PapaDragon wrote: sepheronx wrote: Flagship Victory wrote:........................................
If I were a Russian citizen, I'd organize a demonstration outside the Kremlin, asking Putin to provide military aid to Donbas, not regular soldiers, but arms. As Churchill once said, we have the men, just give us the arms and we'll do the job. By arms I mean good armor piercing bullets, artillery, Kornet and Metis M anti tank missiles, counter artillery radars would be enough, don't need jets, helicopters, tanks.
I agree with you.
I think Russians have become far too lazy and complacent. The media here wishes ill upon Russians. Many people view Russians should be killed. And to top it all off, in Ukraine, they actually kill and threaten Russians on a day to day basis, and or people who they deem Russian. USA and Canadian government has allowed this to happen and has even encouraged it. So why are Russians willing to step back and let this happen to their ethnic brothers/sisters? I imagine that eventually, after the eastern people are snuffed off, it will be Russians in their own territory next. Do these people really want a full on war within their own territory before they will actually act? It would be in their best interests if they were open about training and arming rebels in eastern Ukraine, and started to help others who wanted to fight against Kiev (which is something that does exist currently). Sitting around will just have more people grow disdain for them.
I disagree with you here.
Russia does not owe Eastern Ukraine anything.
Russia's first and only priority is safety and wellbeing of 150 million Russian citizens, not some submissive, docile and subservient self-hating malcontents over the border who still haven't decided what they are or wish to be.
If "Russians" in Ukraine feel so threatened and endangered then maybe they should do something about it? Crimeans did so. Donbass on the other hand kept waiting to see which way the wing will blow. And when they did notice that they are about to get erased they decided to protest, write petitions and waste time with some non-violent BS.
If it weren't for several individuals with half a brain and full set of balls they all would have been jumping maidan-style for more than a year now.
And how do we even know that sheep in Kharkov, Odessa and other places even want to be saved from Kiev? In all this time we only seen some token acts of resistance. There were no resistance fighters attacking Nazis, no bomb strikes on UAF no assassinations of Kiev gang leaders, nothing.... perfectly docile serfs.
When maidan started East Ukraine should have started their own movement instantly. When nazis started the coup they should have fought back and declared independence immediately. If you don't like something you should do something about it, not just bend over and take it.
Russia is already doing lot more than they need to. Russia's first priority should be Russia. Everything else is not just secondary, it's completely irrelevant. Wars are fought with money. Money is foundation of civilization, it is weapon that wins all wars, it is only thing that matters in the end.
What Russia is doing now is fighting war on it's own terms, with money and media, and if you look at current situation you will notice that Russia is doing pretty amazing job.
Openly using military in Ukraine is exactly what Brussels, Washington, London, Warsaw and Kiev expected them to do, what they hoped they would do and it was something that they were ready for in order to bury and get rid of Russia once and for all.
They were not ready for what Russia is doing now and that is why they are losing their sh*t.Only moron fight on enemy's terms. A lesson USSR learned the hard way during Cold War. And now you suggest Russia should make same mistake Sovs did?
Again, RF owes absolutely nothing to Ukrainians and "Russians" in Ukraine. It's actually other way around.
My views exactly. Except on the Donbass, where the people did rise up in the end and its important for Russia not to abandon them.
As for the rest, they seem perfectly fine with the situation - so why disturb them?
Some people here have mentioned that they are Russians. Ethnically or not - no, they are not Russians.
We have seen how Russians react in the Crimea and Sevastopol. That's how Russians should react, to an ethno-nationalist regime that attempts to repress them on their very own land.
The reaction would have been the same for any actual Russian city in Russia. How do you think common people would react, to Ukrainian Nazis stalking the streets of Moscow, St. Petersburg, Orenburg, Ulyanovsk, etc... do you think that they will tolerated?
Do you think that people would say 'what Nazis?'.
Or 'it's all Putler's fault!'
Or 'we just want to get on with our lives, we're working people'
No - the Nazis will be kicked to death on the street in any Russian city in a matter of hours of them arriving. I doubt the authorities would even be able to stop them being mobbed and lynched.
In Odessa, Nikolayev, Zaporozhia, Kherson, etc... that doesn't happen. The Nazis rule the night. And they rule the day. No-one does anything against them. So, one can only assume, that people there are quite content to live with them, really.
In occupied areas of the Donbass, people's discontent with them is very real and visible; yet still they do nothing. The Donbass wouldn't have been able to even keep half itself out of Ukrainian hands, without extensive Russian assistance. Even there - the people are not really bothered.
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