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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:12 am

    Really don't think putting the nose of an Su-34, the Swing wings of the Su-24, and the upside down body of the PAK FA would make a good aircraft.

    If the role is high altitude high speed penetration then swing wings are not the best choice.

    Swing wings are for taking off at heavy weights, flying long distances at medium altitude in an efficient cruise speed, and then a high speed dash to and from a target launch area at high or low altitude with a long medium altitude moderate cruise speed home.

    Fighting NATO will not require heavy bombs... long range cruise missiles and intermediate range ballistic missiles would be rather more effective, while fighters like PAK FA would be critical in blunting any similar attack on Russia.
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Fighting NATO will not require heavy bombs... long range cruise missiles and intermediate range ballistic missiles would be rather more effective, while fighters like PAK FA would be critical in blunting any similar attack on Russia.


    Sight.. you really think in terms of retaliation .. like if they hit with this ,then we hit with that.. this is not about fighting.
    What i mention is DETERRENCE. To Scare the hell of anyone whenever the plane fly near any nation border.. reason?
    Because if they fly very high altitude US Will have nothing plane to intercept them in time of peace. in friendly ways.. You cannot intercept with missiles friendly.. because of the cost and because you can't attack anyone who fly on international space. So those bombers could literary become a Very powerful psicological weapon..  is called fear diplomacy.. and it can do a lot to avoid conflicts by merely flying bombers near any nation and become a dissuasive weapon of being nice with Russia .Think about this.. Why Russia bothers to fly with Old bombers near Alaska? if they have topols-M that can do the same?  Is about instant response . To remember US they will have no time to prepare if Russia one day choose to attack. But Unfortunately Russian bombers can be very quickly intercepted by any plane. Why they need mesospehere bombers. That will be a huge deterrence to have a bomber in the mesosphere flying near your borders..knowing you can't push them away with any plane.  Then Russia for example now..they could have 1 fly every day near alaska or US capital in times of big tension and even spy of the country communications and movements. It will be a major event and will have everyone thinking in terms.. "wow a bomber with nukes or with conventional bombs..is flying near us and in withing minutes can strike our president conference."  The bombers as bonus can carry conventional warheads and used for example in Ukraine.or Turkey.that they have no capability to shut down mesosphere planes. No SM-3.. this will force US to spend many billions to equip all NATO countries in many cities with High Altitude missiles.. that still cannot be used against planes that flight in neutral space. Try to see it.. is not hard. is called Instant deterrence. That could create a lot of fear on Russia potential enemies ,being remembered that Russia withing minutes can do a decapitation attack on any country.. and finish its leadership in minutes.  Just imagine for a second how you will feel if you were planing to protest against your government and every night had the same Afganistan drones flying every night above your house?  . It will really scare ..and force people to back down any action that could be seen as aggression to them. Russian Pak-Fa is not a deterrence weapon.

    collegeboy16
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    Post  collegeboy16 Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:40 pm

    the russkies have enough detterence, they want something they can use without sparking WW3.
    Indian Flanker
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    Post  Indian Flanker Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:09 pm

    PAK-DA is going to be their strategic bomber(though not hypersonic). While PAK-FA is going to be their "tip of the spear" fighter plane. These are completely two different things and both have their own valuable place in the arsenal of VVS.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:57 pm

    Russia doesn't need a weapon to scare NATO... well it doesn't need another one.

    MAD works right now and that will prevent all out war with NATO.

    For minor skirmishes however conventional military power is needed.

    For problems with non NATO foes conventional forces are also critical, and for simple border security conventional forces are the best option.

    Stupidly expensive hypersonic bombers are pointless... ICBM warheads are already hypersonic... duh!
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:35 pm

    And in the future the most minor skirmishes that russia will need to do is overseas protecting the interests of potential allies(especially in latin america and middle east) are overseas so most of all investment should be done on naval forces. Without them no amount of nuclear weapons or armies will be able to be used in the same effect

    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from invading grenada
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from invading panama
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from meddling and invading the whole of the middle eats
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from invading dominican republic
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop south africa from invading fellow countries
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop west europe from meddling in the african continent
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from invading serbia
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from blockading cuba
    and etc.,etc.etc.

    only a large very threatening naval presence could've stopped this from happening.

    Also a massive land and nuclear force causes too much isolation, economic and political. Isolation was part of reason's for USSR's collapse.

    But the current boneheads still want russia to have only massive nuclear stockpile and massive army.  Budgets for space warfare and and navy, the main things that can give the much needed gloabl influence are extremely meagerly funded compared to the former 2.

    "BBBBBUUUUTT MURICANS MIGHT INVADE THROUGH EAST EUROPE!!111!!!" BS cliche, this isn't 1940s,  NATO militaries are 100% dicouraged  from attacking anywhere near russia due to MAD as garry said, besides russian technology, territorial specifics and less than adequate NATo deployability are also extreme factors that make russia safe and why it should have globa offensive objectives, since due to the xaples above it proves that The only way to fight western imperialism abroad is to fight western imperialism ABROAD ON EQUAL TERMS

    I hope russia gets a leader with peter 1st and stalin type of thinking, in navy building terms.
    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:05 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from blockading cuba

    I am not commenting on the rest of your post, but this item didn't happen, and it's just a fiction generated for US internal consumption.

    By the way, it wasn't me who voted you down. It is quite off-topic though.
    collegeboy16
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    Post  collegeboy16 Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:17 pm

    if i was head of sukhoi marketing division i would start a viral ad campaign centered on the ridiculous disparity in abilities offered by FGFA over Rafale for the same price range(100 mil). That should get some people esp. the amateur majority buzzing. Special emphasis must be placed on FGFA's stealth qualities and 5th gen-ness.
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:49 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:And in the future the most minor skirmishes that russia will need to do is overseas protecting the interests of potential allies(especially in latin america and middle east) are overseas so most of all investment should be done on naval forces. Without them no amount of nuclear weapons or armies will be able to be used in the same effect

    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from invading grenada
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from invading panama
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from meddling and invading the whole of the middle eats
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from invading dominican republic
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop south africa from invading fellow countries
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop west europe from meddling in the african continent
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from invading serbia
    Russian nuclear weapons and massive army didn't stop US from blockading cuba
    and etc.,etc.etc.

    only a large very threatening naval presence could've stopped this from happening.

    Also a massive land and nuclear force causes too much isolation, economic and political. Isolation was part of reason's for USSR's collapse.

    But the current boneheads still want russia to have only massive nuclear stockpile and massive army.  Budgets for space warfare and and navy, the main things that can give the much needed gloabl influence are extremely meagerly funded compared to the former 2.

    "BBBBBUUUUTT MURICANS MIGHT INVADE THROUGH EAST EUROPE!!111!!!" BS cliche, this isn't 1940s,  NATO militaries are 100% dicouraged  from attacking anywhere near russia due to MAD as garry said, besides russian technology, territorial specifics and less than adequate NATo deployability are also extreme factors that make russia safe and why it should have globa offensive objectives, since due to the xaples above it proves that The only way to fight western imperialism abroad is to fight western imperialism ABROAD ON EQUAL TERMS

    I hope russia gets a leader with peter 1st and stalin type of thinking, in navy building terms.


    For a 16 year old I am satisfied that you read history even if you have your facts twisted.
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:47 am

    collegeboy16 wrote:if i was head of sukhoi marketing division i would start a viral ad campaign centered on the ridiculous disparity in abilities offered by FGFA over Rafale for the same price range(100 mil). That should get some people esp. the amateur majority buzzing. Special emphasis must be placed on FGFA's stealth qualities and 5th gen-ness.

    Against Pakistan the FGFA is not required .

    Against China the FGFA is in effective . China will respond with the Su 35 and the S 400 .

    Right now what India needs is the Super Sukhoi . If each of these Super Sukhoi can be armed with 1 BRAHMOS or 2 NIRBHAY they can cause serious trouble for Chinese Air Defense from stand off ranges .

    In the absence of a dedicated bombers like the TU 160 India will need at least 5 squadrons of Super Sukhois .

    Also , just like China , India should fully develop it's UCAV that it supposed to undergo it's first test flight next year.

    In any case , in a conflict between China & India it's going to be the land based Cruise Missiles and TBMs that will do the talking for both sides .Air Power will come later .



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    Post  TR1 Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:32 am

    Russia should invest giant funds into a giant navy so it can protect Grenada?

    That is idiotic to put mildly.
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:36 am

    TR1 wrote:Russia should invest giant funds into a giant navy so it can protect Grenada?

    That is idiotic to put mildly.

    A much cheaper and more effective way would to lecture Grenada to have their own military and not ending up getting 40.000 killed civilians on their own site against imperialistic countries.

    If you have no military or defensive capabilities like Grenada and Panama you will be easy target and looted and literally enslaved like it already happened in those countries by american gunboat dipmolacy.
    collegeboy16
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    Post  collegeboy16 Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:12 am

    Sujoy wrote:
    Against Pakistan the FGFA is not required .

    Against China the FGFA is in effective . China will respond with the Su 35 and the S 400 .

    Right now what India needs is the Super Sukhoi  . If each of these Super Sukhoi can be armed with 1 BRAHMOS or 2 NIRBHAY they can cause serious trouble for Chinese Air Defense from stand off ranges .

    In the absence of a dedicated bombers like the TU 160 India will need at least 5 squadrons of Super Sukhois .

    Also , just like China , India should fully develop it's UCAV that it supposed to undergo it's first test flight next year.

    In any case , in a conflict between China & India it's going to be the land based Cruise Missiles and TBMs that will do the talking for both sides .Air Power will come later .
    China, FGFA and ineffective in the same sentence? actually I think the FGFA would do nicely against the middle kingdoms IADS. The main designer is still russia- the undisputed master of the IADS, and I think that this experience would be incorporated in the design of PAK-FA/FGFA. Also, more likely the exported S-400 wont be a that dangerous as the native version along with the exported Su-35 so that further increases Pak-Fa's chances.

    Regarding Super Sukhoi, well you can drop the Rafales for more of them hehe.
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    Post  Vann7 Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Stupidly expensive hypersonic bombers are pointless... ICBM warheads are already hypersonic... duh!

    Really there is no hope for you..

    ICBMs cannot be used for first strike capability unless Russia deploy them in CANADA at the border of US..
    something that will be hard for Russia to get.. an strategic Bomber in the other hand is like having a piece of territory in the Air right
    next to your potential enemies capital with  a nuclear warhead or a conventional one. is called FIRST STRIKE CAPABILITY .  There is a HUGE HUGE
    different ..  between a first strike capability and an ICBM..  since Russia is far away of US. they cannot hope ever to have that
    because NATO is at Russian Borders. Russia have strategic bombers that could potentially be used for that.. but unfortunately they can be intercepted very easily by any plane. with a Very HIgh Altitude Mesosphere bomber.. flying a 120k altitude supersonic or hypersonic or even Subsonic it will be a HUGE advantage because no plane can intercept that ,only thing NATO have to counter it is the SM-3 missiles that they have in limited numbers and cannot have deployed them in all places that there is a coast. Neither you could use such missiles as a warning deterrence if a plane is on international space.. you cannot fire missiles at any plane that have not violated your airspace.
    So is all about FIRST STRIKE CAPABILITY ... not about the speed the plane flight moron.

    US is working in a Global Strike program that does exactly that.. albeit more expensive.. to have conventional weapons in space ,kinetic hypersonic rods that can be launched anywhere in the world , (once the satellite fly over that zone) and strike withing minutes a particular place.. to decapitate a leadership..  Is like having someone pointing a gun to your face.. obviously is such conditions you will not dare to do any hostile thing.


    Russia nuclear capabilities are totally obsolete in those situations. Lets says there is a coup in the white house and terrorist or army generals mentally sick get in power and he plans to destroy his nation by launching 1 nuke to Russia. With a mesosphere bomber and good intelligence in the ground you could launch conventional hypersonic missiles strikes exactly where the leadership is located in the ground with the help of spies.and decapitate the chain of command of that country.. withing 20 minutes of you locating their President. That will provoke the end of a war ,before it start and without harming any civilians . With an ICBM you cannot do that.. Not only takes hours . but is not very accurate and cannot be used to target leaders.. as soon an ICBM is detected by satellites ,any country will have hours to prepare ,go to a bunker etc.. and it will not affect the chain of command of that nation..and so will not stop a war before it start..instead is a revenge weapons that will kill millions of civilians for what their leaders actions. is not very practical weapon. Mesospehere bombers in the other hand is extremely practical.. can be used in any small or big conflict for conventional war or nuclear.

    IF first strike capability , wasn't important.. then why United States spend hundred of millions deploying missiles very close to Russia? Since US already have ICBM no? with hundreds of sumbmarines and warships no? Clearly you understand nothing , totally incapable of understanding tactics. With a first strike strategic mesosphere Bomber ,even if it is subsonic in decent numbers, Russia could do patrols ,just carrying conventional missiles (or nuclear whatever).. at any potential enemy coast.. and this will cause any President to suspend any conference if such planes are near their nation. That will be a Terrific psicological weapon. To have a plane with bombers flying above you ,or close ,that withing 10 minutes can strike your place with conventional weapons.  And prevent a war before it start..   ICBMS that russia have are only Retaliation weapons. and totally useless to decapitated the leadership of a nation ,because can't prevent a first strike or do precision attacks to avoid civilians.. etc.

    With a high altitude precision strike stealth bomber ,you can even help to easily setup a government coup ,tells x and y officers to take power as soon their leader is killed. Such actions of course will not be done lightly ,but only under unique scenarios that you are aware that you will have to go to a war with that nation.. and that you have no other choice.
    you decapitate with a strike any leader.

    Decapitating the chain of command of a terrorist government ,will for sure give you total world condemnation ,but if only 3-5 people die ,it will not provoke a nuclear war if for example you could justify your actions.. you might even be seen as a Hero by that country if most people felt repressed. with a nuclear ICBM you cannot do that. once you kill millions ,you will provoke a total destruction war against your country. DOH!  So ICBMS are virtually useless ,because is a revenge weapon and will not protect your nation if the attacker is ready to sacrifice millions of people for destroying you.  In the other hand Strategic super high altitude stealth bombers can deal with the root of the problem.. and avoid a war.. if for example you have support internationally and withing most people in that nation.

    If in pakistan for example a nuclear power, Alqaeda siege power ,(thanks to US.) then and ICBM will not be practical to protect your nation.
    The deterrence of ICBMs comes under the assumption that the people attacked cares about life. But for terrorist being killed in the name of their God is a holy thing.  The militarization of Space is the best thing Russia could do..is expensive but not more expensive than having all your nation destroyed for not having first strike capability precision bombers .
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    Post  SOC Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:59 pm

    Vann7 wrote:With an ICBM you cannot do that.. Not only takes hours . but is not very accurate and cannot be used to target leaders.. as soon an ICBM is detected by satellites ,any country will have hours to prepare ,go to a bunker etc..

    An ICBM fired from the northern US will hit a target in Russia in about 30 minutes.

    How many hours do you have to prepare?
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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:16 pm

    Even a hypersonic strategic bomber will take hours to get from Russian Airspace to US targets... and it will cost several orders of magnitude more than an ICBM to build.

    SLBMs launched from the Pacific Fleet base should hit west coast US cities in 10-15 minutes at most, a Russian SSBN tied up in port in Cuba could hit southern US cities in 5 minutes.

    You are confusing strategic weapons... which are necessary but rather better if they are not used, with conventional weapons which need to be used from time to time... ie Georgia, Chechnia, etc etc.


    No strategic weapon can replace all conventional weapons.... just the same as a good deadlock bolt on your front door can't be replaced by a dog or a gun... ideally all three would be best but you hope you never have to use the gun.

    Russia doesn't need to develop a powerful blue water navy so it can go around protecting the world from the US... they need to develop a powerful navy so the can make their own alliances and decisions and back them up if need be.

    America is about interests... Russia should be about friends and trading partners.

    Neither you could use such missiles as a warning deterrence if a plane is on international space.. you cannot fire missiles at any plane that have not violated your airspace.
    So is all about FIRST STRIKE CAPABILITY ... not about the speed the plane flight moron.

    One hypersonic bomber would not be enough for an effective first strike... and to get to US air space a hypersonic bomber from Russia pretty much has to pass over Canada... with the flight speed of the incoming bomber even an old first generation command guided SAM like the SA-1 could be launched on a ballistic path to get within a km of the hypersonic bomber and then have a large nuke warhead detonated to shoot down the threat...

    Whether it gets through or not... whether it kills all the enemy leaders or not is irrelevant because it will trigger a full retaliation of ICBMs and SLBMs etc etc on both sides... pointless.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:32 pm

    Vann7 wrote:So is all about FIRST STRIKE CAPABILITY ... not about the speed the plane flight moron.

    I didn't really read your post, but you shouldn't be using that kind of language.

    Am I missing something here?
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    Post  RTN Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:17 pm

    SOC wrote:An ICBM fired from the northern US will hit a target in Russia in about 30 minutes.

    How many hours do you have to prepare?

    An ICBM / SLBM fired from  any location within Continental US can hit a target anywhere in the world within 30 mins if the missile follows a path that takes it over the North Pole and  Russia . Obviously this path will not be followed .

    Therefore , the ICBM/SLBM will follow a low-earth orbit back over the South Pole. In this case it will take the missile at least 60 mins to hit a target .
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:34 pm

    RTN wrote:
    An ICBM / SLBM fired from  any location within Continental US can hit a target anywhere in the world within 30 mins if the missile follows a path that takes it over the North Pole and  Russia . Obviously this path will not be followed .

    Therefore , the ICBM/SLBM will follow a low-earth orbit back over the South Pole. In this case it will take the missile at least 60 mins to hit a target .

    1- Your post is "off-topic".

    2- How did you come up with what you wrote? Describe the process.
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:41 pm

    RTN wrote:Therefore , the ICBM/SLBM will follow a low-earth orbit back over the South Pole. In this case it will take the missile at least 60 mins to hit a target .

    This tactic is prohibited under SALT II .
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    Post  Indian Flanker Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:54 pm

    @ Vann7

    Garry is a far more knowledgeable person than you and me, so calling him "moron" is not only being disrespectful but also flat out asinine.

    Also disrespecting a staff member is against rules of this forum. Garry is a gentleman in an actual sense, but please don't cross the limits!( remember "patience runs thin")

    collegeboy16 wrote:China, FGFA and ineffective in the same sentence? actually I think the FGFA would do nicely against the middle kingdoms IADS. The main designer is still russia- the undisputed master of the IADS, and I think that this experience would be incorporated in the design of PAK-FA/FGFA. Also, more likely the exported S-400 wont be a that dangerous as the native version along with the exported Su-35 so that further increases Pak-Fa's chances.
    I agree. FGFA will have very good SEAD/DEAD mission capabilities. Russians will use all their experience to make this bird a world-beater.

    Also if there is a naval version in the future, then Indian navy can use it perfectly to destroy the Chinese land plus sea targets. It should be a game-changer, IMO.

    Regarding Super Sukhoi, well you can drop the Rafales for more of them hehe.
    Yeah, go tell that to the IAF guys, who are completely obsessed over this French birdie, lol.
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:27 pm

    Vann7 wrote:So is all about FIRST STRIKE CAPABILITY ... not about the speed the plane flight moron.

    GarryB is NOT a moron . Forum members have very profound respect for GarryB because of his impressive knowledge.

    You see , Respect is an extremely rare commodity and as such is hard earned. Contempt is available in abundance and can be doled out in generous portions.

    You're submerged in the latter for reasons entirely of your own making.

    Indian Flanker wrote:Yeah, go tell that to the IAF guys, who are completely obsessed over this French birdie, lol.

    The fault lies squarely with DRDO and HAL . Had they been able to come up with the LCA by 2005 there would have been no need for the MMRCA . However, even after slogging it out for over 20 years they could not come up with even a decent engine . An aircraft is a bridge too far.
    GarryB
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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 24 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:51 am

    An ICBM / SLBM fired from any location within Continental US can hit a target anywhere in the world within 30 mins if the missile follows a path that takes it over the North Pole and Russia . Obviously this path will not be followed .

    Why would they not follow the shortest route?

    Satellite sensors would detect a US launch of ICBMs at launch... if they send the missiles over the south pole the missiles wont have the range to hit targets in Northern Russia and the extra few hours warning they get will mean their launch of an attack over the North Pole will arrive well before the US attack arrives, so lots of things can be moved to safety and defences prepared.

    there would be no benefit at all to lunching a first strike attack via the south pole for the US.

    An EMP attack might be viable but it does not make sense to launch all ICBMs via the South Pole as Russian radars face all directions... not just north like US radars in Greenland and Thule and Fyingdales.

    Therefore , the ICBM/SLBM will follow a low-earth orbit back over the South Pole. In this case it will take the missile at least 60 mins to hit a target .

    I doubt US ICBMs have the flight range to go over the South Pole to hit targets in Russia and low earth orbit runs the risk of running in to satellite debris.

    The fault lies squarely with DRDO and HAL . Had they been able to come up with the LCA by 2005 there would have been no need for the MMRCA . However, even after slogging it out for over 20 years they could not come up with even a decent engine . An aircraft is a bridge too far.

    To be fair making a modern capable aircraft engine is the key to a good aircraft only a small handful of countries can make them...

    next to your potential enemies capital with a nuclear warhead or a conventional one. is called FIRST STRIKE CAPABILITY . There is a HUGE HUGE...

    Why does Russia need a first strike capability against the US?

    What makes you think the US will see an ICBM coming but wont see a hypersonic bomber coming?

    you cannot fire missiles at any plane that have not violated your airspace.

    Have you ignored all the pre emptive self defence BS coming from the US over the last 20 odd years?

    Second do you think US air defence missiles and aircraft can't intercept hypersonic bombers A because there are none so there is no reason to, or B because they want Russia to spend a small fortune on technology it doesn't need to give it a capability it doesn't need.

    It is the US that wants the ability to bomb places anywhere around the world at a few hours notice... not Russia.

    Russia developing such technology would be an American dream... they can then justify it themselves and blame the Russians for forcing them to do the same... of course only the US will actually use it.

    So is all about FIRST STRIKE CAPABILITY ... not about the speed the plane flight moron.

    So a plane flying at mach 7 or 8 at 120K Metres or so flying directly towards the US will be totally safe till it reaches the 12 mile sea border... wont it have to cross canada first?

    Do you think the ICBM payload will not be engaged till it reaches the same border?

    Do you think a massive ICBM launch that is a first strike could be stopped but a dozen hypersonic bombers will be safe?

    Would a moron hold your position despite these questions I am asking?

    US is working in a Global Strike program that does exactly that.. albeit more expensive.. to have conventional weapons in space ,kinetic hypersonic rods that can be launched anywhere in the world , (once the satellite fly over that zone) and strike withing minutes a particular place.. to decapitate a leadership.. Is like having someone pointing a gun to your face.. obviously is such conditions you will not dare to do any hostile thing.

    They have always had satellites directing their attacks this century, do you think a UCAV flying at 4,000m with a Hellfire missile that will reach a ground target in about 15-20 seconds would be more or less effective than these Knobs from God?

    Hypersonic is only about mach 7-8 how many bombers do you actually think they will deploy?

    Even at mach 25 it take an ICBM 30 minutes to get to the US... at a quarter of that speed how long do you think these knobs from God will take?

    What if the target likes to carry an umbrella... from near space which umbrella is the target under?

    I realise there is a lot of sales marketing around this US concept but you have to ask yourself how often both the US leader and the vice president will be wandering around outside so they can be killed so easily?

    they can't build a bomb with continuous laser guidance to hit an area less than about 3m square but you believe they can make a rod hit someone on the head from near space?

    Mesospehere bombers in the other hand is extremely practical.. can be used in any small or big conflict for conventional war or nuclear.

    What about under ground bombers?

    If the US decides to launch one nuke at Russia to start a world war... how would killing the president stop that?

    Why would they send only one missile when they can launch them all while they still can?

    By the time Russia knew they were launching a missile it would be too late because the missile would be launched and no amount of killing any generals will stop that missile.

    America wants to be able to kill any one around the world that stands in their way.
    this is just an extension of that.

    Once they have hypersonic bombers Russia will likely adapt a model of their S-400 or S-500 to shoot those bombers down and start selling them to China and India and giving a few to Cuba and all of a sudden they wont be so special any more.

    they might make some hypersonic bombers themselves but hopefully they will use the technology to create space planes and civilian airliners that can move rather faster.

    BTW thanks for the support guys...
    mig7
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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 24 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  mig7 Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:55 am

    //////////////////

    Sorry, i can not open a new post

    /////////////////

    Greetings, what are the general requirements and requirements for entering the Russian air force.
    Also taking into account those who do not have Russian citizenship.

    Merci Wink
    avatar
    Vann7


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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 24 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Vann7 Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:06 am

    Sujoy wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:So is all about FIRST STRIKE CAPABILITY ... not about the speed the plane flight moron.

    GarryB is NOT a moron .  

    Ignorant? Not aware of all the facts?

    Memory and common sense are not the same thing.
    you could memorize an entire encyclopedia or weapons and arms.. but how those can be used in practice in a real war ,
    understanding about geopolitics and tactics..is totally different.
    how to transfer his knowledge to real actual practice he is seriously lacking.  And my names calling is simply
    because he behave as if he knows what he is talking about ,even when he is not. he have an obsession to proof he is right ,even
    in the times that he is not.. So that kind of aptitude of trying to proof your right even when you know your are wrong..  So will not bother to argue against with him again.. because learned is pointless exercise to argue with him after for long.

    he is clearly wrong ,First Strike capability is everything in a war specially when both nations are nuclear powers. Not about how many ICBM you have or if they are super sonic or hypersonic..Everytime an ICBM is launched in the planet.. Automatically all satellites in the world detect it ,so the surprise effect is totally lost.. with a Strategic stealth mesosphere Bomber you could launch a strike in no time without any warning. and decapitate any nation government overnight and avoid a much worse war.. under certain scenarios .but will leave him with his ideas ,he is free to believe whatever he wants.. US armed forces is working with their Global Strike conventional program..and their SR-72 for nothing.. in any case ..the conversation is about Pak-Fa.. no more discussion about this ..  No


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total

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