Promising destroyer "Lider-class"

franco wrote: From other articles and with the nuclear propulsion, it would appear that this new ship will be as large as the Slava cruisers if not larger.

If you compare with other similar naval projects, the program for 12 units of Slava sized destroyers, with a displacement of around 10,000+ tons, would likely bring the costs somewhere between $10-20 billion. I wouldn't be surprised if the unit cost would be $1-2 billion a ship similar to Burkes and other heavy destroyers. It's unlikely to be as expensive as the CG(X) or the Zumwalt programs where it was around $3.4 billion a unit. Costs will still depend on how radical the design is but Leader is likely going be a conventionally structured stealth ship if its anything like the proposed concepts of the Severnoye Design Bereau.

TheArmenian wrote:

They just improved and modernized the design

its like ice cream cone, add more scoops for more fun!

and Werewolf whats with the nice attack helo avatar- looks like stealthified mi-28.

Werewolf wrote:

Tyloe wrote:it's clearly a photoshop on the original image

What preposterous claim, don't you see this ship was designed to be commanded by 6 admirals!

6 admirals who happened to be Buddhist monks.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

Tyloe wrote:it's clearly a photoshop on the original image

What preposterous claim, don't you see this ship was designed to be commanded by 6 admirals!

6 admirals who happened to be Buddhist monks.

Not water benders?

Tyloe and GD thank you for the input on the previous page, appreciated.

Now, the news today are very interesting, it looks like the MoD considers cheaper to use a nuclear power plant rather than build an appropriate gas turbine? Reading on the subject on bastion-karpenko website, it looks like as of last year there were two alternatives envisaged for Leader - a 7,000 to 9,000t gas turbine variant and a 13,000-14,000t nuclear powered one, which is actually close to the stated displacement for pr.23560E. Would be very interesting to see the final design for VMF according to the TTZ when it will be unveiled by Severnoe. Maybe an evolved and enlarged 21956?

If they indeed go nuclear, very likely the future carriers will also be nuclear.

GarryB wrote:Hopefully they will try one of their new more powerful nuclear reactors in an upgraded Kirov class vessel that replaces the complicated propulsion design currently used, and when upgrading the Kuznetsov perhaps a nuclear propulsion redesign could be considered too.

Very simply a carrier group is only as fast as its slowest member so with a Kirov class vessel included it can go 32kntsfor about 2,000 nautical miles until the conventional fuel runs out and then it must run on its small nuke power unit at 16knts or 18knts or so...

Obviously any refueling tanker will be following at 16knts at most...

Unless all AC-killers will be nuclear. Nuclear reactor is not only source of propulsion, all lasers, EM guns radars... Current solutions in nuke propulsion can be reactor and electric drives who told that it cannot be this way? imagine weight saved by replacing turbines and fuel with reactor + number of electrical drives. Not of mention level of noise...

Tyloe wrote:According to Tass, the MoD confirmed that nuclear propulsion is now an official requirement thanks to the latest changes to the technical assignment for the destroyer program. The option for gas-turbine engines appears to be cancelled. Severnoye design bureau is currently working on a new concept following the technical requirements given and plan to complete it by next year. Whether the bureau is assigned for the final design is not known. Meanwhile the navy plans to order at least 12 units and slowly replace the Sovremennyy and Udaloy class destroyers, firstly those of Northern and Pacific Fleets. The need for nuclear power may show the class is required to have unlimited endurance so it can be deployed for maritime operations further abroad. Range appears to be an important aspect of the program.

12units? even more than Slavas+ Kirovs summed up. As a big fan of Soviet concept of Aircraft Carrying Cruiser I hope air-wing will have lotsa drones

Nuclear powered ships is where Russia excells in, far better than diesel electric. You will notice that they were much faster at building the nuclear powered ice breaker compared to the diesel electric one. I have a feeling it has more to do with the fact that most desiel electric ships use Ukrainian engines and there is maybe only one facility in Russia that makes diesel electric turbines for ships (saw it on sdelanounas). And there is demand for desiel electric already and not so much for nuclear as funding has pulled back a bit for the ice breaker (stupid imo as it was their successful one) and too many other ships call for desiel - frigates, corvettes.

There's one thing I don't understand about nuclear-powered capital ships and that's - how are they supposed to be able to use their advantage in range/endurance/etc... if all the other ships of their group are conventionally-powered?

As GarryB mentions; the carrier-group is only as fast as its slowest ship.
That goes for nuclear-powered ships too - they are only as fast the slowest member in their group, only as long-ranged as the shortest-ranged member in their group, can only stay out at sea as long as the fuel supplies of the other ships last, etc...

The only thing it really helps is on relieving the fuel-consumption of the group as a whole - when its largest ships are nuclear powered and don't need any fuel themselves.

Ships like these are giant bomb trucks with the ability to defend itself from enemy aircrafts and missiles. Having a ship like this could help escort other ships to various destinations and back (auxillery ships are being concentrated on, even though they get little news, and such ships help increase overall endurance of other ships like able to refuel and such). Having such a ship parked off of the coast of syria without having to use the port to refuel or anything, is beneficial.

flamming_python wrote:There's one thing I don't understand about nuclear-powered capital ships and that's - how are they supposed to be able to use their advantage in range/endurance/etc... if all the other ships of their group are conventionally-powered?

As GarryB mentions; the carrier-group is only as fast as its slowest ship.
That goes for nuclear-powered ships too - they are only as fast the slowest member in their group, only as long-ranged as the shortest-ranged member in their group, can only stay out at sea as long as the fuel supplies of the other ships last, etc...

The only thing it really helps is on relieving the fuel-consumption of the group as a whole - when its largest ships are nuclear powered and don't need any fuel themselves.

and what if doctrine will assume ¨Antarctica¨tams? consisting only from nuclear powered ships? AC/Leaders /SSNs maybe somewhat smaller destroyers? Antarctica penguins ro ensuring not rigger referendum on Malwinas might be worth it

GunshipDemocracy wrote:The new project  of AC 23000E Storm developed -according to RAI and JHS


The length of the ship — 330 m, width — 40 meters, the displacement will be 90-100 thousand tons, maximum speed — 30 knots (cruising — 20), maximum draught of 11 metres. The carrier can hold 4000-5000 crew members and is able to perform combat missions at sea state up to 6-7 points. The site also adds that the current draft of the ship equipped with the standard powerplant, however, there is a possibility of its replacement by the nuclear engine.
The wing of the ship will consist of 80-90 aircraft, also the possibility of basing fighter T-50 FESPACO and the MiG-29K, aircraft systems airborne early warning and control and of the family of helicopters Ka-27.
sorry i cannot put links here

The news was already posted in Future Russian Aircraft Carriers Thread:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t2631p525-future-russian-aircraft-carriers

They're weighing up whether to make the new destroyer supersructure out composite materials or aluminium

The destroyer "Leader", which is likely to become the basis for a promising carrier in the Russian Federation might have a superstructure out of composite materials.

This was reported to RIA Novosti on Wednesday, by the general director of the Mid-Nevsky Shipyard, Vladimir Seredoho.

"Currently the project is considering a superstructure out of aluminum or composite. If the composite option is chosen, we will build it" - said Seredoho.

РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150520/1065540284.html#ixzz3agAekoez

Kyo wrote:

The news was already posted in Future Russian Aircraft Carriers Thread:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t2631p525-future-russian-aircraft-carriers

Removed, apologies somehow i missed AC thread, i´ll double check next time.

Cyberspec wrote:They're weighing up whether to make the new destroyer supersructure out composite materials or aluminium

The destroyer "Leader", which is likely to become the basis for a promising carrier in the Russian Federation might have a superstructure out of composite materials.

This was reported to RIA Novosti on Wednesday, by the general director of the Mid-Nevsky Shipyard, Vladimir Seredoho.

"Currently the project is considering a superstructure out of aluminum or composite. If the composite option is chosen, we will build it" - said Seredoho.

РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150520/1065540284.html#ixzz3agAekoez

Would this also confirm that OSK plans to construct the first units at the Mid-Nevsky Shipyard?

GarryB wrote:Hopefully they will try one of their new more powerful nuclear reactors in an upgraded Kirov class vessel that replaces the complicated propulsion design currently used, and when upgrading the Kuznetsov perhaps a nuclear propulsion redesign could be considered too.

Garry, the nuclear reactor for the Leader will be a new reactor.

Leader -all missiles in VLS
(so CIWS as well Morfey?)

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150611/1069415872.html

MOSCOW, 11 Dec — RIA Novosti. Promising destroyer project Leader will be winged and armed with anti-aircraft missiles secretive home, told RIA Novosti on Thursday, a senior representative of the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation.
"This will be the platform for 60 cruise missiles, not 24 like (nuclear guided missile cruiser — ed.) "Peter the Great", — said the interlocutor of the Agency, noting that all the missiles: both cruise and anti-aircraft will be stored in the mines.
The project is being developed in the Central research Institute named Krylov, it is planned that the ship will be built with a nuclear power unit. The displacement of the ship will be 14 thousand tons, the crew will consist of 350 people.
Bookmark brain destroyer at the plant "Severnaya Verf" in St. Petersburg will take place at the turn of 2017-2018.
The model of the future destroyer type "Leader" will be first demonstrated at the opening on June 16 in Moscow the exhibition "Army-2015".

From Armya-2015. Perhaps this is the "Leader" after all?
http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/930493.html

mack8 wrote:From Armya-2015. Perhaps this is the "Leader" after all?
http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/930493.html

...If that turns out to be the case, a lot of people will end up eating humble pie lol!

magnumcromagnon wrote:
...If that turns out to be the case, a lot of people will end up eating humble pie lol!

Agreed, and I never did understand the skepticism expressed about the model, as the general configuration was quite workable and reasonable IMHO. The stacked pyramidal superstructure may be a little unaesthetic, but its driven by the use of AESA panels inclined for coverage against high angle of attack weapons, so whats the problem?

I hoe it will have some weapon to defend itself from UAV swarms... like the Ranets EMP weapon announced....

Looks underarmed and with a lot of wasted surface area.

Russian Navy to Start Building New Lider-Class Destroyer in 2019

Russian Navy plans to begin construction of a new Lider-class destroyer in 2019, Navy Commander-in-Chief Adm. Viktor Chirkov told reporters.

The Russian Navy unveiled Lider's designs at the Army-2015 international military technical forum earlier this week.
According to the description, the vessel will have a displacement of approximately 17,500 tons, with a length of 200 meters and a breadth of 20 meters.

The destroyer may be armed with up to 60 anti-ship cruise missiles, 128 anti-aircraft guided missiles, and 16 anti-ship guided missiles.The vessel may reach a speed of 30 knots and operate to up to 90 days without support.

"We plan to start construction of a Lider destroyer in 2019. We are currently carrying out design work," Chirkov said.

He added that the capabilities of the new destroyers would be comparable with the capabilities of a cruiser.

Russia is currently undergoing a $325-billion rearmament program for a 70-percent increase in its military's modern weaponry by 2020.



http://sputniknews.com/military/20150621/1023666085.html#ixzz3diq1nJDz

max steel wrote:The destroyer may be armed with up to 60 anti-ship cruise missiles, 128 anti-aircraft guided missiles, and 16 anti-ship guided missiles.The vessel may reach a speed of 30 knots and operate to up to 90 days without support.

http://sputniknews.com/military/20150621/1023666085.html#ixzz3diq1nJDz

Journos of course took auto translation - 16 in original is referring to ASW rocket torpedoes