Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors

kvs wrote:http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/64331/

The 8 core Elbrus CPU is now sampling.  It has a frequency of 1.3 GHz and a nominal 250 gigaflop rating.
The 8 core Intel i7-5960X has a nominal 350 gigaflop rating.

I believe the higher flop rating for the Intel is due solely to the fact that it can do SIMD 64 bit floating
operations.   The Elbrus flop count reduces by a factor of two when doing 64 bit math.    This should be
urgently addressed.   Even so you can see the VLIW performance when a 1.3 GHz CPU manages to get
flop rates close to a 3-3.5 GHz CPU.

It is ironic that a VLIW processor was not equipped with vector floating point.   I think they were too
conservative in the design targets back in the 1990s and this has become a legacy burden.   The need
to expand the floating point width from 32 bits to 64 bits and they need to include vector FPUs.

Neutrality wrote:

kvs wrote:http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/64331/

The 8 core Elbrus CPU is now sampling.  It has a frequency of 1.3 GHz and a nominal 250 gigaflop rating.
The 8 core Intel i7-5960X has a nominal 350 gigaflop rating.

I believe the higher flop rating for the Intel is due solely to the fact that it can do SIMD 64 bit floating
operations.   The Elbrus flop count reduces by a factor of two when doing 64 bit math.    This should be
urgently addressed.   Even so you can see the VLIW performance when a 1.3 GHz CPU manages to get
flop rates close to a 3-3.5 GHz CPU.

It is ironic that a VLIW processor was not equipped with vector floating point.   I think they were too
conservative in the design targets back in the 1990s and this has become a legacy burden.   The need
to expand the floating point width from 32 bits to 64 bits and they need to include vector FPUs.

Baby steps. Also, consider for a moment the patents that Intel holds. AMD lincenses its x86 CPU architecture from Intel and Intel licenses the 64bit architecture from AMD.

Construction company PSJ from the Czech Republic completed the construction in the suburban town of Dubna. Now there would be a new plant CJSC Svyaz engineering" for the production of computer circuit boards. The official launch of the plant will take place in the near future. In the implementation of the project was invested 46,21 million euros. The construction of this industrial facility has become the largest export order for a turnkey company. Directly in addition to the construction company was engaged in the installation of production lines and equipment of the entire complex. wrote:

As is known, the Russian company MCST, part of the United Instrument Corporation (OPK), announced for 2016 serial production of the latest domestic OCTA-core processor Elbrus-8C technology 28 nm.
According to the statement of the General Director of OPK Alexander Yakunin: now Elbrus 8C is tested and at the end of the year should go to the state tests.
And here in July, Vladimir Putin expressed confidence that the domestic use of microprocessors Elbrus will not remain the lot of only the military, and soon spread to many civil industry.
Mentioned presidential statement was made at the it forum "Territory of meanings on the Klyazma" during the meeting of Putin with young scientists. Here's what was said, almost verbatim:
Y. Ivanik: Good afternoon, Mr Putin. My name is Yuri Ivanik. I came from Krasnodar, of Academy IMSIT, student.
I have a question. Asked a question about import substitution. I know that MCST, if I'm not mistaken, has developed a processor architecture Elbrus-M, but at the moment it is only available to certain institutions and, in my opinion, some military. Such question: whether it is available to civil or it will remain as defense part?
Vladimir Putin: You know, any discoveries, achievements, and developments in the military for the needs of defense and security sooner or later be consigned civil industries and civic life. The Internet, as of this began. Intelligence was developed 30 years ago, and then began to introduce. First, for correspondence in the States, and then wider and wider.
Into space how people flew? What did you work on? Over the means of delivery of a nuclear warhead — that worked for. And Queens has worked on it, among other things, first and foremost, and then all civil program. We have.
We are still our partners and competitors "will rejoice" our latest developments in the field of defence and security. But what we will show, we won't keep forever secret, one way or another will be used in civil industries. And this [development Elbrus] too, of course.
Elbrus were supported by the state?
In a press-service of the defence industry, which includes the company MCST, in an interview with CNews.ru stated that it was not initiated such a question to Putin, and the Corporation and the company MCST did not participate in the forum "Territory of meanings on the Klyazma".
However, the process looks like and the last statement of the President suggests that in our electronics really began tectonic shifts.
Try to understand yourself, what is actually happening and how MP Elbrus is planned to be used and applied in various spheres of Russian electronics and related areas. To do this, let's just look at a plan of import substitution in the electronic industry of Russia and look for the word Elbrus.
In addition, the plan provides for the creation on the basis of domestic processor, the following components for the mass market:
• Tablet for the mass market and the hardware platform of the Russian production to create a line of tablets
• Tablet for organizations and institutions (with high requirements for data protection) on the basis of domestic hardware platform, including protected
• Personal supercomputer is a high — performance workstation and equipment for a range of finished devices
• Home-based routers local network
• Telecommunication equipment
• Medical equipment
• Microwave electronics
• Led technology
• and much more
Well, as they say, draw your own conclusions ...
Sources:
http://minpromtorg.gov.ru...upload/files/docs/662.PDF
http://www.cnews.ru/top/2...danskoe_primenenie_597538
http://mcst.ru/vosmiyader...or-s-arkhitekturoj-elbrus
http://mcst.ru/arm-elbrus401
http://mcst.ru/server_elbrus-4.4

Austin wrote:Who uses these machines in the end , They dont seem to be available on Commercial Shelf to compete with IBM., HP or Dell.

How much of this is commerically viable or is it just restricted to Government use ?

sepheronx wrote:Just curious why they went with both Elbrus cpu and Baikal, since both will eventually be competing.

sepheronx wrote:
Russia's AESA development seems to be going quite well, but the whole setup in terms of media information and open information is so clouded that I have absolutely no idea what is what and who makes what.  I am aware Istok makes some.  Then I am aware that there is another company making them.  Then we get tidbit information of radar systems to be used on ships that are using Russian made GaN modules of roughly 30W each, but we get little no details afterwards.  Apparently there is evidence that the T/R modules for the N036 are roughly 10 - 15W each, but there is some conflicting info if the Zhuk-A uses 5W or 10W modules.  There was apparent issues with cooling the modules which caused issues in terms of performance, but I don't know if they fixed it or not, cause I have only heard rumors that the intended tests for N036 works, so that would mean that they operated in their intended purposes.  Two different companies, so possibly two different solutions to the same problem.

Now development on making GaAS/GaN modules much cheaper currently in works and using Photons rather than electrons for the semiconductors for future (by 2020).  So I have no real idea.  Not a lot of people do.  That guy Jo over at keypub obtains a ridiculous amounts of info on such things and I know Berkut also made mention as well.  So he is another good one that would possibly know more.

Militarov wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Russia's AESA development seems to be going quite well, but the whole setup in terms of media information and open information is so clouded that I have absolutely no idea what is what and who makes what.  I am aware Istok makes some.  Then I am aware that there is another company making them.  Then we get tidbit information of radar systems to be used on ships that are using Russian made GaN modules of roughly 30W each, but we get little no details afterwards.  Apparently there is evidence that the T/R modules for the N036 are roughly 10 - 15W each, but there is some conflicting info if the Zhuk-A uses 5W or 10W modules.  There was apparent issues with cooling the modules which caused issues in terms of performance, but I don't know if they fixed it or not, cause I have only heard rumors that the intended tests for N036 works, so that would mean that they operated in their intended purposes.  Two different companies, so possibly two different solutions to the same problem.

Now development on making GaAS/GaN modules much cheaper currently in works and using Photons rather than electrons for the semiconductors for future (by 2020).  So I have no real idea.  Not a lot of people do.  That guy Jo over at keypub obtains a ridiculous amounts of info on such things and I know Berkut also made mention as well.  So he is another good one that would possibly know more.

Yeah i was reading keyp abit on that matter however i see some "holes" in stories and data there, some stuff simply do not..go along. When its about cooling Russians should try working on two-phase cooling with liquid thats what they are doing on West now since they are also having increased issues with cooling and atm existing liquid cooling very soon wont be able to match heat generated by more powerful electronics especially radars and jammers.

When its about modules producers i belive second one you are mentioning should be Micran.

Their brochure: http://www.micran.com/sites/micran_eng/tmpl/default/p/files/Micran%20Company.pdf
Site: http://www.micran.com

Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....

Militarov wrote:

Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....

Yeah they did say they are using liquid cooling, thing is what kind of liquid to they use, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics are as you know nasty areas of engineering, alot of math that barely makes any sense even to people that are actually into it. Also i belive they use single stage liquid coolant systems as anyone else at this point anyways but, buttt if they manage to figure out those on West proposed future two stage coolants...that would make their life alot easier.

"Two phase-cooling systems outperform single-phase cooling systems for two key reasons. First, two-phase cooling takes advantage of not only the higher heat absorption capacity of the liquid (that is, sensible heat), but also the heat absorbed when the liquid vaporizes (that is, the heat of vaporization). Second, two-phase flow in cooling channels can support orders of magnitude higher heat flux than single-phase liquid flow at comparable coolant flow rates and thermal conditions. For some applications, a two-phase cooling system can operate with less than 50 percent of the flow rate required in single-phase systems. This directly translates into smaller pumps, fluid lines, and quick disconnects, and less pumping power, resulting in a much smaller thermal management system. The resulting higher energy dissipation capacity of a two-phase system is especially important for aircraft and pod applications where SWaP is critical."

Source: http://mil-embedded.com/articles/two-phase-meets-challenges-modern-radar-applications/

sepheronx wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....

Yeah they did say they are using liquid cooling, thing is what kind of liquid to they use, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics are as you know nasty areas of engineering, alot of math that barely makes any sense even to people that are actually into it. Also i belive they use single stage liquid coolant systems as anyone else at this point anyways but, buttt if they manage to figure out those on West proposed future two stage coolants...that would make their life alot easier.

"Two phase-cooling systems outperform single-phase cooling systems for two key reasons. First, two-phase cooling takes advantage of not only the higher heat absorption capacity of the liquid (that is, sensible heat), but also the heat absorbed when the liquid vaporizes (that is, the heat of vaporization). Second, two-phase flow in cooling channels can support orders of magnitude higher heat flux than single-phase liquid flow at comparable coolant flow rates and thermal conditions. For some applications, a two-phase cooling system can operate with less than 50 percent of the flow rate required in single-phase systems. This directly translates into smaller pumps, fluid lines, and quick disconnects, and less pumping power, resulting in a much smaller thermal management system. The resulting higher energy dissipation capacity of a two-phase system is especially important for aircraft and pod applications where SWaP is critical."

Source: http://mil-embedded.com/articles/two-phase-meets-challenges-modern-radar-applications/

There is also gas cooling too, but I don't know if they use that in terms of radar systems at all.  

I am curious what Rostec will come up with.  Since they have the funding and the facilities, I imagine they will come up with a cooling solution for Micran modules.

BTW+ to you on the Micran pdf.  Because it also has info on Micran's GaN modules which I have been trying to look for for sometime.

Militarov wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Alright, so Micran is the other company that makes them besides JSC Istok.  Odd thing is, Micran said their modules are used on MiG-35 Zhuk-A radar.  I thought Istok was the one that is used for the modules for MiG.  See, and this is where I was talking about information that is quite scewed.  As for cooling, they are using a method of liquid cooling from my understanding but it is still problematic.  They could have solved that issue though, I am not sure as I heard very little.

Micran is probably Russia's largest semiconductor company with the most modern lithography machinery in Russia (and lobbying for another $1.5B to further modernize it) and a recent member of a special economic zone.  So expect to see more of their products.  Since they make GaN as they said, then it will probably corner the Russian market (maybe even Istok too would end up being merged or losing out).  Dunno what to think about that....

Yeah they did say they are using liquid cooling, thing is what kind of liquid to they use, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics are as you know nasty areas of engineering, alot of math that barely makes any sense even to people that are actually into it. Also i belive they use single stage liquid coolant systems as anyone else at this point anyways but, buttt if they manage to figure out those on West proposed future two stage coolants...that would make their life alot easier.

"Two phase-cooling systems outperform single-phase cooling systems for two key reasons. First, two-phase cooling takes advantage of not only the higher heat absorption capacity of the liquid (that is, sensible heat), but also the heat absorbed when the liquid vaporizes (that is, the heat of vaporization). Second, two-phase flow in cooling channels can support orders of magnitude higher heat flux than single-phase liquid flow at comparable coolant flow rates and thermal conditions. For some applications, a two-phase cooling system can operate with less than 50 percent of the flow rate required in single-phase systems. This directly translates into smaller pumps, fluid lines, and quick disconnects, and less pumping power, resulting in a much smaller thermal management system. The resulting higher energy dissipation capacity of a two-phase system is especially important for aircraft and pod applications where SWaP is critical."

Source: http://mil-embedded.com/articles/two-phase-meets-challenges-modern-radar-applications/

There is also gas cooling too, but I don't know if they use that in terms of radar systems at all.  

I am curious what Rostec will come up with.  Since they have the funding and the facilities, I imagine they will come up with a cooling solution for Micran modules.

BTW+ to you on the Micran pdf.  Because it also has info on Micran's GaN modules which I have been trying to look for for sometime.

Well i assume, indirectly tho, this two stage liquid cooling uses vaporisation as cooling mechanism too, somewhat like our fridges do i guess. Oh, ty, glad to be of help.

"Steepness" CMO will help create miniature systems for space and aviation

Development allows 3-4 times to reduce the size and weight of devices



The combined instrument-making company has developed multi-chip assembly technology VLSI based on 3D-integration techniques, enabling 3-4 times to reduce the weight and size of the devices. On the basis of its already established an experimental model of a miniature on-board unit for the spacecraft and aircraft.

Development of technologies, code-named "steepness" engaged Concern "Constellation", the Research Institute of Electronic Technology in cooperation with NGOs Automatics. Academician NA Semikhatova.

A new technology based on 3D-integration techniques allows to increase the functionality of devices per unit area and volume, improve their performance, lower power consumption products. With it has made on-board processing unit, storage, and exchange of information with external devices that are used, for example, microminiature control systems of spacecraft.

Weight-board module based on the old planar technology of hybrid microcircuits of 38 grams, the new module - 10 grams, which is almost 4 times less. Dimensions reduced by 3 times - from 150 to 48 mm. In this functional characteristics remain unchanged.

"This technology can be called basic and advanced. Today, it can be used in parallel planar, but is intended to replace it in the future - said the chief designer of developmental work "steepness" Andrei Stoyanov. - The stock performance of the module created by this technology, many times the overall performance of its constituent elements. This makes it possible to apply the technology in the future with the most modern and productive elements of electronic components - ultrafast signal processing microprocessors, microcontrollers, memory circuits and other large volume. ".

Now on the basis of the concern "Constellation" is a further elaboration of technology to create a wide range of high-speed miniaturized multichip modules computing and control devices in the fields of space and aviation.

http://rostec.ru/news/4517313