The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

I find it odd that the NAF guy says he does not know which side Russia supports. This sounds like their arms come from private donations or bought from Russian soldiers rather than given by Russia.

Flagship Victory wrote:I find it odd that the NAF guy says he does not know which side Russia supports. This sounds like their arms come from private donations or bought from Russian soldiers rather than given by Russia.

What he said was extremely vague to say the least. I don't doubt that the Russian government supports the rebels, but of course other organizations or even individual people could be helping as well. 

But hey! This video is proof of the Russian invasion! 

Mike E wrote:But hey! This video is proof of the Russian invasion! 

If that is proof of Russian invasion, then surely ISIS is Saudi Arabian invasion considering many ISIS fighters are from Saudi Arabia.

Flagship Victory wrote:

Mike E wrote:But hey! This video is proof of the Russian invasion! 

If that is proof of Russian invasion, then surely ISIS is Saudi Arabian invasion considering many ISIS fighters are from Saudi Arabia.

Except that plenty of the oil barons actually do fund ISIS and Al-Qaida and there is growing evidence that the Royal family does as well. ISIS is a political tool used by the Saudis used to help their influence globally. ISIS is in Iraq/Syria and Yemen to cripple the Shia Iranis.

Russia is using Novorossiya as their proxies to defend their interests and more importantly their own country. Don't expect Novorossiya to go on crusades to restore Russian lands like the Saudis are using ISIS.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:Russia is using Novorossiya as their proxies to defend their interests and more importantly their own country. Don't expect Novorossiya to go on crusades to restore Russian lands like the Saudis are using ISIS.

And how long will this go on in Donbas? Decades? Centuries? Every Minsk meeting ends in nothing at all. Minsk agreement is not even implemented.

Flagship Victory wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:Russia is using Novorossiya as their proxies to defend their interests and more importantly their own country. Don't expect Novorossiya to go on crusades to restore Russian lands like the Saudis are using ISIS.

And how long will this go on in Donbas? Decades? Centuries? Every Minsk meeting ends in nothing at all. Minsk agreement is not even implemented.

Shhhh, just go back to posting news.


No need to have a repeat of before.

Maidan says restoring some really old tanks. I don't think Maidan restored anything. If Maidan got some tanks, they must be T-72s from Hungary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7uGRwC-Qhc


Ukraine's president Yanukovych says he did not order police to shoot at Right Sector criminals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Nbp8N3Kq8


Tribute to NAF, defenders of Russia and Putin's wallet

Flagship Victory wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:Russia is using Novorossiya as their proxies to defend their interests and more importantly their own country. Don't expect Novorossiya to go on crusades to restore Russian lands like the Saudis are using ISIS.

And how long will this go on in Donbas? Decades? Centuries? Every Minsk meeting ends in nothing at all. Minsk agreement is not even implemented.

Until the inevitable collapse of Ukraine. Now go back to posting news as Spooky told you to.

The only reason I have not blocked you is because you post interesting articles/videos.

JohninMK wrote:It looks like Ukrainian ways of running petrol stations are not going to pass muster under the Russian regime.

Crimean Prosecutor General Natalia Poklonskaya said on Tuesday that a whole array of violations, including documentation problems and poor quality gasoline, have been seen at gas filling stations in Crimea.

Speaking at a Crimean government session, Poklonskaya said 33 cases to investigate administrative offenses have been opened, as well as 33 cases into legislative violations and 20 applications made to correct legal violations. "More materials are being prepared to launch administrative proceedings over poor quality gasoline, poor quality fuel… A criminal case has been opened after the prosecutor's check pertaining to illegal processing of gas condensate and production of low quality gasoline, which caused more than 1.5 million rubles in damages," Poklonskaya said.

According to her, almost every gas station in Crimea has fallen short of the required legal requirements. In particular, the violations include the sale of fuel using measurement tools that have not been tested, the lack of quality certification and information on the brands of fuel sold, as well as low quality gasoline that does not meet the standards required by Russian law.

sputniknews.com/russia/20150623/1023744366.html#ixzz3dvUq8aQq

Most of the petrol stations are rebranded Uke companies. The problems are nothing new but if our little girl is looking, there is going to be some unhappy people in the next couple of weeks.

A lot of the stations did close at first including our two on north side, but the larger station was only closed for two days. However, they did open under 'new' management but pulling the same old trick in that they always short you on what you paid for. In our case we only purchase petrol in 1000 rublay amounts, IOW when the little Kamazik is down to half a tank, 1000 rublay fills it up. Always it is 50 kopyeki short, which is one cent. I'm a pretty unusual old man. If you need help, tell me and I will arrange help for you, but if you try to steal a penny from me I'll nail you to a cross. The workers always blame the shortage on 'the computer' and hardly anyone is going to argue of one cent. I do, because if they'll steal a penny they'll steal a million bucks. I record the number of the thousand rublay note when I pay and snap a photo of the delivery amount when finished. I then go in and tell them to give me the 50 kopyeki. I only have to do that once for each new clark they get, then magically after that my deliveries are accurate.

Now, to extrapolate what one cent shortage is for each car. This station is open 24/7 and is always busy. Say one car every two minutes to be conservative gives a figure of roughly 7 dollars a day of theft. 7 times 365 is $2550.00. This same man owns both stations in Inkerman, the stations being more busy than ours by far as Inkerman is a main node in vehicles coming from Simferopol and points west and north. Understating the thefts from these two stations at the same amounts as our local station gives a minimum theft of $7665.00. This same man owns 25 or so stations just in the Simferopol/Sevastopol areas, all on main roads and busy, so he is stealing minimum $63750.00 a year. I can live on that. He's going to get an unhappy day or two because he is stealing minimum $12750.00 in taxes to The State.

I can also tell when I do not get 95 Premium at the station. We drive a 10 year old A Klasse 170 with 60k kilometers on it now. It has this wondrous little device in it that records every meter you drive as opposed to the petrol the little beast uses. Normally it will show roughly 7 liters per 100 kilometers of travel. Below grade petrol immediately bumps the petrol consumption up to 8 liters per 100 k. The computer running the power system keeps the little stinker running fine with no power loss at all but it does show undoubtedly that I did not get the grade of petrol I paid for. The difference in price between 'regular' 95 and 'premium' 95 is about 4 rublay per liter. You can run the numbers on that and as to how much more our sainted station owner is stealing per year.

While the local corruption is nowhere near as bad now as it was under the Ukes it is still there in vast amounts.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Thank you for your posts John in mk

Samantha Power blatantly lying to Congress not just about one thing about Ukraine but about two things, and Californian senator ROHRABACHER called her on it. The scum we have in office.  

Ukrainian Crisis Discussed by senator

Ukrainian Crisis Discussed by Californian senator ROHRABACHER

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4541393/ukrainian-crisis-discussed-senator

I thought there is no hope among American politicians, with the exception of Ron Paul. Good to see other senators seeing the bullshit that is pouring out of Powers' mouth.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Thank you for your posts John in mk

Samantha Power blatantly lying to Congress not just about one thing about Ukraine but about two things, and Californian senator ROHRABACHER called her on it. The scum we have in office.  

Ukrainian Crisis Discussed by senator

Ukrainian Crisis Discussed by Californian senator ROHRABACHER

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4541393/ukrainian-crisis-discussed-senator

I've seen some of this exchange before, or maybe it was a different one between these two, I'm not certain.

It's so strange that Rohrbacher is one of the very few within the US government who is on the right side of this issue. On most any other, my views and his are completely opposite. Pat Buchanan is another one like that, though he no longer serves at any post, obviously.

And that Powers... just wow. She's a real, actual, evil witch. There's a veritable coven of such under Obama. It's fascinating how she lies and obfuscates with such ease and lack of conscience. Good on Rohrbacher for not letting her off easy, though.

Flagship Victory wrote:I find it odd that the NAF guy says he does not know which side Russia supports. This sounds like their arms come from private donations or bought from Russian soldiers rather than given by Russia.

Russia is on the side of.. Ending the war ,and that both sides stop fighting and that
a political solution is found for the conflict.  like a strong autonomy.   Russia is on the
side of ending the repression and violence in all Ukraine against ethnic Russians..
not just Donetsk and lugansk. and this is what not many see..  

And why will Russia want that?  
Because the conflict Will never end Never as long United States exist..
they have an enormous economy and can continue forever fueling the conflict ,sending mercenaries for all the world to Ukraine to help them fight Pro Russian Separatist. Is a proxy war what happens in ukraine.. with Americans and its rusophobic allies like Poland and Lithuane fighting Russia to the last Ukraine
blood.  So either to end the war Russia start world war 3 and nuke america..and totally destroy
them.. or they try to freeze the conflict and make Ukraine and its Major sponsors to pay a heavy
price on its economy to continue the war..and Poroshenko risk not only losing DOnetsk and Lugansk but losing the control of entire nation.and provoke a major Anti-Maidan revolution in Ukraine..of people disappointed with pro West Factions.. Allowing a more pro Russian faction to take power in kiev.

So which way is better? i think the freeze of the conflict is less bad..less worse.. than World war 3 .with nuclear weapons and millions americans killed and possibly Russian too.. consequence
of US Interference to a peaceful settlement in Ukraine. Is also better than a Russian Army invasion that will make it easier for Americans to damage Putin image and popularity and create
unrest in RUssia cities,not mentioning the huge impact in Russia economy if Russia invade with 100,000 soldiers. neither mentioning the Russian pipelines of Gas that reach Europe through Ukraine will be shut down by kiev.

As a bonus by allowing Ukraine to freeze the conflict ,neither allow them to win..neither to Lose.. Russia have the possibility of dividing Europe ,because they need to finance Ukraine.. and this will weaken NATO.. something that is positive for Russia.  

Ideally it will be nicer if Russia can just declare war against USA.. do preventive nuclear strikes
in a thousand of military places that US and NATO have. with only military killed and also sink all US warships with nuclear weapons capabilities and submarines in a massive first strike... but Russia do not have such capabilities yet to do a surprise attack in such magnitude ,before they
can fight back.   So solving things with diplomacy is better option. even if few hundreds civilians die over a year.. as cruel that sound..in practice is better than millions being killed with a world war 3..that no body will win..

But no worries.. the Ukraine war will not last forever.. Time is not on the side of Ukraine and Poroshenko.. their economy sinks while the war continues.. and Poroshenko will not last another year in power if continue opposing the Full Autonomy of Donetsk and Lugansk ,which is the major game changing thing. that legitimaze the Rebels and their right for providing security to their cities.. so no longer Kiev will have an excuse to Bomb them.. IF by the end of year Poroshenko continue with the war ,refusing to implement minsk and bombing civilians. his head
will roll , either overthrow like Gadaffi or killed by their own European Friends really tired of them. but before that happens .The right sectors Heads will roll too.. its major Leaders and all other NeoNazi parties too.. and the voluntary factions fighting in eastern ukraine killed. with
the oligarchs financing them arrested.it will be impossible for Americans to maintain Poroshenko
in Power for another year if Ukraine economy collapse. and continues with the war. So is a time
thing. If Russia maintain is neutral stance ,with minimal help and freezing the conflict ,they will effectively take control back of Ukraine to at least Yakunovych times ,that there was a neutral government in power ,that at very least respected the lives of civilians and rights of all minorities.

All said Ukraine have only 2 possible futures..
1)One with Poroshenko/and neonazis leaders killed and the entire nation disbanded with many independent new countries . absolute defeat for americans and Sanctions lifted on Russia. Europeans moving closer to Russia.
2)Or one with Poroshenko in power with full autonomy for Donetsk and Lugansk and end of the war..with a De-nazification of Ukraine.. and americans Euromaidan revolution and partial defeat. with the only benefit of Americans to keep current sanctions of Russia forever. and keep their excuse of the militarization on eastern europe.. "until Russia return Crimea".

from American point of view..#2 option is the best one for them.. why kerry visit Sochi to talk
with Putin and lavrov.supporting MInsk-2.

So the whole EuroMaidan revolution is a major failure for US.and they can only choose how big
the failure will be.. the only way Americans could have won in Ukraine.. is if Russian ARmy invades in full scale and try to take control of kiev and all ukraine with tanks. That will have not
only destroyed Russia economy.. and quality of lives of all Russians..but created a anti-Putin Maidan in moscu. with major unrest in cities.. defeating Putin or Medvedev in next elections. Allowing the 5th column in Russia to get in power.

Whatever it happens im 100% confident the future of Ukraine sucks big time.. it will cease to exist as a nation in a decade regardless if Poroshenko give autonomy to the Rebels. and things will only improve for Ukrainians ,when the vast majority open their eyes and see the games
being played against them.. ie.. US and Rusophobic European nations using Ukraine as a tool
to fight Russia..at the expense of their own future.

I was visiting a few other forums (which I will not link or even mention per the rules, also because many of them were trash anyway) and a lot of them come to the conclusion that many "T-72B3's" in Ukraine were...not actually B3's. Some of them were indeed "legit" but many were not, and that makes me ask if Russia is even supplying the East with considerable amounts of weapons in the first place.

Mike E wrote:I was visiting a few other forums (which I will not link or even mention per the rules, also because many of them were trash anyway) and a lot of them come to the conclusion that many "T-72B3's" in Ukraine were...not actually B3's. Some of them were indeed "legit" but many were not, and that makes me ask if Russia is even supplying the East with considerable amounts of weapons in the first place.

Probably some support, but not at considerable level. Moskva does not want to be labelled as an "invader".

Instead, Russia lets Kyiv exposes itself. As time passes, the corrupted, facist and criminal nature of Maidan is gradually exposed. Maidan will finally killed itself.

Mike E wrote:I was visiting a few other forums (which I will not link or even mention per the rules, also because many of them were trash anyway) and a lot of them come to the conclusion that many "T-72B3's" in Ukraine were...not actually B3's. Some of them were indeed "legit" but many were not, and that makes me ask if Russia is even supplying the East with considerable amounts of weapons in the first place.

That would make a lot of sense. It seems there is only one pretty much confirmed destroyed T-72B3 so far (that's sketchy at best). Speculation that a few were used to seal off Debaltsevo would also make sense. But no, I highly doubt there are hefty numbers of them at all. Mostly reconditioned T-64s and T-72Bs from surrounding depots etc. with a few from across the way. Also the L/DPR did capture a massive amount of equipment in that cauldron.

"I have seen all sorts of odd weapons in use... if they were properly supplied with weapons I doubt they would bother to scavange PTRD-41s from museums and other odd weapons..."

When Strelkov's boys captured a quite large weapons storage facility near Slavyansk in the early days last year the treasure trove stored there and at a nearby underground facility was amazing. That is where the PTRD-41's came from, that is where the SKS's came from that still arm some of the blockpost troops who are far from the front line and that is where the PPShaa's came from that you saw in some of the combat footage around Slavyansk-Kramatorsk. It's all they had at the time, but in the PTRD case they quickly found that the antique would fire a round that would go through anything but an MBT and laugh the whole way and can penetrate an MBT from the rear if you know where to hit it, and I'm sure our boys know exactly what to shoot for.

Aged weapons, obsolete by modern standards, can still be quite useful, even a T34-76 will kill you just as dead as an Armata.

GarryB wrote:
For causing so much pain and suffering... Putin is not responsible for the actions of the Ukrainian government... how about all pro Russians move to Russia and Russia seal the border and let ukrainians continue to kill ukrainians they way they clearly want to.

I think Kiev would love that. It would just about guarantee a NATO base on Russia's doorstep.

auslander wrote:"I have seen all sorts of odd weapons in use... if they were properly supplied with weapons I doubt they would bother to scavange PTRD-41s from museums and other odd weapons..."

When Strelkov's boys captured a quite large weapons storage facility near Slavyansk in the early days last year the treasure trove stored there and at a nearby underground facility was amazing. That is where the PTRD-41's came from, that is where the SKS's came from that still arm some of the blockpost troops who are far from the front line and that is where the PPShaa's came from that you saw in some of the combat footage around Slavyansk-Kramatorsk. It's all they had at the time, but in the PTRD case they quickly found that the antique would fire a round that would go through anything but an MBT and laugh the whole way and can penetrate an MBT from the rear if you know where to hit it, and I'm sure our boys know exactly what to shoot for.

Aged weapons, obsolete by modern standards, can still be quite useful, even a T34-76 will kill you just as dead as an Armata.

When pro-Russia protesters stormed a police station in Slavyansk, in eastern Ukraine, they seized several hundred firearms. They also took control of the biggest weapons cache in eastern Europe, which lies beneath their feet.

Since March a group of protesters have been guarding the entrance to the Volodarsky salt mine, which holds an underground collection of at least a million firearms ranging from first world war heavy machine guns to Soviet-era Kalashnikovs.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/protesters-ukraine-weapons-cache-mine[/quote]

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Thank you for your posts John in mk

Samantha Power blatantly lying to Congress not just about one thing about Ukraine but about two things, and Californian senator ROHRABACHER called her on it. The scum we have in office.  

Ukrainian Crisis Discussed by senator

Ukrainian Crisis Discussed by Californian senator ROHRABACHER

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4541393/ukrainian-crisis-discussed-senator

It is good to see there are attentive people with courage and integrity out there, such as Senator Rohrbacher in this case, who refuse to close their eyes and have an actual attention span longer than a week.

Samantha Power is a carbon copy of Jen Psaki...when called on their ludicrous assertions and outright falsehoods, their performance turns into a stammerfest with attempts to bring up other stuff unrelated to the questions being asked as a diversion.
Cringeworthy amateur hour.

Scene of the ammunition truck explosion at Poltava.

Is there a thread on here about the trouble in armenia? Ive searched but nothing came up, i expected it to be big news, some idiots trying to start another maidan on russias border is pretty important.

Gonna be interesting to see if any snipers turn up there too.

^ You would need to create one. Situation will rumble on but I doubt anything very serious will come from this trolling by America as there is no great reason for Armenians to be Russophobic. Of course some problems could be created....
Live stream from Yerevan

OminousSpudd wrote:

Mike E wrote:I was visiting a few other forums (which I will not link or even mention per the rules, also because many of them were trash anyway) and a lot of them come to the conclusion that many "T-72B3's" in Ukraine were...not actually B3's. Some of them were indeed "legit" but many were not, and that makes me ask if Russia is even supplying the East with considerable amounts of weapons in the first place.

That would make a lot of sense. It seems there is only one pretty much confirmed destroyed T-72B3 so far (that's sketchy at best). Speculation that a few were used to seal off Debaltsevo would also make sense. But no, I highly doubt there are hefty numbers of them at all. Mostly reconditioned T-64s and T-72Bs from surrounding depots etc. with a few from across the way. Also the L/DPR did capture a massive amount of equipment in that cauldron.

Agreed to the fullest extent. 

Many "B3's" turned out to be Ukrainian modifications of T-64's and T-72's (mostly having to do with the sights and their design, because that's used as "proof" of the B3's being in Ukr territory). 

Kind of funny though...western media sources mistaken one tank for a whole different model of another. Big surprise...and they claim Russian media is the inaccurate one.

Rodinazombie wrote:Is there a thread on here about the trouble in armenia? Ive searched but nothing came up, i expected it to be big news, some idiots trying to start another maidan on russias border is pretty important.

Gonna be interesting to see if any snipers turn up there too.

It's more of a domestic problem; Armenia has long had economic troubles.
Kiev's media is trying to paint it as a Maidan but in reality that sort of thing has little to do with it.

Maybe some people will try and bring big power politics into it, advocate EU entry, etc... but I don't think it would fly.

If the current Armenian government is not careful though it can end up with some riots and so on though.