The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

[quote="whir"]

ВЕСТИ.RU wrote:Supporters of "euromaidan" flee to Russia
In western Ukraine, which has traditionally supported the idea of "euromaidan" policy of the Kiev authorities in recent years is causing more frustration. Those who have a half years ago took part in protests in Kiev and fought for the change of power, leave the country and seek political asylum in Russia.

Well well well well well

Colour me shocked. The revolution is eating its own sons.

Neutrality wrote:Forgive me but I still don't get the raccoon reference. Please explain Khepesh?

He's a raccoon.

Come on this thing has been around for ages now.

Neutrality wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Flagship Haushofer will blow a gasket.

Putin: No More Gas Discounts for Ukraine Under Current Oil Prices

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150624/1023786997.html

"Moscow can no longer give Ukraine gas discounts due to the current drop in oil prices", Russian President Vladimir Putin said Tuesday. The price must be on level of other countries like Poland, he added.

DETAILS TO FOLLOW

Good move. Now Russia actually has a very good excuse. Not that they didn't have it before.

Russia doesn't need an excuse to stop selling its own products to a foreign country at a discount. Don't know why Putin is even mentioning any of this; he should just drop the discount - no explanations offered nor needed.

flamming_python wrote:

whir wrote:

ВЕСТИ.RU wrote:Supporters of "euromaidan" flee to Russia
In western Ukraine, which has traditionally supported the idea of "euromaidan" policy of the Kiev authorities in recent years is causing more frustration. Those who have a half years ago took part in protests in Kiev and fought for the change of power, leave the country and seek political asylum in Russia.

Well well well well well  

Colour me shocked. The revolution is eating its own sons.

Russia can sit this one out.

It was clear by late 2014 that there was no point for Russia to intervene directly. The Novorussian forces held off the aggressors
and Banderastan was in the process of sliding into the toilet. By invading, Russia would get all the blame for everything including the
economic collapse. So let them eat cake and each other.

Neutrality wrote:Forgive me but I still don't get the raccoon reference. Please explain Khepesh?

Complicated anti $ and American democracy joke about the value of dead raccoons. It's now taken on a life of it's own beyond the original joke http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%82

Khepesh wrote:

Neutrality wrote:Forgive me but I still don't get the raccoon reference. Please explain Khepesh?

Complicated anti $ and American democracy joke about the value of dead raccoons. It's now taken on a life of it's own beyond the original joke http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%82

Jesus, after reading that I still don't quite grasp it. One of the most complicated and illogical symbolisms yet.

Back to news. I like this statement by Zakharchenko today.

I believe in Novorossiya, I believe it will exist. I even know that it is most likely that it will be created very quickly. Opponents and enemies do not expect it to happen quickly, but it will happen anyway. Soon we will see

Zakharchenko said this in the context that while DNR and LNR first have to join, Novorossiya will be more than that. Now, he trolls ukrops at times with various statements, but I think here we can believe what he says, I do.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-24/historic-shift-russia-overtakes-saudi-arabia-chinas-number-one-oil-supplier

In Historic Shift, Russia Overtakes Saudi Arabia As China's Number One Oil Supplier

And while the recent drawdown in oil exporters’ petrodollar reserves suggests Saudi Arabia’s actions were sufficient in and of themselves to catalyze the system’s demise, the US has accelerated the process by backing economic sanctions on Russia which, starting this year, began to settle oil and natural gas exports to China in yuan, marking what we have hailed as the the intersection of two critically important themes that have far-reaching geopolitical and economic consequences: 1) the death of petrodollar mercantilism, and 2) the idea of yuan hegemony.

In “The PetroYuan Is Born: Gazprom Now Settling All Crude Sales To China In Renminbi”, we argued that as economic ties between China and Russia deepen (thanks to billions in currency swap lines and the construction of the new Western gas line which will deliver an additional 30bcm/y to China on top of the 38bcm/y which will flow through the “Power of Siberia” line once operational) Beijing could increasingly look to Moscow to meet China’s energy needs. This would of course only serve to further de-dollarize the global energy trade, dealing yet another blow to the petrodollar system. Sure enough, Russia has, for the first time in history, overtaken Saudi Arabia as China’s top oil supplier

So the Russian energy sector is making headway in getting around the effect of Western sanctions.

1 man killed and his wife wounded after Ukrainian army shelled Sahanka, Novoazovsk District. Local authorities repeatedly stated there are only civilians in the vicinity of the village.

http://dan-news.info/defence/v-rezultate-obstrela-saxanki-pogib-mirnyj-zhitel-mestnaya-administraciya.html

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-24/historic-shift-russia-overtakes-saudi-arabia-chinas-number-one-oil-supplier

In Historic Shift, Russia Overtakes Saudi Arabia As China's Number One Oil Supplier

1) the death of petrodollar mercantilism, and 2) the idea of yuan hegemony.

In “The PetroYuan is Born: Gazprom Now Settling All Crude Sales To China In Renminbi”

Not the goal here, both parties know this.

Khepesh wrote:

Neutrality wrote:Forgive me but I still don't get the raccoon reference. Please explain Khepesh?

Complicated anti $ and American democracy joke about the value of dead raccoons. It's now taken on a life of it's own beyond the original joke http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%82

If made into a Davey Crockett hat, about $150 retail.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

HeNeArKrXeRn_ wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Thank you for your posts John in mk

Samantha Power blatantly lying to Congress not just about one thing about Ukraine but about two things, and Californian senator ROHRABACHER called her on it. The scum we have in office.  

Ukrainian Crisis Discussed by senator

Ukrainian Crisis Discussed by Californian senator ROHRABACHER

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4541393/ukrainian-crisis-discussed-senator

wow, didn't expect that. Thanks for sharing.
can anyone fill me in on what exactly is this hearing and how important is it? I'm not too familiar with the structure of the US gov. beyond what I saw on House of Cards...

btw, CD, are you by any chance a listener of Dan Carlin's Podcast? I think you might like his way of approaching this (and probably many other subjects).

No, I've never listened to him at all. I can find him on the internet???

Maybe someone else filled you in on exactly what the hearing is and how important it is. IDK. I'll have to think about it, if no one else did.

I think it's pretty awesome tho, that she's caught on video lying to Congress.

I suggest everyone to check out Dan Calrin's Podcast.

On the subject of Ukraine, here are the episodes he made:
Show 270 Poking the Bear -

Show 271 Cashing the Doomsday Check - https://youtu.be/Z3WT_378Fsg
Show 272 Vlad and Dianne - https://youtu.be/FqG_YNuJzq0
Show 280 In Search of Context - https://youtu.be/OvGOmxU3b0Q
Show 288 Re-heating the Cold War - https://youtu.be/MW7z7oHMZ6w

you can also find them on his official website: http://www.dancarlin.com/
If you like history, especially the military side of it, I strongly suggest checking out his other series called Hardcore History.
In the context of the Ukraine Crisis, you'll probably like the way he describes the American change of course from an isolationist to an interventionist power during WW1 in this episode

Khepesh wrote:Back to news. I like this statement by Zakharchenko today.

I believe in Novorossiya, I believe it will exist. I even know that it is most likely that it will be created very quickly. Opponents and enemies do not expect it to happen quickly, but it will happen anyway. Soon we will see

Zakharchenko said this in the context that while DNR and LNR first have to join, Novorossiya will be more than that. Now, he trolls ukrops at times with various statements, but I think here we can believe what he says, I do.

I don't.

Even Donetsk's/Lugansk's next-door neighbours (with partial exception of Kharkov) are chanting 'death to Moskals!'

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Back to news. I like this statement by Zakharchenko today.

I believe in Novorossiya, I believe it will exist. I even know that it is most likely that it will be created very quickly. Opponents and enemies do not expect it to happen quickly, but it will happen anyway. Soon we will see

Zakharchenko said this in the context that while DNR and LNR first have to join, Novorossiya will be more than that. Now, he trolls ukrops at times with various statements, but I think here we can believe what he says, I do.

I don't.

Even Donetsk's/Lugansk's next-door neighbours (with partial exception of Kharkov) are chanting 'death to Moskals!'

This is the central point why Russia should not invade Ukraine. There is nothing to save. They need to learn how to live
in the cesspool all on their own. They can keep on hating Russia and Russians as they adapt to their new life. I am very
much against any sort of help for these congenital idiots. Russia has blown $300 billion in welfare of one sort or another for
then since the 1990s. Instead of gratitude it got a generation of genocidal hater imbeciles to blame Russia for everything
including their VD. Let Washington feed them.

On a side note... i noticed in one video uploaded several pages ago..
a so called documentary ,that tried to humanize the Ukie army.. genocide..
showing how lovely they are with their families.. completely ignoring the warcrimes
they commit every day.. in Donetsk and Lugansk.. and it seems one of the main
stunts on the documentary aside of trying to look "objective" and "showing" both sides
of the story. (but ignoring the genocide on civilians by kiev). It appears they re-used
a civilian Actor mature women in the 50's ,that was also used in a VICE documentary under
a totally different script.  Basically she was complaining why the Rebels go and fight in their
villages the ukie army ,so later the Ukrainian artillery fall on their homes..

What she do not mention/neither the documentary.. is that the pro Kiev forces shell Deep inside
DOnetsk and lugansk beyond the combat zone.. forcing the Rebels to go on the offensive in the
contact line and push the CIAnazis farther away of their zones. In other words.. there is no other way for Rebels to fight if not by land pushing from their original positions towards the enemy positions ..and in some cases ,this travel can only happen entering civilian zones.. and in no other way.  

So the complain to OSCE..in a theatrical acting..of her is why they Rebels move to their villages to fight kiev forces and not go to another place.. (instead of complaining to OSCE about the people that are directly responsible for killing them. .)   Which is a completely back ass logic.. The Rebels are trying to kill the forces that kills them..indiscriminately not only in places
where they at times needs to move.. but most times in places they never have been.. ie hospitals.. schools and deep inside DOnetsk and Lugansk.

So i warn people about massive new campaign by US and NEOCONs to blame the rebels for the
casualties of civilians.. and not the people who drop the bombs.    and what appears to be
new hired ACTORS... to demonize not only Rebels but RUssia. Claiming the Rebels enter their houses and steal their money.. imagine that.. but no Single mention in VICE of how pro Kiev forces bomb their villages.

So i perceive a new propaganda campaign using civilians ACTORS operating in Rebels controlled zones...that..
1)Completely Ignores Ukrainian bombing on civilians cities and positions of only civilians
are located and nothing else..every single day.
2)COmpletely ignores Ukrainian bombing of Hospitals ,Schools ,Water plants ,Electricity plants to destroy Donetsk economy and create a major humanitarian disaster.
3)And that is now blaming the Rebels for the civilians casualties..  instead of blaming
the people committing the crime:roll:

If the ukrainian army enters a village ..anywhere under zones controlled by Rebels..
How are they supposed to kick them out without entering the village?  

This are question ,that 99.8% of the people who watch VICE or any other western documentary
will not ask.. when observing such documentaries.. of "independent media" reports.

It will be similar as if terrorist enter your town to kill civilians women and children.. and police
enter theres to kick them OUT of the place.. but people instead of complaining against the terrorist.. go an complain in cameras.. about "why the police do not go to another place and do
the fighting away of their residences. " ?  Is this moronic logic?  Indeed it is.. And this is being
part of western new information war.. in not only miminizing as "Exageration" and "collateral damage" the killing of civilians.  But also at even blaming the Rebels .  
for (indirectly causing) the killing of civilians by kiev ,in the zones they are supposed to defend.


What will be next claim of such new civilians hired actors?
That no civilians will have been killed had the Rebels stopped fighting and gave up their weapons? and this argument is one that trolls usually brings to the table when defending
kiev.. image that..  explain that to odessans.. who were burned alive and carried no weapons,, they will have a big laugh about this ridiculous suggestion of giving up your arms
at a government that no only wants to kill anyone who oppose them.. but also that have openly
spoken and made laws ,to create concentration camps for all civilians who complained against
the government and never took weapons but that expressed sympathy for the Rebels.

Western Media new Information war.. are now using ACTORS.. that will cry tears and rage
at OSCE , or at Rebels. with Cameras in the right moment to capture the whole script. I think
i have seen already 3 different reports.. 2 of VICE and one of another media.. of such actors..
that they Re-USE.. so pay close attention to the civilian faces in VICE and other western media reports. The most hillarious propaganda ..was the one of Selie soldiers.. if not mistaken.. that
claimed the Rebels steal their Vodka and ask money..and Russian army being more polite.

PapaDragon wrote:I wonder if this qualifies as Ukrainian economic development?
Maybe we should ask good old Doc P.  for one of his legendary pie-charts?

Russia is swamped with Ukrainian female workforce turning to "the oldest profession" due to crisis

Oldest profession of the "oldest nation"

http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/06/russia-is-swamped-with-ukrainian-female.html

Ukrainian citizens make up half of all prostitutes in Moscow, reported the senior inspector of public order protection of the main directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Moscow, police colonel, Alexander Ivanov:

"Out of 20 people, 8-9 are from Ukraine. Street prostitution has increased by 70-80% compared with residential. The situation is similar in St. Petersburg. There increased the number of Ukrainian actresses, specializing in the making of "adult films".

According to the director Sergei Pryanishnikov, if earlier, about 70% of actresses were Ukrainians, currently it's at least 90%.

Note that the Ukrainian prostitutes present serious "competition" to all the other prostitutes in Europe. Apparently, this was the goal of Maidan with its promises to establish a visa-free regime with the EU.

High supply = Low prices, you lucky caviar-munchin'  SOBs

We should have STD emoticon...

I hope this can be brought under control. Rampant prostitution in Moscow is a scary throwback to the Yeltsin years. Obviously no where near the same scale... But still a shame.

OminousSpudd wrote:

I hope this can be brought under control. Rampant prostitution in Moscow is a scary throwback to the Yeltsin years. Obviously no where near the same scale... But still a shame.

That's what women often do when they are poor from unemployment, the solution is not make them poor, give them jobs back in Ukraine. Kiev doesn't look like they are really working on that. Moscow could ramp up the casual workforce too as a stop gap, not sure how. Then there is always the chance the problem isn't as bad as the story makes out.

Erk wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

I hope this can be brought under control. Rampant prostitution in Moscow is a scary throwback to the Yeltsin years. Obviously no where near the same scale... But still a shame.

That's what women often do when they are poor from unemployment, the solution is not make them poor, give them jobs back in Ukraine. Kiev doesn't look like they are really working on that. Moscow could ramp up the casual workforce too as a stop gap, not sure how. Then there is always the chance the problem isn't as bad as the story makes out.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I heard that the pimps, mafia and human traffickers usually catch Ukrainian women for prostitution. Is that due to social/economic/politic problems in that country ?

From Papa Dragon:
"And this way there is extra bonus of that awkward silence between Poland and Ukraine..."

Priceless, and how true, how very true.

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Back to news. I like this statement by Zakharchenko today.

I believe in Novorossiya, I believe it will exist. I even know that it is most likely that it will be created very quickly. Opponents and enemies do not expect it to happen quickly, but it will happen anyway. Soon we will see

Zakharchenko said this in the context that while DNR and LNR first have to join, Novorossiya will be more than that. Now, he trolls ukrops at times with various statements, but I think here we can believe what he says, I do.

I don't.

Even Donetsk's/Lugansk's next-door neighbours (with partial exception of Kharkov) are chanting 'death to Moskals!'

Then what you say is that DNR/LNR will be merged or a decades long frozen conflict. I do not see that possibility at all.

kvs wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Back to news. I like this statement by Zakharchenko today.

I believe in Novorossiya, I believe it will exist. I even know that it is most likely that it will be created very quickly. Opponents and enemies do not expect it to happen quickly, but it will happen anyway. Soon we will see

Zakharchenko said this in the context that while DNR and LNR first have to join, Novorossiya will be more than that. Now, he trolls ukrops at times with various statements, but I think here we can believe what he says, I do.

I don't.

Even Donetsk's/Lugansk's next-door neighbours (with partial exception of Kharkov) are chanting 'death to Moskals!'

This is the central point why Russia should not invade Ukraine.   There is nothing to save.  They need to learn how to live
in the cesspool all on their own.    They can keep on hating Russia and Russians as they adapt to their new life.   I am very
much against any sort of help for these congenital idiots.   Russia has blown $300 billion in welfare of one sort or another for
then since the 1990s.   Instead of gratitude it got a generation of genocidal hater imbeciles to blame Russia for everything
including their VD.   Let Washington feed them.  

You make a very broad statement without exclusions. Who are these "congenital idiots"? only banderas, or everybody? Are they "congenital idiots" in Odessa, or even in Donbass. And if Washington ends up feeding them, no matter who "them" are, then Washington will also have it's military bases there.

I refer to this article by Rostislav Ishchenko that is used as a template for a number of posts here and other places as to how the situation should unfold, and it does not include "merging" or letting Americans into Ukraine, but about all Ukraine returning to Russia. What Ishchenko writes can be taken as the "official - unofficial" plan in broad outline. It is against military action to achieve this, but any argument about that aside, the end result would be the same. Welcome home "congenital idiots" will be the cry at some time in the future?, or welcome home brothers who were led astray, and welcome to those who now sit in SBU prisons in Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhia, Kharkov and other cities. http://cont.ws/post/95889

PapaDragon wrote:I wonder if this qualifies as Ukrainian economic development?

Maybe we should ask good old Doc P.  for one of his legendary pie-charts?

High supply = Low prices, you lucky caviar-munchin'  SOBs

We should have STD emoticon...

Prostitutes from Rostov complaining about Ukrainian prostitutes driving down prices it's not a serious long term problem since it could be expected as a consequence of ATO but a surge in street prostitution in Moscow, St. Petersburg and other not bordering cities it's not something to laugh at for the short, medium and long term serious ramifications (organised crime, public health, poverty pockets, etc.).

higurashihougi wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but I heard that the pimps, mafia and human traffickers usually catch Ukrainian women for prostitution. Is that due to social/economic/politic problems in that country ?

While those that do it on their own will mainly do it out of necessity, women that forcefully end up in prostitution rings usually do it because they're extorted and/or deceived into it.

Spain and Italy are the main destinations for Ukrainian women and most of those involved in organised prostitution can be divided in two categories. The first group usually consists of young women (many of them single mothers or with relatives suffering from health conditions) from poor regions looking for prospects to support their families. Human traffickers usually go after them because they can be indebted easily by advancing part of the money they need. Since they can't pay they're forced to accept working into foreign countries but this women rarely fulfil the requirements to enter legally in EU so they're smuggled into it and consequently further indebted. Taking advantage over their illegal status they're forced into street prostitution under threats to their family to prevent they can run away. The second group are usually students that are lured into traveling abroad by their own means for a nonexistent job that usually translates into being secluded into a brothel without outside contact, this group is also a lot more valuable for traffickers because they can make hefty amounts of money in a short period of time prior to being sent back to Ukraine.

Khepesh wrote:I refer to this article by Rostislav Ishchenko that is used as a template for a number of posts here and other places as to how the situation should unfold, and it does not include "merging" or letting Americans into Ukraine, but about all Ukraine returning to Russia. What Ishchenko writes can be taken as the "official - unofficial" plan in broad outline. It is against military action to achieve this, but any argument about that aside, the end result would be the same. Welcome home "congenital idiots" will be the cry at some time in the future?, or welcome home brothers who were led astray, and welcome to those who now sit in SBU prisons in Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhia, Kharkov and other cities. http://cont.ws/post/95889

This is the kind of stuff I love to read. Very clear and to the point. Not that this should be taken as the "official" plan like you say but IMHO it comes very near to the position that Moscow takes. I wonder what lever the author is talking about when he mentions that Washington already developed a plan for a greater war. Transnistria maybe?