New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

caveat emptor wrote:Not big words, just objective assessment. We, at least, can blaim 10 years of civil war and sanctions to where we are atm. You, on the other hand, had over 30 years of calm amd 15 years of that in EU and nothing much to show for it. Truly pathetic.
Nothing personal. I actually like Bulgarians and have friends who are Bulgarians.
Unfortunately, our countries will be put between rock and hard place and basically sacrificed in a case of bigger war. Akin to Ukraine today.

Yes, corruption and neoliberalism has caused large amount of porverty. Bulgaria has been a resource colony for 600 years.Slave colony for the turks, agricultural for the russians and germans, and cheap labor for the EU
If serbia had the coastline of montenegro, lavrov could visit. He couldve bypassed greece. How pathetic is it that you guys lost your coastline in 2006 when the serbian region of cherna gora wasn't brainwashed to be self hating and conquered , unlike the macedonian region of bulgaria or the ukraine.

In any case Rogozin certainly didn't ilicit any sympathy in bulgaria. His tweets are retarded and counterproductive. They're not trolling, they're just scream impotent rage about stuff hes clearly not qualified to talk about.

Rogozin missed a good chance to shut up like he always has

Nothing new. I don't know why Moscow tolerates him; unlike the late Zhirinovsky he has no entertainment value, he's just an abrasive loudmouth.

And yeah trolling, whoppodie-do. Let's throw away the efforts of diplomacy, residual historical sympathy, etc.. for the sake of some random threats, hah hah hah that will show em

limb wrote:Apparently Rogozin threatened Bulgaria, Montenegro and Romania with the sarmat for not letting lavrov through their airspace.

https://twitter.com/Rogozin/status/1533530946992951296?t=lsSwYmIQpYogniy75_othQ&s=19

Bulgarians are ridiculing Russia about this, claiming that Russia is pathetic for having only missiles to threaten with and they think Rogozin is a fat pompous retard who's throwing a tantrum because he thinks he's entitled to Bulgarian airspace.

Actually, Rogozin writes that "Sarmat", if necessary, will not need permission to fly from Montenegro, Bulgaria and someone else. If someone regarded this as a threat to the listed countries, then he is an idiot.

Russia, through officials, is already directly saying that the situation has reached the point where nuclear missiles are about to start flying, and are you happy that some morons call Russia pathetic?
Has the level of intelligence on Earth dropped so much while I was away?

Which has nothing to do with diplomacy. Did Shoigu threaten these countries with a taste of calibration?

What does closing your airspace to a diplomat from one country going to your neighbour have to do with diplomacy?

A hostile action got a hostile reaction...

Shoigu controls those Calibrs... it would not be appropriate for him to make threats.

Big words for someone from a country which lost Montenegro to NATO despite it not being a real ethnicity. Speaking of Montenegro, what does it say about them, literally being terror bombed by NATO, and then yapping along with the butthurt belt 16 years later?

Even the best trained well behaved dog is not the same when running with a pack of wild angry dogs.

In any case Rogozin certainly didn't ilicit any sympathy in bulgaria.

I think his comment was meant to convey the message... **** Bulgaria... and I think he got that across...

In the scheme of things it does not really matter... Russia is going to complete its mission in the former Ukraine and then I suspect all ties with the west will be cut, so what Bulgarians think of Russia wont mean very much at all.

His tweets are retarded and counterproductive. They're not trolling, they're just scream impotent rage about stuff hes clearly not qualified to talk about.

Agreed... but he is a manager and not a diplomat, so why not vent his view... that is what that social media forum is about... or is he not allowed to?

Will he be cancelled too?

Rogozin missed a good chance to shut up like he always has

Nothing new. I don't know why Moscow tolerates him; unlike the late Zhirinovsky he has no entertainment value, he's just an abrasive loudmouth.

He has every right to post his view on line.... it is Telegram... not Facebook or Twitter where he needs permission from Washington...

And yeah trolling, whoppodie-do. Let's throw away the efforts of diplomacy, residual historical sympathy, etc.. for the sake of some random threats, hah hah hah that will show em

Diplomacy? When has Russia had proper diplomatic relations with the west where they got any respect at all?

That ship has sailed...

Actually, Rogozin writes that "Sarmat", if necessary, will not need permission to fly from Montenegro, Bulgaria and someone else. If someone regarded this as a threat to the listed countries, then he is an idiot.

So his comment is that things operating in space don't need permission to fly over soverign territory... well that actually makes sense... but haters gonna hate...

Russia, through officials, is already directly saying that the situation has reached the point where nuclear missiles are about to start flying, and are you happy that some morons call Russia pathetic?
Has the level of intelligence on Earth dropped so much while I was away?

Western politicians have already been demanding Putin be tried as a war criminal and put in a western jail so how far away is nuclear war?

Would love to see them try....

The US has a law on their books that allows US soldiers to use any force deemed necessary to free any American citizen held in the Hague international courts... but it is Russia that is the problem...

flamming_python wrote:Rogozin missed a good chance to shut up like he always has

Nothing new. I don't know why Moscow tolerates him; unlike the late Zhirinovsky he has no entertainment value, he's just an abrasive loudmouth.

And yeah trolling, whoppodie-do. Let's throw away the efforts of diplomacy, residual historical sympathy, etc.. for the sake of some random threats, hah hah hah that will show em

Zhirinovsky did also had a very good understanding and knowledge of history of Russia and European countries and was capable of analyzing why certain events happened.

Rogozin is just warming up a seat and has little to nothing done to be on that seat. Especially during these times it is very important to have people with a clue and initiative to help the situation.
Despite my mistrust for people like Zhirinovsky, I assume he would have done 1000 more for Russia than people like Rogozin.

GarryB wrote:

His tweets are retarded and counterproductive. They're not trolling, they're just scream impotent rage about stuff hes clearly not qualified to talk about.

Agreed... but he is a manager and not a diplomat, so why not vent his view... that is what that social media forum is about... or is he not allowed to?

Will he be cancelled too?

My assumption is, that all these recent tweets are a product of the new Russia and Russian attitude on world stage and especially towards unfriendly countries will be.

They are testing the waters with statements like this and they are experiencing overwhelmingly positive response which will set course to a dominant Russia on the globe.

The time of calling everyone "partner" despite having attempts to overthrow the leadership, sell out the country and orchestrate false flags to coin the leader as a sociopath and murderer who loves chemical weapons unpunished is not going to be the future of Russia.

I will say it again, I do not trust people like Medvedev, but even if he puts on the face of a hardliner it is what Russia will show to the world.
The situation of one rules the world and especially the attempts of jeopardizing Russia's security or sphere of influence will not be dealt reactionary.
Putin was the phase of bringing Russia back on it's feed and had several phases of purging from the 5th columnists of Yelzin's era and his own era.
By the West's actions Russia has today less 5th columnists than yesterday and as the days passes they will be less tolerated by Russian society and russian speakers all over the world.

Putin initiated phases of preparations for financial and economical autonomy to the degree it is possible. Militarization and war preparations have been the guarantor to buy time for more preparations and solidifying Russia's position as a participant in geopolitics. With formations of BRICS and economical markets to the east it has good chance to guarantee its own security towards countries like China.

The time of reactionary politics of events has been a necessity but will not be the future of Russia.

All these actions by the leadership or elements of the leadership are a sign to the people what they will have to expect from the era after Putin.

Mark my word, the West will look back and re-write history to be closer to what it really is just to repair relationships to Russia and China after the hegemonic abusive Slave-owner is no more.

Werewolf wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Rogozin missed a good chance to shut up like he always has

Nothing new. I don't know why Moscow tolerates him; unlike the late Zhirinovsky he has no entertainment value, he's just an abrasive loudmouth.

And yeah trolling, whoppodie-do. Let's throw away the efforts of diplomacy, residual historical sympathy, etc.. for the sake of some random threats, hah hah hah that will show em

Zhirinovsky did also had a very good understanding and knowledge of history of Russia and European countries and was capable of analyzing why certain events happened.

Rogozin is just warming up  a seat and has little to nothing done to be on that seat. Especially during these times it is very important to have people with a clue and initiative to help the situation.
Despite my mistrust for people like Zhirinovsky, I assume he would have done 1000 more for Russia than people like Rogozin.

Rogozin is a professional troll and Kremlin political hitman

In the 90s, when ultra-nationalist ideology was gaining popularity in Russia, Rogozin had the job of creating a spoiler nationalist party that stole the vote from the anti-Kremlin nationalists. Sort of like Zhirinovsky with his LDPR party.

And Rogozin is certainly competent at what he does, but again, where Zhirinovsky had humour and the ability to make convince people, Rogozin just comes across as a 10-year old.
So yeah, not sure what niche he's fulfilling right now, making comments about ICBMs. Yeah okay, fk everybody, but what do such statements achieve? Nothing more than what his statements have achieved for Roscosmos.

I agree with what you are saying werewolf, but I don't think Russia is going to turn into the west or the US.

They will cooperate with the west but they will not approach the west for that cooperation... which means I think, that there is not going to be a lot of cooperation or communication with the west... Russia wont be fighting the west... they will ignore it most of the time and any attacks by the west will be responded to after thought has been given to how to make it effective, rather than a knee jerk copycat response which was traditional.

In the past if they kicked out 4 Russian diplomats the Russians kicked out 4 of theirs... hopefully moving forward they will kick out 8 or 12... four in response for the four the other side kicked out for no good reason and the same again or double a punishment for this persecution of Russia who is not doing anything to them to warrant such actions.

I would say smaller hostile countries like Finland and Sweden... just close embassies in both countries.

The west is broken and its solutions continue to damage itself rather than problems being admitted and solutions sought...

Russia instead is going to continue being Russia and instead of wasting time with the west there is a whole world of customers out there wanting to trade... free and fair trade with no strings or nooses attached.

Yes, the hate directed at Russia for US pressure to shoot themselves in the foot to try to damage Russia is as amusing as it is sad.

The west is not democratic... not while they ignore their own interests and just do what the US demands.

GarryB wrote:Precision means you can get the same job done with less power... to the degree that in 1985 if the Soviet Union wanted to destroy a factory from 1,000km away with a cruise missile their only option would be a nuclear warhead. These days they have the precision and accuracy to use a HE equipped missile to do the same thing.... obviously ammo dumps or fuel dumps require less missiles than an HQ or Barracks might of course.

Precision with navigation and targeting as well as improvements in C4IRSTAR means you can find the targets too... having the precision means nothing if you don't know where the targets are.

With the exception of Russia, China, U.S.A (and probably Australia) none of the other countries that possess IRBM, ICBM, SLBMs have test ranges in excess of 5,000 km.

North Korea, Pakistan, India, Iran states that they have land based ballistic missiles with ranges of 3000 km or 4000 km and above, but do note that they are not certain about how far the missile would fly leave alone how accurate they are.

In the absence of land mass these countries are know to test their long range ballistic missiles by firing them at the sea. So they have no way to ascertain whether their BMS are capable of even flying for 3000 km, 4000 km. Consequently they have no way to ascertain whether their BMs are capable of hitting a target at the end of their flight range.

This is all very true, but perhaps the ballistic and cruise missile weapon tests are just for show... Iran shows it can make aircraft, and of course it can buy or lease aircraft too so putting a nuclear weapon on various civilian airliners and cargo ships and flying or sailing them to their destinations and then having them all positioned at once and then setting them all off at once could make up for a lack of missile range or accuracy... accuracy is not so critical when the payload is nuclear and the targets are population centres rather than specific hardened military targets.

Russia is very unlikely to strike first so hitting ICBM fields that are now empty is simply a waste of missiles, so you would say you are after the enemies population... hit their major population centres and all their resources...

That is why weapons like Thunderbird and Poseidon make sense... the gifts that keep on giving that ensures the enemy continues to be hit even after we are dead...

Combat Approved videos with English subs on the Sarmat and Avangard >>

GarryB wrote:This is all very true

I actually doubt that. My logic is:

Sarmatian has an operational range of 18,000 km
Topol-M has an operation range of 11,000 km
LGM-30 Minuteman has an operational range of 14,000 km
DF-41 has an operational range of 15,000 km


If it is indeed true that India, Iran, North Korea, Pakistan are not 100% certain if their ballistic missiles that have a range of 4000 km - 5000 km can actually travel that far because they do not have massive test sites then even Russia, China or US  despite their massive territory cannot guarantee that their ICBMs can actually travel 10,000 km - 15,000 km because no country including Russia have such test sites.

For instance, how can a Sarmatian be tested for an operational range of 18,000 km? It has never flown over land only. Sarmatian too was fired into the sea. U.S and China did the same with their ICBMs.

The North Korean Hwasong-14 ICBM is operational and has a range of about 10,500km. The Hwasong-15 ICBM is currently under development and has a range of up to 13,000km.

If it is indeed true that India, Iran, North Korea, Pakistan are not 100% certain if their ballistic missiles that have a range of 4000 km - 5000 km can actually travel that far because they do not have massive test sites then even Russia, China or US despite their massive territory cannot guarantee that their ICBMs can actually travel 10,000 km - 15,000 km because no country including Russia have such test sites.

Any country that can put a satellite into orbit can hit any point on the globe.

Having a shooting range limited to 20m does not mean you can't develop long range accurate rifles.

The range of missiles increases over time mainly because new materials make structure lighter, rocket propellent more powerful, engine designs more powerful and more efficient and also warhead weights get lighter as their designs get more modern and efficient.

You can test an 18,000km range rocket by loading the fuel tanks to quarter full and also putting an extra heavy payload on board... which together might lead to a flight range that is only a few thousand kms... but based on the reduced fuel weight and increased payload weight you could then calculate its expected range with full fuel load and normal payload... and indeed you could use the same method to calculate what its actual flight range is with quarter fuel and heavy payload so you can measure the results of the test and see how accurate your calculations are. Do another test with heavy payload and half tanks fuel and if your numbers match the distance reached then you know your calculations are an accurate model of the weapon so you can then go quarter tanks and normal payload and test that with a real launch and if your calculations predict its range with any accuracy then you can safely assume your full tanks normal payload range is accurate too... without needing a full test.

And actually with an 18,000km range you should be able to increase the payload and use the missile to launch satellites into orbit while testing it as a weapon based on the satellite weights you use.

owais.usmani wrote:

Russia is completing the rearmament of the Strategic Missile Forces! The outdated missile "Voevoda", which was made in cooperation with the Ukrainian "Yuzhmash" in Soviet times, is being replaced by the newest strategic complex #Sarmat.

The video says that the rearmament for new complexes should take place in the next two years. Taking into account the need for several more test launches, it turns out that the production capacities of the Makeev GRC allow producing 20-25 "Sarmats" per year.

That sounds a bit unrealistic as a production rate.
What is way more likely is that they have been manufacturing rocket parts for quite some time already.
From what I heard the rocket has been designed for a long time and most of the issues were with the guidance system.

lancelot wrote:That sounds a bit unrealistic as a production rate.
What is way more likely is that they have been manufacturing rocket parts for quite some time already.
From what I heard the rocket has been designed for a long time and most of the issues were with the guidance system.

Nothing unreal here. Just think that from 1970 to 1990, the USSR annually produced more than 95 space launches annually, and the stocks of manufactured rockets were spent until the beginning of 2010.
The Sarmat is smaller than the Soyuz rocket and is obviously easier to manufacture because of its design.

Sure. Historically such large volume rocket production was done. Even larger in WW2 when the Germans made thousands of V2 rockets a year. But in modern times not really. I am not saying it is impossible to do but hard to justify with current production rates. Just think about it, producing all of the rockets in two years, you are basically making a production line and training people for a two year program. This is hugely expensive. And what to do with the facilities afterwards? From what I know they used to make the R-29 SLBM but that is going away once the Borei replaces the Delta IV. Will they just be kept for manufacturing hypergolic upper stages?

Back then those were strategic programs and a huge amount of total GDP was spent on such programs.

lancelot wrote:And what to do with the facilities afterwards?

Continue the manufacture.

lancelot wrote:Sure. Historically such large volume rocket production was done. Even larger in WW2 when the Germans made thousands of V2 rockets a year. But in modern times not really. I am not saying it is impossible to do but hard to justify with current production rates. Just think about it, producing all of the rockets in two years, you are basically making a production line and training people for a two year program. This is hugely expensive. And what to do with the facilities afterwards? From what I know they used to make the R-29 SLBM but that is going away once the Borei replaces the Delta IV. Will they just be kept for manufacturing hypergolic upper stages?

Back then those were strategic programs and a huge amount of total GDP was spent on such programs.

in addition to the approximately 50 units required for testing and re-equipping missile divisions with new equipment, some more stock of these missiles will be needed. So 50 turns into 70 or 80, which gives up to 4 years of full production workload. In addition, you can reduce production efforts when you reach the required level of saturation of troops with new equipment, for example, from 20 to 5 units per year - then your production lines will be loaded for the entire cycle of operation of the missile complex - that is, for the next 40-50 years