PAK DP prospective long-range interceptor

Not only the impact, but the range. The old MiG-25RB could deliver a 500kg bomb from 40km away with the toss-bomb method, flying in 18.000m with M2.5.

KLA has transferred to the Ministry of Defense the groundwork for the project of a promising interceptor

Military Department will announce a competition for the development of aircraft

MOSCOW, October 18. / Tass /. All materials on the creation of a promising long-range aviation intercept system to replace the MiG-31 were transferred to the Ministry of Defense. The Defense Ministry will announce a competition for the development of the aircraft, said Sergey Korotkov, General Designer, Vice President for Innovation, United Aircraft Building Corporation (UAC).

"Now all the materials [on the PAK DP] have been submitted to the Ministry of Defense, they are now organizing a competition for a long-range interception project," Korotkov said, responding to a question about creating a promising long-range aviation intercept system.

When exactly the competition will be announced, Korotkov did not specify.

As previously reported, the MiG-31 fighter-interceptor will be replaced by a new MiG-41 aircraft, also called the PAK DP, a promising long-range interception aircraft complex.

More
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5691812

Competition Will be good but a bit sad because i though Mig had This in the bag

dino00 wrote:KLA has transferred to the Ministry of Defense the groundwork for the project of a promising interceptor

Military Department will announce a competition for the development of aircraft

MOSCOW, October 18. / Tass /. All materials on the creation of a promising long-range aviation intercept system to replace the MiG-31 were transferred to the Ministry of Defense. The Defense Ministry will announce a competition for the development of the aircraft, said Sergey Korotkov, General Designer, Vice President for Innovation, United Aircraft Building Corporation (UAC).

"Now all the materials [on the PAK DP] have been submitted to the Ministry of Defense, they are now organizing a competition for a long-range interception project," Korotkov said, responding to a question about creating a promising long-range aviation intercept system.

When exactly the competition will be announced, Korotkov did not specify.

As previously reported, the MiG-31 fighter-interceptor will be replaced by a new MiG-41 aircraft, also called the PAK DP, a promising long-range interception aircraft complex.

More
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5691812

Competition Will be good but a bit sad because  i though Mig had This in the bag

Good news, this is exactly the point we previously discussed needed to be reached before a program for the MiG-41 starts proper, Slyusar pointed to this milestone in the Army forum IIRC. Hopefully MoD has the ideas clear enough to allow for a fast development of the plane but looking at previous experiences MiG-31 will still need to be modernized / overhauled further I guess, before being substituted. At least judging from the statements coming from MoD they are not expected to last much more than 2030 in current conditions.

Regarding the competition, it is necessary to ensure the best solution is developed. I hope MiG comes with the best proposal but if not then they should only blame themselves...

dino00 wrote:KLA has transferred to the Ministry of Defense the groundwork for the project of a promising interceptor

Military Department will announce a competition for the development of aircraft

MOSCOW, October 18. / Tass /. All materials on the creation of a promising long-range aviation intercept system to replace the MiG-31 were transferred to the Ministry of Defense. The Defense Ministry will announce a competition for the development of the aircraft, said Sergey Korotkov, General Designer, Vice President for Innovation, United Aircraft Building Corporation (UAC).

"Now all the materials [on the PAK DP] have been submitted to the Ministry of Defense, they are now organizing a competition for a long-range interception project," Korotkov said, responding to a question about creating a promising long-range aviation intercept system.

When exactly the competition will be announced, Korotkov did not specify.

As previously reported, the MiG-31 fighter-interceptor will be replaced by a new MiG-41 aircraft, also called the PAK DP, a promising long-range interception aircraft complex.

More
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5691812

Competition Will be good but a bit sad because  i though Mig had This in the bag

strange, the same article that says "MiG-41 will be the new interceptor", says also that will be a competition. Unless there is a mistake

Likely the competition has been ongoing secretly since long time, and as vicepresident of UAC, he knows they will present only one project for the competition.

George1 wrote:

dino00 wrote:KLA has transferred to the Ministry of Defense the groundwork for the project of a promising interceptor

Military Department will announce a competition for the development of aircraft

MOSCOW, October 18. / Tass /. All materials on the creation of a promising long-range aviation intercept system to replace the MiG-31 were transferred to the Ministry of Defense. The Defense Ministry will announce a competition for the development of the aircraft, said Sergey Korotkov, General Designer, Vice President for Innovation, United Aircraft Building Corporation (UAC).

"Now all the materials [on the PAK DP] have been submitted to the Ministry of Defense, they are now organizing a competition for a long-range interception project," Korotkov said, responding to a question about creating a promising long-range aviation intercept system.

When exactly the competition will be announced, Korotkov did not specify.

As previously reported, the MiG-31 fighter-interceptor will be replaced by a new MiG-41 aircraft, also called the PAK DP, a promising long-range interception aircraft complex.

More
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5691812

Competition Will be good but a bit sad because  i though Mig had This in the bag

strange, the same article that says "MiG-41 will be the new interceptor", says also that will be a competition. Unless there is a mistake

Journalists...there Will be a competition, if Mig Wins maybe they call mig-41

We always heard mig-41 so its easy for journalists to speculate about the name

eehnie wrote:Likely the competition has been ongoing secretly since long time, and as vicepresident of UAC, he knows they will present only one project for the competition.

Why would they need to make the competition secret? PAK-DP is no secret initiative...

From what is said in the article it seems to me some preliminary work has been done by UAC probably to help MoD prepare demanding but feasible requirements for the competition, based on technical state of the art and capabilities of the industrial base.

Maybe it'll be like with Tu-160 where Sukhoi won the competition but it got handed over to Tupolev for actual implementation for political reasons.

LMFS wrote:Regarding the competition, it is necessary to ensure the best solution is developed. I hope MiG comes with the best proposal but if not then they should only blame themselves...

Regardless on completion MiG will likely the job. Simply because all design bureaus are part of OAK. SO there will be a competition but between internal teams.

LMFS wrote:

eehnie wrote:Likely the competition has been ongoing secretly since long time, and as vicepresident of UAC, he knows they will present only one project for the competition.

Why would they need to make the competition secret? PAK-DP is no secret initiative...

From what is said in the article it seems to me some preliminary work has been done by UAC probably to help MoD prepare demanding but feasible requirements for the competition, based on technical state of the art and capabilities of the industrial base.

We had news about the development of the PAK-DP, even about the MG-41 designation since years.
We had news about the presentation of some project soon.
We had news about the Ministry of Defense impulsing the development since be begin.
But we had not news aobut the procedure used by the Ministry of Defense to impulse this project.

A competition can be this procedure. And is a procedure used habitually by the Russian Armed Forces for air based platforms. We now have news of it. It is not rare to think this has been ongoing hiddenly to impulse the development. Not everything is public since the begin.

The Vicepresident of the UAC commented about a competition the UAC will not organize. How can talk him about future events organized by others? It is obvious that the UAC has been invited to take part presenting some project, and it means the procedure is ongoing and will be made public soon. Simply the procedure is reaching now its public phase.

The Vicepresident and Design Director of the UAC, former head of MiG, said they presented the works on the MiG-PAK-DP/41. If the UAC presents not other project to the competition from other of their own design bureaus, no-one else can do it. Then, the MiG-PAK-DP/41 is the winner of the competition for sure.

eehnie wrote:We had news about the development of the PAK-DP, even about the MG-41 designation since years.
We had news about the presentation of some project soon.
We had news about the Ministry of Defense impulsing the development since be begin.
But we had not news aobut the procedure used by the Ministry of Defense to impulse this project.

A competition can be this procedure. And is a procedure used habitually by the Russian Armed Forces for air based platforms. We now have news of it. It is not rare to think this has been ongoing hiddenly to impulse the development. Not everything is public since the begin.

The Vicepresident of the UAC commented about a competition the UAC will not organize. How can talk him about future events organized by others? It is obvious that the UAC has been invited to take part presenting some project, and it means the procedure is ongoing and will be made public soon. Simply the procedure is reaching now its public phase.

The Vicepresident and Design Director of the UAC, former head of MiG, said they presented the works on the MiG-PAK-DP/41. If the UAC presents not other project to the competition from other of their own design bureaus, no-one else can do it. Then, the MiG-PAK-DP/41 is the winner of the competition for sure.

I simply think we are in a previous state to that competition, a lot of study is necessary before being able to prepare it. We will see shortly!

You might be confusing the T-4M programme with the Tu-160?

https://www.testpilot.ru/russia/sukhoi/t/4/ms/

googletranslate wrote: At the end of the meeting, the Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force, P.S. Kutakhov, spoke: “You know, let's solve this. Yes, the OKO Sukhoi OKB project is better, we gave it its due, but it was already involved in the development of the Su-27 fighter, which we really need. Therefore, we will take this decision: we recognize that the winner of the competition is the Sukhoi Design Bureau, we will be obliged to transfer all materials to the Tupolev Design Bureau, so that it can carry out further work ... ”

The final Tu-160 bares basically no relationship to the Sukhoi design but the point is that the winner was Sukhoi who then were forced to transfer the design info to Tupolev for completion.

In the same way a new gen Interceptor can be MiG-41 even if MiG don't win the design competition.

It was a huge mistake of Russia government wasting money in Pak-fa..based on their limited budget.. they should have gone instead for mig-41 from the start.. instead of Pak-fa.. Because that plane interceptor main mission will be to kill battle groups formations with nuclear armed hypersonic missiles.

So there are 3 major things Russia needs to really, outmatch NATO , and counter their Naval assets anywhere in the world..

So what Russia military , Really needs more than anything?
from top priority to less one. Russia needs...

1)A Mesosphere near space orbit Bomber..it could be subsonic or supersonic but it needs to fly very high in near space orbit /satellites orbit.. Something in the lines of the size of a big space shuttle but for military purposes . that can launch similar power from air at high altitude ,that Russian Ballistic submariness can do..like a flying submarine with wings, that can hover above NATO battle groups and drop very big and powerful nukes , like satan 2 or even Tzar bomb..with 50 megatons.,armed with nukes from above their positions. In wars positioning in the right place , with the right military hardware can make the diference between a victory or defeat.. and what is above ,can dominate what is below. using Plasma Stealth and Electronic warfare ,Russia will make stealthy their bomber to NATO warships formations. THe main job of this super heavy near space orbit bomber should be to destroy NATO satellites networks but also ,take down a hundred of them but also to penetrate US territory and drop massive nukes at any place ,enter their airspace in a surprise attack with very heavy nukes .. for maximum scare factor..

2)Russia also need a stealth version of Tu-160 ,next generation ,for strategic bombing ,focused for Speed , it should be hypersonic and stealth for conventional warfare but that also can be used for tactical nuclear precise strikes. Main focus should be to target Aircraft carriers battle groups and also penetrate countries airspace ,at high speed and drop x12 of hypersonic missiles like kinzhal..

3)Finally Russia needs an Mig-41 ,with super sonic or hypersonic speeds ,for smaller conflicts ,closer to Russia.. their main goal should be to kick NATO away from the artic and the proximity of Russian waters in case of war..also should be able to fire up to 3 hypersonic missiles..

-So the heavy space shuttle Bomber used for a dooms day.. with a dozen (x12) of them will be fine for Russia..
to take down NATO communications in space and drop very heavy nukes in any place.

-a next generation stealth version of Tu-160 should be build in the (x50) of them..

-and a next generation mig-41 , should be build in the (x250) of them.. Mig-41 could be used to hit and run
american F-22 and F-35s. and their AWACS..

In other words.. Russia should counter NATO navies with Air and space superiority.. building slow moving
warships is a mistake.. for a conflict with NATO ,that can operate in many zones and attack Russia from all sides..
Russia will need speed and radar evasion with electronic warfare powerful very fast airforce.

If Putin stopped wasting money in Olympics and sports ,the money will show up ..for taking Russia nuclear
deterrence to a totally new level. that NATO will not be able to counter in a long time..

as a bonus Laser defenses across all Russia in Ground and in space.. US is working in weaponization of space
so at any time they will abandon their space treaties. and Russia should be prepared.

GarryB wrote:Better radar would be a given, but will they remain in the 50 ton MTOW range class or will they go heavier to a Tu-22M3 weight aircraft in the 120 ton weight... or perhaps something in the middle like an 80 ton aircraft?

This is from 2014 (Alexander Tarnai, member of the State Duma Committee on defense):

The analysis of open military programs of the leading countries of the world suggests that today in the world and in the next 10-15 years there will be aviation system comparable to the aircraft speed, rate of climb, the practical ceiling and other flight characteristics, as well as the effectiveness within the given interval of its combat use.
...
Our audit showed that the data about the lack of engines is not true. It turned out that at PMZ and storage depots are more than 600 of these engines, technical condition which after reconditioning will ensure the upgrading and production of more than 300 aircraft of this type with the provision of prescribed technical parameters of the service life for a period of 15-20 years.Aircraft plant "Sokol" in Nizhny Novgorod region and aircraft repair plants, preserved production capacity, technological infrastructure, staffing and documentation necessary for the resumption of work.
...
Based on the above and other available data, it can be stated that the approval of many aviation experts about the uniqueness of the MiG-31 is based on a real basis. A number of key performance characteristics of the aircraft and its modifications have already created either today or in the next decade, unlikely to be surpassed in the complex, either in Russia or abroad for the following:
...
According to estimates by aviation experts, military scientists and experts, the MiG-31 with its vast potential for modernization, is the most promising for consideration as a basis for the decision of tasks of EKR, strategic reconnaissance, attack aircraft, long-range, rapid output at low-earth orbit small satellites for various purposes, etc. This is confirmed by numerous works of the 2nd TSNII MO RF, MOSCOW RF Ministry of defense research Institute and civil departments.

Given the above, to strengthen the effective aerospace defense system, it seems appropriate to take the decision to start R & d on the creation of a new model of aircraft based on the MiG-31 and included in the State armament programme for 2016-2025 section "R & d on the development of advanced aircraft – complex of the far interception based on the MiG-31 for the decision of tasks of ASD". Taking into account new technologies, materials, development, engine manufacturing, avionics combat efficiency of the said machines can be very high.

In addition, I believe it necessary to upgrade the existing fleet of MiG-31 to adopting new aircraft with better performance characteristics and combat capabilities. Available machine MiG-31M and engines to them it is advisable to use as prototypes and flying laboratories for aerodynamic studies, testing of propulsion systems, new structural materials, testing of airborne systems, military systems, etc.

Such solutions can ensure the delivery of Russia's Armed Forces a unique combat complex to perform the tasks of the SAI in a relatively short period.

Actually the whole article is worth reading:

https://vpk-news.ru/articles/19183

Two key aspects:
> MiG-31 is acknowledged as far superior compared to domestic and foreign analogues, and is expected to continue so for the next 10-15 years (said in 2014)
> A new design needs to be done, based on MiG-31

So even when we hear about so many exotic characteristics I would say a much more "down to earth" evolutionary model will be developed, given the MiG-31 is still considered to have so much potential

LMFS wrote:

GarryB wrote:Better radar would be a given, but will they remain in the 50 ton MTOW range class or will they go heavier to a Tu-22M3 weight aircraft in the 120 ton weight... or perhaps something in the middle like an 80 ton aircraft?

This is from 2014 (Alexander Tarnai, member of the State Duma Committee on defense):

The analysis of open military programs of the leading countries of the world suggests that today in the world and in the next 10-15 years there will be aviation system comparable to the aircraft speed, rate of climb, the practical ceiling and other flight characteristics, as well as the effectiveness within the given interval of its combat use.
...
Our audit showed that the data about the lack of engines is not true. It turned out that at PMZ and storage depots are more than 600 of these engines, technical condition which after reconditioning will ensure the upgrading and production of more than 300 aircraft of this type with the provision of prescribed technical parameters of the service life for a period of 15-20 years.Aircraft plant "Sokol" in Nizhny Novgorod region and aircraft repair plants, preserved production capacity, technological infrastructure, staffing and documentation necessary for the resumption of work.
...
Based on the above and other available data, it can be stated that the approval of many aviation experts about the uniqueness of the MiG-31 is based on a real basis. A number of key performance characteristics of the aircraft and its modifications have already created either today or in the next decade, unlikely to be surpassed in the complex, either in Russia or abroad for the following:
...
According to estimates by aviation experts, military scientists and experts, the MiG-31 with its vast potential for modernization, is the most promising for consideration as a basis for the decision of tasks of EKR, strategic reconnaissance, attack aircraft, long-range, rapid output at low-earth orbit small satellites for various purposes, etc. This is confirmed by numerous works of the 2nd TSNII MO RF, MOSCOW RF Ministry of defense research Institute and civil departments.

Given the above, to strengthen the effective aerospace defense system, it seems appropriate to take the decision to start R & d on the creation of a new model of aircraft based on the MiG-31 and included in the State armament programme for 2016-2025 section "R & d on the development of advanced aircraft – complex of the far interception based on the MiG-31 for the decision of tasks of ASD". Taking into account new technologies, materials, development, engine manufacturing, avionics combat efficiency of the said machines can be very high.

In addition, I believe it necessary to upgrade the existing fleet of MiG-31 to adopting new aircraft with better performance characteristics and combat capabilities. Available machine MiG-31M and engines to them it is advisable to use as prototypes and flying laboratories for aerodynamic studies, testing of propulsion systems, new structural materials, testing of airborne systems, military systems, etc.

Such solutions can ensure the delivery of Russia's Armed Forces a unique combat complex to perform the tasks of the SAI in a relatively short period.

Actually the whole article is worth reading:

https://vpk-news.ru/articles/19183

Two key aspects:
> MiG-31 is acknowledged as far superior compared to domestic and foreign analogues, and is expected to continue so for the next 10-15 years (said in 2014)
> A new design needs to be done, based on MiG-31

So even when we hear about so many exotic characteristics I would say a much more "down to earth" evolutionary model will be developed, given the MiG-31 is still considered to have so much potential

The details that we know about the MiG-41 can not be achieved by a development based on the MiG-31.

LMFS wrote:
Two key aspects:
> MiG-31 is acknowledged as far superior compared to domestic and foreign analogues, and is expected to continue so for the next 10-15 years (said in 2014)
> A new design needs to be done, based on MiG-31

So even when we hear about so many exotic characteristics I would say a much more "down to earth" evolutionary model will be developed, given the MiG-31 is still considered to have so much potential

Corrections:
(1) the new design  does not need to be based on MiG-31 but it was only proposal. Proposal not actually accepted by MoD. They wanted a new fighter
(2) MiG-31 is very easy to be best since it the only one in its class      

eehnie wrote:The details that we know about the MiG-41 can not be achieved by a development based on the MiG-31.

That's more less what Russian MoD said

Hole wrote:Not only the impact, but the range. The old MiG-25RB could deliver a 500kg bomb from 40km away with the toss-bomb method, flying in 18.000m with M2.5.

The last variant retired in 2013 a flight to Monchegorsk and one other to Voronej IIRC about 15 birds

For Soviets/Russians aircrafts Gordon author which have do some books especialy  Famous Russian Aicraft Serie is also good than some say ?

For me Yefim Gordon is the best in english. Very good written. Lot of info. And no political bias (BS).

Hole wrote:For me Yefim Gordon is the best in english. Very good written. Lot of info. And no political bias (BS).

Yefim Gordon rulez

Very comprehensive biography of VSTOL fighters

GunshipDemocracy wrote:Corrections:
(1) the new design  does not need to be based on MiG-31 but it was only proposal. Proposal not actually accepted by MoD. They wanted a new fighter

A new fighter not based in MiG-31, like MiG-31 was not based in MiG-25 right?  

(2) MiG-31 is very easy to be best since it the only one in its class      

Oh wait, the only (quoting you) "fighter-interceptor" in the world right? Screw F-15s, F-22s, Eurofighters, Tornados etc etc.

eehnie wrote:The details that we know about the MiG-41 can not be achieved by a development based on the MiG-31.

That's more less what Russian MoD said

Exactly, in fact they said they want a STOVL interceptor

LMFS wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:Corrections:
(1) the new design  does not need to be based on MiG-31 but it was only proposal. Proposal not actually accepted by MoD. They wanted a new fighter

A new fighter not based in MiG-31, like MiG-31 was not based in MiG-25 right?  

(2) MiG-31 is very easy to be best since it the only one in its class      

Oh wait, the only (quoting you) "fighter-interceptor" in the world right? Screw F-15s, F-22s, Eurofighters, Tornados etc etc.

eehnie wrote:The details that we know about the MiG-41 can not be achieved by a development based on the MiG-31.

That's more less what Russian MoD said

Exactly, in fact they said they want a STOVL interceptor

...and also in this thread GD and LMFS end up talking about STOVL.

About the passage between -31 and -41, designing a completely new plane and start back with production of already existing planes (obviously with modification & updates) are not exclusive one of the other.
One would be carried on by the selected design bureau, other by the MiG production plant.
Once design work would be almost ready, no new batches of old birds would be awarded and preparatory work for large scale production of the new one would be started.
Same that's happening with Tupolev, waiting for PAK-DA they will produce updated versions of Tu-22 and Tu-122.

Issue with designing the next generation if interceptors is the power-plant and metallurgy (For the aircraft's frame) for above mach 3. Turbojet can only produce so much power before they become irrelevant (Due to RPM limitations). Some have said it'll most likely use Air-Turbo Ramjets/ Pure Ramjet but as we know, ramjets consume a lot of fuel.