The Situation in the Ukraine. #10

flamming_python wrote:In fact screw it, I'll tell you guys.

Recently, just out of curiousity's sake, I accousted one of these Ukrainian trolls on Youtube, who was in the middle of a shouting match with someone or other over something. I really shouldn't have, but I was genuinely interested as to what's actually going on in their minds, and whether it's actually possible to get something productive out of them.

I asked the question:

Me: Why aren't you at the front, hero?

The conversation with this sub-life specimen, then went exactly like this, word for word:

Him: Same question back to you! Why aren't you sucking dick?
Me: No really, why aren't you at the front? After all your country is being 'attacked'. If I myself really believed in such BS, in your place I would have gone.
Him: Cotton-jacket, suck it!!!! Aren't you capable of nothing else? Sterile degenarates!
Me: FFS is it really so hard to answer 1 question? I'm not even insulting you, or anything.
Me: You're a lost cause for human reasoning. You live in a world of illusions and rationalize with emotions and make-believe, rather than with hard facts. You better wake up.
Him: Cotton-jacket, suck it!!! Putin's calling you up, come and die on Great Ukrainian Land!
Me: No-one's calling me up, I'm from Russia not the Ukraine. It's you who's being called up, to fight on great Ukrainian land. Why aren't you going?
Him: Fool mobilization is also being prepared for you!? Why aren't you fighting!? Well you'll find out when you end up lost in the Donbass!
Me: We don't have any mobilization, I don't know who's been telling you fairy tales. However I know for a fact that in the Ukraine there is mobilization - and that's now a question for you - why aren't you going?
Him: Just you wait!
Me: Fuck, you're a real hero.

These people, these Kiev supporters, are completely irrational. They don't want to accept that the war their beloved Putschists started, to silence the people who didn't agree with their legitimate government being toppled, is crumbling apart and all their efforts, cyborgs, etc... have been for nothing - they've chosen the wrong course, and all they can do is just plug their head deeper and deeper into the sand. Truly retarded people. Truly. My god.

I really do not think there can be peace with them, as horrible as that sounds. A lot more killing and fighting will take place, until they back off, and their propaganda and foaming can be stopped. With each defeat, they just simply grow more desperate, more nationalistic and more aggressive and hateful, the amount of hate they spew against Russians is incredible - but I must say, it's the same on both sides now. Many Russians have nothing but revultion for them, and hate on all Ukrainians too - which is wrong. Blame the people that are to blame, not the ones which aren't.

So simple to put these trolls in their place. Simply ask: "how do you expect to win against Russia, if you cannot even beat a bunch of pissed off miners and volunteers?" Usually these people cannot think properly and think that an army incapable of fighting off a bunch of civies with weapons, will beat a full fledge military with far more modern equipment. Heck, even M1A1's and Apache helicopters and F-15/16's wouldn't even do a dent for Ukraine.

IF US provide attack drones to Kiev.. in the hundreds.. that can fly at civilian airlines altitude ,it will be ugly for the rebels.. Drones that do not produce much heat.. and hard to shutdown with manpads ,can be a nightmare for the rebels.. They will need many pantsirs defenses everywhere in the front line to counter that.. but also powerful GPS jammers.. to counter NATO GPS artillery.. and lots counter electronics to jam NATO counter artillery radars.  It can make very painful the life of Rebels..without a major support of Russia.. that could make obvious their help.

anyone knows how you can fool .. counter radar artillery? that detect where the enemy is firing artillery ,so that you
can fire back?  What Russia have to counter such equipment?

This is kinda off topic but flamming_python's post reminded me that "we" (here in the west) are often living in our reality regarding the Ukrainian conflict and Russia in general.

There's one thing that really blows my mind: the fact that many (even most?) westerners actually support Kiev's current regime "against" (evil!!!!) Russia. Atleast people who are interested in military matters, international politics and the like. It's like their russophobia knows no bounds. I can imagine that If Russia (or well, ethnically Russians, in this case) would be in conflict with Hell, they'd support Satan himself. And the propaganda works perfectly: small, freedom loving Ukraine is fighting against Russian soldiers and agents! Putin, Hitler of the 21st century is recreating the mother of all evil, the Soviet Union (that luckily was defeated by the freedom loving west). And they buy it. Because when Russia is against something, it must be good, right?

I stopped reading Finnish military forums after the crisis began. Suddenly username likes "Maidan" are amongst the most active. "Ukraine is an inspiration to us all, we are next, let's buy some more American weapons (and join NATO before it's too late)!" Russian economic woes are celebrated and blown out of proportions. Russian "opposition" is the voice of truth. It seems that Russian military developments are not followed closely anymore: nothing is mentioned about the number of weapon deliveries last year, for instance. (I just re-checked it. Nope. And it's a military forum! And Russia is the enemy no 1! Does the truth, Russian military modernization hurt, or why it's suddenly not reported?) According to them Russian military modernization is not going well, they are actually going to straight out collapse. (When the truth is exactly the opposite but somehow these military experts are not aware of that.)  

Oh, and now they are reporting how the Russians are getting "tired of war". Using dubious statistics that have nothing to do with the subject: Russians are more worried about the economy than a year ago... No shit sherlock! And now they are linking articles that state how Russians are increasingly evading draft because of Ukraine. Is that even true, btw? Sigh, I thought that they weren't total idiots. And I'm mentioning all this because I think things have drastically changed, especially after the Ukrainian crisis. It just pisses me off that I can't read mainstream Finnish (or any western) media anymore because of their russophobia, social "media" and discussion boards included. They have no fucking idea what they are talking about. Calm and objective discussion about Russia, especially as a state and a major power is almost non-existent. China and other rising powers are really not mentioned at all!

This forum is of course exactly the opposite, many members are - unsurprisingly - very pro-Russia. And I have to say, in many cases their views about Russia are probably closer to the truth than what I keep hearing here. I'm sick of that demonizing, overly negative BS. I want learn more about Russia and other non-western powers, without any bullshit and you don't get that from the western MSM. As GarryB said (I think), atleast Russia is not a swear word here.

sepheronx wrote:

flamming_python wrote:In fact screw it, I'll tell you guys.

Recently, just out of curiousity's sake, I accousted one of these Ukrainian trolls on Youtube, who was in the middle of a shouting match with someone or other over something. I really shouldn't have, but I was genuinely interested as to what's actually going on in their minds, and whether it's actually possible to get something productive out of them.

I asked the question:

Me: Why aren't you at the front, hero?

The conversation with this sub-life specimen, then went exactly like this, word for word:

Him: Same question back to you! Why aren't you sucking dick?
Me: No really, why aren't you at the front? After all your country is being 'attacked'. If I myself really believed in such BS, in your place I would have gone.
Him: Cotton-jacket, suck it!!!! Aren't you capable of nothing else? Sterile degenarates!
Me: FFS is it really so hard to answer 1 question? I'm not even insulting you, or anything.
Me: You're a lost cause for human reasoning. You live in a world of illusions and rationalize with emotions and make-believe, rather than with hard facts. You better wake up.
Him: Cotton-jacket, suck it!!! Putin's calling you up, come and die on Great Ukrainian Land!
Me: No-one's calling me up, I'm from Russia not the Ukraine. It's you who's being called up, to fight on great Ukrainian land. Why aren't you going?
Him: Fool mobilization is also being prepared for you!? Why aren't you fighting!? Well you'll find out when you end up lost in the Donbass!
Me: We don't have any mobilization, I don't know who's been telling you fairy tales. However I know for a fact that in the Ukraine there is mobilization - and that's now a question for you - why aren't you going?
Him: Just you wait!
Me: Fuck, you're a real hero.

These people, these Kiev supporters, are completely irrational. They don't want to accept that the war their beloved Putschists started, to silence the people who didn't agree with their legitimate government being toppled, is crumbling apart and all their efforts, cyborgs, etc... have been for nothing - they've chosen the wrong course, and all they can do is just plug their head deeper and deeper into the sand. Truly retarded people. Truly. My god.

I really do not think there can be peace with them, as horrible as that sounds. A lot more killing and fighting will take place, until they back off, and their propaganda and foaming can be stopped. With each defeat, they just simply grow more desperate, more nationalistic and more aggressive and hateful, the amount of hate they spew against Russians is incredible - but I must say, it's the same on both sides now. Many Russians have nothing but revultion for them, and hate on all Ukrainians too - which is wrong. Blame the people that are to blame, not the ones which aren't.

So simple to put these trolls in their place.  Simply ask: "how do you expect to win against Russia, if you cannot even beat a bunch of pissed off miners and volunteers?"  Usually these people cannot think properly and think that an army incapable of fighting off a bunch of civies with weapons, will beat a full fledge military with far more modern equipment.  Heck, even M1A1's and Apache helicopters and F-15/16's wouldn't even do a dent for Ukraine.

But they think they are fighting against the Russian Army already! How many times has Russia invaded? I've lost count.

Yes... I read that... I assumed it was the artificial colouring they use in the dyes they make ties with...

captured from russian soldiers/mercenaries

F-15E wrote:captured from russian soldiers/mercenaries

Is that is how you and your Fag Buddies entertain the whole day..? trying to find Russian weapons in
Ukraine? Why you don't post the pictures of NATO weapons in Ukraine imbecile? There are as many mercenaries
American and NATO soldiers as volunteers helping the Rebels if not more. Already i gave you evidence of NATO soldiers in Ukraine.. and weapons too..   I bet pathetic Imbeciles like you find nothing wrong with the javelines
missiles that Canada supplied to kiev.. last year.. but go a complain whenever see anything that looks like was
given by Russia..  Hypocrite.

Take a look at the many Americans weapons captured at the Donetsk Airport..  
they told many americans well armed soldiers killed in the airport.. helping Ukrainians.. Look at the nice
Weapons they got..



here evidence of NATO artillery used in eastern Ukraine..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3215220679&feature=iv&src_vid=wJYI1MVAHIo&v=AlOoYdvX2Ec

Here one moron like you.. american ..killed in Ukraine by Russian mercenaries/soldiers.  


here according to Donetsk fighters an american pilot.. captured.. in 2014.



Here a report with details of a couple of hundreds Americans killed in Ukraine fighting..  

http://www.globalresearch.ca/cia-fbi-agents-dying-for-illegal-junta-in-ukraine/5383040

As you can see Ukraine is not IRAQ..and americans can be kicked in the ass when fighting capable soldiers with
decent weapons.  

Vann7 wrote:

F-15E wrote:captured from russian soldiers/mercenaries

Is that is how you and your Fag Buddies entertain the whole day..? trying to find Russian weapons in
Ukraine? Why you don't post the pictures of NATO weapons in Ukraine imbecile? There are as many mercenaries
American and NATO soldiers as volunteers helping the Rebels if not more. Already i gave you evidence of NATO soldiers in Ukraine.. and weapons too..   I bet pathetic Imbeciles like you find nothing wrong with the javelines
missiles that Canada supplied to kiev.. last year.. but go a complain whenever see anything that looks like was
given by Russia..  Hypocrite.

Hahaha,you found a glock and then say "Nato is sending weapons in Ukraine bla bla bla",but unlike Russia,we do not send howitzers,tanks etc.

F-15E wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

F-15E wrote:captured from russian soldiers/mercenaries

Is that is how you and your Fag Buddies entertain the whole day..? trying to find Russian weapons in
Ukraine? Why you don't post the pictures of NATO weapons in Ukraine imbecile? There are as many mercenaries
American and NATO soldiers as volunteers helping the Rebels if not more. Already i gave you evidence of NATO soldiers in Ukraine.. and weapons too..   I bet pathetic Imbeciles like you find nothing wrong with the javelines
missiles that Canada supplied to kiev.. last year.. but go a complain whenever see anything that looks like was
given by Russia..  Hypocrite.

Hahaha,you found a glock and then say "Nato is sending weapons in Ukraine bla bla bla",but unlike Russia,we do not send howitzers,tanks etc.

Did you saw the video of artillery NATO munition? how the fuck you think they fire that munition?
plugging it in your between your ass?

I have seen reports of the Rebels capturing all kind of american weapons.. from drones ,to american assault rifles like the video.. to Javelin anti tank missiles captured. and reports of americans killed too in the hundreds..
The only thing i have not seen reports is of NATO tanks and NATO combat planes.. probably because it will be too
difficult for US to hide their help if their military hardware show up in Ukraine.

F-15E wrote:captured from russian soldiers/mercenaries

I can see you are using direct linking of images. Garry, is this even allowed? As well, RPG's of all types excluding 32, can be found in Ukrainian inventory as well, so you need to try a little harder and give detail as to where and how it was captured with evidence to back it up.

F-15E wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

F-15E wrote:captured from russian soldiers/mercenaries

Is that is how you and your Fag Buddies entertain the whole day..? trying to find Russian weapons in
Ukraine? Why you don't post the pictures of NATO weapons in Ukraine imbecile? There are as many mercenaries
American and NATO soldiers as volunteers helping the Rebels if not more. Already i gave you evidence of NATO soldiers in Ukraine.. and weapons too..   I bet pathetic Imbeciles like you find nothing wrong with the javelines
missiles that Canada supplied to kiev.. last year.. but go a complain whenever see anything that looks like was
given by Russia..  Hypocrite.

Hahaha,you found a glock and then say "Nato is sending weapons in Ukraine bla bla bla",but unlike Russia,we do not send howitzers,tanks etc.

But they send trolls such as yourself who scream and debate how small their micro-penis is on internet forums. Quite a few NATO states who were former Warsaw Pact have been selling their old Soviet era stocks to Ukraine, you can't just give NATO only equipment when the Ukrainians don't have the logistics to adequately support their equipment, but if you weren't missing a few chromosomes you could probably understand the most elementary of military concepts.

Suprisingly neutral and level-headed business article over at the Washington Post. It just briefly lays out the facts on the Ukrainian economical situation, nothing more. But it's the one of the most-read on the site, so perhaps something will be getting through to the average politically-conscious American after-all.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/06/ukraines-currency-has-fallen-50-percent-in-two-days/

Ukraine’s currency just collapsed 50 percent in two days
By Matt O'Brien February 6

Ukraine, to use a technical term, is broke. That's what you call a country whose currency has lost half its value in just two days.

The problem is simple: Ukraine has no money and barely any economy. It's already talking to the IMF about a $15 billion bailout and what's euphemistically being called a debt "restructuring"—i.e., default—as its reserves have dwindled down to $6.42 billion, only enough to cover five weeks of imports. (Three months worth is considered the absolute least you can get by with).

So it was more than a bit belated for Ukraine to stop spending the few dollars it does have on propping up its currency, the hryvnia. It took until Thursday for it to do that, though, and, when it did, the reaction was swift and it was violent. The hyrvnia fell from 16.8 to 24.4 per dollar, and then again to 25.3 on Friday, on the news that the government wouldn't intervene it in anymore. In all, it was a 50 percent decline in 48 hours. And this was despite the fact that its central bank simultaneously jacked up interest rates from 14 to 19.5 percent to try to get people to hold their money in hyrvinia that would pay them a lot instead of dollars that wouldn't. That, as you can see, didn't exactly work.

Now let's back up a minute. Why is Ukraine so doomed? Well, it's been mismanaged on a world-historical scale by oligarchs who, for decades, have skimmed billions off the country's nonexistent growth. That last part's not hyperbole. It seems almost impossible, but Ukraine's economy has actually shrunk since communism ended in 1991. Or since 1992. Or even 1993. And now its not-so-cold war with Russia is destroying the little that's left. It's not just that the rebel strongholds in the factory-heavy east have deprived Ukraine of a quarter of its industrial capacity. It's that it can't afford to fight against what's still it's biggest trading partner—Russia. Think about that. You don't usually trade a lot with the country you're going to battle against, but Ukraine's economy is so dependent on Russia's that it still trades more with it than any other country. That means anything that hurts Russia, like lower oil prices or sanctions, just redounds onto Ukraine, and puts it in an even bigger financial hole.

Ukraine, in other words, doesn't have a lot of foreign currency, and doesn't have a lot of ways to earn more of it. Not when it didn't have much of an economy to begin with, it's fighting its biggest trading partner, and separatists have taken away its industrial heartland. The only questions are how big the bailout will be, and how far the hrvynia will fall in the meantime.

Ukraine's currency is weak, and that's not a game.

Holysh*t, according to German intelligence, Kiev has been lying and downplaying how many civilians and serviceman died in the Ukrainian Civil War. They estimate that the true death toll is 10 times higher than Kiev is claiming, with at least 50,000 dead!

‘Official figures not credible’: German intel say Ukraine death toll 10 times higher



The German intelligence service estimates the real losses in the Ukrainian civil war at 50,000 dead (civilians and servicemen), which is nearly 10 times higher than reported by the Kiev authorities, German media report.

The information comes from a source in German intelligence, who spoke to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung (FAZ) newspaper.

“Germany’s special services estimate the probable number of deceased Ukrainian servicemen and civilians at up to 50,000 people. This figure is about 10 times higher than official data. Official figures are clearly too low and not credible,” the newspaper reported on Sunday, citing its source.



Just one day before the report was published, the Ukrainian president gave completely different numbers to the international community.

“The death toll for the Ukrainian soldiers defending land from the aggressor is now 1,432. Thousands of people, 5,638, have been killed since April [2014] and every single day the number of victims among the civilians is rising,” Petro Poroshenko said in his address to the 51st Munich Security Conference on Saturday.

The Ukrainian army is reported to be suffering its heaviest losses since the beginning of the conflict last spring. According to the Donetsk militia representative, Eduard Basurin, the Ukrainian army has lost 1,569 servicemen in just three weeks since restarting the offensive.

The situation on the battlefield is dire for the Ukrainian forces. Some 8,000 Ukrainian troops are believed to be surrounded near the village of Debaltsevo in Donbass. Militia units cut off the only road linking this pocket of land to Kiev-controlled territory.

Taking into account these heavy losses, Ukraine is set to call up as many military age Ukrainians as possible. The national military draft for 2015 is expected to see 100,000 people joining the army in three stages throughout the year.

The recruitment effort, coming amid intensified fighting in eastern Ukraine, is being met by a distinct lack of enthusiasm by potential soldiers.

‘Official figures not credible’: German intel say Ukraine death toll 10 times higher

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/ukraine-sicherheitskreise-bis-zu-50-000-tote-13416132.html

Before some butthurt clown pops up and claims that the above report is BS, I will make some points:

1) We are seeing full blown conventional warfare of the WWII variety without a lot of air attacks. This is not a low grade
guerrilla war.

2) Civilians have been targeted from the beginning. These are not just sporadic collateral damage events, this is day in and
day out slaughter via artillery and MLRS barrages. It is not as high per day as it could be, but that means squat.

3) The numbers being thrown around cannot possibly be based on any comprehensive accounting of losses, especially when
it comes to Donbas civilians. Several months ago I did an estimate of the total death toll based on my daily monitoring of
the web (youtube, rebel websites) and got a figure close to what the UN was reporting (just multiply the daily average
by the number of days since serious fighting began). So the UN is producing estimates based on "analysis" of web media.

4) The web coverage of civilian losses is partial. We can can safely assume that civilian losses exceed military losses.
Perhaps they are not 2:1 as during WWII but they are more than 1:1.

5) Military losses on both sides are easily over 25,000. So over 25,000 dead civilians is a reasonable inference.

Poroshenko shows passports of Russian soldiers to demonstrate the presence of Russian troops in the Ukraine as he speaks at the 51st Munich Security Conference

Ahahahahahahaha....

And people were saying the us passports found in Georgia during the war were fake.

This is funny. He holds em up like its money, but no names and photos of whom they belonged to? Ahahahaha.

F-15E wrote:Poroshenko shows passports of Russian soldiers to demonstrate the presence of Russian troops in the Ukraine as he speaks at the 51st Munich Security Conference

He'll have to have them independently verified for people to believe him...

Moscow demands copies of ‘Russian soldiers IDs’ shown in Munich

Lol you have to read the first comment on the RT video on this porky holding passports.

6 солдат ебашут вашу великую армию? и вы просите помощи?

"6 Soldiers fuck up your great army? And you still ask for help?"

Do people actually believe that soldiers carry passports into battle? Especially if the battle is supposed to be semi-covert?

Please, put the crack pipe down before it is too late!

Russian soldiers cannot use their passports while on active service – they must hand them in. Everybody who has ever lived in Russia knows this. Indeed, even contract soldiers are forced to hand in theirs while on army business and, like the troops, they get a replacement military ID. This is why Sochi’s bars are crawling with off-duty Russian military – they can’t go abroad without their travel documents.

http://rt.com/op-edge/230295-poroshenko-russian-passports-propaganda/

kvs wrote:Do people actually believe that soldiers carry passports into battle?  Especially if the battle is supposed to be semi-covert?

Please, put the crack pipe down before it is too late!

Russian soldiers cannot use their passports while on active service – they must hand them in. Everybody who has ever lived in Russia knows this. Indeed, even contract soldiers are forced to hand in theirs while on army business and, like the troops, they get a replacement military ID. This is why Sochi’s bars are crawling with off-duty Russian military – they can’t go abroad without their travel documents.

http://rt.com/op-edge/230295-poroshenko-russian-passports-propaganda/

F-15E's wet-dreams have been crushed thoroughly lol! Him and his fellow swine Porkyshenko, and Ferkel Merkel are better suited twisting their asses on metal rods, rotating over a open fire!

F-15E wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

F-15E wrote:captured from russian soldiers/mercenaries

Is that is how you and your Fag Buddies entertain the whole day..? trying to find Russian weapons in
Ukraine? Why you don't post the pictures of NATO weapons in Ukraine imbecile? There are as many mercenaries
American and NATO soldiers as volunteers helping the Rebels if not more. Already i gave you evidence of NATO soldiers in Ukraine.. and weapons too..   I bet pathetic Imbeciles like you find nothing wrong with the javelines
missiles that Canada supplied to kiev.. last year.. but go a complain whenever see anything that looks like was
given by Russia..  Hypocrite.

Hahaha,you found a glock and then say "Nato is sending weapons in Ukraine bla bla bla",but unlike Russia,we do not send howitzers,tanks etc.

Russia should send everything it needs because the Jew United States of America is right on their door step. This is a very important war because any country(including Russia) has the right to sell their oil in any current they wish(and that is what this war is mostly about).

magnumcromagnon wrote:

F-15E wrote:Poroshenko shows passports of Russian soldiers to demonstrate the presence of Russian troops in the Ukraine as he speaks at the 51st Munich Security Conference

He'll have to have them independently verified for people to believe him...

Moscow demands copies of ‘Russian soldiers IDs’ shown in Munich

If Russian soliders want to go to Ukraine to fight the fascists, why would they need their passports. I don't think they would worry much about customs.

par far wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

F-15E wrote:Poroshenko shows passports of Russian soldiers to demonstrate the presence of Russian troops in the Ukraine as he speaks at the 51st Munich Security Conference

He'll have to have them independently verified for people to believe him...

Moscow demands copies of ‘Russian soldiers IDs’ shown in Munich

If Russian soliders want to go to Ukraine to fight the fascists, why would they need their passports. I don't think they would worry much about customs.

yep.. they need the passports to enter through the border checkpoints ..
I think it still was a good stunt by Poroshenko.. thruth is not important.. but good propaganda is what counts.
Ironically he about rebels receiving help from Russia but Russian regular army is not..but formers soldiers/veterans
of chechen or afgan war. They can be as lethal if not more than regular army soldiers.. in some case..
Like Motorola and givi ,they have been in no less than 3 wars.. chechenia ,yugoeslavia apparently and Georgia..
so their knowledge and trust in their capabilities is worth of gold.

ABout ukraine 5$ billions ,5 week reservers
thats totally insane.. No wonder Poroshenko is now agreeing with a cease of fire.. if they are in the middle
of war.. they will not get a loan .. In my opinion , The Europeans should delay any help to Ukraine and wait
its economy to default officially.. that way no longer the ukraine army will be paid anything and they will be
FORCED to stop fighting and negotiate with the Rebels.. the last report i saw.. was about kiev looking to take
people savings from banks.. ala CYPRUS.. that is steal people savings from banks to pay their debts.. they are
really insane.. and reports like that will create panic in the population more than any Russian army invasion..
and will start to widraw their money and try to change it in euros as soon as possible and flee the country.