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The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

flamming_python

flamming_python: Posts : 9516
Points : 9574
Join date : 2012-01-30

Post n°401

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

flamming_python Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:09 pm

sepheronx wrote:
When right sector group set the odessa building aflame, it really didn't do squat in the end. No one cared but some people themselves and eastern Ukrainians. Outside of the world, they were applauding the terrorists. Who knows if it was even them that did it or someone crazy in general.

That's right. Actually I remember the comments on youtube; 'fried colorads', etc...
I remember the videos when the villagers in the Donbass surrounded those Ukrainian BMDs too on all sides, old women were pushing against them as they attempted to manuever past, sometimes crushing someone's leg on the way. On Youtube, the Ukrainian patriots were screaming 'crush those Vata', etc...

None of that excuses any gloating about attacking ordinary people though. The whole point is that the pro-Ukrainian patriots are mentally-ill people who take pleasure at the murder of pro-Russians - but that we don't have to be like them, and we shouldn't be like them.

It sure was a pathetic turn out at that so called "patriotic" protest. 500 people? waste of time. Maybe someone on right sector side did this on purpose to keep banging the drums of war and using this as an excuse.

Could be. Who knows with this country.

sepheronx

sepheronx: Posts : 8809
Points : 9069
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 35
Location : Canada

Post n°402

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

sepheronx Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:19 pm

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
When right sector group set the odessa building aflame, it really didn't do squat in the end. No one cared but some people themselves and eastern Ukrainians. Outside of the world, they were applauding the terrorists. Who knows if it was even them that did it or someone crazy in general.

That's right. Actually I remember the comments on youtube; 'fried colorads', etc...
I remember the videos when the villagers in the Donbass surrounded those Ukrainian BMDs too on all sides, old women were pushing against them as they attempted to manuever past, sometimes crushing someone's leg on the way. On Youtube, the Ukrainian patriots were screaming 'crush those Vata', etc...

None of that excuses any gloating about attacking ordinary people though. The whole point is that the pro-Ukrainian patriots are mentally-ill people who take pleasure at the murder of pro-Russians - but that we don't have to be like them, and we shouldn't be like them.

It sure was a pathetic turn out at that so called "patriotic" protest. 500 people? waste of time. Maybe someone on right sector side did this on purpose to keep banging the drums of war and using this as an excuse.

Could be. Who knows with this country.

I am honest in what I am about to say.

People are absolutely disgusting. People in western Ukraine and these ultra nationalists are even worst. It actually boils down to: Are we better off with these people dead? Hard question but we all have our opinions on it. Right or Wrong is simply set by whichever side you are on. They feel it is right to kill Russians, while we feel it is right that they do not and that they are evil, blah blah blah. Right Wrong, Good Evil....... All perception of individuals or groups. Do I think it is right to bomb innocent people? No. Where they people innocent? I don't know. Besides a protest, what else did they do? Where any people here involved in what happened in Odessa? Maybe. If so, I wouldn't feel so bad. Were these people supporting the war? If so, then I wouldn't feel so bad because they had what was eventually coming to them (Support someone's demise, expect the same feeling back).

I have not served so I may not be in the position to feel this. But when the Kosovo war started, it left a bad taste in my mouth. It pretty much paved way of might makes right in my mind, and that to solve the issue is to bomb a group of people you deem bad, until they give in to whatever your demands are, even if that means you lose territory or even rights. While US and NATO paraded around how good they were by killing those evil serbs (while completely ignoring the evil Croats, Albanians, etc), it really took to my eye that we in the west are truly evil. But add icing to the cake, was the second Iraq war. It proved not only how easily foolish people in the west are, it also gave anyone the pretext to create a false claim to be used to go to war with anyone/everyone. They used 9/11 to get the bleeding hearts to agree to war, even though what, 3000 people (or more) died? How many innocent in Iraq and Afghanistan died? All for what? What did Iraq have to do with the Twin Towers? Now this in Ukraine. This is even far more evident now that I am older and more aware. Since beginning, it was blatant how this was done. John Baird, Victoria Nuland, and the likes showing up in Kiev, handing out goods to the protesters and making "demands" at Yanukovich, blatantly joining a side while being a political figure of another country, and then news/evidence showing US and other countries funds and support for the maiden protests. Add in the lack of investigation into the sniper that supposedly "started" the Yanukovich overthrow, and then the Odessa massacre and then what? What did we end up with? We ended up with people in the west wanting to destroy Russia and Russians all saying: "Putin is evil, we need to free Russians". Like they give a damn about Russians. If they did, then they would be listening to Russians and not making demands for them. But oh no, let us not just stop there. There was countless evidence even by OSCE about Ukrainian military bombing civillians and going against peace agreements. But who got blamed for it? Russia, Russians and these eastern Ukrainians. Oh wait, we cant call them that, because then it makes it sound like Ukrainians themselves are being surpressed by their own government. Instead, they are all Russian mercenaries and what not. But if you look into it, where do most of these people come from? The regions being bombed.

And how, should I feel sorry for people who actually are in support of this? How am I supposed to show sympathy to people who got attacked for supporting a blatant monster who has killed plenty of his own people, whom is an oligarch that still owns his chocolate factory even though he promised to get rid of it, and who is trying to snuff out a whole group of people? Anyone who supports someone like that, are just as bad as him, and are the reason why this is happening to begin with. So sorry if I show not a single f**** for these low life scumbags.

Last edited by sepheronx on Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:33 pm; edited 2 times in total

flamming_python

flamming_python: Posts : 9516
Points : 9574
Join date : 2012-01-30

Post n°403

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

flamming_python Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:31 pm

sepheronx wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
When right sector group set the odessa building aflame, it really didn't do squat in the end. No one cared but some people themselves and eastern Ukrainians. Outside of the world, they were applauding the terrorists. Who knows if it was even them that did it or someone crazy in general.

That's right. Actually I remember the comments on youtube; 'fried colorads', etc...
I remember the videos when the villagers in the Donbass surrounded those Ukrainian BMDs too on all sides, old women were pushing against them as they attempted to manuever past, sometimes crushing someone's leg on the way. On Youtube, the Ukrainian patriots were screaming 'crush those Vata', etc...

None of that excuses any gloating about attacking ordinary people though. The whole point is that the pro-Ukrainian patriots are mentally-ill people who take pleasure at the murder of pro-Russians - but that we don't have to be like them, and we shouldn't be like them.

It sure was a pathetic turn out at that so called "patriotic" protest. 500 people? waste of time. Maybe someone on right sector side did this on purpose to keep banging the drums of war and using this as an excuse.

Could be. Who knows with this country.

I am honest in what I am about to say.

People are absolutely disgusting. People in western Ukraine and these ultra nationalists are even worst. It actually boils down to: Are we better off with these people dead? Hard question but we all have our opinions on it. Right or Wrong is simply set by whichever side you are on. They feel it is right to kill Russians, while we feel it is right that they do not and that they are evil, blah blah blah. Right Wrong, Good Evil....... All perception of individuals or groups. Do I think it is right to bomb innocent people? No. Where they people innocent? I don't know. Besides a protest, what else did they do? Where any people here involved in what happened in Odessa? Maybe. If so, I wouldn't feel so bad. Were these people supporting the war? If so, then I wouldn't feel so bad because they had what was eventually coming to them (Support someone's demise, expect the same feeling back).

No, we are not better off with those people dead, and if we are then perhaps it's time to re-examine ourselves and what we stand for.

It doesn't really matter what opinions a person has, or what they think. Such is everyone's right, to hold a different opinion, and indeed trying to change this reality is hopeless, in life you will find many people with different opinions, and on politics, and on every other subject.
Trying to change something like this is counterproductive as history has shown, and more counterproductive than anything else is simply killing those with whom you don't agree.

Yet punishment and resistance should only be applied against those that do wrong, that commit crimes and barbarity. Not on those who think differently. The fight should not be against the people, no matter how misguided they are - it should be against the criminals themselves, the functionaries of the regime, and the ideology itself.
You ask if these people are innocent. To be honest, not all of them look so innocent to me. But I'm not a judge and certainly not a visual one. I can't tell who's guilty of what crime by clairvoyance or psychic abilities. It makes sense to presume people innocent until proven guilty, that's the civilized way of doing things and for a good reason.

I can certainly see some suspect characters in that group. The Maidan paramilitary types for one.. actually as SA-style regime-enforcers they would be a perfectly legitimate target if they were by themselves. But they're not; among that crowd are plenty of young, old people, civilians.. what if some families were there that brought their kids along to the march too?

sepheronx

sepheronx: Posts : 8809
Points : 9069
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 35
Location : Canada

Post n°404

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

sepheronx Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:34 pm

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
When right sector group set the odessa building aflame, it really didn't do squat in the end. No one cared but some people themselves and eastern Ukrainians. Outside of the world, they were applauding the terrorists. Who knows if it was even them that did it or someone crazy in general.

That's right. Actually I remember the comments on youtube; 'fried colorads', etc...
I remember the videos when the villagers in the Donbass surrounded those Ukrainian BMDs too on all sides, old women were pushing against them as they attempted to manuever past, sometimes crushing someone's leg on the way. On Youtube, the Ukrainian patriots were screaming 'crush those Vata', etc...

None of that excuses any gloating about attacking ordinary people though. The whole point is that the pro-Ukrainian patriots are mentally-ill people who take pleasure at the murder of pro-Russians - but that we don't have to be like them, and we shouldn't be like them.

It sure was a pathetic turn out at that so called "patriotic" protest. 500 people? waste of time. Maybe someone on right sector side did this on purpose to keep banging the drums of war and using this as an excuse.

Could be. Who knows with this country.

I am honest in what I am about to say.

People are absolutely disgusting. People in western Ukraine and these ultra nationalists are even worst. It actually boils down to: Are we better off with these people dead? Hard question but we all have our opinions on it. Right or Wrong is simply set by whichever side you are on. They feel it is right to kill Russians, while we feel it is right that they do not and that they are evil, blah blah blah. Right Wrong, Good Evil....... All perception of individuals or groups. Do I think it is right to bomb innocent people? No. Where they people innocent? I don't know. Besides a protest, what else did they do? Where any people here involved in what happened in Odessa? Maybe. If so, I wouldn't feel so bad. Were these people supporting the war? If so, then I wouldn't feel so bad because they had what was eventually coming to them (Support someone's demise, expect the same feeling back).

No, we are not better off with those people dead, and if we are then perhaps it's time to re-examine ourselves and what we stand for.

It doesn't really matter what opinions a person has, or what they think. Such is everyone's right, to hold a different opinion, and indeed trying to change this reality is hopeless, in life you will find many people with different opinions, and on politics, and on every other subject.
Trying to change something like this is counterproductive as history has shown, and more counterproductive than anything else is simply killing those with whom you don't agree.

Yet punishment and resistance should only be applied against those that do wrong, that commit crimes and barbarity. Not on those who think differently. The fight should not be against the people, no matter how misguided they are - it should be against the criminals themselves, the functionaries of the regime, and the ideology itself.
You ask if these people are innocent. To be honest, not all of them look so innocent to me. But I'm not a judge and certainly not a visual one. I can't tell who's guilty of what crime by clairvoyance or psychic abilities. It makes sense to presume people innocent until proven guilty, that's the civilized way of doing things and for a good reason.

I can certainly see some suspect characters in that group. The Maidan paramilitary types for one.. actually as SA-style regime-enforcers they would be a perfectly legitimate target if they were by themselves. But they're not; among that crowd are plenty of young, old people, civilians.. what if some families were there that brought their kids along to the march too?

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
When right sector group set the odessa building aflame, it really didn't do squat in the end. No one cared but some people themselves and eastern Ukrainians. Outside of the world, they were applauding the terrorists. Who knows if it was even them that did it or someone crazy in general.

That's right. Actually I remember the comments on youtube; 'fried colorads', etc...
I remember the videos when the villagers in the Donbass surrounded those Ukrainian BMDs too on all sides, old women were pushing against them as they attempted to manuever past, sometimes crushing someone's leg on the way. On Youtube, the Ukrainian patriots were screaming 'crush those Vata', etc...

None of that excuses any gloating about attacking ordinary people though. The whole point is that the pro-Ukrainian patriots are mentally-ill people who take pleasure at the murder of pro-Russians - but that we don't have to be like them, and we shouldn't be like them.

It sure was a pathetic turn out at that so called "patriotic" protest. 500 people? waste of time. Maybe someone on right sector side did this on purpose to keep banging the drums of war and using this as an excuse.

Could be. Who knows with this country.

sepheronx

sepheronx: Posts : 8809
Points : 9069
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 35
Location : Canada

Post n°405

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

sepheronx Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:36 pm

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
When right sector group set the odessa building aflame, it really didn't do squat in the end. No one cared but some people themselves and eastern Ukrainians. Outside of the world, they were applauding the terrorists. Who knows if it was even them that did it or someone crazy in general.

That's right. Actually I remember the comments on youtube; 'fried colorads', etc...
I remember the videos when the villagers in the Donbass surrounded those Ukrainian BMDs too on all sides, old women were pushing against them as they attempted to manuever past, sometimes crushing someone's leg on the way. On Youtube, the Ukrainian patriots were screaming 'crush those Vata', etc...

None of that excuses any gloating about attacking ordinary people though. The whole point is that the pro-Ukrainian patriots are mentally-ill people who take pleasure at the murder of pro-Russians - but that we don't have to be like them, and we shouldn't be like them.

It sure was a pathetic turn out at that so called "patriotic" protest. 500 people? waste of time. Maybe someone on right sector side did this on purpose to keep banging the drums of war and using this as an excuse.

Could be. Who knows with this country.

I am honest in what I am about to say.

People are absolutely disgusting. People in western Ukraine and these ultra nationalists are even worst. It actually boils down to: Are we better off with these people dead? Hard question but we all have our opinions on it. Right or Wrong is simply set by whichever side you are on. They feel it is right to kill Russians, while we feel it is right that they do not and that they are evil, blah blah blah. Right Wrong, Good Evil....... All perception of individuals or groups. Do I think it is right to bomb innocent people? No. Where they people innocent? I don't know. Besides a protest, what else did they do? Where any people here involved in what happened in Odessa? Maybe. If so, I wouldn't feel so bad. Were these people supporting the war? If so, then I wouldn't feel so bad because they had what was eventually coming to them (Support someone's demise, expect the same feeling back).

No, we are not better off with those people dead, and if we are then perhaps it's time to re-examine ourselves and what we stand for.

It doesn't really matter what opinions a person has, or what they think. Such is everyone's right, to hold a different opinion, and indeed trying to change this reality is hopeless, in life you will find many people with different opinions, and on politics, and on every other subject.
Trying to change something like this is counterproductive as history has shown, and more counterproductive than anything else is simply killing those with whom you don't agree.

Yet punishment and resistance should only be applied against those that do wrong, that commit crimes and barbarity. Not on those who think differently. The fight should not be against the people, no matter how misguided they are - it should be against the criminals themselves, the functionaries of the regime, and the ideology itself.
You ask if these people are innocent. To be honest, not all of them look so innocent to me. But I'm not a judge and certainly not a visual one. I can't tell who's guilty of what crime by clairvoyance or psychic abilities. It makes sense to presume people innocent until proven guilty, that's the civilized way of doing things and for a good reason.

I can certainly see some suspect characters in that group. The Maidan paramilitary types for one.. actually as SA-style regime-enforcers they would be a perfectly legitimate target if they were by themselves. But they're not; among that crowd are plenty of young, old people, civilians.. what if some families were there that brought their kids along to the march too?

Hmm, tell that to the Serbian people, or Iraqi people. Might makes right in todays day and age. These people are perpetrators too just for supporting the regime. It is people like them keeping up the regime.

I for one cannot give a shit about them, may they rest in hell.

flamming_python

flamming_python: Posts : 9516
Points : 9574
Join date : 2012-01-30

Post n°406

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

flamming_python Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:16 pm

sepheronx wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
When right sector group set the odessa building aflame, it really didn't do squat in the end. No one cared but some people themselves and eastern Ukrainians. Outside of the world, they were applauding the terrorists. Who knows if it was even them that did it or someone crazy in general.

That's right. Actually I remember the comments on youtube; 'fried colorads', etc...
I remember the videos when the villagers in the Donbass surrounded those Ukrainian BMDs too on all sides, old women were pushing against them as they attempted to manuever past, sometimes crushing someone's leg on the way. On Youtube, the Ukrainian patriots were screaming 'crush those Vata', etc...

None of that excuses any gloating about attacking ordinary people though. The whole point is that the pro-Ukrainian patriots are mentally-ill people who take pleasure at the murder of pro-Russians - but that we don't have to be like them, and we shouldn't be like them.

It sure was a pathetic turn out at that so called "patriotic" protest. 500 people? waste of time. Maybe someone on right sector side did this on purpose to keep banging the drums of war and using this as an excuse.

Could be. Who knows with this country.

I am honest in what I am about to say.

People are absolutely disgusting. People in western Ukraine and these ultra nationalists are even worst. It actually boils down to: Are we better off with these people dead? Hard question but we all have our opinions on it. Right or Wrong is simply set by whichever side you are on. They feel it is right to kill Russians, while we feel it is right that they do not and that they are evil, blah blah blah. Right Wrong, Good Evil....... All perception of individuals or groups. Do I think it is right to bomb innocent people? No. Where they people innocent? I don't know. Besides a protest, what else did they do? Where any people here involved in what happened in Odessa? Maybe. If so, I wouldn't feel so bad. Were these people supporting the war? If so, then I wouldn't feel so bad because they had what was eventually coming to them (Support someone's demise, expect the same feeling back).

No, we are not better off with those people dead, and if we are then perhaps it's time to re-examine ourselves and what we stand for.

It doesn't really matter what opinions a person has, or what they think. Such is everyone's right, to hold a different opinion, and indeed trying to change this reality is hopeless, in life you will find many people with different opinions, and on politics, and on every other subject.
Trying to change something like this is counterproductive as history has shown, and more counterproductive than anything else is simply killing those with whom you don't agree.

Yet punishment and resistance should only be applied against those that do wrong, that commit crimes and barbarity. Not on those who think differently. The fight should not be against the people, no matter how misguided they are - it should be against the criminals themselves, the functionaries of the regime, and the ideology itself.
You ask if these people are innocent. To be honest, not all of them look so innocent to me. But I'm not a judge and certainly not a visual one. I can't tell who's guilty of what crime by clairvoyance or psychic abilities. It makes sense to presume people innocent until proven guilty, that's the civilized way of doing things and for a good reason.

I can certainly see some suspect characters in that group. The Maidan paramilitary types for one.. actually as SA-style regime-enforcers they would be a perfectly legitimate target if they were by themselves. But they're not; among that crowd are plenty of young, old people, civilians.. what if some families were there that brought their kids along to the march too?

Hmm, tell that to the Serbian people, or Iraqi people. Might makes right in todays day and age. These people are perpetrators too just for supporting the regime. It is people like them keeping up the regime.

I for one cannot give a shit about them, may they rest in hell.

That's a shame. I find it not so easy to sympathise with anyone on this march either. And maybe I don't, maybe I don't really give a shit when I look into my heart about their hate, maybe the hate is too deep - but still, I have my senses about me - and I know this to be wrong.

Many terrorists had the same justifications. That because you are the citizens of a country and participate in its economy, or you support the government, or you refuse to rise against your government - that you are complicit and can be held to account, or can otherwise be legitimately targeted.
Never mind the fact that you are an ordinary person and that you haven't done anything wrong.

Personally I think there are more than enough actual VISIBLE criminals, barbarians, Nazis and other scum to deal with in the Ukraine, without having to start any witchhunts among people with pro-Ukrainian sympathies.

sepheronx

sepheronx: Posts : 8809
Points : 9069
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 35
Location : Canada

Post n°407

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

sepheronx Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:55 pm

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
When right sector group set the odessa building aflame, it really didn't do squat in the end. No one cared but some people themselves and eastern Ukrainians. Outside of the world, they were applauding the terrorists. Who knows if it was even them that did it or someone crazy in general.

That's right. Actually I remember the comments on youtube; 'fried colorads', etc...
I remember the videos when the villagers in the Donbass surrounded those Ukrainian BMDs too on all sides, old women were pushing against them as they attempted to manuever past, sometimes crushing someone's leg on the way. On Youtube, the Ukrainian patriots were screaming 'crush those Vata', etc...

None of that excuses any gloating about attacking ordinary people though. The whole point is that the pro-Ukrainian patriots are mentally-ill people who take pleasure at the murder of pro-Russians - but that we don't have to be like them, and we shouldn't be like them.

It sure was a pathetic turn out at that so called "patriotic" protest. 500 people? waste of time. Maybe someone on right sector side did this on purpose to keep banging the drums of war and using this as an excuse.

Could be. Who knows with this country.

I am honest in what I am about to say.

People are absolutely disgusting. People in western Ukraine and these ultra nationalists are even worst. It actually boils down to: Are we better off with these people dead? Hard question but we all have our opinions on it. Right or Wrong is simply set by whichever side you are on. They feel it is right to kill Russians, while we feel it is right that they do not and that they are evil, blah blah blah. Right Wrong, Good Evil....... All perception of individuals or groups. Do I think it is right to bomb innocent people? No. Where they people innocent? I don't know. Besides a protest, what else did they do? Where any people here involved in what happened in Odessa? Maybe. If so, I wouldn't feel so bad. Were these people supporting the war? If so, then I wouldn't feel so bad because they had what was eventually coming to them (Support someone's demise, expect the same feeling back).

No, we are not better off with those people dead, and if we are then perhaps it's time to re-examine ourselves and what we stand for.

It doesn't really matter what opinions a person has, or what they think. Such is everyone's right, to hold a different opinion, and indeed trying to change this reality is hopeless, in life you will find many people with different opinions, and on politics, and on every other subject.
Trying to change something like this is counterproductive as history has shown, and more counterproductive than anything else is simply killing those with whom you don't agree.

Yet punishment and resistance should only be applied against those that do wrong, that commit crimes and barbarity. Not on those who think differently. The fight should not be against the people, no matter how misguided they are - it should be against the criminals themselves, the functionaries of the regime, and the ideology itself.
You ask if these people are innocent. To be honest, not all of them look so innocent to me. But I'm not a judge and certainly not a visual one. I can't tell who's guilty of what crime by clairvoyance or psychic abilities. It makes sense to presume people innocent until proven guilty, that's the civilized way of doing things and for a good reason.

I can certainly see some suspect characters in that group. The Maidan paramilitary types for one.. actually as SA-style regime-enforcers they would be a perfectly legitimate target if they were by themselves. But they're not; among that crowd are plenty of young, old people, civilians.. what if some families were there that brought their kids along to the march too?

Hmm, tell that to the Serbian people, or Iraqi people. Might makes right in todays day and age. These people are perpetrators too just for supporting the regime. It is people like them keeping up the regime.

I for one cannot give a shit about them, may they rest in hell.

That's a shame. I find it not so easy to sympathise with anyone on this march either. And maybe I don't, maybe I don't really give a shit when I look into my heart about their hate, maybe the hate is too deep - but still, I have my senses about me - and I know this to be wrong.

Many terrorists had the same justifications. That because you are the citizens of a country and participate in its economy, or you support the government, or you refuse to rise against your government - that you are complicit and can be held to account, or can otherwise be legitimately targeted.
Never mind the fact that you are an ordinary person and that you haven't done anything wrong.

Personally I think there are more than enough actual VISIBLE criminals, barbarians, Nazis and other scum to deal with in the Ukraine, without having to start any witchhunts among people with pro-Ukrainian sympathies.

Yes, there are far more viable targets, but a terrorist or anyone else whom will act barely acts in anything other than his/her own closest vicinity to where they live, and this was prime target, be it from the rebels, third party or someone on the pro-kieven side to create panic and further promote the cause of war. Regardless, these people should be protesting against the government. Since one side points fingers at the other, and I am the person willing to jump up and down for the team that the US clearly is working against (baring ISIS), I say I am supporter of the rebels and against the Ukrainian government and any shill for the government.

So I stick by my opinion, regardless if someone says is right or wrong, as I don't care about others interpretations. Place is a craphole and people support keeping that place a craphole deserve nothing in my opinion.

flamming_python

flamming_python: Posts : 9516
Points : 9574
Join date : 2012-01-30

Post n°408

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

flamming_python Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:18 pm

For what it's worth, the Kharkov Partisans have just denied their involvement in the bombing, and condemned such actions. They have laid the blame on Avakov, who they claim is planning to instate an ATO-regime in the city of Kharkov.
The coming days will tell I guess.

All in all this is interesting. It could be the work of some fringe/radical pro-rebel group, this I see as the most likely explanation - as this attack doesn't fit the Kharkov Partisans' MO.

However, whoever did it, we also know that the Kiev regime is incapable of making any situation better, but only of making things worse.
If they do in fact instate an ATO regime, start rounding up dozens of people, paramilitaries running riot on the street, hysteria, etc... it could elicit open protests against them - which undoubtedly would be put down violently as before. Only this time this could all lead to a new uprising, an armed uprising, and the beggining of the latest episode of the Ukrainian civil war.

Regular

Regular: Posts : 3894
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Join date : 2013-03-10
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Post n°409

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

Regular Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:40 pm

Or single pissed off person. Like honey jar attack

flamming_python

flamming_python: Posts : 9516
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Post n°410

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

flamming_python Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:15 pm

Regular wrote:Or single pissed off person. Like honey jar attack

Well it was a drive-by bombing so probably at least a couple of people involved

Vann7

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Post n°411

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

Vann7 Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:42 pm

@Firebird..

Before accusing me of being a NAZI or a another silly thing... and before you continue with
your ridiculous claims.. lets gets things right so no longer you continue with your idiocy against me
or others..

FIRST..
1)I never said the killing of millions of Russians or insert_anyotherrace is a good thing. for me any
civilian regardless of race have the right to live and is a tragedy the loss of life. whether one children killed
or a million.. of course the last one will be a million times worse than just one.

Second..
I never said Hitler was poor or a good guy.. Only that Germany was provoked into a world war...
By the american-british and jews..elite. This is exactly what they are doing Right Now to Russia..
whenever any powerful nation rise..the west seeks its destruction.. This is a FACT
Germany was invaded on two fronts.. BEFORE THE WAR began.. it was under an occupation by Poland
in the east and occupation in the west by others.. it was under brutal sanctions , it was under a boycott
by all the jewish banking industry (exactly like Russia today) and if that wasn't enough Poland was bombing
german minorities in their occupied zone.. similar to how Israel bomb palestinians..

So once you have all those facts.. if you had any brains ,you will understand why Hitler declared war against
the factions attacking germany ,that had germans minorities brutally repressed in concentration labor camps.. before any war began.

Third..
Hitler did not killed millions of soviets.. the war did it.. is not the same thing.. is called Unintended Consequences.. I don't think the goal of hitler was to kill , just for the fun of it.. he saw the only way to continue its war possible by taking Russia oil fields .. he not even invaded moscow ,just figure that and order his generals to not do it ,that it had no value for them so it was not taking all Russia the goal ., he did not start a genocide in France when they surrender.. just figure that. he was only after the oil of Russia ,necessary to continue his war.But Once a world war.. start.. is not possible to stop it on good terms , So he was not going to sacrifice Germany . He took a huge Risk , in attacking Russia that never surrenders.. and it was not possible for him to stop the war anymore..and at the same time continue with his plans of dominating his enemies in Europe.. if Hitler was a good guy ,he will have surrendered as soon few thousands innocent civilians die.. and negotiate for peace.. with Russia.. But he was interested in Germany future and was ready to risk a war with Russia in order to get enough oil for maintaining control of Europe.

FOurth..
My other point is that There was no Good guys in world war 2. with that i mean no good leaders..
Stalin was not a good guy , Hitler was not a good guy ,the american president was not a good guy and neither churchil. No good guys there.. only people with primitive thinking see life as white or black.. but don't see the
variations of others colors.. is all about interest.

five..
There was no holocaust.. No gas chambers..and neither other ridiculous claims of the jews of soap bars made of jews
, THis have been debunked even by Catholic Church priest who investigated the holocaust.. and by Israeli investigators too. that was an invention of jews to be paid $$ in war reparations.. It was Labor concentration camps.. The 8 million jews killed that jews claimed, that later were reduced to 3 million and later corrected the numbers to 800,000 after more and more investigation.Vast Majority they died of lack of food.. after germans were forced to retreat from their camps.. Jews were left without food.. it was another unintended consequence of the war.
Even Jews , the honest ones have reports that confirm that and priest investigators of the catholic church too.
There is no scientific evidence of gas chambers ,other than faith in the testimonies of Jews. The world have been duped. here is catholic priest investigator of the so called "gas chambers" says it was fake it never happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C9BuXe2RM , scientific research denies that gas chamber was impossible
to have with the facilities how they were designed.

and Today Russia is on the same place Germany was in world war 2.. attacked left ,center and right by the anglozionist powers..and ethnic Russians bombed at their borders calling for help.. and their allies Syria in Middle east also attacked by a proxy war.. If the same evil factions who provoked Germany into a war.. continues pushing Russia as they doing today.. ie.. Continue bombing ethnic Russians with weapons supplied by USA.. You can be sure a major world war will start.. and Putin will be in the same risk of killing millions in unintended consequences of a world war.
Because if USA give tactical nukes to the Hostile nationalist in Ukraine or lethal chemical weapons and they bomb Crimea.. Russia will have to respond.. and will be forced to Use nuclear weapons against USA for providing the weapons.. and they will retaliate and Russia will retaliate.. Then the count of civilians casualties will be very high..in the millions.. and this is the end result of world wars.. that you can start them (even if was in defense of your nation) but that you don't know how it will end.

Hitler had a few valid goals , the destruction a very evil ,criminal faction in the planet ,that today still exist ,the anglozionist and the liberation of Germany. but his tactics and methods were terrible wrong. from my point of
view the real bad guys of this world are the american-british-jewish elite , who are not happy with being prosperous in their land and wants to control the entire world. And that today they have no limits in their tactics ..all the way
to financing terrorism and shutting down civilian planes,providing chemical weapons to terrorist as they did in Syria..
or even killing thousands of their own citizens as they did in 9/11 in 2001 WTC attacks ,to justify middle east invasions. Is just pure insanity ,what the Neocons elite are doing..

Any lost of human live ,specially civilians women and children is a tragedy regardless of the ethnic group, but once you push a nation into a dead end..and they start a world war in self defense you cannot predict the outcome of it.. and civilians will take the worse part.. Most casualties in world war2 came consequence not of direct fire but of lack of food. Still is a consequence of the war.. and unintended consequence. Everyone hears about the "hollocaust".. but no one mentions the massacre of germans civilians by american-british bombing killing 200,000.. not by unintended consequence but by direct bombing of the "liberators". in IRAQ they killing a similar number in modern times under fake claims of weapons of mass destruction.the american-british-jeiwsh elite already have a long history of using as tactic the bombing of civilians to win wars.. they did it in Germany , in Japan with the two atomic bomb.. In Serbia they began to target civilians to force Serbians to surrender.. and they did it in eastern Ukraine too.. in other words the Western Globalist elite does not play fair.. they are criminals sick people and will use any tactic to achieve their world domination ,including shuting down civilian planes or giving nuclear weapons to terrorist.. which i will not be surprised if they pushing in that direction. . and in my opinion the people who conspire to commit a crime , in this case a world war.. are even more guilty that the people who fire the first bullets . And the anglo zionist powers ONCE AGAIN.. are trying to provoke a major world war today ,this time with Russia. Is a very dangerous /evil faction ,the Bilderberg/Masonic/zionist elite that needs to be destroyed or they will destroy the planet..

Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:30 am; edited 13 times in total

mack8

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Post n°412

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

mack8 Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:51 pm

Oh god not this one and this crap again... Rolling Eyes

One might say that these people do more to discredit rational pro-Russian, or just pro-objective views and opinions, than anything else.

This may well be the truth. Having clicked on some links posted on this forum regarding russian or novorussian matters, i could swear in some comment sections i saw half-coherent rantings (about jews and "anglozionists" and all that crap) exactly in the same "writing style" as above, which made me think it MUST be the same person. Does he ever sleeps, eats, takes a day off? Real person or sock-puppet?

Anyway regarding the Kharkiv explosion, the Kiev regime claimed almost immediately that they arrested "four ukrainian citizens" that have been "trained in Russia, Belgorod". Pretty damn quick investigation... or not. I would bet on not. Don't think anyone (here) would be surprised if this was staged, we wouldn't expect the Kiev junta and their US puppeteers to care about some puny human lives...
Btw i remember reading that one of those killed was alleged to be a "prominent activist"?

kvs

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Post n°413

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

kvs Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:42 pm

Can we move the off topic flame fest to another thread?

Personally, I like fora such as this one which is not run by a collection of butthurt banfags like a certain other forum. This means
you have a "richer" spectrum of opinions, but this does not negate any content. In fact it is the censoring fora which are
suppressing content. Too bad so many head on over to the NATO butthurt forum instead of coming here.

On topic:

The developments in Kharkov indicate to me that things are slipping for the Kiev regime. The Right Sector and Galician
nationalists never had support in south-east Ukraine. These clowns have succeeded in destroying Ukraine's economy
(wait and see what happens this year) and starting a war of suppression on the Donbas. The Kiev clowns have also
imposed repression across the south-east which the NATO media never mentions.

But the people of the south-east are not willing slaves. Their patience is running out and it is looking more and more
likely that the clowns in Kiev will be running to NATO for safety in the near future.

Regular

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Post n°414

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

Regular Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:09 am

flamming_python wrote:

Regular wrote:Or single pissed off person. Like honey jar attack

Well it was a drive-by bombing so probably at least a couple of people involved

Then we have to look who was the target. Local maidan leader. Could be anyone who did this. We often forget about Ukrainian mafia and their role in this conflict

flamming_python

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Post n°415

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

flamming_python Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:00 am

Regular wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Regular wrote:Or single pissed off person. Like honey jar attack

Well it was a drive-by bombing so probably at least a couple of people involved

Then we have to look who was the target. Local maidan leader. Could be anyone who did this. We often forget about Ukrainian mafia and their role in this conflict

Mafia? No I doubt it, too high-profile and too many ramifications for them - all they're interested in is money, not undue attention.

It's either pro-Novorussian radicals, or Kiev's men, simple as that.

Well, whoever did it - Ukrainian security forces are rolling into Kharkov as we speak. Apparently Turchinov has announced a special anti-terrorist regime there.
We'll see a crackdown shortly, and a bunch of arrests. What will happen next? Anyone's guess.

But I hope Kharkov wakes up. It has been silent ever since it was beaten right into submission in April.

magnumcromagnon

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Post n°416

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

magnumcromagnon Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:39 am

GarryB, do us the honors and clean up this thread!

Kyo

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Post n°417

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

Kyo Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:00 am

flamming_python wrote:
We'll see a crackdown shortly, and a bunch of arrests.

A bunch of scapegoats, for sure.

GarryB

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Post n°418

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

GarryB Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:35 am

GarryB, do us the honors and clean up this thread!

You mean fix the gramma or the spelling mistakes?

Seems to me to be people having a discussion and explaining their positions.

Unless I missed something everything seems fairly civil and in order.

higurashihougi

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Post n°419

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

higurashihougi Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:19 am

Vann7 wrote:Hitler did not killed millions of soviets.. the war did it..

Hitler did not killed but he had his minions and subordinates killed millions of Rus, Slavs, Jews, and other people whom the Nazi theory considers as "inferior race".

You have to remember that xenophobia and racial discrimination is a distinctive characteristic of Nazism.

According to the book "Soviet Motherland 1917 - 1980", Moskva Politics Publisher, 1981, p. 251, director of 12 May 1941 said:

Remember:

- You have no nerve, no heart, no compassionate. You are born from German steel and iron.

- Destroy all compassionate and pain inside you. You must killed every Russian you meet and you must not stop. No matter whether in front of you are old man, women, boys or girls.

- We must forced the world to surrender. You are German and German need to destroy whatever living things who hinder your road.

According to "Soviet Motherland 1917 - 1980", p. 260

Hitler wrote:Moskva will be a big lake pernamently cover the capital of Russian race.

(...)

We have to encircle the city so that no Russian soldier and no citizen, no matter whether they are male, female, or children, can escape.

(...)

We must destroy the city and citizen of Moskva.

And it is said that Hitler once established a special force for destruction of Kremlin.

You need to remember that one of the reason why Russian people put up a fierce resistance, beside pure patriotism, is their hatred and anger towards the mistreatment and ill-manner of Nazi troops.

I dislike zionism and the zionist thugs who are rampaging in the goverment of USrael. But I believe it is wrong to defend Hitler disreard of any reasons. Because they are the same shit of xenophobe who believe in race supermacy.

Again, you have to remember that xenophobia and racial discrimination is a distinctive characteristic of Nazism.

TR1

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Post n°420

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

TR1 Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:20 am

If anyone needed proof that Vann is mentally defecient, look no further than the last post.

Hitler did not intend to kill millions of Russian LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

Vann7

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Post n°421

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

Vann7 Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:21 am

Tymoshenko is back Very Happy

about the hitler thing.. i don't think anyone modern society /culture start wars just for the fun of it..
Hitler wanted to liberate Germany from the west.. and recover their lost territories and he picked
the wrong ways to do it.. Many just become blinded by their hatred .. and cannot understand that in world wars
you cannot control the outcome of the conflict.. So because people want to continue speaking about Hitler
and how "ignorant " i am.. here is the untold story of Hitler.. not the crazy nut ,people use to call him..
Wars cannot be predicted ever how they end.. no one can predict the outcome of a world war.. or how many will die..
IF Russia is provoked into a world war ,like American-British-Jewish elite wants and trying to do today..with Ukraine and nuclear weapons used.. Russia will be in a very high risk to have to destroy USA and UK in order to preserve world peace and millions killed. Is called Unintended Consequences.. something you do not plan to do it, but that could happen. For the people that their belief system can be easily blinded by emotions , the next video is NOT for you.. Im not pro Hitler or Pro Nazis ,or not even Anti jews, Im simply pro FACTS . nothing more nothing less.
And facts are that the hollocaust never happened is was a blatant lie .. and facts is that world war 2 was provoked
by the west.. not by germany.. and fact is that Hitler will have never reach power ,had the americans /british and jews weren't so corrupt and evil with germany.

the next video is not for weak minded.
Adolf Hitler - The untold TRUE story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vfdZtpx_ug

Hannibal Barca

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Post n°422

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

Hannibal Barca Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:55 pm

Julia is walking again! A miracle happened!

Werewolf

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Post n°423

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

Werewolf Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:15 pm

What garbage.

http://www.1000dokumente.de/index.html?c=dokument_de&dokument=0138_gpo&object=facsimile&l=de

Generalplan Ost, signed 1942 which was signed by SS officers and Hitler himself to genocide 80% of russian population and ensure the "won" territory to expand towards east.
The plan was to exterminate majority of population and an immidiate settlement of germans in the east to ensure that the "won" territory will be settled for germans.

Page 78 of the Document states and i translate, which mentions the settlements of germans into russian and baltic regions after genocide with the remaining population.

To this counts an unknown number of Russian-germans. Further which has to be taken into account is, that from the non germanic population by systematic selection and "performance breeding" which can be won out of:
Estonians 50%
Latvian 50%
Lithunian 15%.

estimated 750.000 population

For new settlements the sum of settlers counts for 5,65 Million people.

Which means Euthanasia.

Page 74, contains that 60-75% on Ukrainian soil to be used as Farms of 8 Bases.

http://www.dfg.de/pub/generalplan/downloads/dfg_wissenschaft_planung_vertreibung_katalog.pdf

Page 25,

The implementation of a rassistic utopia

The New Order of Eastern Europe was constantly followed by racial ideological permisses and concepts. So the initial planning was a "Totalcensus" of racial inspection and "selection" of the indigenous population. For the part of indengous population that were counted worth for "Re-germanification" and racial tolerated foreign people, there were plans and options for "Germanification" or "Back-population" (meaning of euthanasia to aryan) .... RHSA (Reichssicherheitsamt) planned extermination of 31 mln slavic people and using 14 mln as Slave labor for building settlements.

Firebird

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Post n°424

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

Firebird Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:14 pm

On MP there are nuts saying Putin is just like Hitler.

But on here, there are nuts who see it "differently" Rolling Eyes

They say that Hitler is just like Putin.

End result? Nutters 1 ------ Russiadefence.net 0

I agree with Flamming and the sane members of this forum. That sort of shit should have no place on a RUSSIA forum. Its not even relevant to a Ukraine thread. All this is doing is putting sane people off posting and even joining.

Walther von Oldenburg

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Post n°425

Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

Walther von Oldenburg Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:50 pm

This forum does not have any official political orientation so people can write whatever they like. MP.net is staunchingly pro-US by definition. They have it written in their user agreement.

Werewolf - Hitler's ideology proved to be nothing more than cogitations of a madman - that's why he lost the war and his ideology died together with him. Germany and Russia exist in a different form than imagined by their respective rulers at that tme.

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