Libyan Crisis

JohninMK wrote:

ahmedfire wrote:

par far wrote:"Turkey To Deploy Forces In Libya Within Two Days – Report."

Am I the only one that thinks, that this will end badly for Turkey.

https://southfront.org/turkey-to-deploy-forces-in-libya-within-two-days-report/

It will be a drama for them if they sent their army , i guess they gonna use some terrorists to fight for them to avoid high losses in turkish army .

Please understand that they will not be terrorists, they will be freedom loving souls in search of a bit R&R in the sun and sand of the beaches of Libya. This is a winter holiday

That's CNN

Egyptian navy today's maneuver in the mediterranean , Ka-52 with Apache on Mistral .

Nice.

Interesting they tie down light anti aircraft vehicles in each corner of the deck to add to the air defence capacity of the vessel.

With the tie down points I wonder if they have electrical connections there too, so the vehicle doesn't need to run its motor all the time.

Would be interesting to use Tunguska in such a role as its combination of guns and missiles would make it rather more potent, though their might be issues with EM interference with its search and tracking radars. Perhaps a compromise where the vehicle is a towed trailer mount that is simplified and cheaper without its search radar and with only a small engine to move it around when needed... a cable combining electrical power from the ship to the mount could include a fibre optic cable providing a link to the combat system so in effect it would become a node with the ship itself being the command module handing off targets its search radars detect so each module uses its own tracking radar and missiles and guns to deal with targets managed from the ship... you could plug in as many add on systems as you liked as well as the core systems built in to the ship...

Interesting.

GarryB wrote:Nice.

Interesting they tie down light anti aircraft vehicles in each corner of the deck to add to the air defence capacity of the vessel.

With the tie down points I wonder if they have electrical connections there too, so the vehicle doesn't need to run its motor all the time.

Would be interesting to use Tunguska in such a role as its combination of guns and missiles would make it rather more potent, though their might be issues with EM interference with its search and tracking radars. Perhaps a compromise where the vehicle is a towed trailer mount that is simplified and cheaper without its search radar and with only a small engine to move it around when needed... a cable combining electrical power from the ship to the mount could include a fibre optic cable providing a link to the combat system so in effect it would become a node with the ship itself being the command module handing off targets its search radars detect so each module uses its own tracking radar and missiles and guns to deal with targets managed from the ship... you could plug in as many add on systems as you liked as well as the core systems built in to the ship...

Interesting.

The Humvee-based vehicles carry up to eight FIM-92 Stinger anti-air missiles and also have an M3P .50-caliber machine gun ,  Russia is still holding discussions with Egypt over over outfit of the Mistral , i guess  two 3M-47 Gibka turrets with Igla-S missiles and two AK-630 rotary cannons would be great.

a cable combining electrical power from the ship to the mount could include a fibre optic cable providing a link to the combat system so in effect it would become a node with the ship itself being the command module handing off targets its search radars detect so each module uses its own tracking radar and missiles and guns to deal with targets managed from the ship

That's a good point , thanks .

GarryB wrote:Nice.

Interesting they tie down light anti aircraft vehicles in each corner of the deck to add to the air defence capacity of the vessel.

With the tie down points I wonder if they have electrical connections there too, so the vehicle doesn't need to run its motor all the time.

I expect they will just run jumper cables along the deck from nearby distribution panels.

The Humvee-based vehicles carry up to eight FIM-92 Stinger anti-air missiles and also have an M3P .50-caliber machine gun , Russia is still holding discussions with Egypt over over outfit of the Mistral , i guess two 3M-47 Gibka turrets with Igla-S missiles and two AK-630 rotary cannons would be great.

Certainly organic air defence systems would be sensible, but a trailer based TOR system could be an option too... both on the vessel and in place of those Humvee vehicles too... they could be trailer mounts towed out there by a light vehicle used to tow aircraft, and cable tied in.... plug them in to the power supply and wireless link to the air defence network of the ship. Four mounts... one on each corner of the deck could have the tracking radars, the wireless connection provides target data via the main ship search radar, and you could place extra launch bins in empty corners of the deck that just hold missiles ready to fire with power cables and a wireless link... you could have as many missiles ready to fire as you need... the missiles themselves are cheap command guided weapons with no terminal seeker, but are rather accurate and designed to hit munitions and missiles as well as aircraft...

Recep Tayyip Erdogan: Turkey has begun deploying troops to Libya for “coordination and stability,” ,

Well we don't know when , where and what kind of forces he sent ,there is no even a photo for the slodiers or hardware , so i guess he is still depending on his terrorists from syria .

I doubt it's that easy to integrate completely different sea and land systems together nevermind those made by different countries altogether.

And a TOR will be even more trouble as it is seperate from NATO standards.

Well they were going to fit Russian weapons to this ship, so it wouldn't be impossible... some sort of interface hardware and software should solve the problem... passing target data to the mounts and enabling it to respond to the command system shouldn't be that hard.

They all speak the same language.... the language of maths.

He said no ground forces but mainly specialist and they will use non turkish fighter so those from idlib.

Sounds like he has worked out a way of using some of his terrorists up... Yemen next?

Libyan National Army gains control of third largest district in Libya’s Sirte

Again , turkish vehicles are captured by LNA , thanks turkey

https://twitter.com/MLNA27/status/1214255208106254338

I'm amazed at peoples reaction here and on Twitter regarding Turkey's involvement in Libya. Why are people even bothered about Turkey sending men and material to Libya. Turkey sending more "men" to Libya is good news for Syria.

I hope Russia is motivating Turkey even more, so that all the terrorists inside Syria is shipped back to Libya. It will help in faster liberation and cleansing Syria of NATO Jihadis.

Remember that, the Syrian situation went worse after NATO Jihadis started arriving from Libya to Syria once their "main work" was over in Libya.

Dima wrote:I'm amazed at peoples reaction here and on Twitter regarding Turkey's involvement in Libya. Why are people even bothered about Turkey sending men and material to Libya. Turkey sending more "men" to Libya is good news for Syria.

I hope Russia is motivating Turkey even more, so that all the terrorists inside Syria is shipped back to Libya. It will help in faster liberation and cleansing Syria of NATO Jihadis.

Remember that, the Syrian situation went worse after NATO Jihadis started arriving from Libya to Syria once their "main work" was over in Libya.

No , if turkey controlled libya , they will have more resources "money and men" to fund the terrorists in syria .

flamming_python wrote:Russia should find a way to slither out of this one silently

I think Russia should create conditions for Turkey to bleed as much as possible in Libya.

On the one hand, they should encourage Erdogan to send both the Syrian jihadis and the Turkish army to go to Libya, on the other hand they should supply Haftar's army with all the weapons it needs via Egypt (with money coming from the Saudis of course).

Dima wrote:I'm amazed at peoples reaction here and on Twitter regarding Turkey's involvement in Libya. Why are people even bothered about Turkey sending men and material to Libya. Turkey sending more "men" to Libya is good news for Syria.

I hope Russia is motivating Turkey even more, so that all the terrorists inside Syria is shipped back to Libya. It will help in faster liberation and cleansing Syria of NATO Jihadis.

Remember that, the Syrian situation went worse after NATO Jihadis started arriving from Libya to Syria once their "main work" was over in Libya.

x2

To the last bolded part: "The chicken will come home to roost"

ahmedfire wrote:

Dima wrote:I'm amazed at peoples reaction here and on Twitter regarding Turkey's involvement in Libya. Why are people even bothered about Turkey sending men and material to Libya. Turkey sending more "men" to Libya is good news for Syria.

I hope Russia is motivating Turkey even more, so that all the terrorists inside Syria is shipped back to Libya. It will help in faster liberation and cleansing Syria of NATO Jihadis.

Remember that, the Syrian situation went worse after NATO Jihadis started arriving from Libya to Syria once their "main work" was over in Libya.

No , if turkey controlled libya , they will have more resources "money and men" to fund the terrorists in syria .

Egypt should make sure Turkey fails to achieve its objectives by arming, equipping and training Haftar's forces. Geography is on Egypt's side: You have a border with Libya while Turkey does not.

flamming_python wrote:Russia should find a way to slither out of this one silently

Nah

This one is low risk-high payoff situation

Keep doing what you're doing and pass the popcorn

There is no need to integrate them. Tor has its own search radar and tracking radar and missiles in one vehicle. For self defence there no need of more.

Well there is really.

You can't just take a TOR battery and sit them on the deck of a carrier and expect them to operate normally... there will be issues with parts of the ships structure causing blind spots and of course the radars of the TOR vehicles effecting and being effected by the ships various radar and ESM and ECM equipment and navigation systems too.

The Russians have developed a small deck mounted system with vertically mounted ready to fire missiles and a tracking radar... sitting those on the deck tied down with cables so you can remove them if you like... connect them to the local power so they are always ready and don't need to run generators to be ready, and also connect them to the information feed of the main ships search radar which should offer better performance than any system mounted on a vehicle, so the deck mounted systems just need to point their tracking radars in the suitable direction and scan for targets and then launch a missile which the tracking radar directs to impact.

Having four of these deck mounted trailers would allow most directions to be covered at one time and you could have half a dozen extra mounts that are cheaper and have no radar at all... they just contain 12 or 24 ready to launch missiles to be guided by one of the deck mounted trailers with a tracking radar.

There will be lots of places on deck where you wont be using at any time and if you need that space undo the cable and roll it out of the way... if it is quiet take it below deck and push it into a corner... or attach a towing vehicle and put it on a landing boat and deliver it to shore to operate with a TOR battery on land to defend forces during the landing...

This system made of manpad is totally useless. I would fear in danger if this was the only air defence system protecting my ship.

Old TOR is a capable system with a 12km range and decent accuracy able to take out enemy weapons in flight as well as aircraft... the new model has smaller faster longer ranged missiles that can be carried in double the numbers with all the weapons ready to fire in vertical launch tubes able to fly off in any direction needed... they are an excellent system... the new ones can reach 20km range and 15km altitude.

Keep in mind that this is a helicopter carrier so it will be operating with a few destroyers and perhaps cruisers so it wont be fighting the enemy on its own... even the Ka-52 attack helo it carries has an AESA radar and can use R-77 AAMs if needed.

Would like to see Turkey sending all their nastiest terrorists from Idlib and elsewhere to fight and hopefully die in Libya, it would be the best result all round... they can just send the terrorists and leave the Turkish soldiers offshore in a standoff support role...