The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

franco wrote:More importantly, and I already asked this with no answer, is NAF is getting ready for what comes next?
Ukrops are piling up men and gear. What are NAF doing preparations-wise? They say they want to fight and blame their own patrons for no letting them. Suspect
I do hope it is not just words and that they really are ready because it is going to be a slaughter-fest when it gets serious again.

Is new hardware being delivered? Are troops getting ready? Any new gear?

Training is going on nonstop. Units have been organized into a regular Army and a Reserve Force of 35-40,000 has been recruited,trained and equipped to back up the 35,000 full time Regulars.

Let me remind you that there are plenty of conscripts on the Ukrainian side who were literally forced to serve against their own will. Lots of those new recruits are students. Ukrainians getting new and more gear is cool and all but what use is it to the unexperienced soldiers? There's a contest between Schumacher and some random Joe from the street. Schumacher drives a Ford Mondeo Sports edition and the random Joe gets to drive a Ferrari. Who would you bet on? This somewhat simple example reflects the situation today. Ofcourse the Ukrainians have gotten more experience from this war but in every decisive battle they got their asses handed to them by the NAF. It doesn't matter if someone was "helping" them either. Ofcourse the Ukrainians have gotten more experience from this war but in every decisive battle they got their asses handed to them by the NAF. It doesn't matter if someone was "helping" the NAF either. If things flare up, the same very experienced gentlemen who are not involved officially, will do their work again. Later we'll be watching videos of NAF escorting captured VSU soldiers and discussing how the hell the Ukrainian command was so incompetent in allowing yet another cauldron in [enter name of city in here]

PapaDragon wrote:

Khepesh wrote:.............................................
No, not MSM but news per se, here, VK, blogs, anywhere, as these attacks are everyday and become "normal" and to report every round fired is now pointless. I am about how a succesful ukrops attack that takes ground will be presented. The continous artillery bombardment is ignored, partly by some because it is "inconvenient", but primarily because no ground changes hands, and that is the more important part of Minsk, so the fiction that Minsk holds can be continued. However, if ground were to be taken, and I mean more than a few hundred meters here or there, for instance a ukrops advance deep into Petrovsky, and they are certainly trying, then this would be a very significant and obvious break of Minsk to all who are aware of the reality of what happens, [western MSM are irellevant] and could not be hidden by the excuses used to ignore the artillery bombardment. What will be said about such an event? will it be presented as what it really would be, a casus beli for DNR to act, or will heads remain up ass in this macabre micawberism.

What happens when ISIS slaughters people in ME without moving the frontline? Nothing...

What happens when ISIS moves the frontline in ME and kills less people than usual? All hell breaks loose.

When UAF does move the frontline you can expect NAF to push back and media and blogosphere to notice it. In the meantime it's business as usual.


More importantly, and I already asked this with no answer, is NAF is getting ready for what comes next?
Ukrops are piling up men and gear. What are NAF doing preparations-wise? They say they want to fight and blame their own patrons for no letting them.  
I do hope it is not just words and that they really are ready because it is going to be a slaughter-fest when it gets serious again.

Is new hardware being delivered? Are troops getting ready? Any new gear?

Preparations are made. My wife talked to our son this afternoon and he is confident and in good spirits. NAF is under restrictions and are in essence on the defensive at this time and according to our son they know this and understand why. That doesn't mean they like the restrictions, it simply means they understand. The orcs have the advantage of going on the attack and can concentrate their forces when and where they want. NAF has to defend everywhere. Expect initial breakthroughs when the attacks start and expect heavy losses for our men manning the lines as they take the shock of the first attacks at the Schwerpunkte, which will be very strong. I have confidence in the command structure of NAF. In the end we will have victory and this time when Mutti and Golland come running to Mockba or Minsk I think, and hope, they will get short shrift.

franco wrote:More importantly, and I already asked this with no answer, is NAF is getting ready for what comes next?
Ukrops are piling up men and gear. What are NAF doing preparations-wise? They say they want to fight and blame their own patrons for no letting them. Suspect
I do hope it is not just words and that they really are ready because it is going to be a slaughter-fest when it gets serious again.

Is new hardware being delivered? Are troops getting ready? Any new gear?

Training is going on nonstop. Units have been organized into a regular Army and a Reserve Force of 35-40,000 has been recruited,trained and equipped to back up the 35,000 full time Regulars.

Whose training is nonstop? Maidan's or NAF's?

Khepesh wrote:Yesterday Basurin reported columns of ukrops Grad and SP artillery moving from direction of Zaporozhia to Kurakhovo, just a little west from Marinka. Now it seems significant activity at Marinka with ukrops said to try to break thro again. Okay, so this sort of thing is happening day after day and hardly seems news, but the question is what happens if VSN at some point fail to hold the front at Marinka? is that a definitive break of Minsk that cannot be ignored any longer? Also, what if these attacks, for about three days now near Krasny Partizan cause VSN to fall back, which would cause severe problems with swift easy road access to Gorlovka, would that also be a clear break of Minsk. This all hangs on a very thin thread now and more and more people, at the front as well as commentators, are beginning to say "imminent".

No, nobody from people I speak everyday really knows anything about Minsk and nobody cares about its violations. Ceasefire is in TV and newspapers explained as the success of diplomatic skills of president Poroshenko, who managed to stop the fighting and killing of innocent civilians on large scale but that rebels are still shelling. There is no way that any major violation of Minsk from Kiev would be recognized at all. TV would just say that government successfully stopped rebels attack and gained more ground and viewers would happily go to sleep, because they have to wake up early morning and go to work. Really there is scary little of people who are truly interested about events in Ukraine and making some effort to search their own info via Internet. Majority of people doesn't even question official mass media, they simply believe what they are told.

Novorussian army have constant intensive training as well as repairing captured equipment to fill combat units with new tanks and guns. They have very competent and experienced commanders and leaders, many of them have military education, so they are in no need for foreign instructors. Many Novorussian officers are Afghan veterans and after a year of combat on the front, they have enough experiences and skills to do their job.

PapaDragon wrote:

Khepesh wrote:.............................................
No, not MSM but news per se, here, VK, blogs, anywhere, as these attacks are everyday and become "normal" and to report every round fired is now pointless. I am about how a succesful ukrops attack that takes ground will be presented. The continous artillery bombardment is ignored, partly by some because it is "inconvenient", but primarily because no ground changes hands, and that is the more important part of Minsk, so the fiction that Minsk holds can be continued. However, if ground were to be taken, and I mean more than a few hundred meters here or there, for instance a ukrops advance deep into Petrovsky, and they are certainly trying, then this would be a very significant and obvious break of Minsk to all who are aware of the reality of what happens, [western MSM are irellevant] and could not be hidden by the excuses used to ignore the artillery bombardment. What will be said about such an event? will it be presented as what it really would be, a casus beli for DNR to act, or will heads remain up ass in this macabre micawberism.

What happens when ISIS slaughters people in ME without moving the frontline? Nothing...

What happens when ISIS moves the frontline in ME and kills less people than usual? All hell breaks loose.

When UAF does move the frontline you can expect NAF to push back and media and blogosphere to notice it. In the meantime it's business as usual.


More importantly, and I already asked this with no answer, is NAF is getting ready for what comes next?
Ukrops are piling up men and gear. What are NAF doing preparations-wise? They say they want to fight and blame their own patrons for no letting them.  
I do hope it is not just words and that they really are ready because it is going to be a slaughter-fest when it gets serious again.

Is new hardware being delivered? Are troops getting ready? Any new gear?

Shit, I just spent a long time writing a very detailed reply but had forgotten to click "remember me" and got timed out when I clicked to send message

Anyway, I see some of your questions are already answered so without writing another long reply I will simply say this. We disagree about when ukrops should be dealt with, I want it sooner, you want it when Kiev is on it's last legs or even collapsed. I do not see Kiev collapsing in a reasonable time frame and say that waiting now for this will be too much. I do not expect an assault even with the limited objective of pushing back ukrops artillery to take place today, tomorrow or next week. I would like it too, but know it is not going to happen. However, in a month or so then yes, and while it is still a long time to wait and more lives will be lost, it will not be this vague time in the misty future. My position on this is not going to change...

As for the questions.. I will simply add that Zacharchenko's blustering about "every army needs to rest", and complaints only at this time about communications equipment, and a sudden flurry of videos showing training exercises, is almost an admition that everything is as ready as possible and that he is simply stalling and putting off questions. Between Debaltsevo and now, VSN have had more time to prepare for battle than Red Army did before "Bagration".

I think NAF will not consider any offensive until Zackarchenko's leg is no longer broken, if ever. No offensive can possibly be led by a cripple.

Another possibility is NAF did launch its planned offensive on June 3 at Marinka but the offensive was foiled or NAF did not expect such strong resistance from Maidan. That would have been sort of like Syrian insurgents' failed Daraa offensive just now.

[quote="Khepesh"]
Shit, I just spent a long time writing a very detailed reply but had forgotten to click "remember me" and got timed out when I clicked to send message

Anyway, I see some of your questions are already answered so without writing another long reply I will simply say this. We disagree about when ukrops should be dealt with, I want it sooner, you want it when Kiev is on it's last legs or even collapsed. I do not see Kiev collapsing in a reasonable time frame and say that waiting now for this will be too much. I do not expect an assault even with the limited objective of pushing back ukrops artillery to take place today, tomorrow or next week. I would like it too, but know it is not going to happen. However, in a month or so then yes, and while it is still a long time to wait and more lives will be lost, it will not be this vague time in the misty future. My position on this is not going to change...

As for the questions.. I will simply add that Zacharchenko's blustering about "every army needs to rest", and complaints only at this time about communications equipment, and a sudden flurry of videos showing training exercises, is almost an admition that everything is as ready as possible and that he is simply stalling and putting off questions. Between Debaltsevo and now, VSN have had more time to prepare for battle than Red Army did before "Bagration". [/quote

I want it yesterday, last week, last month. Every grandfather, every grandmother, every mother, every father, every child killed by the bombardments is a tragedy. Every one of our soldiers who dies in this sitzkrieg is a tragedy. Every hospital, every school, every house, every flat, every electric station, every gaz facility, every magazine destroyed in the bombardments is a tragedy.

However, I also understand that it is VVP who is calling the shots and I understand that he is privy to much more information than we have. I trust him. So far in this war, this assault on Mat Rossiya, VVP has shown that he is the premier statesman of the world. When the time comes I have no doubts he will drop the leash and let NAF have at the ukes but he will do it at a time and place of his choosing and he will inflict the maximum damage to the ukes at the minimum cost to our boys. At this time, we can do nothing but wait for the order to attack.

Basurin reports only 13 Maidan attacks yesterday. Looks like Maidan is finally running out of ammo

Maidan media reporting training of Ukraine's snipers, the country's deadliest soldiers. What's interesting is that even though Maidan has bought large numbers of Barrett large caliber sniper rifles from the US, Maidan is not showing them on TV for secrecy reasons.




Maidan media reports more than 900,000 Ukrainians have left Maidan.

PapaDragon wrote:

Khepesh wrote:........................
Anyway, I see some of your questions are already answered so without writing another long reply I will simply say this. We disagree about when ukrops should be dealt with, I want it sooner, you want it when Kiev is on it's last legs or even collapsed. I do not see Kiev collapsing in a reasonable time frame and say that waiting now for this will be too much. I do not expect an assault even with the limited objective of pushing back ukrops artillery to take place today, tomorrow or next week. I would like it too, but know it is not going to happen. However, in a month or so then yes, and while it is still a long time to wait and more lives will be lost, it will not be this vague time in the misty future. My position on this is not going to change...

As for the questions.. I will simply add that Zacharchenko's blustering about "every army needs to rest", and complaints only at this time about communications equipment, and a sudden flurry of videos showing training exercises, is almost an admition that everything is as ready as possible and that he is simply stalling and putting off questions. Between Debaltsevo and now, VSN have had more time to prepare for battle than Red Army did before "Bagration".

We do not disagree on when ukrops should be dealt with, trust me I want them all incinerated ASAP. We just disagree on when ukrops could be death with with greatest results.

What ukrops do now is nothing new, I have seen this strategy used more than once in the Balkans in coordination with NATO back in the 90's.
What Russia does now is simply keeping NAF from making same mistakes we made back then.

NAF is not Red Army (I do wish they were...) and any failed attack could prove to be existential disaster for Novorossia.
Every lost life is a tragedy, but unfortunately this is a case of choosing lesser of several very nasty evils.

[/quote]

A point to make is, both sides in this conflict is not savage like the two sides in Syria. In Syria they kill by the hundreds of thousands. In this conflict there is hardly any fighting at all, it is much more civilized.

Does anyone by chance happen to have at hand a news article about if a Nationalist was President of Russia, we (the USA) would probably already been nuked before now, and that President Putin is very restrained??? It was in English.

..thanks in advance if anyone does...

Nato play the gm

I hope never nuke

JohninMK wrote:From the 'you couldn't make it up' department. Lets go back to the 1500s guys!

KYIV, June 27 /Ukrinform/. President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko states that decentralization is one of the most important reforms that he promised to hold and thanks to which Ukraine will get vaccinated against totalitarianism. The Head of State said this at a meeting of the Constitutional Commission, an Ukrinform correspondent reports.
"Decentralization will become powerful vaccination against totalitarianism. This is a correct mechanism of democratization," the President said. He recalled that the Magdeburg Law, due to which the Ukrainian cities were completely controlled by citizens, came immediately after its introduction in Europe. In particular, Lviv received the self government in 1356, while Kyiv got it in 1494. "Decentralization is our way back to Europe," Poroshenko summed up.

Yeah, having local fiefs is just so democratic. What a maggot.

One would think that Ukraine has been living in a totalitarian hell hole since 1991. When I look at Ukraine I see violent, bitter losers who need
to find someone to blame for all their failures. They will totally reject reality in order to pursue this feel good ego boosting. Ukraine is a
pathetic failed state with this sort of mentality. No amount of NATO money will fix it. These losers need to fix their brains first.