Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues
GarryB wrote:To be fair it was very easy for Russia to take the route they took because they simply could not waste that amount of money and resources on such things the way the US did.
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Russian Air Force should soon be able to routinely fly traditionally manned combat aircraft in tandem with unmanned aircraft. So maybe that's why Kremlin is not placing more orders for Su-57.LMFS wrote:Then the 76 units order came and your lot astutely crawled beneath the rocks they came out from, not to make it even clearer that they had been full of shit for the last 20 years. Now you say they cannot afford the plane, despite them ordering it in big amounts and proceeding at high pace with the further modernization of the design and ramp up of the production. Or that they increasing procurement of 4.5G planes, when the facts are the exact opposite.
Sujoy wrote:Russian Air Force should soon be able to routinely fly traditionally manned combat aircraft in tandem with unmanned aircraft. So maybe that's why Kremlin is not placing more orders for Su-57.
Su-57, Su-30SM, Su-35 flying in tandem with a UCAV like Mig SKAT can penetrate even a difficult Air Defense network like the Chinese Air Defense.
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Nice! We will now have to see what the optimum mix of manned and unmanned aircraft would be for the Russian Force now that RuAF fly traditionally manned combat aircraft in tandem with UAVs.GarryB wrote:The Su-57 is a new design that is largely untested.... no country on the planet has deployed thousands of 5th gen fighters... more importantly attempting to do so with the F-35 will likely bankrupt the west... I think it is very much a case of transferal... what western experts are saying is that we don't need so many F-35s because they are going to bankrupt us... so our argument will be that Russia wont be buying many Su-57s so perhaps we don't need 3,500 F-35s... but the problem is that the Su-57 might not be that much more expensive than Su-35s and if they have better performance why not make a few hundred of them...
Nice! We will now have to see what the optimum mix of manned and unmanned aircraft would be for the Russian Force now that RuAF fly traditionally manned combat aircraft in tandem with UAVs.
A good read, throwback to 1999...
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The USAF has many dozens of C-130s, 146 C-17s, & 36 C-5s , which could carry 1.5-2x more ALCMs. They could also drop naval mines. Huge force multipliers!
The F-35s will fly with drones, will have lasers & EW/directed energy weapons , so it's too early to call them useless & total failure
I bet the F-22 saga will be a repeat of the F-15 & F-18 sagas- i.e. deep modernization of a proven platform.
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The USAF has many dozens of C-130s, 146 C-17s, & 36 C-5s , which could carry 1.5-2x more ALCMs. They could also drop naval mines. Huge force multipliers!
no, they r stand-off LRCMs with 940km range. If need be, airworthy old C-130s in storage &/ near retirement could be converted to drones & carry ALCMs, & so their loss won't matter much.Big easy to shoot down targets, which if used as cruise missile carriers will be targeted by enemy forces and pretty soon you will struggle to move anything because you have no transport planes available any more.
China can assemble a huge invasion force to swarm Taiwanese waters, so ships & subs won't be enough to deal with it.The US Navy has enormous numbers of vertical launch missile tubes for cruise missiles anyway... the missiles are just too expensive to use in enormous numbers.
The F-35s will fly with drones, will have lasers & EW/directed energy weapons , so it's too early to call them useless & total failure
even after NGAD is developed, they'll keep the F-35s; a good lesson learned doesn't come cheap.Any plane you want to add lasers and directed energy weapons is going to become very very expensive... the fact that they plane they want to start with is already very very expensive already and expensive just to fly suggests they are thrashing around trying to find a use for the expensive useless plane... which will waste more money... A C-5M Galaxy would be cheaper to operate per hour than a single F-35...
I bet the F-22 saga will be a repeat of the F-15 & F-18 sagas- i.e. deep modernization of a proven platform.
perhaps not by putting back into production, but by modernizing the existing airframes so they can control drones & operate with F-35s & F-15EXs, not to mention other AF's & naval fighters.What? Cancelled because of some hooky concept that was never properly thought through and always more expensive than useful (Stealth) but kept in use because the stuff that is going to replace it ends up being a failure so eventually they are going to put it back into production because the cheap replacement will turn out too expensive to continue?
Will and could - future tenses. All wet dreams, really, to cope with the fact that the Russians are steadily outpacing their opponents in technology: the Russian aerospace forces are nearing completion of their massive modernization drive replacing legacy Soviet hardware with modern 21st century Russian equivalents and even now are working on introducing the next gen. Take for example the S-400 - was initiated much later than the F-35, but entered service much faster and has already replaced the Cold war S-300s as the mainstay of the Russian strategic SAM arsenal. They are even going to introduce the S-500 next year. Meanwhile, the F-35s are struggling to get into service and as of today are not a viable combat force. If a war breaks out it would be dated F-16/15/18 that would be fighting against ultra-modern S-400s and their similarly up-to-date complements.Tsavo Lion wrote:https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a38584553/air-force-turns-cargo-plane-into-bomber/
The USAF has many dozens of C-130s, 146 C-17s, & 36 C-5s, which could carry 1.5-2x more ALCMs. They could also drop naval mines. Huge force multipliers!
The F-35s will fly with drones, will have lasers & EW/directed energy weapons, so it's too early to call them useless & total failure.
I bet the F-22 saga will be a repeat of the F-15 & F-18 sagas- i.e. deep modernization of a proven platform.
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Meanwhile, the F-35s are struggling to get into service and as of today are not a viable wrote:
FYI, they r all being upgraded; drones & CM will be targeting S-400s. From the video in the link I posted, the F-22s would be upgraded & kept till 2060.the Russian aerospace forces are nearing completion of their massive modernization drive replacing legacy Soviet hardware with modern 21st century Russian equivalents and even now are working on introducing the next gen. ..If a war breaks out it would be dated F-16/15/18 that would be fighting against ultra-modern S-400s and their similarly up-to-date complements.
even Finland ordered 64 F-35s for $9.4B, & Morocco Wants F-35 Fighters To ‘Ward Off’ Algeria That Plans To Acquire Russian Su-57 Jets.The USA already has around 700 F 35 and in a decade it will be 1500.
And of those 700 how many are combat effective? A small fraction maybe, not even that? We're talking actual in service hardware here not just stuff that escaped the factory floor with a myriad of tests and or retrofitting to be completed before it could be a certified combatant. In a decade the Russians would have the S-500 in numbers and might even be introducing the successor so that makes what, 2 generations ahead?Arrow wrote:
The USA already has around 700 F 35 and in a decade it will be 1500.
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Subsonic cruise missiles lack the numbers to saturate an S-400 battalion rocking its point defense complement of Pantsirs, jammers, and decoys.Tsavo Lion wrote:
FYI, they r all being upgraded; drones & CM will be targeting S-400s. From the video in the link I posted, the F-22s would be upgraded & kept till 2060.
They opted out because they couldn't afford paying for the hefty development costs while insisting to be given technology for pennies on the dollar. Who gives a shit what they say?Tsavo Lion wrote:
Ask the Indians why they opted out of the Su-57 program.
Good news - for the Russians and the Algerians. Finland and Morocco would barely be able to keep their militaries afloat after burning their procurement funds on white elephants that the Russians have developed effective counters to.Tsavo Lion wrote:
even Finland ordered 64 F-35s for $9.4B, & Morocco Wants F-35 Fighters To ‘Ward Off’ Algeria That Plans To Acquire Russian Su-57 Jets.
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if all else fails, tactical nukes could be used against "the mainstay of the Russian strategic SAM arsenal." It could happen even more likely in a war with S-400 importers. An EMP warhead will fry their radars from over 400km.Subsonic cruise missiles lack the numbers to saturate an S-400 battalion rocking its point defense complement of Pantsirs, jammers, and decoys.
Yeah right. Blow up the planetwide taboo on nuclear weapons and become a pariah even worse than NK and all over some missile battalion.Tsavo Lion wrote:
if all else fails, tactical nukes could be used against "the mainstay of the Russian strategic SAM arsenal." It could happen even more likely in a war with S-400 importers.
You owned yourself in the same sentence. I'm impressed.Tsavo Lion wrote:
If the Su-57 was that good, China would be buying them to complement the J-20s, like they got the Su-35s.
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Tsavo Lion wrote:
if all else fails, tactical nukes could be used against "the mainstay of the Russian strategic SAM arsenal." It could happen even more likely in a war with S-400 importers.
if the EMP warheads r used, no big deal. Solar flares disrupted communications before.Yeah right. Blow up the planetwide taboo on nuclear weapons and become a pariah even worse than NK and all over some missile battalion.
Tsavo Lion wrote:If the Su-57 was that good, China would be buying them to complement the J-20s, like they got the Su-35s.
not only they didn't buy them, but the MiG-31s offered years ago as well. So, to them the Su-35s r more valuable, & their J-31 will not be only for the PLAN.You owned yourself in the same sentence. I'm impressed.
no, they'll be stand-off but smaller & cheaper LRCMs. Many airworthy old C-130s in storage &/ near retirement could be converted to drones & carry ALCMs, & so their loss won't matter much.
China can assemble a huge invasion force to swarm Taiwanese waters, so ships & subs won't be enough to deal with it.
; a good lesson learned doesn't come cheap.
perhaps not by putting back into production, but by modernizing the existing airframes so they can control drones &
Take for example the S-400 - was initiated much later than the F-35, but entered service much faster and has already replaced the Cold war S-300s as the mainstay of the Russian strategic SAM arsenal.
The USA already has around 700 F 35 and in a decade it will be 1500.
FYI, they r all being upgraded; drones & CM will be targeting S-400s.
From the video in the link I posted, the F-22s would be upgraded & kept till 2060.
Ask the Indians why they opted out of the Su-57 program.
even Finland ordered 64 F-35s for $9.4B , & Morocco Wants F-35 Fighters To ‘Ward Off’ Algeria That Plans To Acquire Russian Su-57 Jets.
if all else fails, tactical nukes could be used against "the mainstay of the Russian strategic SAM arsenal." It could happen even more likely in a war with S-400 importers.
If the Su-57 was that good, China would be buying them to complement the J-20s, like they got the Su-35s.
Yeah right. Blow up the planetwide taboo on nuclear weapons and become a pariah even worse than NK and all over some missile battalion.
Good job. Great plan
Note how the NATzO fanbois trot out the F-35 as some epic win that will crush all opposition. The
retardation is cringe dialed to max.
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