The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

THose look like very professional soldiers .what kind of manpads are those?

They are from the Igla and Strela-2M family. The Iglas shown are without the grip-stock!

Talking about WW3.. There is no chance for anyone to win it, but Russia is too vulnerable and doesn't have numerical or technological advantage. Nah, too much to loose over such shit country like Ukraine. 

"pedal" in polish language describes person who is homosexually oriented.

Haha, we have same saying too. Pedal=pedik.

It seems to me.. that the IRAQ war ,invasion of ISIL on one city of IRAQ , was created by the US and NATO allies to deviate the
world attention from the new Operation Kiev was planning in the eastern Ukraine ,to literary turn away all the world attention from the ukraine war . The White House official Media.. CNN and most NATO popular propaganda ,like BBC ,France 24 are only reporting about IRAQ and Brazil and nothing about Ukraine.

Still don't know why i feel ,this war is far from over ,that the Kiev operations are doomed to fail.. Ukraine will disband ,mark my words ,
with Russia invading or not. you cannot maintain the control of a Nation without electricity , and everyone without a job. Police and the army
will rebel first and Donetsk and Lugansk republics will be far from the problems of kiev.. A second Maidanut revolution will happen ,when they do not see their streets turning into Gold for having the EU association agreement.

Regular wrote:Talking about WW3.. There is no chance for anyone to win it, but Russia is too vulnerable and doesn't have numerical or technological advantage. Nah, too much to loose over such shit country like Ukraine. 

"pedal" in polish language describes person who is homosexually oriented.

Haha, we have same saying too. Pedal=pedik.

Vulnerable in which sense?  If they were, they would have been attacked long ago.

Edit: sorry, angry man I can be.

Point is, they (Russians, like Americans) have been preparing for a third world war for so long. To say they are vulnerable is a joke. in the end, all sides are vulnerable as both sides would end up as craters. What Russia has as an advantage is its not so densely populated areas and underground subway systems that are designed to accommodate a large population if in case of a nuclear strike, something that US does not have. Russia has the advantage of having many autonomous systems like tactical nukes and ICBM's that would be more than enough. I agree, they are nowhere near what they used to be, but in the end, what they have, can be more than enough for them in terms of defending themselves, and making it a nightmare for their enemy.

sepheronx wrote:

Regular wrote:Talking about WW3.. There is no chance for anyone to win it, but Russia is too vulnerable and doesn't have numerical or technological advantage. Nah, too much to loose over such shit country like Ukraine. 

"pedal" in polish language describes person who is homosexually oriented.

Haha, we have same saying too. Pedal=pedik.

Vulnerable in which sense?  If they were, they would have been attacked long ago.

If you have any proof, please share it.  Other than that, regular crap from Regular.

Of course, Regular can never have any proof for his assertion, because his assertion is incorrect.

(Sarcasm) Nahhh... Russia is 100% safe from strategic nuclear attack because they have an ABM system... (/sarcasm)

...and why should they be... after all Bikini Atoll and the Marshall Islands aren't even safe...respect to Bikini Atoll... the Atoll that the skimpy beachware was named after...

GarryB wrote:(Sarcasm) Nahhh... Russia is 100% safe from strategic nuclear attack because they have an ABM system... (/sarcasm)

...and why should they be... after all Bikini Atoll and the Marshall Islands aren't even safe...respect to Bikini Atoll... the Atoll that the skimpy beachware was named after...

Garry,

Did you observe those tests at the Bikini Atoll and the Marshall Islands?

I am not referring to the tests involving the skimpy beachware; I know that beachware can be a potent weapon.

Wow ..just wow..
What i just read is stunning...
Have you seen how in TV magicians performs acts of magic ,with one hand but keep another hidden ,so you don't see
the real Trick.. ?  Well folks.. Its appears a proxy world war 3 have began..but not in UKRAINE ..but in IRAQ..
VOltaire NET.. even though they have been at times wrong ,they have done many good Hits ..
They are saying NATO is attacking IRAQ...   ISIL = NATO private military army ,they are well armed ,trained by israel and well equipped , they even have pilots ,They are lead by Israel apparently but also France ,UK ,and US  and they enter through TUrkey or from their base in Syria ,that also came from Turkey and IRAQ should NOT allow United States or any NATO country to "Help " them because what they will do is to help ISIL to take more territory in IRAQ.. their Numbers are estimated to be in the 60,000. They are NATO mercenaries from European Nations, and probably many of them are not even JIhadist.. just soldiers of fortune. They have captured by "coincidence" LOTS of American weapons , APCs ,perhaps Tanks and equipment and their logistics provided by NATO and communications too.  
Their goal is the split of IRAQ in 3 parts and the creation of Kurdistan..basically get all the Oil fields under one single Territory a Kurdish Puppet NATO controlled territoryand steal all the Oil Fields of IRAQ ,Syria and with luck take parts of IRAN.

The Ukraine war in the east.. the luring of Russia into Ukraine could be a distraction.. So Russia does not sabotage NATO invasion of IRAQ
,where their troops operate under the name of ISIL and keep Russia Busy fighting Ukrainians.  Of course Ukraine is also part of the price..
make no mistake , but the speed at which ISIL took half of IRAQ in just 3 days cannot be possible by simple terrorist with RPGs.. They don't bother looting civilians or raping womens.. they want to conquer the capital fast before IRAN or Russia sabotage their plans.

the Report is on several languages you can pick the language under the date .. but the English version is not ready yet.. it will be.. there is several languages..  I think this one is the Russian version..

http://www.voltairenet.org/article184302.html

and here is one of the ways NATO plans to partition the middle east..




However the map is not set in Stone could have changed ,specially Turkey side for being a loyal NATO member.
Im sure that Russia is aware of what is happening in IRAQ ,that full participation of NATO in a near direct scale invasion using private mercenaries and even NATO armored vehicles.. And IRAQ should not allow any NATO nation to enter its country to "Help".
The president Maliki is being attacked by NATO and contrary to Syria they are well trained NATO special forces and well equipped ,and right now only Syria is helping with its Mig 29 planes and others . albeit they have not finished to clear all the terrorist in their own side either..
This ladies and gentlemens probably is the beguining of world war 3..  and the Ukraine conflict even though it is a target too , have been a distraction to keep Busy Russia looking to the wrong side.   If they create Kurdistan,NATO will officially will have an Ukraine in the middle east ,that is a Failed Nation they absolutely do not care ,to use a battle field to attack IRAN but also Syria that is a failed country that NATO can arm to the teeth with all kind of weapons and later Restart again the Syrian war but now they fully armed by NATO "in a legitimate way" and under the protection of NATO.. means that NATO can use their own army to defend them.  

So this is probably the reason why the CSTO leader told the world is on the eve of an Open World Confrontation. Because they already know the injustice they are doing to IRAQ.  I knew always NATO wanted to break not only Syria ,IRAQ and IRAN ,all of them for not being puppet states of US and Israel. What is new to me.. is the level of participation of NATO ,that was so direct ,the report claims that contrary to Syria that they used any loser who could scream Alahh wakbar and gave them weapons ..with a few proffessionals from time to time..
The war in IRAQ is apparently NATO without uniforms.. and many not even are Jihadist ,but special forces from private military groups.
This is one of the reason they don't scream much in their uploaded videos ,they are not real muslins . but NATO private mercenaries a significant part of them..

Vann7 wrote:
Wow ..just wow..
What i just read is stunning...
Have you seen how in TV magicians performs acts of magic ,with one hand but keep another hidden ,so you don't see
the real Trick.. ?  Well folks.. Its appears a proxy world war 3 have began..but not in UKRAINE ..but in IRAQ..
VOltaire NET.. even though they have been at times wrong ,they have done many good Hits ..
They are saying NATO is attacking IRAQ...   ISIL = NATO private military army ,they are well armed ,trained by israel and well equipped , they even have pilots ,They are lead by Israel apparently but also France ,UK ,and US  and they enter through TUrkey or from their base in Syria ,that also came from Turkey and IRAQ should NOT allow United States or any NATO country to "Help " them because what they will do is to help ISIL to take more territory in IRAQ.. their Numbers are estimated to be in the 60,000. They are NATO mercenaries from European Nations, and probably many of them are not even JIhadist.. just soldiers of fortune. They have captured by "coincidence" LOTS of American weapons , APCs ,perhaps Tanks and equipment and their logistics provided by NATO and communications too.  
Their goal is the split of IRAQ in 3 parts and the creation of Kurdistan..basically get all the Oil fields under one single Territory a Kurdish Puppet NATO controlled territoryand steal all the Oil Fields of IRAQ ,Syria and with luck take parts of IRAN.

The Ukraine war in the east.. the luring of Russia into Ukraine could be a distraction.. So Russia does not sabotage NATO invasion of IRAQ
,where their troops operate under the name of ISIL and keep Russia Busy fighting Ukrainians.  Of course Ukraine is also part of the price..
make no mistake , but the speed at which ISIL took half of IRAQ in just 3 days cannot be possible by simple terrorist with RPGs.. They don't bother looting civilians or raping womens.. they want to conquer the capital fast before IRAN or Russia sabotage their plans.

the Report is on several languages you can pick the language under the date .. but the English version is not ready yet.. it will be.. there is several languages..  I think this one is the Russian version..

http://www.voltairenet.org/article184302.html

Im sure that Russia is aware of what is happening in IRAQ ,that full participation of NATO in a near direct scale invasion using private mercenaries and even NATO armored vehicles.. And IRAQ should not allow any NATO nation to enter its country to "Help".
The president Maliki is being attacked by NATO and contrary to Syria they are well trained NATO special forces and well equipped ,and right now only Syria is helping with its Mig 29 planes and others . albeit they have not finished to clear all the terrorist in their own side either..
This ladies and gentlemens probably is the beguining of world war 3..  and the Ukraine conflict even though it is a target too , have been a distraction to keep Busy Russia looking to the wrong side.   If they create Kurdistan,NATO will officially will have an Ukraine in the middle east ,that is a Failed Nation they absolutely do not care ,to use a battle field to attack IRAN but also Syria that is a failed country that NATO can arm to the teeth with all kind of weapons and later Restart again the Syrian war but now they fully armed by NATO "in a legitimate way" and under the protection of NATO.. means that NATO can use their own army to defend them.  

So this is probably the reason why the CSTO leader told the world is on the eve of an Open World Confrontation. Because they already know What NATO is doing to IRAQ.

Obviously you don't read other people's posts.

Also there is an Iraq thread. May be we should start a "world war" thread, or do we have one already?

[quote="Morpheus Eberhardt"]

Vann7 wrote:
Obviously you don't read other people's posts.

Also there is an Iraq thread. May be we should start a "world war" thread, or do we have one already?

It is relevant to Ukraine.. because the weapons of ISIL are all provided by Ukraine   
The NeoNazis in Ukraine will be the official Weapons manufacturers of  NATO terrorist proxy wars against Russia and its
allies in the world. And Turkey is the  Alqaeda and ISIL Command Center of their Operations in the middle east..
The world war began already by NATO , with Syria was a soft war ,with IRAQ is a direct one..but undercover.. And for sure
Russia and its allies is aware of that.. NATO private contractors are leading the terrorist fight against IRAQ ..to partition the country and will not be surprising if Israel special forces are also there.

Ukraine's Poroshenko stops military cooperation with Russia
Experts say halting military cooperation between the two countries would affect 79 Ukrainian and 859 Russian defense firms

TASS wrote:KIEV, June 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has banned military cooperation with Russia in a move which experts said would affect 79 Ukrainian and 859 Russian defense firms.
Parliament-appointed First Deputy Prime Minister Vitaly Yarema told ICTV on Monday evening that Poroshenko issued the order at a session of the Council of National Security and Defense earlier in the day. "From that day on, we practically ceased any cooperation in the military-industrial sphere with the Russian Federation," he said.
Yarema reminded that earlier parliament-appointed Verkhovna Rada Speaker Oleksadnr Turchynov had signed the decree ordering to stop military cooperation with Russia and supplies of weapons to Russia. However, the document allowed cooperation in the production of dual-purpose goods such as helicopter engines.

Russia should reply in kind, and ban just about all products from Ukraine, but bear in mind not to hurt the Rusophile population.
Just ban everything that comes from the west of the country, and from oligarchs' companies (which is...well...almost everything).
Targeted sanctions, similar to what the west introduced on Russia, to SERIOUSLY hurt the oligarchs. See how much of their substandard sh/t their 'Erupean' and American sponsors are willing to import...

macedonian wrote:
Russia should reply in kind, and ban just about all products from Ukraine, but bear in mind not to hurt the Rusophile population.
Just ban everything that comes from the west of the country, and from oligarchs' companies (which is...well...almost everything).
Targeted sanctions, similar to what the west introduced on Russia, to SERIOUSLY hurt the oligarchs. See how much of their substandard sh/t their 'Erupean' and American sponsors are willing to import...

id say ban em all- even anything from the east.

collegeboy16 wrote:id say ban em all- even anything from the east.

That would be a bad PR move.
Ukie media is probably waiting for something like that to happen, drooling over the endless possibility to demonize Russia even further among the pro-Russians in the east. Remember they've also got the endless support of the whole western propaganda machine (otherwise known as Mainstream Media).
No, better stick to targeted sanctions for now.

First, Russia shouldn't give a   what west think about their decisions and send peacekeeping forces. Ideally these forces should consist of not only Russian nationals but Iran, India, China, and some countries of South America to show the west how things stand.

oh dear ..
http://www.unn.com.ua/ru/news/1354595-pivdenniy-potik-superechit-interesam-ukrayini-posol-ukrayini-v-bolgariyi

Ukrainian Ambassador to Bulgaria: South Stream pipeline demeans Ukraine's national interests:

"Южный поток" противоречит интересам Украины - Посол Украины в Болгарии

КИЕВ. 16 июня. УНН. Реализация проекта "Южный поток" однозначно противоречит национальным интересам Украины. Об этом в эфире "БНР" заявил посол Украины в Болгарии Николай Балтажи, передает УНН.
"У нас есть огромные сомнения в том, что газопровод реализуется по европейским правилам и в том, что этот проект поможет энергетической безопасности Европы. Он лишь усилит позицию "Газпрома", но вряд ли после реализации проекта Европа и ее энергетическая безопасность станут сильнее. Мы обратились к Европейской комиссии с просьбой остановить его", - заявил М.Балтажи.

=====================================
geting better all the time...  
VIDEO - children riding bicycles in Kiev on June 16, 2014.
Singiderogatory ng "Putin is a cocksucker! Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!"

If I was Putin, I'd bomb ukraininan forces in the South-East and retreat ("no-fly, no-arty, no-Grad zone"). But I'm not Putin. Who knows about his agenda.

Does anyone knows about russian forces movements near Ukraine borders started several days ago? There were videos. Is there any news about it? US and Ukraine seems to be too quiet about it

Asf wrote:If I was Putin, I'd bomb ukraininan forces in the South-East and retreat ("no-fly, no-arty, no-Grad zone"). But I'm not Putin. Who knows about his agenda.

Does anyone knows about russian forces movements near Ukraine borders started several days ago? There were videos. Is there any news about it? US and Ukraine seems to be too quiet about it

I guess the idea is:

let the rabies kill the dog.. as is a dead dog walking already
or..

let the testosterone and other hormones that are in saturation at the moment in Ukranian sosciety be consumed.. so they might understand the real situation..

arpakola wrote:oh dear ..
http://www.unn.com.ua/ru/news/1354595-pivdenniy-potik-superechit-interesam-ukrayini-posol-ukrayini-v-bolgariyi

Ukrainian Ambassador to Bulgaria: South Stream pipeline demeans Ukraine's national interests:

"Южный поток" противоречит интересам Украины - Посол Украины в Болгарии

КИЕВ. 16 июня. УНН. Реализация проекта "Южный поток" однозначно противоречит национальным интересам Украины. Об этом в эфире "БНР" заявил посол Украины в Болгарии Николай Балтажи, передает УНН.
"У нас есть огромные сомнения в том, что газопровод реализуется по европейским правилам и в том, что этот проект поможет энергетической безопасности Европы. Он лишь усилит позицию "Газпрома", но вряд ли после реализации проекта Европа и ее энергетическая безопасность станут сильнее. Мы обратились к Европейской комиссии с просьбой остановить его", - заявил М.Балтажи.

=====================================
geting better all the time...  
VIDEO - children riding bicycles in Kiev on June 16, 2014.
Singiderogatory ng "Putin is a cocksucker! Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!"

Simply US regime and its Mafia allies ,since the collapse of Soviet Union and even earlier ,spend millions of Euros and american dollars
to brainwash Ukrainians through media ,Education System ,Radio ,Sport events,newspapers ,talkshows ,Schools  etc.. to makes Ukrainians believe lies about Russia and when they grow older . They also have programs to promote Nazis.. Simply US depends on Rusophobia propaganda to keep NATO and the EU alive ,that is not as united as people will think. And apparently they had a program like that in Crimea ,to "Educate" Russians in Crimea about what's the right way to think for them..and turn them into zombies.. Such propaganda is even starting to show in video games.in the west.    games like from american developers like DICE ? have you Played Battlefield 4?

here is the Rusophibic expansion pack..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X8oGy4G7tM

Notice in that game how the US soldiers in a fantasy world are the saviors of the planet and Russia but also China the axis of Evil
that needs to be stopped. thats the way the brainwashing programs works ,repetition until propaganda until they believe it. I really don't care is a game..but is getting boring already their propaganda.  the Chinaphobic expansion pack.. is called CHina Rising.. and guess what in their previous game Battlefield 3.. IRAN was the enemy.. and American forces had to invade IRAN to "SAve the world" .
Thats is propaganda day ,propaganda midday ,propaganda at night ,for all society on TV ,music ,media and video games.    

You for example never see any American video games or European ones demonizing Saudi Arabia ,kuwait ,bahrain or Turkey or israel..that are very very repressive countries with a never ending list of abuses and human rights no?  real dictatorships many of them    yet not surprisingly Russia ,China and IRAN are the world evils in western fantasy world.  Is like the NEocons have infiltrated all their poisonous propaganda in every part of society ,even in children book.. yes not kidding..  In Ukraine is even more extreme.. the children in schools are told songs to call for the killings of Russians..and later those songs are repeated day and night in Ukraine TV programming.. In short Ukrainians are extremely brainwashed society and don't know how they are being manipulated  their lives..

Haha. You guys are golden. What proof do You need? Existance of NATO should be hint for You. So tell me what you think of expansion NATO right next to Russian borders, ABM shields, civil wars in Russian friendly countries and new US bases popping up. How does Russia counter it?

Russia is on it's own. Enough of delussion about 'allies' like China or Iran. China would win if they would stay neutral.
And here we have US troops in close vicinity to Russia, their numbers are being bolstered. They have plenty of cannon fodder from Lithuania to Portugal. Plus the ocean and most powerfull navy as well. You can say that Russia does have most advanced strategical and tactical weapons, but they are last resort weapons. Who has an upper hand in Ukraine? Is it Russia who has to watch it's brothers turned against them?
Or US who are safe from any repricussions and still have full control of Ukraine and even EU?
I really want to hear your faux patriotic reasoning on this.

Asf wrote:If I was Putin, I'd bomb ukraininan forces in the South-East and retreat ("no-fly, no-arty, no-Grad zone"). But I'm not Putin. Who knows about his agenda.

Does anyone knows about russian forces movements near Ukraine borders started several days ago? There were videos. Is there any news about it? US and Ukraine seems to be too quiet about it

What we seen on videos was mostly light equipment and logistics and few pantsirs. Probably used to reinforce border guards so no ukr jet or bmp will cross the border. Lets not forget about refugees comming to Russia. Army might help to keep peace and order.

Regular wrote:Haha. You guys are golden. What proof do You need? Existance of NATO should be hint for You. So tell me what you think of expansion NATO right next to Russian borders, ABM shields, civil wars in Russian friendly countries and new US bases popping up. How does Russia counter it?

Russia is on it's own. Enough of delussion about 'allies' like China or Iran. China would win if they would stay neutral.
And here we have US troops in close vicinity to Russia, their numbers are being bolstered. They have plenty of cannon fodder from Lithuania to Portugal. Plus the ocean and most powerfull navy as well. You can say that Russia does have most advanced strategical and tactical weapons, but they are last resort weapons. Who has an upper hand in Ukraine? Is it Russia who has to watch it's brothers turned against them?
Or US who are safe from any repricussions and still have full control of Ukraine and even EU?
I really want to hear your faux patriotic reasoning on this.

oh well.
You are right on the point that Russian have to realise how sheet is all this west- friendship policies and start looking where their real interest is . That is IRAN and China.
As for Europe .. they have now to deal with this Ukranian black hole .. they must forget Donbass sooner or later , perhaps also Odessa. ( http://www.novostimira.com.ua/news_102296.html  where the bad news come one after the other..) And never forget .. colour revolution come both ways.. look what happened in IRAQ ..
In Europe that is EU .. the nightmares are in front of them and are called "THE RISING OF NATIONALISMS" ..
a tendancy opossite to the so called integration , as the only integration managed so far is the integration of  Brussels  bureaucrats with their FAT salaries
As for US.. still keeping strong , but only as far as  world markets insist to buy the printouts  of their printing machines..   

wiki wrote: Payment and privileges[edit]
.. the European Parliament is expensive, not least because of the costs of translating documents and interpreting debates into 21 languages. Thus, the 2009 budget of the parliament accounts a yearly total cost of more than 1 Mil Eur per member of parliament.[need quotation to verify] and the total cost of the parliament adds up to approximately 1.5 billion euros per year. ....
Salary
Until 2009, MEPs were paid (by their own Member State) exactly the same salary as a member of the lower House of their own national parliament. As a result, there was a wide range of salaries in the European Parliament. In 2002, Italian MEPs earned €130,000, while Spanish MEPs earned less than a quarter of that at €32,000. However, in July 2005, the Council agreed to a single statute for all MEPs, following a proposal by the Parliament. Thus, since the 2009 elections, all MEPs receive a basic yearly salary of 38.5% of a European Court judge's salary – being around €84,000. This represents a pay-cut for MEPs from some member states (e.g. Italy, Germany, and Austria), a rise for others (particularly the low-paid eastern European Members) and status quo for those from the United Kingdom (depending on the euro-pound exchange rate). The much-criticised expenses arrangements were also partially reformed.[13]  

note in the margin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ukrainian_oblasts_and_territories_by_salary
================================================

http://www.novostimira.com.ua/news_100846.html
«Укроборонпром» будет снабжать украинскую армию

Regular wrote:Haha. You guys are golden. What proof do You need? Existance of NATO should be hint for You. So tell me what you think of expansion NATO right next to Russian borders, ABM shields, civil wars in Russian friendly countries and new US bases popping up. How does Russia counter it?

Russia is on it's own. Enough of delussion about 'allies' like China or Iran. China would win if they would stay neutral.
And here we have US troops in close vicinity to Russia, their numbers are being bolstered. They have plenty of cannon fodder from Lithuania to Portugal. Plus the ocean and most powerfull navy as well. You can say that Russia does have most advanced strategical and tactical weapons, but they are last resort weapons. Who has an upper hand in Ukraine? Is it Russia who has to watch it's brothers turned against them?
Or US who are safe from any repricussions and still have full control of Ukraine and even EU?
I really want to hear your faux patriotic reasoning on this.

Your assumption is that Russia will never take the fight directly to the hands who provoked the Fight.. if For example Russia says that
if they are forced to enter Ukraine to protect civilians and NATO continue supplying weapons to the Nazis ,then Russia will take directly
the fight against them .  so your cannon fodder theory will not work . Taking the fight to the real authors will solve everything and as soon 1-2 american aegis warships destroyed you will see how the world will shake , and the American Myth of invulnerability will end forever ..and they will have two options.. to retaliate and receive a bigger counter retaliation and bigger humiliation,all after they were the ones who provoked Russia into a war from the start.. or negotiate for peace and avoid a major catastrophe . Since Public opinion will NOT be on the side of the Nobel peace Price winner Obama ,the pressure will be on him to stop provoking a very dangerous fight with Russia and to stop supporting Nazis killing civilians in Ukraine. So 99% of the world minus israel and Alqaeda will pressure Obama to STOP and negotiate for peace.  Russia alone have the capabilities to destroy all US and NATO countries in a day.. so you cannot dismiss Russia so easily.  All that is necessary for a Nuclear war to start.. is a miscalculation from NATO ,on Russia reactions and patience. They already warned with a nuclear strike.. that is all their major leaders ,in more than one time . taking not seriously their warnings will be a mistake.

My strong believe is that NATO is weak as hell. Not in military capabilities but in unity . You already saw that in the Syrian war.. where almost noone of NATO formed in line to attack Syria after kerry gave a tour in the EU ,when Russia had the warships there . The probabilities that Greek will fight on the side of turkey are zero..most likely they will fight on Russian side in a world war. Spain on the side of Britain ..? not going to happen. same with Bulgaria. NATO Is an interest alliance that only exist for the money benefits they receive ,not because all Europeans love each others. There too many rivals there , to believe NATO is a real alliance and that half of them will fight Russia. Not a chance.. in case Russia warns with a nuclear war. if NATO continues cross a line .what you will see is a United States isolated without friends. And the reason is simple.. Not many european nations will Risk being Nuked by Russia if something goes wrong ,all that for the defense of a NAZI Government in Ukraine that are killing indiscriminately civilians womens and children. I assure you , at the first Sign
that the war is imminent between US and RUssia..the EU will retreat. and only crazy nations like Israel and saudi arabia could remain. But in the case of Israel is not 100% sure.. they blinked in the last minute too ,and welcomed the Offer of they retreat from Russia in change for Syria giving its chemical weapons.  So in the case of Ukraine is not worth to risk a nuclear war with RUssia for the defense of Subhumans killing civilians in Ukraine.

Good news, looks like the rebels now have access to potentially one of the best weapons for this conflict in terms of cost effectiveness, SPG-9 recoiless rifle   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCyhfM4H6dU&feature=player_detailpage#t=58

etaepsilonk wrote:Good news, looks like the rebels now have access to potentially one of the best weapons for this conflict in terms of cost effectiveness, SPG-9 recoiless rifle   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCyhfM4H6dU&feature=player_detailpage#t=58

Interesting.. there are some projectiles (FRAG-HE) apparently from 4km to 6.5km range and tadem warheads up to 550m.

etaepsilonk wrote:Good news, looks like the rebels now have access to potentially one of the best weapons for this conflict in terms of cost effectiveness, SPG-9 recoiless rifle   

wont help much- disparity in firepower, esp. heavy weapons is too much.