PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

^^^ Stealth has been obsolete since 1999.

Only reason that phrase is still thrown around is because Lockheed Martin has pumped too much cash into PR to just drop it after everything...

Stealth is stealth to X band radar and lets off plenty of radiation and heat, so passive sensors will pick them up from afar, while other type radars will too. I remember reading that Russia was contemplating using a different band in order to detect stealth, Ki or something as such.

As well, KRET is working on radars that their electronics will use Photons rather than simple electrons, so there will definatly be performance boosts if it works.

Stealth is stealth to X band radar and lets off plenty of radiation and heat, so passive sensors will pick them up from afar, while other type radars will too. I remember reading that Russia was contemplating using a different band in order to detect stealth, Ki or something as such.

As well, KRET is working on radars that their electronics will use Photons rather than simple electrons, so there will definatly be performance boosts if it works.

PapaDragon wrote:^^^ Stealth has been obsolete since 1999.

Only reason that phrase is still thrown around is because Lockheed Martin has pumped too much cash into PR to just drop it after everything...

I beg to differ, stealth is useful but overhyped. It's useful for air-superiority, but exaggerated to the point where chuckleheads from the West who like to hyperventilate and claim they can defeat every nation on Earth with F-22's , F-35's, and B-2's.

I agree... it is not the game changer it is hyped up to be, but it is not worthless either.

It is like ERA on a tank... on its own it wont stop an incoming round so have heavy armour behind it and an APS hitting incoming rounds before they hit the ERA, and also move your tank around so it is not a sitting target, and of course paint it so it is hard to spot and cover it in local vegetation so it is hard to spot.

On its own it is useless... a small light fighter with a decent jammer that can jam AMRAAM and AIM-9X and has thrust vector engines and is more manouverable than your overpriced stealth jet can simply find you with IRST an close in a kill you with cannon fire.

As a layer that includes many layers of defence it can help the PAK FA to get close to its targets and kill them without them knowing what is happening... strip away the stealth and the PAK FA is still a capable fighter... strip away the stealth on an F-22 and you have an interceptor rather than a fighter... it is a sniper in camouflage that hopes to take on everyone at arms length.

The F-35 is a stealthy Buccaneer... a light strike aircraft with carrier capable versions.

The B-2 is a large slow aircraft that most interceptors should be able to shoot down if they can find it... and the Su-35 with IRST and L band radar and of course ground based radar should be able to find it easily enough.

The final stage of state testing of PAK FA fighter was started
Russian Aviaton » Thursday July 9, 2015 18:50 MSK

State testing of T-50 (PAK FA) fifth-generation fighter is entering its final stage; the jet demonstrates great performance and outmatches its foreign analogues, Vzglyad.ru reports with reference to Commander-in-Chief of the Russian air forces, Viktor Bondarev.

«The testing is in progress, it demonstrates great performance, the weapon system works great in terms of attacking both ground and air targets. The deliveries will be started next year; we are completing tests,» RIA Novosti cited Bondarev.

The Commander-in-Chief explained that the fighter would feature some stealth technologies, which is more important compared to speed (PAK FA’s maximum speed is over Mach 2). Missile is of great importance in terms of combat capabilities. «It is fitted with the latest equipment and weapons. Moreover, we are trying to implement all the latest solutions in this project,» the General added and noted that it’s possible in case no changes in the aircraft’s design are necessary.

«Of course, its capabilities outmatch everything that exists and will be developed in the near-term in the area of aircraft,» the Commander-in-Chief noted. «It will be as good as F-22 and F-35 jets. Moreover, it will outmatch these vehicles by many parameters,» he explained. Bondarev also said that the mass production of T-50 (PAK FA) fifth-generation fighters would be started in 2017. The number of purchased aircraft will depend on capabilities of the aircraft industry. «We are completing the jet’s testing and its mass production will be started in 2017. We are going to purchase as many vehicles as the enterprises can manufacture, because it's impossible to reach an output of 24 vehicles per year immediately. They produce four ones – we purchase four jets, they produce 10 ones – we purchase 10 fighters,” the Commander-in-Chief said.

Earlier Deputy Minister of Defense Yuri Borisov said that due to “new economic situation” the Ministry of Defense may reduce the number of purchased PAK FA fifth-generation fighters. Initially it was planned to purchase 10 PAK FA fighters and hand them over to military units for training and after that purchase another batch of 60 T-50 jets. T-50 (PAK FA) is the fifth-generation fighter fitted with a brand-new avionics suite and advanced radar with active phased antenna array.

It performed its maiden flight in January 2010 in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. It was demonstrated for the first time at MAKS-2011 airshow held in Zhukovsky (Moscow Region). Three PAK FA prototypes took part in MAKS-2013 airshow: they have demonstrated formation flying. Compared to previous generation fighters PAK FA has a number of unique capabilities combining the functions of a strike-fighter and a fighter.

Components made of composites, cutting-edge technologies, the jet’s aerodynamic configuration and stealth technologies grant a very low thermal and optical signature. Stealth capabilities dramatically increase the fighter’s combat effectiveness. The jet is capable of destroying air and ground targets under any weather and lighting conditions, the company noted.

http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2015/7/9/3327/

GarryB wrote:

The MiG-35 was within budget and likely did everything the Indians required officially, but its main fault was that it was Russian, and India has a policy of not buying all its aircraft from one source... of course this time their policy bit them in the ass...

Well said Garry, I couldn't have put this any better. Russia needs to find more markets for its hardware in Europe and Latin America and consequently reduce its exposure to third world corrupt countries like India.

Fortunately, Putin has realized this mistake and is taking remedial action by selling Su 35 to Pakistan and possibly Iskander to Saudi Arabia.

jhelb wrote:

GarryB wrote:

The MiG-35 was within budget and likely did everything the Indians required officially, but its main fault was that it was Russian, and India has a policy of not buying all its aircraft from one source... of course this time their policy bit them in the ass...

Well said Garry, I couldn't have put this any better. Russia needs to find more markets for its hardware in Europe and  Latin America and consequently reduce its exposure to third world corrupt countries like India.

Fortunately, Putin has realized this mistake and is taking remedial action by selling Su 35 to Pakistan and possibly Iskander to Saudi Arabia.

Wrong thread.

2SPOOKY4U wrote:Some very interesting photos.


Notice on the back of this PAK-FA, there is the little pyramid housing two identical but opposite facing EO systems.




And here is a new photo, with the same system being mounted on the underside of the front fuselage.




Very interesting, I am curious to see the final EO suite for the PAK-FA.

That Suit is belonging to sort of first generation of sensors for situational/threat awareness or 101KS-U but i was read on some other source that those how you called suit of sensors have some very peculiar solutions like those pasiv optoelectronic in the tail boom, namely he working/catching UV light radiation spectrum which is for present standards of 5Gen aircraft far from enough, ,my point is that PAKFA must get DAS and AESA which will work and give equal quality information like those one Northropgrumman AN/AAQ-37 http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/ANAAQ37F35/PublishingImages/pageImages/hero_AN-10133.jpg : on this video can be seen how he work on f35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF29GBSpRF4, And i think that KRET already work on different(second generation) of electronic/avionics/sensor fusion suit than that was 101KS-U spectrum of several opto-electronic gadget's.But We will see on second two PAKFA which according by MoD need to be assembled until end of this year.

Berkut, if you see this, could you please ask the KnAAZ insider from airforce.ru whether the T-50-6-2, 50-7, -8, -9, -10 etc. are the same or DIFFERENT airframes from T-50S-1, S-2, S-3, S-4 etc.? Thank you.

Don't need to ask him, they are different frames of course.

Berkut wrote:Don't need to ask him, they are different frames of course.

Berkut,

Can the Mig 29 to upgraded to a Mig 35? Back in Belarus we have around 2 squadrons of Mig 29. Is it possible to upgrade these Mig 29 to Mig 35?

Old model MiG-29s can be upgraded to the SMT standard.

The MiG-29M2 is the new airframe, on which the MiG-29K2 and MiG-35 are based.

Technically the MiG-29M2 is the two seat, but both are the same airframe as the MiG-29M has extra fuel where the second pilot would sit so all the new MiGs... MiG-29M and MiG-29M2, MiG-29K and MiG-29K2, and MiG-35 and MiG-35D are all based on the same airframe.

jhelb wrote:

Berkut wrote:Don't need to ask him, they are different frames of course.

Berkut,

Can the Mig 29 to upgraded to a Mig 35? Back in Belarus we have around 2 squadrons of Mig 29. Is it possible to upgrade these Mig 29 to Mig 35?

Vanilla MiG-29's (9.12/13) share nothing with MiG-35(D)/MiG-29M2. The fuselage is all different, the wings are all different, the nose is all different, the stabs are all different, the electronics are all different, the landing gear is all different, etc. At best they share some tiny minor components like fuel valves etc. At best.

What can be done to 9.12/13 frames is SMT style upgrade, or more precisely UPG. India are deeply upgrading their 9.12's to UPG standard (can think of it as more developed SMT) so that type of upgrade can be done on any 9.12/13 frame really. Malaysia will most likely do the same upgrade in coming years and RuAF has been looking into it too.

Belarus has developed their own upgrades to 9.13's, of which there is only a handful of frames.

So that we stay semi on topic; the picture above is stolen from this one;



http://russianplanes.net/id111745

Can't wait to see weapon release test from internal bay

http://www.arms-expo.ru/news/vooruzhenie_i_voennaya_tekhnika/opredelen_vozmozhnyy_obem_zakaza_na_istrebiteli_t_50/

How many aircraft are now in testing? Last I heard there were to be 12 pre-series production aircraft by the end of 2015... Any news regarding how many of these have been completed?

Himalayas EW suite developed by Radioelectronic Technologies Concern (KRET, part of Rostec Corporation) not only increases the survivability of the Russian fifth-generation fighter T-50 (PAK FA), but also neutralizes stealth technologies used by enemy aircraft, RIA Novosti reports with reference to KRET.

http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2015/7/15/3331/

Cyberspec wrote:

Himalayas EW suite developed by Radioelectronic Technologies Concern (KRET, part of Rostec Corporation) not only increases the survivability of the Russian fifth-generation fighter T-50 (PAK FA), but also neutralizes stealth technologies used by enemy aircraft, RIA Novosti reports with reference to KRET.

http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2015/7/15/3331/

That's interesting, I wonder how they managed that? My guess would be that they can track a small RCS fighter with the L-Band and X-Band AESA elements in the 'Smart Skin' suite, then the Himalaya's ECM suite fires a strong electromagnetic pulse in the general direction, that's powerful enough to make a F-22A Raptor's APG-77 AESA radar perform erratically, unpredictably, and emit radar emissions uncontrollably...thus negating the stealth advantage when the radar is experiencing explosive diarrhea!

What's even crazier is that by 2020, we may see a brand new photonic based ECM suite for the PAK-FA that's orders of magnitude more powerful then the Himalaya's ECM suite!

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:

Himalayas EW suite developed by Radioelectronic Technologies Concern (KRET, part of Rostec Corporation) not only increases the survivability of the Russian fifth-generation fighter T-50 (PAK FA), but also neutralizes stealth technologies used by enemy aircraft, RIA Novosti reports with reference to KRET.

http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2015/7/15/3331/

That's interesting, I wonder how they managed that? My guess would be that they can track a small RCS fighter with the L-Band and X-Band AESA elements in the 'Smart Skin' suite, then the Himalaya's ECM suite fires a strong electromagnetic pulse in the general direction, that's powerful enough to make a F-22A Raptor's APG-77 AESA radar perform erratically, unpredictably, and emit radar emissions uncontrollably...thus negating the stealth advantage when the radar is experiencing explosive diarrhea!

What's even crazier is that by 2020, we may see a brand new photonic based ECM suite for the PAK-FA that's orders of magnitude more powerful then the Himalaya's ECM suite!

Interesting idea....it might be something more mundane like being able to pick up various EM emissions from enemy aircraft

Berkut wrote:... the picture above is stolen from this one;

I got that picture from Karpenko's site.

You mean Burtsev works for Sukhoi?

OminousSpudd wrote:How many aircraft are now in testing? Last I heard there were to be 12 pre-series production aircraft by the end of 2015... Any news regarding how many of these have been completed?

That is pretty easy to find out by yourself tbh. But anyway, there were 5 flying prototypes made and the latest of those, T-50-5 had a fire last summer but will fly again any day now. It will be then called T-50-5R and it cannibalized T-50-6 which is now cancelled. Next flying prototype is T-50-6-2 and current plans put the first flight in September.

Otherwise there are two static testing frames where the latest one, T-50-7 (formerly known as T-50-6-1), was delivered in January. Then there is T-50-KNS which isn't a static frame but not a flying either. So 8 in total so far if we include T-50-5R.

Not sure what the news entailed with the 12 pre-series aircraft, but probably it 12 flying prototypes in mind. They are far behind on that.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

Berkut wrote:... the picture above is stolen from this one;

I got that picture from Karpenko's site.

You mean Burtsev works for Sukhoi?

No, it is obvious Karpenko stole it and edited away the rp.net bar on the bottom. Or he stole it from someone who stole it, doesn't matter.

magnumcromagnon wrote:
That's interesting, I wonder how they managed that? My guess would be that they can track a small RCS fighter with the L-Band and X-Band AESA elements in the 'Smart Skin' suite, then the Himalaya's ECM suite fires a strong electromagnetic pulse in the general direction, that's powerful enough to make a F-22A Raptor's APG-77 AESA radar perform erratically, unpredictably, and emit radar emissions uncontrollably...thus negating the stealth advantage when the radar is experiencing explosive diarrhea!

What's even crazier is that by 2020, we may see a brand new photonic based ECM suite for the PAK-FA that's orders of magnitude more powerful then the Himalaya's ECM suite!

Lol, all of you do realize that the EW, ECM, and Radar is all going to be integrated?

Thats what they mean that the EW suite will detect and "negate" the stealth advantage of other aircraft, by detecting.

2SPOOKY4U wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:
That's interesting, I wonder how they managed that? My guess would be that they can track a small RCS fighter with the L-Band and X-Band AESA elements in the 'Smart Skin' suite, then the Himalaya's ECM suite fires a strong electromagnetic pulse in the general direction, that's powerful enough to make a F-22A Raptor's APG-77 AESA radar perform erratically, unpredictably, and emit radar emissions uncontrollably...thus negating the stealth advantage when the radar is experiencing explosive diarrhea!

What's even crazier is that by 2020, we may see a brand new photonic based ECM suite for the PAK-FA that's orders of magnitude more powerful then the Himalaya's ECM suite!

Lol, all of you do realize that the EW, ECM, and Radar is all going to be integrated?

Thats what they mean that the EW suite will detect and "negate" the stealth advantage of other aircraft, by detecting.

Re-read my post...It's clearly stated that they will be working to together.