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Log inThey could probably just advance the MiG-25/31 airframe a bit, modernize it using more composite materials and kind of adjust the intakes a bit and overall shape to make it a stealthy jet, but retaining the main design. This would greatly reduce the price. I think they are already testing out newer equipment for what they may want in it as there is already a MiG-31BM3.
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74 posters
PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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BM-21- Posts : 40
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That would be more economical and the aircraft would probably have a similar performance to a clean sheat design. However my opinion is that the mig-25 airframe has been already exploited to the maximum. A new airframe would allow them to base next generation aircraft on it just like the Su-57 will serve as a basis for a future fifth plus generation fighter like the Su-27 did. I imagine that many of the technologies developed on the Su-57 would be used in its creation so it wouldn't be as a protracted development as the Su-57 or as expensive. The biggest obstical would be developing mach-4.5 engines.
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4896
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Join date : 2014-08-25
Location : Melbourne, Australia
BM-21 wrote:Agree. This fighter would solve all of Russia's problems like the upcoming SR-72 and other high altitude, high speed drones. Just like the Mig-31 drove off the SR-71 the Mig-41 should be capable of protecting Russia's airspace from the SR-72. If a prototype comes out before 2020 then this will be huge.
The idea of trying to penetrate Russia's air defense systems with high altitude hypersonic manned plane is an archaic idea and doomed to failure. Just like the S-300/S-300V made it unfeasible for the SR-71 to survive in the 80s, the S-500/S-400 will seal Russian airspace against any hypersonic successor. A rapid dive in and out of Russian airspace at the remote periphery may be possible, but an actual real penetration? No chance.
BM-21- Posts : 40
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Join date : 2017-09-30
Big_Gazza wrote:BM-21 wrote:Agree. This fighter would solve all of Russia's problems like the upcoming SR-72 and other high altitude, high speed drones. Just like the Mig-31 drove off the SR-71 the Mig-41 should be capable of protecting Russia's airspace from the SR-72. If a prototype comes out before 2020 then this will be huge.
The idea of trying to penetrate Russia's air defense systems with high altitude hypersonic manned plane is an archaic idea and doomed to failure. Just like the S-300/S-300V made it unfeasible for the SR-71 to survive in the 80s, the S-500/S-400 will seal Russian airspace against any hypersonic successor. A rapid dive in and out of Russian airspace at the remote periphery may be possible, but an actual real penetration? No chance.
It wouldn't be easy to shoot down a high altitude hypersonic target travelling along a ballistic path let alone one able to manoeuvre. This is what a Russian military expert pointed out in an article I read recently. Perhaps the S-500 is the most capable system in it's class in the world and it could probably shoot down the SR-72 but don't forget that such systems are usually positioned deep within a nations borders protecting the capital and key industrious regions. The US could use the aircraft to constantly survey Russia by flying close to the border. I think this is were an aircraft like the Mig-41 would become useful, repelling any attempts to penetrate Russia's border.
kvs- Posts : 15857
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A manned aircraft is not a nuclear ICBM MARV flying at over 4 km/s. Maneuverable warheads
coming down at 8 km/s can escape ABMs, but not any aircraft.
coming down at 8 km/s can escape ABMs, but not any aircraft.
BM-21- Posts : 40
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In the case of the SR-72 it will be an unmanned aircraft flying at a maximum speed of 2km/s. At that speed it would still probaby fly in a fairly straight line however I doubt that it would fly close to ABM sites. It would probably fly along Russia's borders. I understand that the idea of penetrating Russia's airspace with such a plane is fantasy. The Mig-41 would be perfect for protecting Russia's borders and escorting foreign aircraft. Its high speed and quick reaction time would make it a perfect interceptor.
eehnie- Posts : 2425
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BM-21 wrote:In the case of the SR-72 it will be an unmanned aircraft flying at a maximum speed of 2km/s. At that speed it would still probaby fly in a fairly straight line however I doubt that it would fly close to ABM sites. It would probably fly along Russia's borders. I understand that the idea of penetrating Russia's airspace with such a plane is fantasy. The Mig-41 would be perfect for protecting Russia's borders and escorting foreign aircraft. Its high speed and quick reaction time would make it a perfect interceptor.
The A-235 seems being designed as mobile. It is a great advantage from this point.
Also unmanned aircrafts will be very likely shut-down when they enter the air space of Russia. The model of interception and escort outside is only for manned aircrafts. The SR-72 will face very likely also Air-Air missiles.
ZoA- Posts : 145
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You people are to worried about SR-72. In all likelihood that thing will newer enter operational service, and if it miraculously does number of units produced will be well in to single digits.
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4896
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The SR-72 is likely nothing but an overly hyped vapourware project. A Mach 6 manned aircraft? What tech demonstrators give any indication that the US can build a scramjet to power such a aircraft?
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6168
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The Russian interceptor MiG-41 will become the fastest fighter in the world
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201712201159-ipn8.htm
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201712201159-ipn8.htm
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The head of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security, Viktor Bondarev, said that the new long-range intercept aircraft complex will be represented.
"It is assumed that the MiG-41 will be the fastest in the world, the most invisible for radars. It will be able to withstand not only standard low-maneuverable threats like cruise missiles, bombers, drones, but also threats from hypersonic missiles, "said the former commander of the Russian Air Force.
According to him, the range of PAK DP is laid in the range from 700 to 1500 kilometers. The armament will be the R-37 air-to-air missile, as well as the next-generation missiles.
"The MiG-41 is under development. About his admission to the troops to speak prematurely, but most likely it will not be until 2025, "added Bondarev.
It is assumed that the MiG-41 should replace the MiG-31 interceptor, whose service life expires in 2028.
Recall, in mid-December, the general designer of the United Aircraft Corporation Sergei Korotkov said that the work on the establishment of PAK DP may begin as early as next year.
At the moment there is a process of discussing the technical assignment for the aircraft between the developer of RAC "MiG" and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. It is not excluded that the future interceptor will be able to perform tasks in near space .
The-thing-next-door- Posts : 1393
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- Post n°186
Re: PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor
The-thing-next-door Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:24 pm
I have heard claims that the Mig 41 will have laser weapons what is the likelyhood of this?
Azi- Posts : 803
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This "laser weapons" are intended to destroy or mislead the optical guidance sensors of enemy missiles. The systems are in development or already exits.The-thing-next-door wrote:I have heard claims that the Mig 41 will have laser weapons what is the likelyhood of this?
Second stage of "laser weapons" is to destroy incoming missiles with the sharp beam, but this is dream of the future right now for fighters.
Isos- Posts : 11602
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Azi wrote:This "laser weapons" are intended to destroy or mislead the optical guidance sensors of enemy missiles. The systems are in development or already exits.The-thing-next-door wrote:I have heard claims that the Mig 41 will have laser weapons what is the likelyhood of this?
Second stage of "laser weapons" is to destroy incoming missiles with the sharp beam, but this is dream of the future right now for fighters.
It would be far easier to use its powerfull radar for that. Lasers need time to "cut" or destroy a target and its really hard to concentrate the energy on one point on a missile that goes mach 4 while you also go mach 2 or 3. If they are planing to make it the successor of Mig 31 it will probably have a more powerfull radar so they can concentrate the energy to burn the electronics in it.
That could even work on any type of flying object. From satelites to missiles and missiles or drones.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6168
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Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada
Isos wrote:Azi wrote:This "laser weapons" are intended to destroy or mislead the optical guidance sensors of enemy missiles. The systems are in development or already exits.The-thing-next-door wrote:I have heard claims that the Mig 41 will have laser weapons what is the likelyhood of this?
Second stage of "laser weapons" is to destroy incoming missiles with the sharp beam, but this is dream of the future right now for fighters.
It would be far easier to use its powerfull radar for that. Lasers need time to "cut" or destroy a target and its really hard to concentrate the energy on one point on a missile that goes mach 4 while you also go mach 2 or 3. If they are planing to make it the successor of Mig 31 it will probably have a more powerfull radar so they can concentrate the energy to burn the electronics in it.
That could even work on any type of flying object. From satelites to missiles and missiles or drones.
With powerful engine (generator for loading capacitors) and enough capacitors you can got and impulse for lasers/or masers (to cook electronics of incoming missile) .
Alternative way would be using (if technology already matured) miniature explosive magnetic flux generators to power it.
For me 2 things are strange.
1) why R-37 in newer and longer range missiles exist in Russia? KS-172 or at least updated version RVV-BD,
http://www.ktrv.ru/production/68/649/1526/
2) i wonder what "near space means" ? 30+ ? but then how about air breathing engine not to mention wings
GarryB- Posts : 40541
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From what I have read the KS-172 seems to be an air launched S-400 long range missile so in the future they could put even the S-500 missiles on board to attack satellites too.
Fitting it now with the R-37 makes sense as it is a mature in service weapon... a bit like fitting R-77s to the Su-35 and PAK FA... new weapons are being developed but for now these are the best they can operate.
Regarding lasers and other weapons for now dazzling or destroying optical components like DIRCMs makes a lot of sense... later on the performance will improve and other options become options....
Fitting it now with the R-37 makes sense as it is a mature in service weapon... a bit like fitting R-77s to the Su-35 and PAK FA... new weapons are being developed but for now these are the best they can operate.
Regarding lasers and other weapons for now dazzling or destroying optical components like DIRCMs makes a lot of sense... later on the performance will improve and other options become options....
Azi- Posts : 803
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With a small reserve of oxygen it would be possible to power the engines for a small time. And by the way...higher speed means that it's possible to reach higher altitude, even without a reserve of oxygenGunshipDemocracy wrote:2) i wonder what "near space means" ? 30+ ? but then how about air breathing engine not to mention wings
GarryB- Posts : 40541
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I think it will be more the weapons of the MiG-41 reaching near space rather than the aircraft itself... the SR-71 had even less ability to climb to high altitude than the slower MiG-31 or MiG-25, so speed alone does not buy you altitude.
Having said that the MiG-41 will almost certainly carry anti satellite weapons like the S-500 in an air launched model...
It will likely also be able to launch small satellites too.
Having said that the MiG-41 will almost certainly carry anti satellite weapons like the S-500 in an air launched model...
It will likely also be able to launch small satellites too.
eehnie- Posts : 2425
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https://militaryarms.ru/voennaya-texnika/aviaciya/mig-41/
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmilitaryarms.ru%2Fvoennaya-texnika%2Faviaciya%2Fmig-41%2F
http://www.altair.com.pl/news/view?news_id=23148
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.altair.com.pl%2Fnews%2Fview%3Fnews_id%3D23148
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmilitaryarms.ru%2Fvoennaya-texnika%2Faviaciya%2Fmig-41%2F
...
05/04/2018
...
Earlier this year, Vice President of the Russian United Aircraft Corporation Sergei Korotkov told reporters that work on the creation of a new MiG-41 fighter was continuing. According to him, this will be a new generation machine that will replace the MiG-31 high-altitude fighter interceptor developed in the mid-1970s. Also Korotkov said that in the creation of a new car, not only designers OKB im. Mikoyan, but also representatives of other enterprises of the national defense industry.
Developments are carried out in accordance with the assignment that was prepared by the Russian Ministry of Defense...
http://www.altair.com.pl/news/view?news_id=23148
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.altair.com.pl%2Fnews%2Fview%3Fnews_id%3D23148
In an interview with Russia Today during the exhibition Armia-2017, general director of RSK MiG Ilia Tarasenko, revealed some of the capabilities of the new fighter aircraft WKS FR PAK DP, also referred to as MiG-41.
MiG-41 is to be a completely new construction, not a modernized MiG-31 (in the picture) / Photo: MO FR – Obecnie jesteśmy na ostatnim etapie finalizacji projektu, który będzie całkowicie nową konstrukcją, a nie zmodernizowanym MiGiem-31 – podkreślił Tarasenko ( 6 kolejnych MiG-31BSM w linii , 2017-04-04).
- We are currently at the final stage of the project finalization, which will be a completely new construction, not a modernized MiG-31 - emphasized Tarasenko.
- It will be a completely new plane, capable of operating in the Arctic and space, constructed using modern technologies that will serve to defend the entire country. In the future, we will transform it into an unmanned flying vehicle - added the head of the RSK MiG.
The MiG-41 is to develop the M4-4.3 speed and be armed with a laser to shoot down enemy missiles. According to Tarasenka, if the buyer (WKS FR) decides to buy new aircraft, the serial MiGi-41 can be available as soon as 2025 (the MiG-31 successor only in 2025 , 2014-08-13).
LMFS- Posts : 5162
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Join date : 2018-03-03
Can this be taken at face value? Sounds rather like MiG wanting to get a headline. To meet those dates the propulsion system should be essentially ready, if I am not wrong this would call for a scramjet or a PDE, only very recently Russian scientists have tested one of those in laboratoryeehnie wrote:https://militaryarms.ru/voennaya-texnika/aviaciya/mig-41/
MiG-41 is to be a completely new construction, not a modernized MiG-31 (in the picture) / Photo: MO FR – Obecnie jesteśmy na ostatnim etapie finalizacji projektu, który będzie całkowicie nową konstrukcją, a nie zmodernizowanym MiGiem-31 – podkreślił Tarasenko ( 6 kolejnych MiG-31BSM w linii , 2017-04-04).
- We are currently at the final stage of the project finalization, which will be a completely new construction, not a modernized MiG-31 - emphasized Tarasenko.
- It will be a completely new plane, capable of operating in the Arctic and space, constructed using modern technologies that will serve to defend the entire country. In the future, we will transform it into an unmanned flying vehicle - added the head of the RSK MiG.
The MiG-41 is to develop the M4-4.3 speed and be armed with a laser to shoot down enemy missiles. According to Tarasenka, if the buyer (WKS FR) decides to buy new aircraft, the serial MiGi-41 can be available as soon as 2025 (the MiG-31 successor only in 2025 , 2014-08-13).
https://www.russiadefence.net/t2824p600-ew-technologies-and-innovation-development-in-russia#188456
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klYdVT06Pxk
Guest- Guest
LMFS wrote:Can this be taken at face value? Sounds rather like MiG wanting to get a headline. To meet those dates the propulsion system should be essentially ready, if I am not wrong this would call for a scramjet or a PDE, only very recently Russian scientists have tested one of those in laboratoryeehnie wrote:https://militaryarms.ru/voennaya-texnika/aviaciya/mig-41/
MiG-41 is to be a completely new construction, not a modernized MiG-31 (in the picture) / Photo: MO FR – Obecnie jesteśmy na ostatnim etapie finalizacji projektu, który będzie całkowicie nową konstrukcją, a nie zmodernizowanym MiGiem-31 – podkreślił Tarasenko ( 6 kolejnych MiG-31BSM w linii , 2017-04-04).
- We are currently at the final stage of the project finalization, which will be a completely new construction, not a modernized MiG-31 - emphasized Tarasenko.
- It will be a completely new plane, capable of operating in the Arctic and space, constructed using modern technologies that will serve to defend the entire country. In the future, we will transform it into an unmanned flying vehicle - added the head of the RSK MiG.
The MiG-41 is to develop the M4-4.3 speed and be armed with a laser to shoot down enemy missiles. According to Tarasenka, if the buyer (WKS FR) decides to buy new aircraft, the serial MiGi-41 can be available as soon as 2025 (the MiG-31 successor only in 2025 , 2014-08-13).
https://www.russiadefence.net/t2824p600-ew-technologies-and-innovation-development-in-russia#188456
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klYdVT06Pxk
No. Its clickbite crap.
LMFS- Posts : 5162
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Join date : 2018-03-03
You mean the MiG guy didn't say that? Or maybe he was full of sh*t as well, or was mistranslated?Militarov wrote:
No. Its clickbite crap.
I am starting to think it is a seemingly very Russian thing that companies in need of contracts become real attention bitches ...and very much doubt that spewing that amount of BS helps getting them
Guest- Guest
LMFS wrote:You mean the MiG guy didn't say that? Or maybe he was full of sh*t as well, or was mistranslated?Militarov wrote:
No. Its clickbite crap.
I am starting to think it is a seemingly very Russian thing that companies in need of contracts become real attention bitches ...and very much doubt that spewing that amount of BS helps getting them
Probably mix of all above. He said something that got misstranslated, and he was naturally full of shit as they are always. If you remember PAK-FA was to be fielded in 2015. as claimed in 2011. And by this day we were supposed to have aircraft carrier half finished as it was to be laid in 2015.
Salt is to be taken on regular basis.
LMFS- Posts : 5162
Points : 5158
Join date : 2018-03-03
Militarov wrote:LMFS wrote:You mean the MiG guy didn't say that? Or maybe he was full of sh*t as well, or was mistranslated?Militarov wrote:
No. Its clickbite crap.
I am starting to think it is a seemingly very Russian thing that companies in need of contracts become real attention bitches ...and very much doubt that spewing that amount of BS helps getting them
Probably mix of all above. He said something that got misstranslated, and he was naturally full of shit as they are always. If you remember PAK-FA was to be fielded in 2015. as claimed in 2011. And by this day we were supposed to have aircraft carrier half finished as it was to be laid in 2015.
With ongoing projects they are rather "optimistic", but when it is about catching some fresh money from the estate for something new and megalomaniac they go in overdrive. They prove the public opinion to see whether they can get some weight on their side I guess...
eehnie- Posts : 2425
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The MiG-25/31 proved to be an outstanding aircraft, and the role of interceptor proved to be useful for Russia. MiG needs to beg nothing, because they have been the alone doing this work since many decades..
The alone bullshit here is the comments of the experts on WTF that get ridiculized habitually by the reality. Habitually.
The alone bullshit here is the comments of the experts on WTF that get ridiculized habitually by the reality. Habitually.
LMFS- Posts : 5162
Points : 5158
Join date : 2018-03-03
???eehnie wrote:The MiG-25/31 proved to be an outstanding aircraft, and the role of interceptor proved to be useful for Russia. MiG needs to beg nothing, because they have been the alone doing this work since many decades..
The alone bullshit here is the comments of the experts on WTF that get ridiculized habitually by the reality. Habitually.