The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

GarryB wrote:

Wonder where these brand new Nona-Ks came from...hmmm.

Pretty desperate dude... Nona-Ks were developed in the 1970s... they are hardly new... what is next a photo of a rebel with a Mosin Nagant rifle... clear evidence they were supplied from Russias weapon stocks...  

Yeah, because its "just" the Nonas.

The only desperation is you people's comebacks.

Show me a photo of Ukranians using Nona-Ks in Donbass please.

Also, will you please moderate offensive posts like Werewolfs?
I believe they break forum rules.

Also, will you please moderate offensive posts like Werewolfs?
I believe they break forum rules.

Same as TR1s if that will be the case, he's insulting peoples left and right just like he complains about others doing it against himself.

As to the pictures, yeah, it's pretty pathetic, just some tanks with some writing on them (could even be PS), the pictures themselves are no proof whatsoever that they are in Novorussia or that they have been in Novorussia*. But perhaps he should spend his time preaching on MP.net, he has a much more "willing" audience there.

* not that i oppose a russian intervention in Novorussia, on the contrary, THIS is what could end this tragic mess in days, the pukes won't be able to run fast enough let alone have any guts to put up any resistance. But the very fact that (sadly) the pukes still control parts of Novorussia shows clearly that there are no REGULAR russian troops there, volunteers which might even be soldiers yes, significant weapons transfers quite possibly, but nothing more than that- you don't want anyone with half a brain to believe that the russian government will end entire units, as claimed by the usual russophobe pro-US propagandists, in insufficient numbers and with no proper logistical, back-up fire and AIR support!? Hell, IF they will send exposed units like that, there will be mutiny! Won't hold my breath waiting for even a HINT of proof of such. Any direct russian intervention would cause the pukies to collapse in 3 days, i personally hope it will happen sooner rather than later because not only this tragedy could finally end, but also securing Novorussia and linking it to Crimea is critical to russian security imo.
IF dog-forbid Novorussia is fully occupied by the pukes then expect it and the rest of the fascist Ukraine to serve as a US springboard for infiltrating and destabilizing Russia ITSELF. If there is something i am bitter about and i reproach the russian government is this very lack of DIRECT intervention in this mess right at it's borders, i of course am not in the position to tell the government what to do, nor tell the russian citizens where and what to fight for, but surely it is pretty damn clear what dangers this US instigated mess in Ukraine is posing to Russia's security.

I'll just close this by sending the usual "f*** you" to the US imperialists and the traitorous stooges serving them, wherever and whoever they are. Looking forward to their inevitable fall, hopefully in my lifetime.

Russian Fighter Jet Gives US Recon Airplane "Top Gun"-Style Interception

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-11/russian-fighter-jet-gives-us-recon-airplane-top-gun-style-interception#comment-5982633

Uh, no.

I don't make entire posts that have 1.) no substance and 2.) are just sentences of profanity laced personal insults, racist and nationalistic rants, and general ill-mannered thoughts.

Go through the past few pages and compare my posts and Werewolfs.

If he said a few insulting remarks, I wouldn't care- whatever.
But entire posts of vulgarity, calls for modding.
Unless you want the forum to decline into just juvenile emotional idiocy.

For the 50th time however.

If you guys can't be arsed to read my post, then don't open your mouth.
Those tanks are IN ROSTOV. And that writing is clearly not PS. If you don't get the significance of those photos, I am not going to spoon-feed you to the conclusions.

Of course, posting a few on-topic photos is what led to the vitriol in the past few pages- hence my call for SOME modding.

I don't intend to reply to the "special children" section from now on (werewolf, Vann, and quite a few others) so don't worry about that.

TR1 wrote:Uh, no.

I don't make entire posts that have 1.) no substance and 2.) are just sentences of profanity laced personal insults, racist and nationalistic rants, and general ill-mannered thoughts.

Go through the past few pages and compare my posts and Werewolfs.

If he said a few insulting remarks, I wouldn't care- whatever.
But entire posts of vulgarity, calls for modding.
Unless you want the forum to decline into just juvenile emotional idiocy.

For the 50th time however.

If you guys can't be arsed to read my post, then don't open your mouth.
Those tanks are IN ROSTOV. And that writing is clearly not PS. If you don't get the significance of those photos, I am not going to spoon-feed you to the conclusions.

Of course, posting a few on-topic photos is what led to the vitriol in the past few pages- hence my call for SOME modding.

I don't intend to reply to the "special children" section from now on (werewolf, Vann, and quite a few others) so don't worry about that.

So those tanks are in ROSTOV INSIDE RUSSIA how the fuck does this prove a russian invasion you halfwit?

You want to sell us your piss as rain?

Sounds like the same garbage like US officials claim. "Russian military excercises in russia are creating tensions." So russian tanks in russia are now an invasion, thanks you proof once again you are an american.A brain is completley absent.

TR1 wrote:I don't intend to reply to the "special children" section from now on (werewolf, Vann, and quite a few others) so don't worry about that.

They've long been proud members of my ignore list. Do yourself a favour and do what I did.

Maybe it might help you towards not making enemies out of 90% of the forum either; really all these vendettas are getting distracting and muddy the waters of good technical and political conservation here.

I see the Jewish Internet Defense Force is here.

TR1, I suggest you report back to your masters here-->http://www.thejidf.org/

They need a progress report on how many people you convinced with your laughable arguments on how artillery guns made in the 70s constitute a Russian invasion.

Most of your assertions are laughable, you think that if there are no photos of a piece of equipment in use in a region by the Ukrainians, then it must have been given to them by the Russians?

Amusing postulation there, Twitter Researcher 1. You forget that Ukraine inherited strategic bombers and nuclear cruise missiles, but a widely manufactured artillery gun? It cannot be!

However, in your defense I do not think calling you names is warranted and your patience and refusal from responding in kind is to be applauded.

But I digress.

I found the photo you posted of the tank with a dis-figuration to be very interesting. I will repost it so that no one has to go back a few pages to see it.



First off, the damage is spherical in nature, evidenced by the circular nature of the dispersal pattern of the surviving armor pieces.

What is curious about it is that there is no evident penetration of the armor array.

Even the smallest HEAT warheads like that of a RPG-7 leave a pattern like this.



This leaves me to believe that the damage done was by something with an HE payload, possible a RPG-7 with a HE warhead. Underequipped and incompetent the UAF may be, they would not use such a weapon against a tank.

Let us assume that the photos of the T-72B3 on the plain and in the woods and all the other photos are not doctored, faked, manipulated etc. and they are of authentic Russian-made T-72B3s

One thing to immediately notice is the environment in which they are in, most if not all the photos that I have seen show them in wide space environments, with open sight lines in 360 degrees around the tank and very little cover to try and sneak up on it.

What this means is that these tanks would have had to been taken out by a ranged weapon of sufficient power to pierce the armor, of sufficient range to protect the user of said weapon against the tank it is being fired against.

So the significant majority of the supposed T-72B3 that have been knocked out have been hit with long-range high-power AT weapons.

The curious thing about the tank that you posted a picture of is that it was not hit by a high-power long-range weapon, but by something with a HE payload, and judging by the damage done, not a significant one meaning the weapon fired was likely a short-range weapon. Either a RPG-7 or a HE round fired by a cannon.

I would like to know more about the photo, who took it, what unit, what website etc before I make a final conclusion but I doubt I will receive that information.

All in all, I would conclude that this tank was damaged in either testing or small scale conflict like that of Dagestan, Chechnya etc and not a wide-open battlefield like that seen in the photos of supposed T-72B3s in Eastern Ukraine.

Donetsk republic warns of provocations with men dressed in Russian military uniform

Earlier, the DPR Defence Ministry said that in recent days the Ukrainian military had intensified shelling of the self-proclaimed republic’s territory
MOSCOW, April 11. /TASS/. Ukrainian military are going to stage provocations with participation of people dressed in Russian Armed Forces’ military uniform, the spokesman for the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic’s (DPR) Defence Ministry said on Saturday.
"Our intelligence says that vehicles carrying people dressed in Russian military uniform have left the city of Dnepropetrovsk," the local Donetsk news agency quoted him as saying. "We are afraid that Ukrainian military disguised as Russian servicemen are going to stage another provocation in Ukraine."
Earlier, the DPR Defence Ministry said that in recent days the Ukrainian military had intensified shelling of the self-proclaimed republic’s territory.
Along with this, DPR Speaker Denis Pushilin warned of Kiev’s possible provocations linked to Malaysian air experts’ arrival in the DPR to again explore the MH17 crash site.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150411/1020756837.html

Solution to Ukraine's Troubles? Stay Away From NATO, Win Russia, EU Support

 Is it true that SU-27 going to find their cockpit is fried by a laser pod in self defense. There is recourse, and most of these US spy aircraft already have a laser missile defense against A2A missiles fitted to them . Russian A2A cant take down a US recon plane because of laser pod ?

max steel wrote: Is it true that SU-27 going to find their cockpit is fried by a laser pod in self defense. There is recourse, and most of these US spy aircraft already have a laser missile defense against A2A missiles fitted to them . Russian A2A cant take down a US recon plane because of laser pod ?

What laser pod? The only western podded laser system I know of is the AMASE used for DIIRCM on the Apache.

I don't know who told you this but in reality, in terms of numbers and production, the Russians have the most lasers on their aircraft.

And laser defence systems are unheard of on recon aircraft except the Ka-52, which is Russian.

Have you been going on f-16.net?

2SPOOKY4U wrote:

They need a progress report on how many people you convinced with your laughable arguments on how artillery guns made in the 70s constitute a Russian invasion.

Most of your assertions are laughable, you think that if there are no photos of a piece of equipment in use in a region by the Ukrainians, then it must have been given to them by the Russians?

Amusing postulation there, Twitter Researcher 1. You forget that Ukraine inherited strategic bombers and nuclear cruise missiles, but a widely manufactured artillery gun? It cannot be!

There are only two countries that use the NONA-K gun. Russian and Ukraine. And the Ukraine had a whopping TWO such guns in it's inventory. So those NONA-K guns in rebel use can really only have come from one place. And that's Russia.

Yeah because Khan said so . There are many weapons inventory in E.Ukraine fyi .

First go introduce yourself and follow the rule .

I took the number of NONA-K guns in Ukraines inventory from the Military Balance 2014. If there is some other source giving different figures, I'm not aware of it.

Cucumber Khan wrote:I took the number of NONA-K guns in Ukraine inventory from the Military Balance 2014. If there is some other source giving different figures, I'm not aware of it.

Only two? Seems legit. Is that even a Nona-K? Looks to me like a D-30, although the photo is grainy.

In all honesty, it would not surprise me if they had more Ukraine has more, I remember an incident in the Kiev metro, where one train arrived with one serial # that was not on the list of trains that are supposed to be on the line.

Man, that was a long time ago. I will go and dig out my Ukrainian passport to show as proof that I was born in Ukraine. Since most of you will probably not believe me.

Werewolf wrote:Sounds like the same garbage like US officials claim. "Russian military excercises in russia are creating tensions." So russian tanks in russia are now an invasion, thanks you proof once again you are an american.A brain is completley absent.

Note how this troll has succeeded in framing the discussion. Russian tanks in the Donbas are supposedly some sort of epic
violation of God knows what morality and "laws" that one can't find written anywhere.

1) It is obvious by now, except for retards and malicious trolls, that there is only Russian equipment, volunteers and advisors in the Donbas.
All the yapping from the butchers in Kiev about being invaded every Friday (look it up) is an utter joke.

2) NATO members have already deployed advisors (from the USA, Poland, soon to be Canada and UK), mercenaries, volunteers and equipment
to assist the butcher regime in Kiev.

But here we are wasting thread space playing according to the rules established by the TR1 troll.

As I said before: if NATO and its head dog the USA give itself the right to invade (Iraq) or bomb (Serbia, Libya, etc.) in the name of whatever,
then Russia has every moral and legal right to protect the millions of ethnic Russians in the Donbas from the attempts to ethnically cleanse
them by the Stepan Bandera worshipers in Kiev. This protection can include anything from full blown invasion to support in the form we
are seeing. The bleating from the butchers in Kiev about how Ukraine's sovereignty is being violated is not worth the time of day since they
are a war criminal regime that has killed over between 10,000 and 20,000 civilians in the Donbas with primarily indiscriminate shelling.

I don't know about the Nona-Ks, but I do know how the rebels got their hands on the Nona-S vehicles.

The rebels swiped them from the Ukrainian 25th airmobile brigade (or some other I forget) when a bunch of villagers surrounded the former very early on in the conflict. The rebels were in those villages too, all those BMDs and the 2 Nonas were impounded and the Ukrainian airborne men were later sent on a bus out of rebel territory (a few of them defected to the rebels though).

For the next couple of months those 2 Nonas were scooting everywhere around Slavyansk and firing on surrounding Ukrainian positions.
This was well before the first 'help' from Russia's stocks towards the rebels was even suspected.

There have been/are several Ukrainian airborne regiments/brigades in the Donbass; at least one of them had to have been equipped with the Nona-K towed guns; given that these weapons are designated as equipment for airborne forces.

It's not at all unreasonable to postulate that over the course of the many rebel victories and Ukrainian retreats over the past year, with the Urkainians often leaving their gear behind - the rebels captured such guns from the airborne formations, much like they did with the BMDs and Nona-Ss earlier on.

False Flag Waning!!!

yesterday Donetsk leaders are saying they have information of Kiev militia using Russian Army uniforms in the city of Dnepropretrovsk under kiev gov control. moving in civilian cars . To start provocations and frame Russia for it..

So be ready for any major massacre in Ukraine with "lucky cameras" in the right place
filming it.. and fake witness reporting too about that..  The ideal place for the false flag
could be Mariupol..  But it could also be used somehow for a terrorist attack against
Ukraine nuclear reactors that are already being news lately ,albeit will be difficult to make it
credible to Russian people.. but as long as the Euromaidans believe it.. it could be used to
justify to ukraine citizens pro Kiev ,a major retaliation against Crimea or Russian cities . ^^

Can't find now the link of the news.. if get it ,will post here..
Overall it looks there is conflicting dynamics happening in Ukraine.. For one side you have the
parliament blocking minsk agreements one by one.. with their Anti-Communism laws and suggesting a martial law soon.. and poroshenko saying a referendum for Federalization of eastern ukraine 90% of ukrainians will not support it.. (without even giving it a try).
and in the other side in the battle ground ,you have Ukrainian Army vs Volunteers Fascist army
fighting each other.. two nights ago . .

http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/04/uaf-vs-ukrainian-volunteers-oun.html

and then you have a major offensive ,invasion to donetsk Airport of tanks that was
repelled..

http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/04/kiev-tanks-attack-donetsk-airport.html

then you have "Accidents" being reported at Ukraine nuclear reactor..

http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/04/accident-at-south-ukrainian-nuclear.html

The reactors "Accidents" looks like black mail to me.. that kiev junta is sending a message
Russia and Europe that is ready to blow up them if they don't get what they want. ^^

So basically the best way to see and understand the conflict in Ukraine.. is to see it like
a Beslan school terrorist Hostage situation.. but instead of a school ..is an entire nation
with 8 millions ethnic russians ,friendly to Russia ,being kidnapped.. and the terrorist
the ultra nationalist fascist powers are at the control of TR1 lovely freedom nation.

So Russia can invade yes.. but what are they going to do after they take easily donetsk and lugansk.. with other pro Russian cities and towns under control of kiev? Thats when i think
the etnic cleansing will begin.. and with the "mysterious assassins" using Russian Soldiers uniforms. People in Russia will not buy it.. but the Euromaidan brainwashed thugs will do..
and remember that Kiev have a complete Censoring of Russian media and any media that
contradict american /baltics narrative of 'Russian Aggression " ,"Russian Invasion" etc.

So this is why for Russia Public Opinion is very important.. not only the one in Russia but also
the one in Ukraine and in Europe and not neccessarily but also good in America too. Because
if Russia have the public opinion , then it will be impossible to manipulate Ukrainians /euromaidans into the "Russian agression" or "Russian terrorism" , or Putin FSB..

So kiev needs Public Opinion in Ukraine to be manipulated ,for people to turn away their
dissapointment with the government.. towards hate against Russia. And this is where American
/Baltics "Freedom lovely" media comes into place. With the brainwashing of the entire Ukraine
society.. and trying to make them believe that the economic problems of Ukrainians and all their misery is because Russia interference. and completely ignore that its the government they have
in Power and USA and Baltics ,the ones provoking their misery.. Using Ukraine as a tool for sanctions against Russia..  you saw that perfectly in Mariupol false flag civilians attack and the MH-17..  Kiev Junta shoot it down.. and bombed them and Russia got the sanctions and not kiev.  

So public opinion will be very important for Russia for whatever actions they do.. extremely
important.. and as much as possible..because if Russia is seen *not as the problem* of Ukrainians misery.. but kiev.. then the Fascist in Ukie Government ,take the big Risk ,that the
whole Revolution could reverse.. and Instead of turning their anger against Russia ,turn it against Kiev and remove them from power. Without Russia firing a single shot.  

IT was public opinion (in combination with rapid reaction of Sevastopol forces and their friendly stance )what allowed Russia take crimea without firing a single shot.. even when there was 20,000 ukies defending it..

And it will be Public Opinion the only way for Russia to really end the conflict.. When the Euromaidans no longer see a point in seeing Russia as their enemy..and instead choose to join
forces and negotiate. We already saw the first signs of this happening with Oligarchs from kiev government asking the rebels to help them overthrow poroshenko..

All said.. it looks to me.. that US-kiev plans seems to be to frozen the conflict , and try to provoke Russia ,in a major terrorist attack against civilians either in Ukraine or in Russia Crimea
not before a false flag they create..  to justify their actions against Russia or the Rebels.
With the intentions to extend the sanctions against Russia ,that are supposed to be lifted in July.

The keyword here is Patience and good will.. Russia will never solve the Ukraine conflict
that TR1 lovely freedom ,never corrupt nation created in Kiev with its army. If Russia invade and even if they capture kiev.. Lithuane and poland at the orders of USA.. will be sending
Criminals to plant road side bombs and kill Russian soldiers.. and then you have th NUCLEAR
REACTORS.. huge Problem... huge..  Is like i said a BESLAN school hostage crisis.. but instead of a school is a whole country being kidnapped.. and the nuclear reactors could be used
as the terrorist bombs.. to destroy the entire nation ,once Russia invade and later the west blame Russia for the invasion provoking the destabilization of Ukraine security.. Etc..

So Russia will never end the conflict effectively by military ways ,unless they manage
to have good opinion with vast majority of Ukrainians. because invading with their Army
without the support of Europe or Public opinion of Ukrainians will be very bad.. not only for
their economy but also dangerous for the life of 40 millions ukrainians.. TR1's lovely freedom nation ,could easily blow up the nuclear reactors , as they did with the Mh-17 and later blame
it on Russia. In the next few couple or more months be ready for more well coordinated false
flags attacks. That will be blamed either on the Rebels or "Russian invasion" or Putin's missile.
If Europe fully lift the sanctions on Russia in summer.. regardless of what false flag happens in Ukraine.. and Russia get the mistrals..it will be a major shift in EU policy on ukraine. .and will be siding with Russia.. against US interest.
.

Vann7 wrote:

False Flag Waning!!!

Donetsk leaders are saying they have information of Kiev militia using Russian Army uniforms
in the city of Dnepropretrovsk under kiev gov control. moving in civilian cars . To start provocations and frame Russia for it..

So be ready for any major massacre in Ukraine with "lucky cameras" in the right place
filming it.. and fake witness reporting too about that..  The ideal place for the false flag
could be Mariupol..  But it could also be used somehow for a terrorist attack against
Ukraine nuclear reactors that are already being news lately ,albeit will be difficult to make it
credible to Russian people.. but as long as the Euromaidans believe it.. it could be used to
justify to ukraine citizens pro Kiev ,a major retaliation against Crimea or Russian cities . ^^

Link.. in a moment.
 

 

The Russian intelligence agencies should be all over this, they probably have the information and should act on it.

Not much they can do other than release the info of this possible false flag all over media so that if something does happen, it will be thrown into question. No matter what though, US and other parties like Poland will believe it because either they suggested it or will tow the line regardless how stupid it is.

Cucumber Khan wrote:I took the number of NONA-K guns in Ukraines inventory from the Military Balance 2014. If there is some other source giving different figures, I'm not aware of it.

And we have seen no photos of captured Nonas, unlike good footage of Ukrainian positions overrun and captured with everything else (that we know Ukraine actually operates).

But of course the folks here will use mental gymnastics to try to get away from the obvious conclusions.

Nevermind the rebels saying "WE GOT A CRAPTON OF VOENTORG", nahh, the guys here know better.

Also, it is of course not just the Nonas. It is Nonas in the background of a bunch of T-72B3s . That anyone with half a set of brains knows came from Russia.

2SPOOKY4U wrote:

All in all, I would conclude that this tank was damaged in either testing or small scale conflict like that of Dagestan, Chechnya etc and not a wide-open battlefield like that seen in the photos of supposed T-72B3s in Eastern Ukraine.

Too bad that conclusion is complete BS.

No T-72B3s have seen combat in Dagestan or Chechnya.

And testing does not happen on random vehicles within units lol.

It happens on specially prepared vehicles on special polygons in a controlled environment.

And those photos were swiped from VK accounts of confirmed Russian armed force soldiers (or ex-soldiers) who post in "Unit" pages specifically for the units they served in.
This isn't rocket science. The good folks @ Otvaga have long confirmed those photos are from units who were deployed in Rostov.....and then went for a little vacation.


But yeah whatever. Russia isn't fueling warfare on a state near its border. Putin just wants peace!

Roflmao. The naivety here is stunning.

TR1 wrote:

gregoire wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

gregoire wrote:What's tr1 doing here anyway? No really, why?

He is here to remind us about "Russian aggression" and "Russian Invasion"..
and how many thousands Russian army soldiers killed like kiev says perhaps?

He's a classic troll using all hasbara tricks to divert a normal conversation. Besides, one tank does not make a battalion.

Trolling= posting relevant information?

lol. You people are pathetic.

Normal conversation- you all circlejerking one view.

Right.

I am sorry if the photos make you uncomfortable, but it really is not my problem.

You are the only one who thinks your posts are relevant. And I know you like the circlejerk or you wouldn't show your face in here.

I will ignore you now.