs like Kornet and RPG-29 and make them in enormous numbers... and that will make them effective.

For me personally, I have 3 priorities for local production.

If our joker friend is correct and Egypt as Su-35s then US sanctions will be imposed, so you might as well look at Russian options too... I mean if they are going to punish you for buying the planes you want, perhaps now would be a good time to look at buying other weapons and equipment from them too.

I would encourage cooperation with Turkey and other countries not on a US leash, cooperation would be good for both parties.

The situation in Israel is going to have to get sorted out... Africa is saying no the Europe, can the Middle East say no to the US and Europe?

We will see.

The current conflict has ended a few rather important agreements Biden thought he was going to get signed that might have saved his presidential candidacy for the next election (in his mind of course).

Ukraine turning upside down and no Israel in a battle for its future... things are not looking rosy for the US at all.

It's easier to hide a Tor than a su-35 that flies above civilians and aircraft spotters.

Planes can be shipped if you want to keep it quiet.